Guild Wars 2

after the patch skills on my pg will be resetted or not?

After the patch, you’ll gain hero points based on your level (lv 80 = 400 HPs) and the skill challenges you have completed in the map. You’ll have to spend HPs to unlock all your skills and traits again.

Yes the skills on your character will be reset when the trait revamp hits.

Why? I understand the Traits being reset, but why the Skills?

Ardid.7203:

Why? I understand the Traits being reset, but why the Skills?

Skills and Traits are both now earned with the core reward tracks.

Keep in mind that a level 80 player with about 65 skill challenges completed will have hero points enough to unlock everything right after the update.

Gibson.4036:

Ardid.7203:

Why? I understand the Traits being reset, but why the Skills?

Skills and Traits are both now earned with the core mastery tracks.

The mastery system and traits/skills do not have anything to do with eachother. But the new trait unlock system does have everything to do with the new skill unlock system.

Diovid.9506:

Gibson.4036:

Ardid.7203:

Why? I understand the Traits being reset, but why the Skills?

Skills and Traits are both now earned with the core mastery tracks.

The mastery system and traits/skills do not have anything to do with eachother. But the new trait unlock system does have everything to do with the new skill unlock system.

Sorry, miswrote. I meant “reward”, not “mastery”. Will go back and fix.

The point is that you use hero challenges to unlock both along progression tracks within the same system. So skills and traits need to be reset.

that’s horrible… i dont wanna do the skill challenge with 9 characters….
where is the sense to force player already know the game to go around the map to do useless and boring stuff again?!
i hope anet will change their mind

Lian Olsam.9541:

that’s horrible… i dont wanna do the skill challenge with 9 characters….
where is the sense to force player already know the game to go around the map to do useless and boring stuff again?!
i hope anet will change their mind

You’ll have 400 points just from being level 80. They’ve said 465 will completely unlock the core skills and traits. And you’ll get the hero points from any skill hero challenges you’ve already done.

Not that I’m defending the change. It sucked to have to go back on several alts that had access to every trait and get them up to 65 skill challenges just to keep them where they are currently.

You don’t have to do the challenges again. The game will credit you for the ones you have done. I think they will be converted to hero points which you redistribute however you wish.

Ack … I am running around getting points to unlock the rest of the skills. Before they said only traits would change so everyone was putting their points into skills.

If you’ve done them on all 9 you’ll be all set.

I wouldnt worry to much it say “next patch” might as well read “some day”.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

You don’t have to do the challenges again. The game will credit you for the ones you have done. I think they will be converted to hero points which you redistribute however you wish.

Thats not the point.

Some of us who are level 80 (400HP)
Didnt earn the rest (65HP) through hero challenges. We earned them through other means of gameplay, and it seem that reward will be taken away from us for nothing and setting up back at a disadvantage to those who did map completions.

The thread’s been inactive for a couple of weeks but there was a long and heartfelt discussion on that very point, Knighthonor.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Hero-Points-old-characters-breach-of-trust/first

And the information that skill challenges would be needed has been out there since before the SW Portal farm began. It shouldn’t be a surprise at this point. There’s been ample time to go and work on gathering 65 challenges. It may not be entirely fair or exactly how some people want to spend their game time, true. But MMOs do change, systems do change, and there’s often an adjustment period.

Was it fair to horse and buggy manufacturers that the automobile stole their clients and they had to swap over to car chassis production to stay competitive?

Donari.5237:

The thread’s been inactive for a couple of weeks but there was a long and heartfelt discussion on that very point, Knighthonor.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Hero-Points-old-characters-breach-of-trust/first

And the information that skill challenges would be needed has been out there since before the SW Portal farm began. It shouldn’t be a surprise at this point. There’s been ample time to go and work on gathering 65 challenges. It may not be entirely fair or exactly how some people want to spend their game time, true. But MMOs do change, systems do change, and there’s often an adjustment period.

Was it fair to horse and buggy manufacturers that the automobile stole their clients and they had to swap over to car chassis production to stay competitive?

Thats a bad anology because we are not competitors of GW2, we are consumers like the world completionist.

We were promised multiple ways to progress. Setting up progression this way by forcing us to collect hero missions as the only way to progress is no different from the early complaints this community had regarding Endgame Raid progression in othet games.

Not only is this a breach in Anet’s trust, but this sets a large part of their consumers at a disadvantage.

Donari.5237:

Was it fair to horse and buggy manufacturers that the automobile stole their clients and they had to swap over to car chassis production to stay competitive?

Not sure how real life tech advances apply. It’s a game. The vast majority of games are designed around the concept of being fair.

But that’s all moot. Philosophical arguments are just that, and what really matters is how far ArenaNet can undermine player confidence and still maintain an active player base willing to spend money.

Each time they reset progess and require it to be earned again, they erode player trust. If players get to the point where they feel their progress might be lost at the whim of the game designers, they lose motivation to play and pay.

I’d rather have a short-term disadvantage that leads to long-term gains, myself. The complaints I’m seeing are “I’ll have to go do some boring things to get back to max unlock,” not “the new things I get with max unlock are terrible.” Some are complaining about the latter, but not combining it with complaints about the skill challenge requirement.

This isn’t a progress reset, not exactly. You don’t have to repeat the exact same things to get back to the exact same place, you have to do some different things to get to a new place. Future leveling and gaining of traits and skills will be so much nicer than they’ve been under the NPE/world event trait unlock system that it boggles me people would rather keep the current system rather than invest a little sliver of time in stepping onto the new path.

Donari.5237:

This isn’t a progress reset, not exactly. You don’t have to repeat the exact same things to get back to the exact same place, you have to do some different things to get to a new place. Future leveling and gaining of traits and skills will be so much nicer than they’ve been under the NPE/world event trait unlock system that it boggles me people would rather keep the current system rather than invest a little sliver of time in stepping onto the new path.

Ok so lets play this by your games.

Lets add 65 addional SPvP ranks, and an additional 65 WvW ranks along with the 65 Hero challenges to the requirements for unlocking all the skills and traits.

how would you like that?

Donari.5237:

You don’t have to repeat the exact same things to get back to the exact same place, you have to do some different things to get to a new place.

No, I had to go do something different than I originally did to get to the exact same place, complete unlock of core skills and traits.

Future leveling and gaining of traits and skills will be so much nicer than they’ve been under the NPE/world event trait unlock system that it boggles me people would rather keep the current system rather than invest a little sliver of time in stepping onto the new path.

I wouldn’t rather keep the current system. It’s terrible. I wouldn’t have minded keeping the original system, however. Nor would I have minded if they had offered some sort of grandfathering system.

I know, people have a lot of reasons why grandfathering is impossible. But it’s not impossible, it’s a choice on ArenaNet’s part. Yes, they want the new Hero Points to be a limited pool, and yes, grandfathering would mess with that. It’s still a choice to value their new limited pool idea over the trust of their players that we won’t have to go back and earn something we already have just because they decided to redesign.

No, I don’t believe I’m owed anything. I do, however, worry about the longevity of the game if player trust continues to be undermined.

Knighthonor.4061:

Donari.5237:

This isn’t a progress reset, not exactly. You don’t have to repeat the exact same things to get back to the exact same place, you have to do some different things to get to a new place. Future leveling and gaining of traits and skills will be so much nicer than they’ve been under the NPE/world event trait unlock system that it boggles me people would rather keep the current system rather than invest a little sliver of time in stepping onto the new path.

Ok so lets play this by your games.

Lets add 65 addional SPvP ranks, and an additional 65 WvW ranks along with the 65 Hero challenges to the requirements for unlocking all the skills and traits.

how would you like that?

Well since sPvP doesn’t matter in the trait/skill unlock in the first place I’ll ignore that. (everything is unlocked there without you doing anything)

but if I had to go out and get 65WvW ranks (which are account unlock based not character based so you’d have to do that once period, not per character). So basically all that makes sense for your scenario is doing skill challenges…Then I go and do 65 more skill challenges on each character…and I’d just do it because the new system going forward is going to be better. I would rather do a few skill challenges than map the entirety of Lornar’s Pass for a single adept trait.

If you’re going to play on an alt in any sort of PvE environment you’re going to be running thru maps to get to where ever you’re going. Why not do skill points on the way? Unless you’re using teleport to friend stones to get to the silverwastes (for example) you’re going to be running thru several maps to get there. No one is telling you that you must do 100% map completion.

Besides, if you want elite specializations I’m betting you’ll have to have all the core unlocked in the first place before you can start on elites and you’ll need more points to get them as well.

I wouldn’t. Though the sPvP part is moot since sPvPers get the unlocks without doing the skill challenges.

I’m pretty sure the WvWers wouldn’t want a lot of random PvEr’s coming in to screw up the WvW fights just to get their points. Take a look at the multitude of threads full of flames back when WvW was needed for world completion.

Also, you’re in effect saying “let’s triple what you have to do for the points just so everyone has to do something they don’t like.” Your point would be better made if you limited it to WvW ranks instead of skill challenges. But then I’d have to ask: How long does it take to get a WvW rank? I can get a skill challenge inside a minute (if combat) or 10 seconds (if channeled/NPC dialogued) once I’m at the location.

It’s not like every PvEr has skill challenges unlocked as a side effect of regular play. I’ve said it in other threads, most of my alts had maybe 40 done, if that, as after doing world completion twice I stopped dealing with zone completion to advance. I had to go do around 60 more on each of those, because I want to have enough to cover Elites. And if 35 challenges doesn’t unlock an Elite? I’ll have to go bump up 12 alts even more.

And it will still be so much freaking easier than it’s been.

" But then I’d have to ask: How long does it take to get a WvW rank? "

Only a few seconds at a Laurel vendor. But then again WvW ranks are account wide. Doing skill challenges are per-character, so that part doesn’t make sense in the scheme of unlocking traits/skills as part of a character’s personal progression.

Knighthonor.4061:

Donari.5237:

This isn’t a progress reset, not exactly. You don’t have to repeat the exact same things to get back to the exact same place, you have to do some different things to get to a new place. Future leveling and gaining of traits and skills will be so much nicer than they’ve been under the NPE/world event trait unlock system that it boggles me people would rather keep the current system rather than invest a little sliver of time in stepping onto the new path.

Ok so lets play this by your games.

Lets add 65 addional SPvP ranks, and an additional 65 WvW ranks along with the 65 Hero challenges to the requirements for unlocking all the skills and traits.

how would you like that?

I think you need to remove the “additional” requirement since it counts past progress. Also, with the effort, it would be more like “have played 65 sPvP matches total on your account ever” and “have reached rank 65 in WvW”.

However, there is a valid point that people who don’t want to do PvE shouldn’t have to do that if they just want to play sPvP or WvW. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought sPvP lets you use skills/traits you haven’t unlocked in PvE (or is that only equipment?). It does seem to leave WvW players out, unless there are enough Hero Challenges on the old + new maps. If they did add enough Hero Challenges to WvW, I’d be fine with that. Alternately, I’d be fine if ranks in WvW gave Hero Points (though there’s the character vs account difference, so that wouldn’t work precisely).

ekarat.1085:

Knighthonor.4061:

Donari.5237:

This isn’t a progress reset, not exactly. You don’t have to repeat the exact same things to get back to the exact same place, you have to do some different things to get to a new place. Future leveling and gaining of traits and skills will be so much nicer than they’ve been under the NPE/world event trait unlock system that it boggles me people would rather keep the current system rather than invest a little sliver of time in stepping onto the new path.

Ok so lets play this by your games.

Lets add 65 addional SPvP ranks, and an additional 65 WvW ranks along with the 65 Hero challenges to the requirements for unlocking all the skills and traits.

how would you like that?

I think you need to remove the “additional” requirement since it counts past progress. Also, with the effort, it would be more like “have played 65 sPvP matches total on your account ever” and “have reached rank 65 in WvW”.

However, there is a valid point that people who don’t want to do PvE shouldn’t have to do that if they just want to play sPvP or WvW. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought sPvP lets you use skills/traits you haven’t unlocked in PvE (or is that only equipment?). It does seem to leave WvW players out, unless there are enough Hero Challenges on the old + new maps. If they did add enough Hero Challenges to WvW, I’d be fine with that. Alternately, I’d be fine if ranks in WvW gave Hero Points (though there’s the character vs account difference, so that wouldn’t work precisely).

It doesnt. Pop into the mist and note the trait unlock vendor. What you believe that person could be there for?

khani.4786:

" But then I’d have to ask: How long does it take to get a WvW rank? "

Only a few seconds at a Laurel vendor. But then again WvW ranks are account wide. Doing skill challenges are per-character, so that part doesn’t make sense in the scheme of unlocking traits/skills as part of a character’s personal progression.

SPvP ranks are account wide as well, but are you willing to grind them out of you not into SPvP, just to get back to where you currently are?

Yes or no?

Lian Olsam.9541:

that’s horrible… i dont wanna do the skill challenge with 9 characters….
where is the sense to force player already know the game to go around the map to do useless and boring stuff again?!
i hope anet will change their mind

Its going to get even better once HoT comes out. Since based off what was said about the Elite Spec during the Core Spec reveal live stream you are going to need hero points to unlock your elite specs. My best estimate is ~100 hero points (5 Hero points per skill/trait x 12 traits/6 skills/2 skins).

So while you may have an argument about the skill reset taking away progress being unfair you are still going to have to grind the Skill challenges on all your characters.

Knighthonor.4061:

ekarat.1085:

Knighthonor.4061:

Donari.5237:

This isn’t a progress reset, not exactly. You don’t have to repeat the exact same things to get back to the exact same place, you have to do some different things to get to a new place. Future leveling and gaining of traits and skills will be so much nicer than they’ve been under the NPE/world event trait unlock system that it boggles me people would rather keep the current system rather than invest a little sliver of time in stepping onto the new path.

Ok so lets play this by your games.

Lets add 65 addional SPvP ranks, and an additional 65 WvW ranks along with the 65 Hero challenges to the requirements for unlocking all the skills and traits.

how would you like that?

I think you need to remove the “additional” requirement since it counts past progress. Also, with the effort, it would be more like “have played 65 sPvP matches total on your account ever” and “have reached rank 65 in WvW”.

However, there is a valid point that people who don’t want to do PvE shouldn’t have to do that if they just want to play sPvP or WvW. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought sPvP lets you use skills/traits you haven’t unlocked in PvE (or is that only equipment?). It does seem to leave WvW players out, unless there are enough Hero Challenges on the old + new maps. If they did add enough Hero Challenges to WvW, I’d be fine with that. Alternately, I’d be fine if ranks in WvW gave Hero Points (though there’s the character vs account difference, so that wouldn’t work precisely).

It doesnt. Pop into the mist and note the trait unlock vendor. What you believe that person could be there for?

So, does sPvP let you use skills but not traits that you haven’t unlocked? (I genuinely don’t remember, hence my hedging.) Since the the skill and trait unlock systems are becoming the same system, I would reasonably guess that locked traits would become useable in sPvP after the patch — also, that’s presumably why others on this thread say sPvP isn’t an issue.

Anyway, that’s good to know (and I did say to correct me if I’m wrong), but it doesn’t actually change my point — WvW people shouldn’t need to play PvE to unlock their skills/traits, though I would not consider it unreasonable if they could do everything they needed to in WvW instead of PvE.

Ingros.7801:

Lian Olsam.9541:

that’s horrible… i dont wanna do the skill challenge with 9 characters….
where is the sense to force player already know the game to go around the map to do useless and boring stuff again?!
i hope anet will change their mind

Its going to get even better once HoT comes out. Since based off what was said about the Elite Spec during the Core Spec reveal live stream you are going to need hero points to unlock your elite specs. My best estimate is ~100 hero points (5 Hero points per skill/trait x 12 traits/6 skills/2 skins).

So while you may have an argument about the skill reset taking away progress being unfair you are still going to have to grind the Skill challenges on all your characters.

Just a quick check — do we know for certain that each Skill/Hero Challenge will give only 1 Hero Point? You have a valid point, which is why I suspect ~165 sounds like too many, unless they are a lot more abundant in HoT, there are more ways of getting them, or you get more than 1 Hero Point per Challenge.

ekarat.1085:

Just a quick check — do we know for certain that each Skill/Hero Challenge will give only 1 Hero Point? You have a valid point, which is why I suspect ~165 sounds like too many, unless they are a lot more abundant in HoT, there are more ways of getting them, or you get more than 1 Hero Point per Challenge.

I’ve been wondering about the whole 100 number myself.

They’ve said they want to add more elite specializations. We only have about 190 skill challenges in the entire game at the moment. If it takes 165 to get all the core unlocked plus the first elite, there would have to be a huge increase in the number of skill challenges per zone to make future elite specializations possible.

SPvP will not have to do any unlocking, per

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/specializations-part-one-a-primer/

“In addition to these changes, the need to unlock skills and traits will be removed from Player vs. Player entirely, and you’ll automatically have all the specializations available to you whenever you’re in PvP.”

Donari.5237:

SPvP will not have to do any unlocking, per

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/specializations-part-one-a-primer/

“In addition to these changes, the need to unlock skills and traits will be removed from Player vs. Player entirely, and you’ll automatically have all the specializations available to you whenever you’re in PvP.”

Yes but, you can play hours of PvP and not accomplish anything. Its currently why Tomes of Knowledge exist in PvP, I have stacks of them. Level has no concern in PvP, yet its a way for PvP exclusive players to insta level toons. And currently with scrolls and tomes I get all traits, skills, and so on if I decide to jump over to WvW.

Youre talking to a guy who would fail in a dungeon speed run as I have no clue what happens in PvE at the moment. Dont care to either. I already bypass PvE exclusive content such as legendary weapons and dont own a single one of them. I buy my mats for Ascended for WvW and get plenty of Laurels for trinkets. With me being the occasional dead weight in guild missions for trinkets because I dont know a single one of them.

I would love it if I didnt have to do any of the PvE content at all for any reason what so ever.

I did the main story once, Im done with it. Still havent done map completion and even though Ive tried Its like a horrible boring grind to me. So I just gave up on that because I dont care.

Honestly I think this game needs exclusive rewards in PvP game modes, including legendary weapons and high level armor skins.

With specific weapons and gear requiring high level competitive AP challenges accomplished. IE WvW avenger. Something that most causal players in WvW and PvP wouldnt get very easily unless they spent some real time in there. Not vice versa where if any PvP game mode player wants something even in the core of their toons they need to go play PvE.

nightblood.7910:

…..

Honestly I think this game needs exclusive rewards in PvP game modes, including legendary weapons and high level armor skins.

there was tournament called “Tournament of Legends”. they rewarded the winner legendary weapons. you didn’t win ?

My first question stand.

If I earned a number of skills with skill scrolls and NOT with “skill/hero challenges”, what is the NEED to take those skills from me? They can perfectly leave the skills we already have alone, and just reset the traits.

I have a char at 50 with all the skills unlocked and almost no skill challenges done, that I don’t want to use right now, but I want to use after HoT is released. I really think it IS MY RIGHT to go back to that character later and see it keep all the skills I already earned ready for me to use.

Ardid.7203:

My first question stand.

If I earned a number of skills with skill scrolls and NOT with “skill/hero challenges”, what is the NEED to take those skills from me? They can perfectly leave the skills we already have alone, and just reset the traits.

I have a char at 50 with all the skills unlocked and almost no skill challenges done, that I don’t want to use right now, but I want to use after HoT is released. I really think it IS MY RIGHT to go back to that character later and see it keep all the skills I already earned ready for me to use.

First of all, you don’t have any “rights”. The ToS has language in it that you technically don’t own anything aside from your personal information. You signed that to play.

The reason they can’t leave skills unlocked is because of how they are changing it. You need to unlock skills of the same type in sequence to get to the higher-level skills. Say you only have the Elite skill unlocked for a particular type of skills, say traps, but no other traps unlocked. The new system is made so that you had to get the other traps first, like a progression system, so that you are “specialized” in traps, and your reward is getting the best one.

All signs currently point to ArenaNet not caring whether they erode player trust by setting back progress and requiring that we earn it over again.

History also shows that they are not firmly committed to their early statement that WvWers could completely progress their characters without leaving WvW. Some design choices over the last three years have taken steps in that direction, others have taken steps away.

Gibson.4036:

All signs currently point to ArenaNet not caring whether they erode player trust by setting back progress and requiring that we earn it over again.

History also shows that they are not firmly committed to their early statement that WvWers could completely progress their characters without leaving WvW. Some design choices over the last three years have taken steps in that direction, others have taken steps away.

I think they do care, and I am not ready to give up hope that they will have a solution for WvWers other than “get Hero Points in PvE”.

ekarat.1085:

Gibson.4036:

All signs currently point to ArenaNet not caring whether they erode player trust by setting back progress and requiring that we earn it over again.

History also shows that they are not firmly committed to their early statement that WvWers could completely progress their characters without leaving WvW. Some design choices over the last three years have taken steps in that direction, others have taken steps away.

I think they do care, and I am not ready to give up hope that they will have a solution for WvWers other than “get Hero Points in PvE”.

I’m hoping they have the traits and skills appear in WvW like they do in PvP, and I think that might be the only way to salve the issue: Keep Hero Points out of WvW.

There are plenty of people that only WvW just as there are plenty of people who only PvP, so why have one game mode where everybody gets everything unlocked (for fairness) and another where nobody does unless they do a completely different game mode?

This is another bad decision by Anet. Reminds me of the NPE/Trait change…

ekarat.1085:

I think they do care, and I am not ready to give up hope that they will have a solution for WvWers other than “get Hero Points in PvE”.

Okay, historically, that might be true. I’d expect six months to a year before there is a way for WvWers to get Hero Points in WvW, though.

They tend to introduce things with a narrow way of getting them, then quite a while later start opening up other options. Ascended gear has followed this pattern on several levels. But it usually starts with a “We’re looking into other options” shortly after launch of the new thing, followed by a long, silent development process, before something actually ends up in game.

There have been so many threads about this exact topic… Why not just read them? Also, I’m pretty sure Anet isn’t mentally disabled and they know people already have the skills we use. I have 5 level 80s and im fine getting all their skills again if that means i get updates.

Resetted?! really OP?!