Guild Wars 2

currently you’re able to spend points in all the lines simultaneously, the most popular build using this would be medi guard with 0/1/6/1/6.

by forcing us to spend all our points in 3 lines only this will cut down build diversity and is imo not a good thing.

a response by a dev would be appreciated.

Also remember, that the trait lines are functioning inherently differently with changes to what each line does. It is too early to say how many builds we would lose, versus how many open up. Medi Guard could still work with 3 trait lines available. It is far too early to call builds broken.

Logged in to check if I understand this correctly, too. Those articles are so sneaky. If you blink for one sec, you would have totally missed the “HEY THERE’S A SIGNIFICANT POTENTIAL BUILD LOSS HERE!!!”

Could you guys please for once stop pretending you know more about this than the kittening devs do… They’re doing an AMA tomorrow to clarify questions, for kitten’s sake!

Regardless, the only way this can affect you adversely is if you refuse to adapt to the new system, as is the way of all nature. Get used to it.

I don’t think it’s a total disaster or gamebreaking, but it’s certainly stifling variation and flexibility. It’s a step in the wrong direction, in my opinion. We’re supposed to be getting more options in builds, not limiting them.

There are some traitlines with traits I consider vital in the adept and master tiers. Traitlines that I have no use or desire to go further into. Being able to spend those points going partially into another traitline is a huge part of the flexibility we have now. They won’t even be useful by giving additional stats under this new system.

There are also several characters where I forgo a master trait for a second minor, or even a grandmaster for a second master. From the screenshots in today’s posts, that looks to no longer be possible.

Andred.1087:

Could you guys please for once stop pretending you know more about this than the kittening devs do… They’re doing an AMA tomorrow to clarify questions, for kitten’s sake!

Regardless, the only way this can affect you adversely is if you refuse to adapt to the new system, as is the way of all nature. Get used to it.

We came in to check if we read and get the point of the articles in the same way. And we did. Nobody is pretending to know anything or refusing to do anything. Duh.

mrstealth.6701:

I don’t think it’s a total disaster or gamebreaking, but it’s certainly stifling variation and flexibility. It’s a step in the wrong direction, in my opinion. We’re supposed to be getting more options in builds, not limiting them.

There are some traitlines with traits I consider vital in the adept and master tiers. Traitlines that I have no use or desire to go further into. Being able to spend those points going partially into another traitline is a huge part of the flexibility we have now. They won’t even be useful by giving additional stats under this new system.

There are also several characters where I forgo a master trait for a second minor, or even a grandmaster for a second master. From the screenshots in today’s posts, that looks to no longer be possible.

+1

Andred.1087:

Regardless, the only way this can affect you adversely is if you refuse to adapt to the new system, as is the way of all nature. Get used to it.

It’s not really about adapting. We’ll do that. It’s not likely to make anything unplayble.

The issue I see is the limitation of variety. These changes are a massive reduction to the number of possible builds.

Lots of MMOs try to put you on rails for the sake of balance; generally I don’t see it as a good thing. It’s arguable that the similar approach they took with skills at launch (as opposed to the very open style of GW1) actually hurt the game. I don’t like the idea of being forced into exactly 3 specializations. What if I only want to be really good at one thing and spread the rest of my points out evenly, or what if I want to be a jack of all trades?

That said, this doesn’t seem all bad. There’s a lot of interesting stuff.

Look at it a bit different way.

What if at first we had just a trait pool, and no trait tiering? Then, if they happened to implement the current system, lots of you would cry, right? It’s just a change. But not the change for changes sake. It’s for quicker approach to build switching, balancment, etc.

There are pros and cons, like everywhere.

To anyone saying stuff about build reduction and so on..how many viable builds we have right now? Thats right.. Load of useless traits, weapon skills that makes no sense whatsoever. It might break some old builds but in the end we should be able to create many new more (just look at revenant traits, from these 3 lines alone i could go and craft few builds) unless they kitten up as usual. I gladly welcome this change either way

Scoobaniec.9561:

To anyone saying stuff about build reduction and so on..how many viable builds we have right now? Thats right.. Load of useless traits, weapon skills that makes no sense whatsoever.

Quite a few, I’d say. If you look beyond the small selection of meta builds, there are a lots of viable options.

As for useless traits, what about being forced into choosing potentially useless master/grandmaster traits just so you can get 1 useful adept trait? I’ll take the option of screwing up myself over having bad selections forced on me any day.

There isn’t really build diversity as it is, because in order to get to your grandmaster traits you have to spend 6 points in lines anyways. It’s very rare to actual spread your points across more than 3 lines anyways.

Yes the 3 lines reduce build diversity, but on the other hand separating stats from trait will give us more diversity.

Yes we gonna have less trait choice, but they will be more meaningful without all those useless trait.

We’ll see what will be the details, but even if i’m not a fan of some particular points the overall system seem better than the current one.

would be nice if we could at least choose the stat points, but as it seems they will just be put on armor instead which will again limit variety because i assume that power gear will have more power on it, and not vitality.

i’m not saying the trait rework is all bad but this just caught my eye and i would, as a game dev, not make the same decision and limit the traits (and also the stats).

mrstealth.6701:

I don’t think it’s a total disaster or gamebreaking, but it’s certainly stifling variation and flexibility. It’s a step in the wrong direction, in my opinion. We’re supposed to be getting more options in builds, not limiting them.

There are some traitlines with traits I consider vital in the adept and master tiers. Traitlines that I have no use or desire to go further into. Being able to spend those points going partially into another traitline is a huge part of the flexibility we have now. They won’t even be useful by giving additional stats under this new system.

There are also several characters where I forgo a master trait for a second minor, or even a grandmaster for a second master. From the screenshots in today’s posts, that looks to no longer be possible.

I feel like some of you just completely fail at reading comprehension. The existing traits will be changed and moved around. So that trait that you consider vital on the adept/master tier of a traitline you don’t actually want? May actually get moved into a traitline you want to max out.

Some of them will even disappear and their functionality become part of the skill’s normal functionality. Using the example from the article, necromancer wells. At the moment I need to take Focused Rituals for ground targeting, because otherwise I have to jump into the middle of the enemy hammer train to drop my wells and with a large enough enemy zerg, that’s a really bad thing to do. If that trait gets removed since it’s now become a normal part of the well line of skills, I can now use that slot for something else that I might find more useful.

Keep in mind you’ll be gaining access to another grandmaster trait (in exchange for basically one first level minor trait.) This could potentially open up new build options to counteract ones that may disappear as the result of the change.

Jekkt.6045:

would be nice if we could at least choose the stat points but as it seems they will just be put on armor instead which will again limit variety because i assume that power gear will have more power on it then, and not vitality.

i’m not saying the trait rework is all bad but this just caught my eye and i would, as a game dev, not make the same decision and limit the traits (and also the stats).

If you want vitality…the vitality gear will also be more powerful…

Crey.5263:

Jekkt.6045:

would be nice if we could at least choose the stat points but as it seems they will just be put on armor instead which will again limit variety because i assume that power gear will have more power on it then, and not vitality.

i’m not saying the trait rework is all bad but this just caught my eye and i would, as a game dev, not make the same decision and limit the traits (and also the stats).

If you want vitality…the vitality gear will also be more powerful…

right now when you play something like fresh air berserk ele you take the 4 points in water because of the +2k hitpoints, playing fresh air with vitality armor would not be what i want. especially in PvP where you have no armor to mix and match to begin with.

I’m not really seeing how specializations are going to limit build diversity.

They’ve stated that traits that effected skills (e.g. wells on necro being targeted instead of on the character) will just be automatically transferred onto the skills that the traits effect, so i’m positive this will also apply to the other classes. Meaning, you are essentially getting buffed with the option to choose more meaningful traits rather than “Oh man this makes my good skill slightly better”.

I can see the concern on how now you are forced to pick three lines and you can’t spend the odd point or so in another of those three, but how is that limiting diversity? If anything it makes it more diverse because now you have to be meaningful about which trait lines you pick. A majority of classes usually go into the same trait lines for every build but now if you are limited you won’t be able to hop between them. Yes, this limits where you are free to spend your points, but in no way does it limit diversity. If anything it promotes careful planning and creativity.

Best bet though? Wait until it comes out. Then judge.

Jekkt.6045:

Crey.5263:

Jekkt.6045:

would be nice if we could at least choose the stat points but as it seems they will just be put on armor instead which will again limit variety because i assume that power gear will have more power on it then, and not vitality.

i’m not saying the trait rework is all bad but this just caught my eye and i would, as a game dev, not make the same decision and limit the traits (and also the stats).

If you want vitality…the vitality gear will also be more powerful…

right now when you play something like fresh air berserk ele you take the 4 points in water because of the +2k hitpoints, playing fresh air with vitality armor would not be what i want. especially in PvP where you have no armor to mix and match to begin with.

I’m making an assumption here because I don’t actually know if this is true or not. But I thought trait lines currently don’t give stats anyway in sPvP? All stats come from amulets and whatnot?

For PvE and WvW, you don’t have to wear full sets of armor you know that right? If you mix zerk pieces with valkyrie pieces you’ll get less precision, but more vitality etc. Stat diversity is still perfectly possible. You will be getting more zerk stats from your zerk armor pieces, so switching some out for Valk or others can bring your overall stats to the same as what you currently have.

Crey.5263:

There isn’t really build diversity as it is, because in order to get to your grandmaster traits you have to spend 6 points in lines anyways. It’s very rare to actual spread your points across more than 3 lines anyways.

I’m looking at the current list of dungeon meta builds from metabattle, and most of them are either using 4 lines or other splits that don’t go fully into a line (6/5/3 or 6/4/4). The latter will be gaining points into their lines, not losing anything, but are these going to be useful options?

If a build is only going 4-5 points into a line, they are doing so because choosing lower tier traits from a different line are more useful/valuable than that line’s grandmaster traits. It’s going to a win for some, but I’ll bet there are just as many where the extra points we’re getting would be better spent spread out over more different lines.

A good number of these builds are also using two adept traits, putting one in the master tier slot. Another option that is no longer possible. In my opinion, this is the worst part of these changes.

Nate.3927:

Jekkt.6045:

Crey.5263:

Jekkt.6045:

would be nice if we could at least choose the stat points but as it seems they will just be put on armor instead which will again limit variety because i assume that power gear will have more power on it then, and not vitality.

i’m not saying the trait rework is all bad but this just caught my eye and i would, as a game dev, not make the same decision and limit the traits (and also the stats).

If you want vitality…the vitality gear will also be more powerful…

right now when you play something like fresh air berserk ele you take the 4 points in water because of the +2k hitpoints, playing fresh air with vitality armor would not be what i want. especially in PvP where you have no armor to mix and match to begin with.

I’m making an assumption here because I don’t actually know if this is true or not. But I thought trait lines currently don’t give stats anyway in sPvP? All stats come from amulets and whatnot?

For PvE and WvW, you don’t have to wear full sets of armor you know that right? If you mix zerk pieces with valkyrie pieces you’ll get less precision, but more vitality etc. Stat diversity is still perfectly possible. You will be getting more zerk stats from your zerk armor pieces, so switching some out for Valk or others can bring your overall stats to the same as what you currently have.

nope, traitlines give the same amount of stats in PvP as in PvE/WvW.

armor mixing is true for PvE/WvW but i have concerns for PvP. even though the berserk amulet gives vitality already i don’t think that they will put additional 200 points on it. with ele’s already low base health this isn’t such good news if it’s gonna turn out like this.
so let’s hope that arenanet will figure something out.

The new system will definitely reduce build diversity for the sake of better
class balancing.Just removing stats from trait lines and moving hem all to
the gear is huge step to this direction.A lot of middle ground hybrid builds
will be lost.

Nate.3927:

For PvE and WvW, you don’t have to wear full sets of armor you know that right? If you mix zerk pieces with valkyrie pieces you’ll get less precision, but more vitality etc. Stat diversity is still perfectly possible. You will be getting more zerk stats from your zerk armor pieces, so switching some out for Valk or others can bring your overall stats to the same as what you currently have.

That’s going to be a hard point to defend when ascended gear is what needs replaced. The risk of build nerfs is always there, but this is a big change across the board.

I like the idea of separating the stat points from traits, it’s just kind of late to be making that change.

I DO NOT support this either and I am a huge gw2 fan, i support the game a ton but this nononono JUST NO

I was excited fro specs but now we learn we don’t get to just have it we gotta gut one of our trait lines to get it?! WHAT!!!!!!!

Trait line flips to spec line and we get locked to 3 lines and if we want the new weapon and what not we gotta sack one of those lines to get it and potentially will hate everything else about the spec we had to eat into just to get a weapon -.-

I see so many people in-game sharing their builds and more often then not its more then 3 lines of spread, just cause a trait skill is grandmaster doesn’t always make it better. My own build as well as many others out there people have worked kitten consumed 4 lines, not all of which die hard dumping 6 into 2 lines.

Some people only go to 1 grandmaster and spread more out over the other lines. And don’t forget the lose of stat points, we already got too many “ZERK ONLY!!!” lfg posts and demands out there, moving stats off traits and onto gear will over inflate the fire of such demands.

Those of us who’ve been wanting too improve and expand on our builds with spec’s are now being shot in the face with a big fat NO as we are not only losing the power to spread points over 3 lines but now we are also being told we won’t be able to access specs period unless we gut one of our lines to do that as at all?!

My build is very effective and flexible because of how i spread my points and i’ve put a lot of work and love into it, arena please don’t do this!

anet claims they don’t wanna invalidate our work on our characters but builds are a major part of that and choke holding us into 3 lines is gonna kill more free form builds then people think, meta builds do tend to only use 6/6/2/0/0/ but that just means lots of them won’t be hit by the 3 line limitation but those of us who worked kitten careful point spreads are gonna get hit hard for this

People are saying they don’t want useless traits WELL WHAT DO YOU THINK A THREE LINE LIMITATION WILL DO, At least at 5 lines we could grab more traits we want, but odds are any moved traits won’t be where you want them and to top it off you will have to stomach eating into only 3 lines to get through traits you could easily hate having just to get 1 good one.

Look at the pics they gave us, sure they aren’t finalized but its a bad omen of things to come if it’s not changed! minor traits being the octagon shapes and between them are 3 blocks which according to the lines shows we will be choosing 1/3 per segment in those places unlike now where we could spend 6 in a line and pull all from the adept level because those traits worked for us.

Now stop and think again, not only will we have these limited choices in each of those 3 lines but we won’t be able to build as freely as we can now because 1 of those lines has to be sacrificed to access the special specialization which anet announced every professions gonna get PLUS according to these blogs traits will be extinct after hot release, and be known as SPECS ALSO that’s gonna confuse new players to an insane amount “uh I do have my spec, its fire magic!” NO ITS NOT THAT’S AN OLD TRAIT LINE ITS NOT YOUR SPECIALIZATION.

Sigh there’s my vent, but that’s fact, reduction of 5 lines to 3 is a huge limiter on builds, forcing use to choose from smaller pools of powers And whats more we won’t be able to use specializations THE REAL ONES without throwing away one of those lines just to get a new weapon or utility’s heals or elites, is gonna force us to submit to traits we might very well not want too use just to get them. Yes some traits will be merged and such but who’s to say it will be merges you want? based on what they showed us some will be reasonable some will be WHAT moments.

Many of us adapt our builds almost on a daily bases but we have the power to spend in wild and fun ways, 3 lines won’t give us that and I suspect if this lands people will not only demand zerk builds but specific ‘spec’ builds what with the idiotic confusion of flipping trait to specialization when specs the real ones are what we are getting in hot.

So sorry for shouting guys and sorry this post is huge but I needed to vent this announcement frustration and things had to be pointed out.

I’m quite a fan of this change, more traits to unlock but more specialized choices. +1000 for me

“And don’t forget the lose of stat points, we already got too many “ZERK ONLY!!!” lfg posts and demands out there, moving stats off traits and onto gear will over inflate the fire of such demands.”

I disagree, some of those players will see a drop in some of their other stats since they had depended on their trait lines to provide a bump in them rather than their gear. Now it might be more advantageous to have more diverse gear. That’s just my thought though.

I also disagree that this will limit build diversity, but I will concede that it will change what types of builds are available. So a build type that you’ve been running for a while will no longer be possible, but new build types will be appearing as a result. I do realize this will be tough for people that really like their builds and want to keep them, but there may be other builds that you will enjoy playing more if given the chance. That’s the hope at least.

The only thing you can say for certain is that buying GW2 expansion will be pretty much mandatory for all pvp players and wvw players.

Other than that, I see a lot of builds being destroyed (many use more than 3 trait lines, and by my reading the elite line takes up one of those too, so you’re left with a choice of two and an elite line?).

However, there is potential for a lot of new builds too and no doubt a new meta will emerge after a few months.

Notsoperky.4291:

The only thing you can say for certain is that buying GW2 expansion will be pretty much mandatory for all pvp players and wvw players.

Other than that, I see a lot of builds being destroyed (many use more than 3 trait lines, and by my reading the elite line takes up one of those too, so you’re left with a choice of two and an elite line?).

However, there is potential for a lot of new builds too and no doubt a new meta will emerge after a few months.

I don’t think HoT will be mandatory right off the bat, but eventually it will be as they have said they plan to continue to add new Elite Specializations to each class and HoT is what unlocks the use of Elite Specializations. If you didn’t have it you’d eventually be missing out on a good number of build options. At first though, you’d be missing out on one specialized trait line, which would be required for meta play.

@Galeskyring. They aren’t taking a trait line away from you…they are giving you a 6th trait line. Correct me if I’m wrong, but they haven’t said: Druids cannot use the Beast Mastery Trait line. The specialization line gives traits… just like your other trait lines do.

I think the main thing he was getting at is if you want your Ranger to use a staff, you HAVE to spec in the druid line. You cannot spec in the core specs and still use a staff.

Weyrd.2794:

I also disagree that this will limit build diversity, but I will concede that it will change what types of builds are available. So a build type that you’ve been running for a while will no longer be possible, but new build types will be appearing as a result. I do realize this will be tough for people that really like their builds and want to keep them, but there may be other builds that you will enjoy playing more if given the chance. That’s the hope at least.

We’re losing a lot more diversity/options than we are gaining.

We could have the current diversity and new builds made possible by being able to max out 3 lines if we were still allowed to spend points as we want. It’s adding 2 more options within a single traitline, but removing the ability to diversify trait point spread and forcing the use of only 1 trait of each tier.

mrstealth.6701:

Weyrd.2794:

I also disagree that this will limit build diversity, but I will concede that it will change what types of builds are available. So a build type that you’ve been running for a while will no longer be possible, but new build types will be appearing as a result. I do realize this will be tough for people that really like their builds and want to keep them, but there may be other builds that you will enjoy playing more if given the chance. That’s the hope at least.

We’re losing a lot more diversity/options than we are gaining.

We could have the current diversity and new builds made possible by being able to max out 3 lines if we were still allowed to spend points as we want. It’s adding 2 more options within a single traitline, but removing the ability to diversify trait point spread and forcing the use of only 1 trait of each tier.

THANK YOU somebody who gets it! 1+++++++++

So you guys prefer an illusion of choice instead a real build options? Keep in mind that a lot of current trait will be either removed/merged into exisitng skills or traits/improved.

You dont even know how medi guard traits will look like at this point.
And to be honest its a buff to a lot of builds – for exampe pewpew ranger will be capable to go 6/6/6/0/0 and gain condi removal – something they lack nowdays. Thats some serious huge buff right here. And that applies to many other builds as well.

People will realize that this isn’t that bad once it’s out and how it will pave the way for better balance and expansion later. I think people are in shock and a bit scared of losing current builds, which is understandable.

I’d like to keep an open mind, but at first glance these changes do seem to more greatly limit build diversity. Most of my characters have traits spread out over 4 or sometimes 5 lines. Yeah, some of the useless traits are going to be going away, but their example of water magic doesn’t really impress me. I wouldn’t put more than 2 points into it, but that’s not a possibility anymore.

I also think it’s a poor design choice to limit the new weapons that each class will get to the elite specialization. It’s bad enough that weapons currently are restricted to a role/build. Keeping the new weapon linked to the specialization does not enhance diversity or experimentation. Each weapon set should be equally viable in all situations, regardless of build.

ronpierce.2760:

People will realize that this isn’t that bad once it’s out and how it will pave the way for better balance and expansion later. I think people are in shock and a bit scared of losing current builds, which is understandable.

Gamers always hate change, it’s like the law

Toast.1495:

I also think it’s a poor design choice to limit the new weapons that each class will get to the elite specialization. It’s bad enough that weapons currently are restricted to a role/build. Keeping the new weapon linked to the specialization does not enhance diversity or experimentation. Each weapon set should be equally viable in all situations, regardless of build.

They announced from the very beginning that you’d have to be in the specialization to use the new weapon. I’m a bit surprised the specialization is simply an added elite spec line, though that does make it easier to do the swap-in-swap-out they described. But as the new weapon is part of the “identity” of the elite spec, it makes sense to me that it would be restricted to using with that spec.

However, it does beg the question of what happens to equipped weapons when you retrait. Having them just go to a random bag space would be terrible on the QoL front. So I hope the Hero Panel Equipment page will have a slot to put in the elite spec weapon set, just as we have underwater slots to store our underwater weapons when running about on dry land.

Donari.5237:

So I hope the Hero Panel Equipment page will have a slot to put in the elite spec weapon set, just as we have underwater slots to store our underwater weapons when running about on dry land.

I can only imagine that this is exactly what they have in mind for it. Much like how you can’t pull your underwater weapons out unless you’re under water, you likely wouldn’t be able to pull your spec weapon out unless you swap.

Donari.5237:

They announced from the very beginning that you’d have to be in the specialization to use the new weapon. I’m a bit surprised the specialization is simply an added elite spec line, though that does make it easier to do the swap-in-swap-out they described. But as the new weapon is part of the “identity” of the elite spec, it makes sense to me that it would be restricted to using with that spec.

Yes, and it was a bad idea from the beginning. Heck, it was a bad idea pre-launch when they pigeon-holed weapons into specific roles. It was a bad idea to abandon the first trait system they revealed and go with the tiered nonsense we got instead.

Toast.1495:

Donari.5237:

They announced from the very beginning that you’d have to be in the specialization to use the new weapon. I’m a bit surprised the specialization is simply an added elite spec line, though that does make it easier to do the swap-in-swap-out they described. But as the new weapon is part of the “identity” of the elite spec, it makes sense to me that it would be restricted to using with that spec.

Yes, and it was a bad idea from the beginning. Heck, it was a bad idea pre-launch when they pigeon-holed weapons into specific roles. It was a bad idea to abandon the first trait system they revealed and go with the tiered nonsense we got instead.

Yeah, I kind of agree.

Jekkt.6045:

currently you’re able to spend points in all the lines simultaneously, the most popular build using this would be medi guard with 0/1/6/1/6.

by forcing us to spend all our points in 3 lines only this will cut down build diversity and is imo not a good thing.

a response by a dev would be appreciated.

Forget the points, they will be gone, instead you can accumulate as many as you want, and spend them any way you want, only instead of choosing which 3 lines to spend in, you have to choose which 3 lines you will specialize in(because you can only spec 3 at a time, out of 5, but eventually you could max all 5, then imagine the possibilities).

Zaklex.6308:

Jekkt.6045:

currently you’re able to spend points in all the lines simultaneously, the most popular build using this would be medi guard with 0/1/6/1/6.

by forcing us to spend all our points in 3 lines only this will cut down build diversity and is imo not a good thing.

a response by a dev would be appreciated.

Forget the points, they will be gone, instead you can accumulate as many as you want, and spend them any way you want, only instead of choosing which 3 lines to spend in, you have to choose which 3 lines you will specialize in(because you can only spec 3 at a time, out of 5, but eventually you could max all 5, then imagine the possibilities).

Hmm…“you could max all 5”? Please let me know if I am wrong, but regardless if you max all 5 lines, you still can only use 3 at a time. Whereas now you can diversify points in all 5 lines however you want (albeit not always optimal).

Zaklex.6308:

Forget the points, they will be gone, instead you can accumulate as many as you want, and spend them any way you want, only instead of choosing which 3 lines to spend in, you have to choose which 3 lines you will specialize in(because you can only spec 3 at a time, out of 5, but eventually you could max all 5, then imagine the possibilities).

You might want to take a closer look at the articles posted. Specializing in 3 lines isn’t really much different than spending points in 3 lines. Except that now you’re limited to only 3 lines, instead of spreading the points out as you wish. There is no more spending 4 in one line, and putting those remain two into another. It’s max the line, or don’t use it at all.

And there is no indication that we’ll be able to use all 5 lines at once (6 actually, including the elite spec). That’s the type of progression they are trying to avoid. You can unlock them all to make them available to use, but you’re still only able to spend points to activate 3 of the 6.

mrstealth.6701:

There are some traitlines with traits I consider vital in the adept and master tiers. Traitlines that I have no use or desire to go further into. Being able to spend those points going partially into another traitline is a huge part of the flexibility we have now.

You realize this is contradictory? If you consider some traits vital, staples or whatever, they only limit build diversity, not add to it. It means you are, to a degree, forced to choose them.

The new system will force you to make more meaningful choices, instead of augmenting your strengths and covering your weaknesses in the same build. Specialization is what leads to build diversity, not cookie-cutter builds.

Andred.1087:

Could you guys please for once stop pretending you know more about this than the kittening devs do… They’re doing an AMA tomorrow to clarify questions, for kitten’s sake!

Actually it is crystal clear that we will lose diversity in the way the OP describes, the medi guardian build will be impossible, yes builds will be adapted but there will be inherently less build diversity and less choice.

morrolan.9608:

Andred.1087:

Could you guys please for once stop pretending you know more about this than the kittening devs do… They’re doing an AMA tomorrow to clarify questions, for kitten’s sake!

Actually it is crystal clear that we will lose diversity in the way the OP describes, the medi guardian build will be impossible, yes builds will be adapted but there will be inherently less build diversity and less choice.

So because one build type becomes impossible we will lose diversity? How many different builds will become available for the first time because of the rework? It all boils down to we can’t make a determination on a gain or loss of build diversity until we know the true extent of all the changes made to each individual trait.

Aenaos.8160:

The new system will definitely reduce build diversity for the sake of better
class balancing.Just removing stats from trait lines and moving hem all to
the gear is huge step to this direction.A lot of middle ground hybrid builds
will be lost.

Shouldn’t be. Well in sPVP maybe but everything else, you can choose to put on a piece of soldiers or cleric gear or trinket to fix it.