Guild Wars 2

since HOT, some classes absolutely should not be played without their elite spec (looking at you revenant, lesser extent engineer) and some should take it rather than not.
so this brings me to the question:
how is arenanet going to make old e-specs viable when their are two elite specs to choose from for each class? the only way i see new ones working is if they blow the current ones right out of the water, and that’s a problem in itself..
thoughts?

I think all Professions are viable. Perhaps, you mean optimal?

I certainly don’t use the Elite Specializations on most of my characters; I don’t seem to have any issues with content (I don’t Raid, though). Maybe you are referring to Raids, or PvP (which I don’t partake in, either)?

The difference is most notable in the PvP formats.

If you play in those formats without an elite spec, unless on a very few set of specific classes/builds, you instantly become absolute trash. There are very few core builds that come even close to viability. 9/10 times you might as well just play without traits is how big of a difference it makes there.

Until they nerf the elites massively, there’s nothing to be done. More powercreep will just kill the game outright.

Lightsbane.9012:

since HOT, some classes absolutely should not be played without their elite spec (looking at you revenant, lesser extent engineer) and some should take it rather than not.
so this brings me to the question:
how is arenanet going to make old e-specs viable when their are two elite specs to choose from for each class? the only way i see new ones working is if they blow the current ones right out of the water, and that’s a problem in itself..
thoughts?

They don’t have to ‘blow the current especs out of the water’ – they simply have to do something the current elite specs don’t provide.

Sartharina.3542:

They don’t have to ‘blow the current especs out of the water’ – they simply have to do something the current elite specs don’t provide.

Theoretically it’s something that the difference between current elite specs and vanilla core profs was meant to be. We know how that ended up. Anet preferred to send the message “if you don’t have expac, you will be left behind”. If they’ll do the same for next expac, then it’s unlikely for the new elite specs to end up as anything except superior to the current ones.

Well, at least it will make the current raids easier.

Lightsbane.9012:

since HOT, some classes absolutely should not be played without their elite spec (looking at you revenant, lesser extent engineer)

What are you talking about? I find it easier to roam the HoT maps/do meta events/HoT story with engie than scrapper. The thing is scrapper has more blocks, toughness and is generally a braindead spec. A skilled engie should not meet any problems at all (and is more fun to play).

First old specs are not elite specs (elite specs are stronger specs whoch augment your playstyle and role therefore are more impactful and strong than the core specs). Also rev is a nono without herald coz of his development, u see the other classes where maid from scratch with no elite specs in mind so elite specs are just there to amplify existing traits of theirs while with rev the class was made while with herald in mind so the elite specs complements the other specs makimg it mandatory.

zealex.9410:

First old specs are not elite specs (elite specs are stronger specs whoch augment your playstyle and role therefore are more impactful and strong than the core specs).

That’s not how they were described by devs when they were introduced. According to the original info they are a branching out, not an upgrade. Both options are supposed to be equally strong and useful.
Of course it didn’t end up like that, but that’s not because of official design. It’s either a result of Anet’s inability to balance things (coupled with the desire to not make the new specs subpar), or a result of Anet wanting to persuade players to buy the expac.
Whichever option is true, it’s likely going to remain equally true with the next expac.

I suspect a big part of it was ‘They wanted the new spec to give new and unique things, but not break compatibility with the other specialization lines’ – forcing the designs to, instead of being a full replacement of abilities, tack the changes on to the existing skills and powers.

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

First old specs are not elite specs (elite specs are stronger specs whoch augment your playstyle and role therefore are more impactful and strong than the core specs).

That’s not how they were described by devs when they were introduced. According to the original info they are a branching out, not an upgrade. Both options are supposed to be equally strong and useful.
Of course it didn’t end up like that, but that’s not because of official design. It’s either a result of Anet’s inability to balance things (coupled with the desire to not make the new specs subpar), or a result of Anet wanting to persuade players to buy the expac.
Whichever option is true, it’s likely going to remain equally true with the next expac.

that does not mean the next elite specs need to be stromger than the current ones.

zealex.9410:

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

First old specs are not elite specs (elite specs are stronger specs whoch augment your playstyle and role therefore are more impactful and strong than the core specs).

That’s not how they were described by devs when they were introduced. According to the original info they are a branching out, not an upgrade. Both options are supposed to be equally strong and useful.
Of course it didn’t end up like that, but that’s not because of official design. It’s either a result of Anet’s inability to balance things (coupled with the desire to not make the new specs subpar), or a result of Anet wanting to persuade players to buy the expac.
Whichever option is true, it’s likely going to remain equally true with the next expac.

that does not mean the next elite specs need to be stromger than the current ones.

You haven’t actually read what i wrote, right? That’s exactly what it means. From the Anet’s point of view they will need to be better. They won’t allow the new specs to be outshined by the old ones, and they lack the balance skills to make the new elite specs just equally good (because they’re really bad at finetuning, and prefer the hammer style balancing).

That means that they will either make them intentionally better (because they’d like to push players in buying expac), or they will try to make them as good as the previous ones. In the second case, they’re definitely not going to be worse, because Anet’s not going to undercut the new expac in this way. Because of their balancing skills however, “not worse” will not mean “equal”, it will always end up as “better”. So, whichever reasoning they will follow, until something drastically changes compared to the previous expac design methods, the new elite specs will end up better than HoT ones.

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

Astralporing.1957:

zealex.9410:

First old specs are not elite specs (elite specs are stronger specs whoch augment your playstyle and role therefore are more impactful and strong than the core specs).

That’s not how they were described by devs when they were introduced. According to the original info they are a branching out, not an upgrade. Both options are supposed to be equally strong and useful.
Of course it didn’t end up like that, but that’s not because of official design. It’s either a result of Anet’s inability to balance things (coupled with the desire to not make the new specs subpar), or a result of Anet wanting to persuade players to buy the expac.
Whichever option is true, it’s likely going to remain equally true with the next expac.

that does not mean the next elite specs need to be stromger than the current ones.

You haven’t actually read what i wrote, right? That’s exactly what it means. From the Anet’s point of view they will need to be better. They won’t allow the new specs to be outshined by the old ones, and they lack the balance skills to make the new elite specs just equally good (because they’re really bad at finetuning, and prefer the hammer style balancing).

That means that they will either make them intentionally better (because they’d like to push players in buying expac), or they will try to make them as good as the previous ones. In the second case, they’re definitely not going to be worse, because Anet’s not going to undercut the new expac in this way. Because of their balancing skills however, “not worse” will not mean “equal”, it will always end up as “better”. So, whichever reasoning they will follow, until something drastically changes compared to the previous expac design methods, the new elite specs will end up better than HoT ones.

after hearing you calling that the next elite specs will be stronger i wonder if you actually play the game.

I do. Why do you doubt it? If you can find a mistake in my argument, please, do point it out, i’d be happy to discuss it with you. If you can’t however (and so far it looks that way)…

The only reason some core specs are better then cond ( cond eng, cond ranger ) its because their elite have a different porpuse ( druid is support focus ) the moment both get a cond elite then you will not see the core classes anymore.
And this is just like elite skills on GW1, you arent suppose to not use 1.
And core classes will never provide something elite cant, because you can still equip two traits from the core classes to get something the elite cant provide.
The only real solution if they want the core classes to still be on the same foot is take one trait from each class and make it an elite.

OnizukaBR.8537:

The only reason some core specs are better then cond ( cond eng, cond ranger ) its because their elite have a different porpuse ( druid is support focus ) the moment both get a cond elite then you will not see the core classes anymore.
And this is just like elite skills on GW1, you arent suppose to not use 1.
And core classes will never provide something elite cant, because you can still equip two traits from the core classes to get something the elite cant provide.
The only real solution if they want the core classes to still be on the same foot is take one trait from each class and make it an elite.

So do that mean hot players can use both the hot elite and the core elite?
Since everyone should be able to use core skill lines.

And it dont mean so, then what happens when my necro want bloodmagic elite but anet decide to make spite the core elite its unfair… chatter that will eventualy start?

Linken, you can only equip one elite at a time.

The wierd part is if they keep making elite=new weapon, we will begin seeing some rather strange combinations, and downright rediculous ones. It is already strange to see warriors not being the best at the large two handed weapons (GS and Hammer) and guardians not being the best with a shield (seeing as blocking is kinda their whole playstyle).