Guild Wars 2

Hello everybody. Something i have noticed for a while now, is that the GW2 community seem to get less upset about certain features that they may have been against,

as long as it goes by a different name, than other known MMOs call that same feature.

Raid Dungeons seem to be one of those features that is looked down upon in the GW2 community compared to the general MMO community.

If Anet has any intentions to add Raid Dungeons, I believe it would be in Arena Net’s best interest to change the name of the feature to not ring too many bells the wrong way.

This is where you all come in.
whats some substitutes names for Raid Dungeons feature?

To be honest keeping the name “Raid” would be a good selling point for people who want that.

And to the GW2 community Anet could say it’s not 100% the same like in other games and say how it’s better.

It depends on what your definition of is, is.

Well, as I understand it (and as stated on WoW’s forum). Isn’t a “Raid” a grouping of 10-40 players? So technically you can’t Raid a dungeon since it only allows one five member party. Personally I call them dungeon clears or vanquishing as taken from Guild Wars 1 dungeons.

Now Teq I would call a Raid. Or even the world bosses since they do take more than 10 players to take them down. Remember the days we SB or MAW would fail?

Missions, Adventures, Expeditions, Operations, Alerts. All names for various types of instanced content I’ve seen in other games

Seth Moonshadow.2710:

Well, as I understand it (and as stated on WoW’s forum). Isn’t a “Raid” a grouping of 10-40 players? So technically you can’t Raid a dungeon since it only allows one five member party. Personally I call them dungeon clears or vanquishing as taken from Guild Wars 1 dungeons.

Now Teq I would call a Raid. Or even the world bosses since they do take more than 10 players to take them down. Remember the days we SB or MAW would fail?

“Raids” in DCUO were 8 man.

I think the more accurate differentiation is that a raid is multiple base groups, whether it be 2 or more doesn’t matter, just more than what you have in your typical party system.

This is so weird to me, ask a new dungeon and most ppl don’t care, make party sizes a bit bigger and call it a raid and suddenly there’s a giant kittenstorm raining down on the topic… Sigh…

Delves, excursions, assaults…

In WOW “Raid” orignally meant more then 1 group – in that game groups were 5 people, same as GW2. I would say keeping the name and that definition is the way to go.

Not all raid content had to be dungeons though. I remember doing quite a few open-world pvp “raids” before people figured out that it was completely pointless. It wasn’t until a bit later that “raiding” came to mean the large, instanced dungeon it does now.

Rhyse.8179:

In WOW “Raid” orignally meant more then 1 group – in that game groups were 5 people, same as GW2. I would say keeping the name and that definition is the way to go.

Not all raid content had to be dungeons though. I remember doing quite a few open-world pvp “raids” before people figured out that it was completely pointless. It wasn’t until a bit later that “raiding” came to mean the large, instanced dungeon it does now.

Well in WoW there were two different terms.

*Raids
*Raid Dungeons.

Dungeons were mostly Instanced with a few open world dungeons in the game.

Raids is to have something larger than standard party size.

Raid dungeons are dungeons designed around raid groups bigger than standard group side.

So raid dungeons themselves are Instanced dungeons for larger than standard group size.

I made up suggestions when that topic was taked about earlier, how ANet should name Raids for various different “Raid Modes”.
There shouldn#t be in Guild Wars 2 just only 1 content type of generic Raids, that are called then raids, there should be multiple different typs of raid content that should have all their own name and different mechanics to keep the player busy in multiple different ways.

Guild Crusades = Raids started as a Guild and been done in like a 12-50 Man kind of way, where you do together “Missions” and you have to do multiple tasks in them to be successful, and where you can do also various Side Quests in these Guild Crusade Missions, which when you do them, increase your Maximum Reward at the End of the Mission. But not all of them are shown to you, some of these Side Quests are also always hidden in the Maps and pop up, once you do in the Guild Crusades something, that lets these Side Quests trigger for your party.
Guild Crusades would be basicalyl an adcanced form of “Guild Missions”, which would work alot more like the GW1 Missions, but just with alot more players being involved, than just 8, so that you can have in these Guild Crusades also some epic scaled battles and so that you have to split up your group sometimes also to do multiple things maybe at the same time at different places

Heroic Fractals
These would work basocally like the BMP’s from GW1. They would be more small scale raids designed for 5 players, where you get put somewhere into a heroic historic scenery of the tyrian lore, and where you replay these situons and some NPCs of that timeline moment. Historic Moments, that come into multiple chapters, verses ect. which you can replay and once you completed your History Books with all Chapters, Verses ect. of your Heroic Fractals, then you can turn in those complete history books for some awesome rewards, that are worth it to complete those heroic fractals.
Example: There woould be a Heroic Fractal, that lets you replay all the content of the Guild Wars Books, Ghosts of Ascalon and Destiny’s Edge, so that you replay these historic heroic moments in the view of for example Dougal Keane, Riona Grady, Killeen ect. in regard of GoA, or as Rytlock, Logan, Zojja ect. in regard of DE when they went for Kralkatorrik/Jormag’s Champion

Battlefields
This would be the kind of Raid, which is just working like a big PK Open World PvP Raid map kind of thing

Hunting Grounds
These would be Monster Hunter Style huge raid content maps, where you simply can hutn down countless of monsters for loot, if you don’t like Missions, but want simply kill lots of monsters in endless waves in search for certain rare and wanted Monsters, which when you kill them, you can earn some great rewards. There woudl be a kind of Monster Hunter Guild, which gives players daily tasks to hunt for specific monsters and to bring back specific “Trophies” from them (Witcher Style) in order to claim your rewards

Dungeon Crawlers
Special Dungeons, which you can play either as group or solo, which become more challening, so deeper/higher you get into them and progress in them.
Dungeons, which change how they look like, which enemies they have inside ect. whenever you enter them.

One example of such kind of dungeon would be the “Tower of the Ancients”
A Tower with 100 floors, where you have to beat every 10 floors a unique chalenging boss to progress further, which are the only 10 floors, that never change.
It would work like the Cave of the Ancients in the “Lufia Games”, where yiou start on the first floor again with Level 1 and Beginner Gear and where you need to use the equipment, that you receive while you progress in the tower, that you find from treasure chests.
There would be special cursed treasure chests, with special unique equipment, that you can find only in this dungeon, that you can keep also later and which you can use also late,r when you leave and come back later, so that you can get that way also equipment, that makes it easier for you to progress in the tower, the next time you get into it, so that you don’t have to do it again in beginner gear.

Daywolf.2630:

It depends on what your definition of is, is.

There are a lot of different definitions, afterall.

Since we’d likely be fighting dragon minions in them, and in light of the guardian specialization and its creative name we can call them…

Dragonhunts!

Eh I was trying to make a joke but that actually doesn’t sound bad.

Jerus.4350:

Expeditions

Kinda fits with this new “Jungle exploration” theme in HoT.

I’d call them elite missions.

Or we could try this new thing where we don’t require fifty guys in the same TS channel to do one piece of content.

Seriously, what’s wrong with a five-man team? Most everyone can scrape up a five-man team if they really need to. Not most everyone can work up a ten-man herd, and nobody wants to work up a fifty-man marching clusterfrisk just to try and do one thing. Things like the Aetherpath show that you can have a long, multistage piece of instanced content that doesn’t require the entire population of a developing-world country in hive-mind unison to accomplish, so why do people continually beg for these stupidly oversized bits of nonsense?

Five-man dungeons? I like those. Those are fun. Nice, compact, easily manageable teams where everyone can actually contribute and the party bloat is kept to a reasonable minimum.

Ten-man dungeons, whatever you call them? Ehhhhhhh….

Fifty-man ‘dungeons’? Sod off. That’s not a dungeon, that’s a corporate management sim disguised as a Fantasy Adventure where the contributions of any one single player that isn’t in on the management sim are essentially meaningless.

Or, to put this a bit more succinctly for all the TL;DR types who hate reading things on forums…

Raids are raids no matter what you call them, and that being said, raids are bad. We don’t need them, and if people want them there’s five hundred and seventeen other MMOs out there built exclusively around raiding. Play one of those.

If they call them missions then its a bit of a throw back to GW1.

Missions makes significantly more sense to me in terms of the GW2 lexicon. I’m not really attached to a name though and I think most people don’t care. I think people do want very difficult PvE group content though. There’s some of that as is – I mean look at Triple Trouble, and some dungeons and fractals are quite challenging, but what we’re missing is instanced content that you and a group of more than 5 players can struggle over before finally achieving it. Raids as we’re used to in other MMOs involve practice and more than one attempt. GW2 has a lot of options to take that principle and make it better. Say they made 25 man content in largish maps (smaller than current zones but bigger than current dungeons) with a long event series and a story. Unlike normal raids in a game like WoW, it might be beneficial or necessary for a group to split up, perhaps coming together to kill bosses after taking part in much more strategic objectives to ultimately advance the mission. The different parts of this greater mission/raid would slowly unlock check points and save the current state of the mission so that players can come back to it later. If we could get something like that even in just 10 man content, I think a lot more players will stick with HoT after it comes out.

Vayne.8563:

I’d call them elite missions.

There, one elitist! Get him! I’m joking. That’s a fine name and evokes the challenges of a raid.

Jerus.4350:

I think the more accurate differentiation is that a raid is multiple base groups, whether it be 2 or more doesn’t matter, just more than what you have in your typical party system.

To be more accurate, here is the exact quote “Raid groups are a way to have parties of more than 5 and up to 40 people, divided into up to 8 groups of up to 5 players. “ ~ WoW Basically a Squad Leader or Commander Tag, multiple base groups in one larger formation.

So we basically have “Raid” ability already in the form of Squads. We have “Riad” content in the form of Tequatl The Sunless, Triple Trouble, Karka Queen, and as I stated before any of the world bosses. We also have “Raids” in WvW basically anywhere you seen a Commander Tag.

I still vote for and use the terms Clear or Vanquish for dungeons since other terms like Missions (used for guilds) or Adventures (coming in HoT) are in or will be in current use.

What would be REALLY nice is if commanders could see those in their squads using the small party icon view as a separate window. In my opinion at least that would be helpful

I’ve never actually played a game with raids, but based on how I’ve heard them described I’d suggest naming them Elite Missions.

That’s what the harder instances requiring larger groups were calling in GW1; things like The Underworld, Fissure of Woe, Realm of Torment etc.

So for GW1 players it has a similar meaning to the word raid, and for both GW1 players and people coming from other games any implication that this is a carbon copy of raids in other games and will work exactly the same way is removed. Which I feel is important because even now I would bet money Anet will put their own spin on it and (just like the absence of quests and quest hubs, lack of the trinity and typical restrictions like ranged classes and melee classes) that will totally confuse some people who seem to expect to be able to jump into any MMO and play it exactly like their last one.

Knighthonor.4061:

Hello everybody. Something i have noticed for a while now, is that the GW2 community seem to get less upset about certain features that they may have been against,

as long as it goes by a different name, than other known MMOs call that same feature.

Raid Dungeons seem to be one of those features that is looked down upon in the GW2 community compared to the general MMO community.

If Anet has any intentions to add Raid Dungeons, I believe it would be in Arena Net’s best interest to change the name of the feature to not ring too many bells the wrong way.

This is where you all come in.
whats some substitutes names for Raid Dungeons feature?

I don’t think it’s so much the name but what is associated with the name. Many people see raids as a home to elitist attitudes and I think that’s what people want to avoid.

Instead of actual raids though I think anet should take a page from their first game. Take for example the mission Vizunah Square. In this missions Cantha characters fight through slums to reach Vizunah square while at the same time non cantha members fight through a different area of the slums. The cantha side usually got there first and fought off waves of afflicted until the non cantha team arrives and then the cantha and non cantha teams team up to finish the mission. The end result is you have at most 16 people working together for about half of the mission.

Another example is The Eternal Grove. This one was only 8 people but the team was split into 2 hroups, each defending a gate.

Something like this might be better for the game than traditional raids. It is not only a throw back to GW1 bit it also let’s for large groups do something different than the usual raid stuff. Me personally I would like to see people coordinating 3 or 4 seperated groups advancing through different paths of an instanced area. Like 1 group taking up a sniping/artillery position while another group makes a head on charge and a third group sneaks up the side to hit the enemy on their flank.

Seth Moonshadow.2710:

Jerus.4350:

I think the more accurate differentiation is that a raid is multiple base groups, whether it be 2 or more doesn’t matter, just more than what you have in your typical party system.

To be more accurate, here is the exact quote “Raid groups are a way to have parties of more than 5 and up to 40 people, divided into up to 8 groups of up to 5 players. “ ~ WoW Basically a Squad Leader or Commander Tag, multiple base groups in one larger formation.

So we basically have “Raid” ability already in the form of Squads. We have “Riad” content in the form of Tequatl The Sunless, Triple Trouble, Karka Queen, and as I stated before any of the world bosses. We also have “Raids” in WvW basically anywhere you seen a Commander Tag.

I still vote for and use the terms Clear or Vanquish for dungeons since other terms like Missions (used for guilds) or Adventures (coming in HoT) are in or will be in current use.

What would be REALLY nice is if commanders could see those in their squads using the small party icon view as a separate window. In my opinion at least that would be helpful

Yup, though I don’t see how quoting WoW (not even the first MMO to use raids ) makes anything more accurate. Raid = multi group/party content.

To different people, the word ‘raid’ has a different flavor, and a big part of that flavor is their experience with them. To me the term “raid” draws negative feels because of my experience with them. Gear gating, time gating, and some of the biggest groups of kittens I’ve ever met are things that I remember from my experience with that type of content. So, while I’m not against instanced content for larger groups of players, I am against doing it “the same way” all the others seem to set it up.

Some have argued that in GW1 things like FoW, UW, DoA, Urgoz, and The Deep could be considered ‘raids.’ Though, Anet referred to them as ‘Elite Areas’ instead, and I didn’t have anywhere near the negative experience with those. So the term ‘Elite Area’ (which could very well be considered the same thing to an extent) doesn’t have the negative connotation attached to it.

Just food for thought…

Dungeoneering (although from Runescape it only had a maximum of 5 players, and from what I’ve heard of, raids are more like 25+ players so I dunno).

Challenge Missions
Competitive Missions
Group Missions

What could be cool is turning each available dungeon into a “raid” dungeon by allowing 5 people per dungeon path able to join. Need to have 5 people per path, they are completed simultaneously (maybe a loose cutscene explaining how and why it is possible for this to occur) and then they all meet up at the end for a big boss battle that would actually require 15-20 people to work together to complete. Perhaps using tools/skills obtained during each path.

cranos.5913:

This is so weird to me, ask a new dungeon and most ppl don’t care, make party sizes a bit bigger and call it a raid and suddenly there’s a giant kittenstorm raining down on the topic… Sigh…

Currently, the rest of the game isn’t a forced precursor to dungeons, which is what most content is for raids in other games. Right now, I’m gearing my character both for stats and for looks and I think I’ve stepped into a dungeon once and I didn’t even have a reason to. If “raids” were introduced, they would come with the institutionalized idea that the game will revolve and cater to them and that everything you do will culminate in a Raid night for a piece of gear, maybe. We can argue the description of the word all we like but the sound of that word creates an image in our heads at this point.

kash.9213:

cranos.5913:

This is so weird to me, ask a new dungeon and most ppl don’t care, make party sizes a bit bigger and call it a raid and suddenly there’s a giant kittenstorm raining down on the topic… Sigh…

Currently, the rest of the game isn’t a forced precursor to dungeons, which is what most content is for raids in other games. Right now, I’m gearing my character both for stats and for looks and I think I’ve stepped into a dungeon once and I didn’t even have a reason to. If “raids” were introduced, they would come with the institutionalized idea that the game will revolve and cater to them and that everything you do will culminate in a Raid night for a piece of gear, maybe. We can argue the description of the word all we like but the sound of that word creates an image in our heads at this point.

That’s just because people don’t stop to think before they make a knee jerk reaction because of a single word.

The stigma for raids that you’re talking about it completely shut down by the limited gear progression in the game.

While there are reasons other games do it that aren’t worth getting into, the issue is that raid gear is always the best in those games and people feel forced into them. Well, that wouldn’t happen here unless they go back on their design of ascended being BiS.

So, people don’t need to worry about that. It’s just instanced content made for more than one group. Nothing more, nothing less. I’d imagine you’d want to put unique rewards in it, but no different than Teq having unique rewards, or silverwastes, or PvP and WvW getting their own stuff, but none of it exceeding in power anything else.