why did you remove hearts
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Instead we have adventures, which is pretty much the same thing. Except more challenging, more rewarding and, more importantly, repeatable.
Dear A-net: Please nerf rock. Paper is fine
~Sincerely, Scissors
~Sincerely, Scissors
(edited by Windu The Forbidden One.6045)
Hearts were already missing from the Orr maps before they started adding the pre-HOT and HOT maps. I don’t miss them . . .
Hearts are a waste of development resources. Once per character content.
One of my 30 accounts (Malediktus.9250).
I once agreed with the OP, but as time went on, I found them a tedious chore. They were only ever added late in development as a response to players wanting better guidance through the game
They have developed their dynamic event technology and creativity to do this better now so hearts are no longer needed. Orr, Southson, Dry Top and Silverwastes have all been added in the last 4 years (Orr prior to launch) without hearts so we knew HoT and future maps would not get bogged down by them.
I think hearts are a like training wheels. They give new players easy missions so they can learn to find events or learn exploring. So not having them outside hot is a good idea.
EverythingOP
I don’t see any change of policy.
What maps in core Tyria that are 100% level 80 include hearts? Frostgorge includes some sub-L80 sections and is the highest-level core map that still has hearts. None of the Orrian maps do, nor do Dry Top or Silverwastes.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
I didnt buy HoT until a few months after release so perhaps I missed something. When were hearts removed? They were gone by the time I got the expansion.
I didnt buy HoT until a few months after release so perhaps I missed something. When were hearts removed? They were gone by the time I got the expansion.
OP just phrased it abit bad, they were never in hot maps since they are level 80 maps same as orr and sw etc.
But the OP thought they should have been for some reason, they can run around hot maps doing single events and chains without being heavily guided I guess.
How could they remove hearts from HoT if they were never in it?
At one time in development, the game didn’t have Hearts at all, but they were added prior to launch. If you notice, Hearts only exist in zones where the five races or allies like Quaggan, Kodan, etc. live. The zones where the Pact is invading enemy territory, like Orr, DT, SW and HoT, don’t have them. I suspect, since any zones ANet adds are likely going to be enemy territory henceforth, we won’t see more Hearts.
Like Randulf, I once liked most Hearts. There were some exceptions. Now, after multiple map completions, I find them somewhat tedious. It would not hurt my feelings if we don’t see them going forward.
Hearts weren’t even added to this game until the third beta test before launch. The first two beta tests didn’t have them.
They were only added because people must have markers on their maps. Other games so conditioned people to look for stars or exclamation marks, or whatever, that people couldn’t function without that. So they added hearts to keep people in areas where events spawn.
Hearts have several disadvantages, whatever their advantages are.
1. You can only do them once. That means, every time I return on to that zone on the same character, and my hearts are done, I’m pretty much playing the zone without hearts anyway.
2. If you’ve done world complete on multiple characters, as I have, they’re a completely useless time sink. The rewards are paltry, they take time, and I can’t complete the map and make another legendary unless I do 300 hearts, most of which aren’t that exciting and some of which are downright annoying. They don’t make world completion more fun, particularly after your second or third. I’m working on my seventh.
3. Hearts take time to create. You create a hard, for a player to do once, for 1-5 minutes. That seems like an awful lot of wasted time.
If hearts do make it back into the game somehow (and I hope they don’t) they need to alter them to make them repeatable, and vary them more.
How could they remove hearts from HoT if they were never in it?
I think the OP meant, why aren’t there any in the first place, as in “why did ANet stop adding hearts to maps?”
(I don’t think they did — L80 maps never had them, but the OP sees it differently.)
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
I like for there to be at least a few hearts, because it gives a feeling of progression to the game. You enter a new area, put in some work, and soon you have an extra merchant that you can buy/sell with.
The best ones are the ones where the area around them has small changes when you complete the heart. Small objects appear/disappear, plants go from withered to healthy, walls get fixed, and the area becomes generally better. Something like that would make sense as we push into new areas (if we want to avoid the meta-event problems of HoT in the future). Imagine helping to build up a base camp somewhere, you start with half completed walls around the camp, and when you’re done the walls change to the finished version.
Still, I wouldn’t want it to be overused. A few per zone would be fine and reasonable. Too many, and you’re back to being the only competent person in a zone of lazy idiot NPCs again.
Sarcasm, delivered with a
delicate, brick-like subtlety.
delicate, brick-like subtlety.
I like that there are no hearts in high level maps and I wish they wouldn’t exist even in ~lvl 50+ maps. There are a few decent hearts but nearly all of them are just pretty boring tasks to complete with a few extreme ones becoming very hard to complete during certain event stages (due to lack of available tasks i.e. mobs don’t spawn due to event capturing).
The thing that I like about the maps they added later on is that you can go in and decide what you want to do. You don’t have to complete every single event to get 100% map completion or all you rewards, you can just go in and do what you want. Hearts are a type of mechanic that I can understand helps new players, but as soon as you’re past that they become tedious.
I only do hearts because I do want to get 100% map completion on all my characters at some point. If I didn’t care for it I would have stopped doing hearts years ago. Once you are an experienced player the only thing hearts do is fill up a spot on a checklist.
Hearts gone from all extension map….Yes, good riddance, these are annoying as kitten.
Hearts were added as training wheels for the event system. Anyone who has gotten to HoT should theoretically have learned all they need about that system already.
I didnt buy HoT until a few months after release so perhaps I missed something. When were hearts removed? They were gone by the time I got the expansion.
OP just phrased it abit bad, they were never in hot maps since they are level 80 maps same as orr and sw etc.
But the OP thought they should have been for some reason, they can run around hot maps doing single events and chains without being heavily guided I guess.
Thank You,
OP, hearts were meant to serve the function of training wheels for opeen world PvE. They have never been present in purely level 80 zone. This is by intention. Ideally you will have a somewhat solid idea of how to play the game by level 80 and will not need them any more than you would need the tutorial to be repeated at endgame.
If only you could take off the training wheels for subsequent toons. By the ninth one, I feel like I’ve trained enough and while I enjoy mapping and finding poi/vistas/wps, I could do without the hearts. Still, they’re not going away so I do them and carry on.
Saying they were removed implies we had them in the first place …
IIRC, Anet did mention somewhere why they didn’t include hearts in HoT.
Saying they were removed implies we had them in the first place …
IIRC, Anet did mention somewhere why they didn’t include hearts in HoT.
They haven’t had hearts in any L80 zones, except Frostgorge Sound. Neither Dry Top nor Silverwastes had them. I don’t think there’s any evidence that Hearts were ever considered seriously for the Heart of Maguuma, let alone Bloodstone Fen.
I liked completing hearts when the game came out. They were an interesting way to level up, explore maps, and learn the lore (sometimes). But after 4 years, they are just one more “chore” to complete a map. I prefer the freedom offered by the current design.
That said, if ANet adds new starter zones (even though I can’t imagine why), I’d hope that those zones would include some hearts.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Hearts are the last thing I miss.
No one’s talked about the advantages of hearts? No one? Okay… here goes.
One of the main advantages is that they’re persistent. They’re always located in one area, so you can keep working towards an objective. They don’t replace timed events either, and in some cases doing events benefits your heart objectives too!
They count towards map completion. It gives you more reason to explore the area outside of just passing through, and encourages players to gather in certain areas to complete them. Areas with hearts are often hotzones of activity for players.
As someone rightly pointed out earlier, heart events aren’t found in level 80 zones in Tyria. Honestly, I don’t see that changing for the Maguuma either. My goal here isn’t to suggest they should be added, but offer an interesting counterpoint to the hate that heart events seem to get.
Even if you hate them, you can’t deny they have their advantages.
One of the main advantages is that they’re persistent. They’re always located in one area, so you can keep working towards an objective. They don’t replace timed events either, and in some cases doing events benefits your heart objectives too!
As an event, they are persistent up to the point you complete it, then they become window dressing… forever. A frequently spawning event achieves the same purpose without the finality of completing a heart.
They count towards map completion. It gives you more reason to explore the area outside of just passing through, and encourages players to gather in certain areas to complete them. Areas with hearts are often hotzones of activity for players.
There are plenty of other incentives to encourage exploration… vistas, POIs, HPs. Also event chains and story quests often make you travel through a map. And I wouldn’t describe hearts as a hotzone for players to congregate. Most players congregate around events, e.g. waiting for Teq, or bank/crafting hubs. It’s just a coincidence that a heart is in the area… there are plenty of lonely hearts (pun intended) out there.
As someone rightly pointed out earlier, heart events aren’t found in level 80 zones in Tyria. Honestly, I don’t see that changing for the Maguuma either. My goal here isn’t to suggest they should be added, but offer an interesting counterpoint to the hate that heart events seem to get.
I think Anet’s goal with hearts in the sub-80 zones is to make players realize it’s actually the dynamic events that are interesting. By the time you reach the 80 zones, they trust you’ve learned the lesson and have the initiative to go find said events.
I know everyone is going to disagree with me on this but I have to say my peace
removing hearts from HOTs was the biggest mistake by far on so many levels. I really miss them as they were good solo play while waiting for events
I don’t want to play HOT cos they aren’t in it
Just wondering: can I assume you also don’t play the 3 Orr maps, or Dry Top and Silverwastes? Does this mean you stay away from all 100% lvl 80 maps? Because, like many have said before, those maps never had hearts to begin with. And that’s been 4 years by now.
And what do you do once you have world completion on a character? Create a new one and go for the hearts again, and again, and again, and again? I’m not trying to be smart here. I am genuinely wondering, since you imply that you don’t want to play maps without hearts.
They count towards map completion. It gives you more reason to explore the area outside of just passing through, and encourages players to gather in certain areas to complete them.
If you need the extra prodding from a heart to go explore did you really want to explore in the first place? If someone wants to explore why does there need to be an additional excuse?
Areas with hearts are often hotzones of activity for players.
Only initially. Once most people are done then it becomes a dead zone unless there are other things happening around it … like events.
Instead we have adventures, which is pretty much the same thing. Except more challenging, more rewarding and, more importantly, repeatable.
I would not say adventures are the same thing. Well, except for in the sense that some people like them and some people hate them with a wild passion. Oh, and I am in the second group.
Even if you hate them, you can’t deny they have their advantages.
I don’t hate them, I think they are a great feature… for starter zones. Dynamic events offer nearly all the same positives, except they aren’t persistent — and that I consider a feature, since the ‘persistent’ hearts disappear after completion, while dynamic events are available every day (at some point).
Thus, whatever advantages Hearts have, I’m glad none of the new maps have had them.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Can anyone explain why we can’t have both?
It seems odd to replace content instead of just adding more.
It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.
Can anyone explain why we can’t have both?
It seems odd to replace content instead of just adding more.
Nothing has been replaced. Level 80 maps simply don’t have hearts, they have dynamic events, something every single map in the game has (barring city maps, obviously). As you can read in previous replies, GW2 wasn’t supposed to have hearts in the first place, since they were a late addition to the game. Since most MMO’s have a very linear quest driven progression system and GW2 lacks that, it’s easy to understand how people can feel lost in a game with seemingly nothing to go to (points on a map do not count in that regard). Every other MMO I’ve played has a “talk to quest NPC → do quest → deliver results to quest NPC” progression system. Easy and simple, but very limited. That doesn’t work with GW2’s “play how you want” philosophy, since this game gives you a myriad of options to earn XP and level your characters. It’s one of the things that sets this game apart from many others in the genre. In that way heart quests are the crutch some people needed who were too entrenched in the traditional MMO level and exploration system. Consider them as static instead of dynamic events for the purpose of levelling your character. You don’t have to wait for them, they’re always there until you finish them, and they give good XP when you’re not level 80 yet. By the time you get to level 80 maps, they are no longer needed since you don’t need to level anymore. And by that time the principle of dynamic events should be clear to anyone.
Can anyone explain why we can’t have both?
It seems odd to replace content instead of just adding more.
I suspect that Anet’s research team determined that they weren’t necessary and would offer a poor return for the effort that it would take to create ‘em. They’ve gone the way of the dungeon, it seems.
It seems odd to replace content instead of just adding more.
What content was replaced? None of new maps ever had hearts.
Can anyone explain why we can’t have both?
We can have both; we don’t need both for the new maps.
ANet does a decent job of offering all sorts of content in this game and we each have our favorites, pet peeves, etc. ANet can’t accommodate all our preferences. All they can do is take their best guess as to what will draw people in and be fun for the long term. Sometimes they guess right (Bloodstone Fen) and sometimes they don’t (early HoT).
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
No one’s talked about the advantages of hearts? No one? Okay… here goes.
One of the main advantages is that they’re persistent. They’re always located in one area, so you can keep working towards an objective. They don’t replace timed events either, and in some cases doing events benefits your heart objectives too!
They count towards map completion. It gives you more reason to explore the area outside of just passing through, and encourages players to gather in certain areas to complete them. Areas with hearts are often hotzones of activity for players.
As someone rightly pointed out earlier, heart events aren’t found in level 80 zones in Tyria. Honestly, I don’t see that changing for the Maguuma either. My goal here isn’t to suggest they should be added, but offer an interesting counterpoint to the hate that heart events seem to get.
Even if you hate them, you can’t deny they have their advantages.
Almost all the advantages you listed are disadvantages from another point of view.
You say they’re persistent, but they’re really not, in the sense that once you finished them, they’re essentially meaningless. An event I can profit from over and over again, a heart I can profit from once per character. They create a heart that I can finish often in 2-3 minutes. Then I’m done with that heart.
They count toward map completion is not an advantage for many if not most of us. What you’re really saying is they’re REQUIRED for map completion. Means it takes longer to map complete. Sure your first map complete no one cares. The more map completes you do, the more annoying hearts end up becoming. This isn’t a plus.
Orr has no hearts but has hotbeds of player activity. We don’t need a static Heart to tell us plinx is up, which is a Hotbed of player activity. Outposts in VB are places where event chains spawn, we don’t need to beat hearts in them to have hotbeds of player activity. Meta events are also hotbeds of player activity. I’ve seen more people at the maw and fire ele than I’ve seen at any heart. So what are these hotbeds you’re talking about? In fact there are some hearts that disadvantage you by having players around because they don’t scale and there’s not enough to kill.
So I’m not sure what you listed that actually counts as an advantage, end stop.
I get nothing from hearts I can’t get better from a dynamic event.
Zones without hearts still have hotbeds of activity, but generally don’t require you to get every event to progess something, except maybe an achievement.
Hearts were ok. The first 3 or 4 or 5 times I did them on different characters. After that they were a chore and I’d just as soon not see another map with a bunch of hearts to do.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
ANet may give it to you.
No hearts have been added to the game in 4 years. XD
Considering you can get a character to 80 doing old school map completion (no tomes) just by thoroughly completing roughly 4-5 maps (including hearts, vistas, POIs, HPs and any events you come across), there’s really no point in having hearts on any map thats scaled above level 50.
Sorrows Furnace
[HaHa] Hazardous Hallucination
[HaHa] Hazardous Hallucination
I want hearts gone from the older maps, not more of them on the newer ones.
Hearts are blahhhh.. go here.. kill 50 of these… go here scrub a wall 25 times…. go here squish a rat 30 times… this is fun solo content?
While some hearts are fun, majority are not, and gating map completion is not fun for anybody. As other posters mentioned, Anet probably do not see much return on investing time in hearts.
I wouldn’t mind to see hearts back if they were: more interesting and having less of them. And perhaps repeatable? but ONLY if they were more interesting.
And no, adventures do not replace hearts, for a simple reason: ALL adventures are jumping puzzles or mini-games.
I wouldn’t mind to see hearts back if they were: more interesting and having less of them. And perhaps repeatable? but ONLY if they were more interesting.
Repeatable, more interesting hearts are called dynamic events — we already have them.
And no, adventures do not replace hearts, for a simple reason: ALL adventures are jumping puzzles or mini-games.
Dry Top, Silverwastes, and Bloodstone Fen have neither hearts nor adventures, so I doubt anyone thinks that adventures are “replacements” for hearts. They are their own thing.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Dry Top, Silverwastes, and Bloodstone Fen have neither hearts nor adventures, so I doubt anyone thinks that adventures are “replacements” for hearts. They are their own thing.
Don’t forget about the Orr maps… no hearts there, either. I remember the first time I entered the Straits of Devastation, and it blew me away that there were no hearts to do…
~EW
Nothing has been replaced.
Ahh ok, it sounded like they were there at first and had been taken out. I wasn’t here when HoT came out new.
It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.
Nothing has been replaced.
Ahh ok, it sounded like they were there at first and had been taken out. I wasn’t here when HoT came out new.
Nah. The rule in GW2 seems to be that all 100% level 80 maps do not have heart quests. A few exceptions are Straits of Devastation and Malchor’s Leap (not 100% level 80 maps, but considering the nature of the heart quests in other maps I doubt any of that going on in Orr or other dragon territory) and Frostgorge Sound, which is a lvl70-80 map. Heart quests seem to me to be tasks you perform for residents of the area. The only residents in dragon territories are their minions, and I doubt they’d ask you to fulfill their tasks for them (which would basically boil down to “please kill yourself so I don’t have to”). xD
The heart quests were quite fun for the first time, felt they were very poor to repeat tho.
On other note, ANet could have introduced “replay heart” function, which would be accessible through the Heart NPC which offer the option “do you want to replay this renown heart, this will not affect your map completition”.
Would make people who loved renown hearts happy.
I’m a casual PvE adventurer, I enjoy combat, adventure and helping, but not farming.
I rarely do PvP or Hard PvE, unless it’s organized.
I rarely do PvP or Hard PvE, unless it’s organized.
Personally I be happy to see Hearts return. The new maps are all a bit too much focused on the meta, and always rush rush rush to do the next thing in it. It’s becoming too much of a good thing. Some ongoing balance would be nice.
I wouldn’t mind to see hearts back if they were: more interesting and having less of them. And perhaps repeatable? but ONLY if they were more interesting.
Repeatable, more interesting hearts are called dynamic events — we already have them.
Certainly, but only in the new maps are they “more interesting”. In the old maps, they’re rare and randomly scattered, without a real incentive to do them (outside of exp and heart farming).
Dry Top, Silverwastes, and Bloodstone Fen have neither hearts nor adventures, so I doubt anyone thinks that adventures are “replacements” for hearts. They are their own thing.
The second poster in this thread thought they were replacements.
Weren’t Hearts shoehorned in pretty late in development because they didn’t have enough events? They wanted players to stick around at one place long enough so they are more likely to encounter an event. I think the HoT system with outposts is a much better approach, as Hearts are tedious. Also Outposts and events tell story much better, wouldn’t you agree?
Personally I be happy to see Hearts return. The new maps are all a bit too much focused on the meta, and always rush rush rush to do the next thing in it. It’s becoming too much of a good thing. Some ongoing balance would be nice.
I play the new maps exactly how I play the old maps. Most of the time I ignore the meta. There’s plenty of events to do on the new maps, whether you play the meta or not. I’m not sure Hearts would add anything to the mix.
Nothing has been replaced.
Ahh ok, it sounded like they were there at first and had been taken out. I wasn’t here when HoT came out new.
Nah. The rule in GW2 seems to be that all 100% level 80 maps do not have heart quests. A few exceptions are Straits of Devastation and Malchor’s Leap (not 100% level 80 maps, but considering the nature of the heart quests in other maps I doubt any of that going on in Orr or other dragon territory) and Frostgorge Sound, which is a lvl70-80 map. Heart quests seem to me to be tasks you perform for residents of the area. The only residents in dragon territories are their minions, and I doubt they’d ask you to fulfill their tasks for them (which would basically boil down to “please kill yourself so I don’t have to”). xD
Yeah I just misunderstood cause I hadn’t played for a year or two. I do like the hearts as such because they are reliable pve activities. What I mean with that is that they are activities that don’t have a timer on them so I can complete them at my leisure. Which is nice because I don’t always want to run the events which are on timers. That takes part of my freedom away because I want to do things when I want to do them, not when the game tells me to do it.
That’s just a big down side for me, particularly with the meta events: the game tells me when to do something. I want to decide that myself. That was the nice things about hearts, the original style jumping puzzles, vista’s etc. They are static things I can do on my terms and are also in the UI.
A lot of stuff is now done via the achievement panel I’ve noticed. Mastery points for example. I quite enjoyed getting the ones that are on the map. But the majority of them are via achievements. That just annoys me really. It’s starting to slow my progress as far as masteries are concerned and map completion in HoT just doesn’t mean much to me either. I can’t because I need more masteries to actually do that because some mastery points require other masteries etc.
So what HoT has really done as a big down side is take freedom away from the player about what you can do when and making masteries a requirement for map completion is part of that. I’m not sure why ArenaNet went it the direction of giving players less freedom. Stopping with the hearts seems symptomatic of that.
I can only hope they change their mind for the next expansion. I will never get those remaining 90-odd achievements and therefore I can’t complete maps…I mean just that one hero point thing where you need the highest unlock for this andrenal thing so you can avoid dying from the poison…I need too many points still for that one but it does mean I can’t complete a map. That just ruins map completion on a higher level cause you can’t complete it. I know the WvW thing was bad for people on low pop servers who never won but this isn’t a great situation either. Hearts were fine for me.
It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.
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