Guild Wars 2

I think it was a good idea to get the beta access and I will try again for the next because everyone who is actually playing the game got a chance to get beta access. If you didn’t get it but you did at least try it, you got at least some materials, gold and karma. I also didn’t get any beta access yet but I know there will be more betas coming and if I dont get inside any beta, HoT will come out anyways.

and btw do we already know when the portal stops to drop? They mentioned it could drop longer than a week if they didn’t reach the target yet:

“All events and creature drops in this area now have a small chance to drop a Portal to the Heart of Maguuma item that will qualify the player’s account for an upcoming Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns™ closed beta test. These drops will continue for a week or longer to collect a strong player base for the test.”

For a limited closed beta, I like this better than a straight “raffle” based on you signed up for the newsletter.

What people are forgetting is that this is a closed beta and not everyone is going to get one. RNG is RNG and that’s why some people have gotten multiple portals and others none.

There will be an open beta and I’m assuming everyone who currently has GW2 will get to try it.

I think it’s a good system from ArenaNet’s PoV – they are assured of getting people who are actively playing. Beats the newsletter thing.

70h farming and nothing… i hope anet say something about this…
PD: Never again…

Depends on what this beta will be about. I will laugh hysterically if people farmed silverwastes just to get a chance to farm some more in the new map and then lose everything they farmed because beta.

TPMN.1483:

This move by a net was one in my opinion of desperation.

They have designed hot based upon sw/Dt based upon these type of map mechanics…
Do events get a certain thing to kill and a day/night cycle (similar to sandstorm or breech event type basis). So they want people who are interested in these type of maps to test the beta and give favourable feedback on what they have done so far. (my feedback on playing the last beta was scathing as it’s honestly looking a truly grindy horror show). The idea of open world events/maps to be is horrific as there is very little control of bads to get a good outcome.

DTOP/SW were only populated as it was the fastest way for some players to get gold (chests) rather than actually be interested in the map. The RNG hooks of Coat boxs/ amber fossils have truly wore off for most people. If more gold making zones arrive these areas will die off even more !

The beta key drop was a player idea on the forum from someone who didn’t get. The email invite – RNG is a truly cruel mistress of giving anything out. Looked at it for 20 hrs in these maps and my hate for drot/silver pastes has only but increased as a result.
Do we like this method of access? No.

Does anet need favourable reviews of people who like dtop/sw as hot is based off this? Yes.

As opposed to maps that don’t do this and are nearly dead.

And speak for yourself. Do WE like this method? Maybe you don’t, but myself and others did. That doesn’t mean WE DID like it either. Some liked it. Others didnt.

Silerwastes and Drytop are more heavily populated than many(not all [perhaps., but many) of the other maps in the game even when beta ISNT going on, so don’t go around saying this was some desperate move on their part.

I think it was an experiment, for one. How else do people get into a limited beta? By RNG email.

So this time you had to do more than sign up for a mailing list. Wow, and that was some kind of crime? Perhaps they should have made the beta drop game wide instead of focused on maps, but it does make a kind of sense; finding the portal to head even deeper into maguuma.

But this method is a great way to make sure that ACTIVE players get into the beta.

Ash.5274:

Tbh, day after day after day of Silverwastes and Dry Top farming with no portal to show for it has drained me of pretty much all enthusiasm for getting into the beta.

That said, I like the approach – it just needs tweaking. They should have made it 24 hrs (or even 48, to cut down on the inevitable qq) with a much higher drop rate for that 24 hr (or 48 hr) period. I think missing out wouldn’t hurt quite so much that way; as it is, I’m not even enjoying the content right now, I’m just grinding through it because there’s that stubborn part of me that won’t relinquish the slim hope that this time a portal will drop …

Or make it game wide, so people can play however they want and still get a key.

DoIKnowYou.3896:

Nope. I’ve done 23 SW runs and around 7-8 hours of Dry Top and NOTHING. Some people have spent 15 minutes and got one.

I had a friend of mine play for two weeks, got an abyssal dye AND a precursor, said the game was boring, and deleted his account before I had a chance to ask him for the precursor.

Had a friend come to help with the last boss in a dungeon, took so long we actually killed the boss seconds after he entered the dungeon, he never touched a thing. Yet, he got the final reward, and got a freakin named elite, a good one (don’t recall which) while the rest of us got crap.

It sucks, but it happens. Thing is, there is either/or RNG/grind in every mmo, so this doesn’t bother me.

Well, it bothers me a LITTLE, but not a whole lot. Luck is a fickle mistress.

I’ll add my two cents.

I think this was a brilliant idea… that needs some tweaking. For example, perhaps they could have made the beta drop game wide instead of just DT/SW… but then they probably would have had to lower the drop rate, but at least you wouldn’t have to grind on a map you may or may not like, you’d just play however you’d play anyway.

Or perhaps they could have done some kind of repeatable event, ala vinewrath, tequatl, etc, where each time ONE person in the group who earns at least a silver or something is guaranteed a beta key, then can’t get it again.

Or something. I think this was a good start, it just needs improving somehow.

Fowidner.6930:

I think it was a good idea to get the beta access and I will try again for the next because everyone who is actually playing the game got a chance to get beta access. If you didn’t get it but you did at least try it, you got at least some materials, gold and karma. I also didn’t get any beta access yet but I know there will be more betas coming and if I dont get inside any beta, HoT will come out anyways.

and btw do we already know when the portal stops to drop? They mentioned it could drop longer than a week if they didn’t reach the target yet:

“All events and creature drops in this area now have a small chance to drop a Portal to the Heart of Maguuma item that will qualify the player’s account for an upcoming Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns™ closed beta test. These drops will continue for a week or longer to collect a strong player base for the test.”

I’d like to know this as well.

Hell yea.

http://i.imgur.com/ExqnUIC.jpg

Ignoring the 5 portals, there’s thousands of champ bags and gear bags there to loot and more rolling in since that screen shot. It’s been fantastic with all the people coming out to a zone and trying for stuff. While some people find it frustrating, I really enjoy all the crazy amounts of people participating in activities.

No, i’d rather they just stick to emailing them out randomly.

It’s still random, except this time I wouldn’t be encouraged to waste my time grinding stale content.

im just surprised people would farm 60 hours or so for a chance to play beta for what 8 hours?

im a casual player so not even sure i will be able to log in on the day of the beta test. I go to SW for the gold/loot farm and to test some pve builds . Getting a portal was a mildly pleasant bonus.

Not sure what the best solution would have been in terms of awarding portals but i guess placing it as a drop from a level 80 mob would at least draw high level players. And maybe the low % drop idea was deliberate in that “on average” it should take a long time for it to drop and as such by default ANET will most likely end up with beta testers with a lot of time on their hands to play/test.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

No, i’d rather they just stick to emailing them out randomly.

It’s still random, except this time I wouldn’t be encouraged to waste my time grinding stale content.

This.

Astralporing.1957:

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

No, i’d rather they just stick to emailing them out randomly.

It’s still random, except this time I wouldn’t be encouraged to waste my time grinding stale content.

This.

I didn’t grind the content because I don’t have time to waste. It would have been nice to have a chance to get the portal.

timmyf.1490:

Astralporing.1957:

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

No, i’d rather they just stick to emailing them out randomly.

It’s still random, except this time I wouldn’t be encouraged to waste my time grinding stale content.

This.

I didn’t grind the content because I don’t have time to waste. It would have been nice to have a chance to get the portal.

You have a chance to get into it from signing up like everyone does.

Consider also the following. They put in a drop that favors a large time investment cause more time is more RNG chances (sure some will get it right away but most who got one or more have grinded a lot). Aren’t those the kind of people they want in beta? The kind who do have time to waste and will play and test it?

timmyf.1490:

I didn’t grind the content because I don’t have time to waste.

Then you don’t have time to waste on an unfinished closed beta expansion either.

Wait for the open beta.

No but I didn’t really participate this time. Excepting the very first day I’ve played no more than I usually do this last week, in fact probably a little less the last few days since no one was doing anything but farming SW, meaning I had no one to do any other content with.

Kodiak.3281:

timmyf.1490:

Astralporing.1957:

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

No, i’d rather they just stick to emailing them out randomly.

It’s still random, except this time I wouldn’t be encouraged to waste my time grinding stale content.

This.

I didn’t grind the content because I don’t have time to waste. It would have been nice to have a chance to get the portal.

You have a chance to get into it from signing up like everyone does.

Consider also the following. They put in a drop that favors a large time investment cause more time is more RNG chances (sure some will get it right away but most who got one or more have grinded a lot). Aren’t those the kind of people they want in beta? The kind who do have time to waste and will play and test it?

Let me be more clear: I don’t have an open-ended amount of time to throw at a task which could very well end in failure doing content I dislike.

I do have 3-4 hours a day to play GW2 which I would be willing to commit to beta testing HoT.

To your last point, you assume ArenaNet is actually testing content with a beta test and not (as most of the rest of us understand it) simply running a marketing event.

^ Why make it so limited if it was a marketing event?

I think this was a good idea but maybe have a RNG extreme fail safe.

• So you would still have a very small chance to drop the item; and
• You could buy it though currency or token system: in this case 5k or 10k crests would have done it.

This way fans have an honest chance to get in.

lordkrall.7241:

^ Why make it so limited if it was a marketing event?

Artificial scarcity. Come on, Krall, you can do better.

It would be a much better marketing event if they had 1 million players rather than 1000 however. Seeing as that would reach out to way more people with more people streaming and posting screenshots and youtube-videos and such.

lordkrall.7241:

It would be a much better marketing event if they had 1 million players rather than 1000 however. Seeing as that would reach out to way more people with more people streaming and posting screenshots and youtube-videos and such.

Not necessarily. By limiting the event, the perceived value of access is much higher. This generates hype. Then you allow access to the Open Beta by preordering.

Hype + Denial of Access + Time = Money

This is okay! It’s very smart marketing. But we really ought not pretend it’s anything else.

(To answer the follow-up question “if it’s just marketing, why do you care?” the answer is that I am hyped. You can recognize something is marketing while also being influenced by it.)

But limiting the event only really effects people that are already playing the game. Marketing usually don’t target people already using a product. Seeing as, well, they are already using it.

But then again, this discussion is rather pointless, seeing as you have already decided that it is completely impossible that ArenaNet actually uses these events as real betas.

lordkrall.7241:

But then again, this discussion is rather pointless, seeing as you have already decided that it is completely impossible that ArenaNet actually uses these events as real betas.

First time we agree! This discussion is pointless. That said, I haven’t decided it’s “completely impossible” they’re using the event as a real beta. It’s certainly a combination of things. But overall, they’ll be getting feedback on a MOSTLY FINISHED product.

If the product were still in a state where major changes could be made based on feedback, the event would also be under an NDA. That’s really the sign that it’s designed for hype, not real testing… there’s no NDA.

The real reason this conversation is pointless?

lordkrall.7241:

Marketing usually don’t target people already using a product. Seeing as, well, they are already using it.

You don’t understand marketing.

1) Heart of Thorns isn’t on sale, therefore nobody is using it. We are all potential customers, as are people not currently playing GW2.

2) Absolutely marketing targets people currently using a product. I won’t claim to be a marketing expert, I’m just an engineer, but the appropriate term on Wikipedia seems to be “relationship marketing.” I’d happily let somebody more knowledgeable on the topic correct me.

3) Hype is hype. If we’re talking about HoT, that leaks into the wider gaming press.

Enough of the rng, I am not playing games with rng. I am not in casino.

Biohazard.7523:

Enough of the rng, I am not playing games with rng. I am not in casino.

So.. what games do you play?

Yes. Even if it takes me 20+ hours again.

“got +40 hours of farming for portal and still got nothing i say NNNNNNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRR AAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNN”""""""""""!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!§ anet"

As a returning player I agree…I was excited when it started, and now totally sick of these two zones and the way events go on in them. Also…I saw people get up to 4 portals, while most of us (99.99999%) got nothing. I would rather they just give everyone who logged into those zones a shot and send me an email. invite if I got in. That would be a lot less disappointing than opening hundreds of chests with nothing but crappy bandit crests and silky sand.

Needs more Buddhism in this thread. “Desire leads to suffering.”

Greyfur.1082:

Yes. Even if it takes me 20+ hours again.

And if it takes you 20+ hours, and in exchange you will get nothing?

Astralporing.1957:

Greyfur.1082:

Yes. Even if it takes me 20+ hours again.

And if it takes you 20+ hours, and in exchange you will get nothing?

I would still be playing a game I like with friends I like.

Naevius.3185:

Needs more Buddhism in this thread. “Desire leads to suffering.”

Hehe this comment made my day.

But I prefer the Jedi version.

Naevius.3185:

Needs more Buddhism in this thread. “Desire leads to suffering.”

This made me lol. Well done, sir/ma’am.

I would give it a shot. I always go into these kinds of things with the mentality that I won’t get it, so I don’t put too much time or effort into it. If I get it I get it, if I don’t I don’t. I’m not going to get annoyed or upset if I don’t get it. It’s only a game after all.

timmyf.1490:

Kodiak.3281:

timmyf.1490:

Astralporing.1957:

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

No, i’d rather they just stick to emailing them out randomly.

It’s still random, except this time I wouldn’t be encouraged to waste my time grinding stale content.

This.

I didn’t grind the content because I don’t have time to waste. It would have been nice to have a chance to get the portal.

You have a chance to get into it from signing up like everyone does.

Consider also the following. They put in a drop that favors a large time investment cause more time is more RNG chances (sure some will get it right away but most who got one or more have grinded a lot). Aren’t those the kind of people they want in beta? The kind who do have time to waste and will play and test it?

Let me be more clear: I don’t have an open-ended amount of time to throw at a task which could very well end in failure doing content I dislike.

I do have 3-4 hours a day to play GW2 which I would be willing to commit to beta testing HoT.

To your last point, you assume ArenaNet is actually testing content with a beta test and not (as most of the rest of us understand it) simply running a marketing event.

And you assume they, what, don’t need to beta test? That its an already finished product or something and they are stringing us along?

Please. They need to beta test just like anyone else would need to. How you would decide that in this one instance a company somehow DOES’T need to beta test their new product is beyond me.

I’ve spent maybe 4-5 hours in Maguuma Wastes since the portals started dropping. I don’t see any need to farm, let alone grind. If I got one, great. If not, no biggie.

The first beta invite had random selections and so did this one. The difference to me is that this time I could influence my chances and last time I couldn’t — I think that’s great and I hope they do it again.

I also hope that people end up agreeing that it’s better to have some control (as we did) rather than none. Although I also hope that ANet mixes it up some: maybe portals, completely random, and also some sort of scavenger hunt (like Mawdrey, only not as involved or tedious).

I played SW a bit just because I needed to anyway.

Honestly it’s not a big deal for me getting into the beta, even though it’d be interesting. The only time trying out a beta is really important to me is when it’s a new game I’m not sure about buying. I’m adamant about try-before-you-buy. There are some garbage games out there that seem nice in the videos.

I already know I’m going to play HoT so getting into the beta to test things out and find some bugs would just be a surprising bonus.

I agree with the OP. IF, repeat IF, they go with this concept in the future, it should be ALL 80 zones, with higher chances on tougher encounters (i.e. SW would give higher chances with its scripted series, world bosses same, normal world drops less chance, etc.)

Heck, they could even give a small chance of looting one on farming materials. that way they get a much broader spectrum of playtypes to test the Beta. As it is, your most likely only going to get people who prefer (or tolerate) the scripted areas…and thus your going to bias your results. Your going to get a more favorable response to the scripted design, even though this may not be favored across the board…

funkyfuzz.9142:

I agree with the OP. IF, repeat IF, they go with this concept in the future, it should be ALL 80 zones, with higher chances on tougher encounters (i.e. SW would give higher chances with its scripted series, world bosses same, normal world drops less chance, etc.)

Heck, they could even give a small chance of looting one on farming materials. that way they get a much broader spectrum of playtypes to test the Beta. As it is, your most likely only going to get people who prefer (or tolerate) the scripted areas…and thus your going to bias your results. Your going to get a more favorable response to the scripted design, even though this may not be favored across the board…

There are some advantages to limiting where the beta portals drop:

- The beta is very likely to be in a small area of a new zone (Verdant Brink). Therefore they need players who are ok with playing for a long time in the same area.
- They need players who are determined to get into the beta, not some random lucky sole who got it from playing normally. They need players who are making at least some effort to get in. They do of course need some random (not so determined) players, but they have the newsletter for that.
- The Silverwastes and Dry Top have both been prototypes for the new HoT zones, so it makes sense to use those zones to ensure they have some testers that understand these kinds of zones well.
- By limiting it to a couple of zones they can keep a tighter control on how many testers are aquired using this method, by only needing to make slight adjustments to the drop rate. If it was in a much wider area, any small adjustment to drop rates would have a much bigger impact if more zones were included.

I knew this method would cause an outcry of frustrated players. But we must remember that the portals method of inviting players to the beta, is no less or more random than newsletter invites, and at the same time it allows Anet to increase the chances of a more focused group of players being brought into the beta.

Also, just because you didn’t get a portal doesn’t mean you won’t get in to beta. They are also inviting people signed up to the newsletter. They will be using both methods to invite people, not just the portals, and I think some people forget that. If portal drops was the only way they invited people, I would have an issue with it as well, but they aren’t. What they are doing is offering an extra chance to get in.

Rin.1046:

They need players who are determined to get into the beta, not some random lucky sole who got it from playing normally. They need players who are making at least some effort to get in. They do of course need some random (not so determined) players, but they have the newsletter for that.

If they want players who are determined, they’re going about it entirely the wrong way. As we’ve seen, folks who farmed 60-70 hours didn’t get a drop while I know a guy who got one on his first mob kill after the patch.

Random drop does not equal determined.

Instead of thinking about this from the perspective of “how can I justify this decision,” clear your mind and consider all the possibilities.

You are ArenaNet. You want to run a beta test of an upcoming game. You have a limited number of spots available and can’t invite everybody. How do you narrow your playerbase down?

There are plenty of options beyond “drop from two zones” or “newsletter.” I think an in-game item is INCREDIBLY clever, but they made some serious mistakes.

I’m dealing with this “too many options, must narrow down” thing right now with guild invites. I have a small number of spots available and about 3x as many applications. Sometimes your options are limited and you have to use stupid criteria. “This is stupid, but I need some way, and this will work.”

My guess is that ArenaNet recognized this would benefit some players and upset others, but they felt like it was the best option given the constraints and time available to build a system. (I suggested a token system elsewhere that is cool but probably out of scope for the manhours available.)

Anyway, just some thoughts.

timmyf.1490:

If they want players who are determined, they’re going about it entirely the wrong way. As we’ve seen, folks who farmed 60-70 hours didn’t get a drop while I know a guy who got one on his first mob kill after the patch.

Random drop does not equal determined.

There will of course be the lucky few, but many will have needed to farm SW/DT for a good few hours before getting one. That takes a certain amount of determination. It also takes a certain amount of determination to go into these zones with the understanding it will likely be a rare drop and therefore require some hours farming.

My point was that by reducing the number of zones the item drops from, you increase the likelihood that the players getting the drops are more determined to get in. By increasing the number of zones the item drops from, you also increase the likelihood of more random (lucky) players getting the drops, because you will have more people farming in more zones and you will also have more lucky players who are not trying to get the drops but just happen to be doing stuff in those zones anyway.

More zones = more non-portal farmers. Less zones = fewer non-portal farmers. Remember, the portal invite method is not meant to replace the email invites, it is meant to compliment it, and I believe it is meant to focus the types of players that get invited at the same time.

timmyf.1490:

I suggested a token system elsewhere that is cool but probably out of scope for the manhours available.

A token idea is ok, but then you run the risk of upsetting the time constrained players. If the tokens required too many hours to acquire, those who cannot put in enough hours will not be happy, and those players are more likely to be the ones who spend money on gems. Should the time limited players be punished this way? Even random drops can work against the time limited players, but at least it still gives them a chance of getting the drop within the time they can spare. It is the fairer option of the two in my opinion.

The portal system is not a bad system. It would be if it was the only system, but its not. The only problem with it is that it can easily be perceived in a negatove way, which is what has happened. But then any system you conceive will anger someone. The important thing is that the system achieves what Anet wants it to, even if some players dislike it.

People need to stop looking at the portal drops as if they are the only chance for them to get into the beta. It is merely an EXTRA chance to get in, on top of the normal random chance from subscribing to the newsletter. When I see complaints about the portals, all I see is people complaining about an extra chance to get into the beta, which seems a bit daft to me. I can understand why people are getting frustrated, but I do not think they have a right to complain.

Rin.1046:

A token idea is ok, but then you run the risk of upsetting the time constrained players. If the tokens required too many hours to acquire, those who cannot put in enough hours will not be happy, and those players are more likely to be the ones who spend money on gems.

I don’t feel like rehashing it here, but the system I was suggesting took your AP, WvW rank, PvP rank, certain achievements (like completing Living Story, HoM points as a nod to GW1 players, etc) and assigned tokens for it.

You would still be able to farm tokens (higher droprate, more required, so you have a better idea of your progress.)

The idea was that long-term players who put in a lot of time into the game over the past 3 years wouldn’t have to farm, but newer, committed players could still get in.

This was (of course) immediately lambasted as me wanting me to get a portal me me me me me. I gave up because there is no hope here.

timmyf.1490:

I don’t feel like rehashing it here, but the system I was suggesting took your AP, WvW rank, PvP rank, certain achievements (like completing Living Story, HoM points as a nod to GW1 players, etc) and assigned tokens for it.

You would still be able to farm tokens (higher droprate, more required, so you have a better idea of your progress.)

The idea was that long-term players who put in a lot of time into the game over the past 3 years wouldn’t have to farm, but newer, committed players could still get in.

Ok, I can see how that would work. But like you said, that would need developement and might not be something Anet would want to put time and effort in, especially when a random system can do what they want. Also, they would need to make sure it was balanced in a way so players who could not spend a lot of time, but spent a lot of money on gems, did not lose out with this system.

I think whatever system you create, you will always have the time spent vs the money spent arguement. Whatever system you design for players that have time to play, will have an advantage over players who spend money rather than time. Even the portal system favours those with more time, to a small degree. But I think the random drop method is a fair compromise, even if it does create frustration. And at least it is (for the most part) unbiased.

I think the major problem is that you can do all these things simultaneously:

• See the need for a particular system
• Understand the way it was designed
• Dislike particular design choices
• Express your dislike for those choices
• Still be a reasonable thinking human being

It’s tiring to try to critique a design and provide alternatives only to face death by a thousand picked nits… or rampant hyperbole.