Guild Wars 2

Merely my prediction:

1.Wurm: Mordremoth
2. Marionette: Primordus

1.Wurm:
“There’s a rumble in the jungle”
“Great Jungle Wurm”

2. Marionette:
-Thumpers, and “dragon-energy” technology
-marionette on chains to be lowered into the depths.

To continue the thread throughout the living story:
1.Nightmare Court: Jungle
2.Thumpers: Primordus
1.Tequatl: Jungle
1.Twilight: Jungle

The Metronome:
2. “Thump, thump, time to jump… There’s a secret deep below to find… A fire is rising…”

From news:
" ‘I will interpret both of your statements as ’Expansion incoming’. ~Tilion
Lewis B ‘Oh not at all. Better than that!’ "

Thoughts?

I’ve been thinking about this combination as well. I’m just not sure at all how or why Scarlet is bringing those specific ones out.

I see nothing to relate to Primordus still. I think all of you are just dragon-deprived.

Or is it “good story deprived.”

I haven’t been able to be in-game much, but if you compare the Metranome to the earlier “poem” by Scarlet, it was really a bunch of nonesense that was about a terrorist attack and bombs. This one? Likely just taunting a proclamation going “those probes are mine and we’re searching below!” The rest? Generic threats.

I also see nothing to relate Tequatl or Scarlet’s actions in Twilight Arbor to be related to Mordremoth.

And with the Marionette tied to Primordus… again not seeing it. And lowered into the Depths? Lowered how? It’s lowered onto a platform, not into some giant hole which would be needed (and why a giant thing into underground tunnels? Makes little sense to me but eh, Scarlet’s insane so…).

Requiem.8769:

Merely my prediction:

1.Wurm: Mordremoth
2. Marionette: Primordus

1.Wurm:
“There’s a rumble in the jungle”
“Great Jungle Wurm”

2. Marionette:
-Thumpers, and “dragon-energy” technology
-marionette on chains to be lowered into the depths.

To continue the thread throughout the living story:
1.Nightmare Court: Jungle
2.Thumpers: Primordus
1.Tequatl: Jungle
1.Twilight: Jungle

The Metronome:
2. “Thump, thump, time to jump… There’s a secret deep below to find… A fire is rising…”

From news:
" ‘I will interpret both of your statements as ’Expansion incoming’. ~Tilion
Lewis B ‘Oh not at all. Better than that!’ "

Thoughts?

I think you have it wrong here.

Tequatl is undead, He is a Zhaitan general or whatever

The Marionette is tech born Aetherblade stuff mixed with magic. Aetherblade is inconclusive as far as a dragon relationship is concerned. If there was an Air Dragon (Kralkatorrik?) , then I could see it. Maybe Scarlet’s Marionette is actually a defense being built to fight dragons and they are literally using good people (Heroes) to test it on. She is nuts afterall.

Wurms are jungle you are right. Wurms tunnel underground and might be the connection between the Jungle Dragon and Primordus. The thumpers are to drive the wurms to the topsoil, but why? What do Wurms have to do with burning Tyria?
Maybe Scarlet is using them to make tunnels, giving Destroyers a direct path to the surface.

Destroyers are tied to Primordus as would be Flame Shamans who seem to worship Destroyers/Primordus.

It almost looks like there are three dragons involved with this.

Kralkatorrik (crystal and Aetherblade tech/magic)
Mordremoth the Jungle Dragon who seems to birth the Sylvaris directly. Wurms and Nightmare Court
Primordus the fire dragon. Flame Legion, Destroyers, Fire, Underground.

Tyrantis.8640:

The thumpers are to drive the wurms to the topsoil, but why? What do Wurms have to do with burning Tyria?

Wrong. The wurms’ appearance is just an unintended side-effect. We don’t yet know what the thumpers are meant to do. But they’re called energy probes – so they’re likely looking for energy.

Tyrantis.8640:

Destroyers are tied to Primordus as would be Flame Shamans who seem to worship Destroyers/Primordus.

Worshiped* Past tense. They haven’t worshiped the destroyers since 1078 AE – nearly 250 years ago.

Tyrantis.8640:

Kralkatorrik (crystal and Aetherblade tech/magic)
Mordremoth the Jungle Dragon who seems to birth the Sylvaris directly. Wurms and Nightmare Court
Primordus the fire dragon. Flame Legion, Destroyers, Fire, Underground.

Nothing relates Kralkatorrik – who is not some air dragon – to the Aetherblades. Nothing truly indicates beyond player no-support fascination that Mordremoth has “birth the sylvari directly”. And there is no longer a tie between Primordus and the Flame Legion – as far as we know (I theorized there may be, with the Baelfire ritual, but there’s really nothing to seriously support such).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Tyrantis.8640:

The thumpers are to drive the wurms to the topsoil, but why? What do Wurms have to do with burning Tyria?

Wrong. The wurms’ appearance is just an unintended side-effect. We don’t yet know what the thumpers are meant to do. But they’re called energy probes – so they’re likely looking for energy.

Tyrantis.8640:

Destroyers are tied to Primordus as would be Flame Shamans who seem to worship Destroyers/Primordus.

Worshiped* Past tense. They haven’t worshiped the destroyers since 1078 AE – nearly 250 years ago.

Tyrantis.8640:

Kralkatorrik (crystal and Aetherblade tech/magic)
Mordremoth the Jungle Dragon who seems to birth the Sylvaris directly. Wurms and Nightmare Court
Primordus the fire dragon. Flame Legion, Destroyers, Fire, Underground.

Nothing relates Kralkatorrik – who is not some air dragon – to the Aetherblades. Nothing truly indicates beyond player no-support fascination that Mordremoth has “birth the sylvari directly”. And there is no longer a tie between Primordus and the Flame Legion – as far as we know (I theorized there may be, with the Baelfire ritual, but there’s really nothing to seriously support such).

Well one of the hints was thumpers are the same as footsteps drive worms to the top. That would make it seem intentional.

There are plenty of hints that the Pale Tree might be a sleeping dragon. Who else would the Jungle Dragon be? Pale tree is likely a fallen champ or Mordemoth themselves.

The Flame legion worshiped (past tense) as you say, but they still adore the power of fire. Even if they stopped worshiping "The Great Destroyer: it is likely that their magic exists because of Primordus whether they are tapping directly or indirectly.

Kralkatorrik I just threw that out there. There is no proof at all of that.

It was outright stated – in the same articles that compared them to footsteps – that it was an unintended side-effect. After all, I don’t think the intention of footsteps is to drive worms to the top. :P

The Pale Tree is a tree that was planted between 1072 and 1078 AE. The Elder Dragons were all around in 10,000 BE. It is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for the Pale Tree to be Mordremoth. And no, there is in fact zero evidence to support to claim that the Pale Tree is a champion of Mordremoth – fallen or not. There is evidence to support the Nightmare being tied to Mordremoth though, but not the Pale Tree. The best you can argue is by extension of the Nightmare (and thus Nightmare Court) possibly being tied to Mordremoth. But the Nightmare Court are also anti-Elde Dragon, so they most likely wouldn’t know of any influence if such exists. And it is also physically impossible for the Pale Tree to be a “fallen” champion because no purifying magic – something that is incredibly rare – was used on her in her upbringing. People often say “the Ventari Tablets did it just like Glint was broke from Kralkatorrik!” but these people forget two very important facts: 1) The tablet is not magical. It’s just a tablet. 2) Glint did not break free on her own accord, she was forced to undergo a ritual by the Forgotten, the ritual having been lost until after Zhaitan’s death. So no, it just isn’t possible for the Pale Tree to be tied to Mordremoth. And if ArenaNet alters their lore to make it so then they did an asspull just to satisfy players who want to play the bad guy (something they initially said they wouldn’t ever do).

The Flame Legion’s magic never relied on the destroyers. They literally called them gods for a good amount of a few weeks or months at best. They surfaced in 1078 AE, and they were no longer worshiped the same year.

The OP is right, there are 2 Dragons painted in Scarlet’s Lair, one white and one red. The design of Mordremoth looks exactly like the toxic hybrid that we fought in the Nightmare Tower, and she made an alliance with the nightmare court and the kraits who worship a prophet that will rise from below. She also made an alliance, the Molten with Dredges and Flame Legion, and we know that the Flame Legion planned to control destroyers in order to gain power, yet the destroyers lives near the Dredges. We also see in the lair a mysterious plant that you can find in Southsun Cove, near the karkas new living home. So there’s no doubt that Primordius and Mordremoth are going to be awaken, but a conflict between them will maybe happen and then maybe trigger a war. The last hint is the sylvari personal story at the very beggining, you actually fight an unknown dragon champion in a devastated place alone, and the sylvaris thought that was Zhaitan, yet it’s not.

Amineo.8951:

The OP is right, there are 2 Dragons painted in Scarlet’s Lair, one white and one red. The design of Mordremoth looks exactly like the toxic hybrid that we fought in the Nightmare Tower, and she made an alliance with the nightmare court and the kraits who worship a prophet that will rise from below. She also made an alliance, the Molten with Dredges and Flame Legion, and we know that the Flame Legion planned to control destroyers in order to gain power, yet the destroyers lives near the Dredges. We also see in the lair a mysterious plant that you can find in Southsun Cove, near the karkas new living home. So there’s no doubt that Primordius and Mordremoth are going to be awaken, but a conflict between them will maybe happen and then maybe trigger a war. The last hint is the sylvari personal story at the very beggining, you actually fight an unknown dragon champion in a devastated place alone, and the sylvaris thought that was Zhaitan, yet it’s not.

The white dragon is Jormag and I thought that Red was Primordus because the optional colors available here:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jungle_dragon

“The Infinite Coil Reactor, where the Inquest are attempting to harness Elder Dragon energies (among other things), is built in a hexagonal structure with six corners, each containing a “zone”: Black, Red, Violet, White, Blue, and Green. Four of the zones (Black, Red, Violet, and White) are known to correspond to Elder Dragons, containing dragon minions, and the under-construction Zone Blue, although empty, contains a pool and occasional idle dialogue implies that it is intended to house a captured minion of the deep sea dragon. Zone Green has a nature theme, including poisonous Death Blossoms, but is otherwise empty."

So if Scarlet is pointing to a White and Red dragon. Perhaps this is Jormag and Primordus.

Maybe she is trying to drive Primordus to the top and actually for her and Jormag to fight? Scarlet might be destroying to save everything which is what crazy people do.

The metronome alludes to a secret under the ground. Primordius is hardly a secret. There’s an entire race of dwarves underground fighting him. Destroyers are common in Kessex Hills and other locations.

The speculation that the grove is a converted dragon champion like Glint is interesting though.

Amineo.8951:

The OP is right, there are 2 Dragons painted in Scarlet’s Lair, one white and one red. The design of Mordremoth looks exactly like the toxic hybrid that we fought in the Nightmare Tower,…

Where is this design of Mordremoth that you speak of?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It was outright stated – in the same articles that compared them to footsteps – that it was an unintended side-effect. After all, I don’t think the intention of footsteps is to drive worms to the top. :P

The Pale Tree is a tree that was planted between 1072 and 1078 AE. The Elder Dragons were all around in 10,000 BE. It is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for the Pale Tree to be Mordremoth. And no, there is in fact zero evidence to support to claim that the Pale Tree is a champion of Mordremoth – fallen or not. There is evidence to support the Nightmare being tied to Mordremoth though, but not the Pale Tree. The best you can argue is by extension of the Nightmare (and thus Nightmare Court) possibly being tied to Mordremoth. But the Nightmare Court are also anti-Elde Dragon, so they most likely wouldn’t know of any influence if such exists. And it is also physically impossible for the Pale Tree to be a “fallen” champion because no purifying magic – something that is incredibly rare – was used on her in her upbringing. People often say “the Ventari Tablets did it just like Glint was broke from Kralkatorrik!” but these people forget two very important facts: 1) The tablet is not magical. It’s just a tablet. 2) Glint did not break free on her own accord, she was forced to undergo a ritual by the Forgotten, the ritual having been lost until after Zhaitan’s death. So no, it just isn’t possible for the Pale Tree to be tied to Mordremoth. And if ArenaNet alters their lore to make it so then they did an asspull just to satisfy players who want to play the bad guy (something they initially said they wouldn’t ever do).

Please tell me how the tablets had any affect on the pale tree if no magic is involved.

How does a book you read hold effect over you? How does your teachers in classes hold effects over you?

The Pale Tree was sentient all her life, she lived for decades listening to Ventari preach his teachings, listening to him, learning from him. Ventari himself taught her – unknowingly – the same way a teacher teaches a student at school. When he died, he made the tablet with the main points of his teachings and like a faithful student, she took his teachings and protected them. And when she made the sylvari, she spread those teachings – via the Tablet – to her children like a mother teaching her baby.

There’s no need for magic. It’s no different than how we ourselves learn. The only magic involved is that which makes the Pale Tree sentient.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

How does a book you read hold effect over you? How does your teachers in classes hold effects over you?

The Pale Tree was sentient all her life, she lived for decades listening to Ventari preach his teachings, listening to him, learning from him. Ventari himself taught her – unknowingly – the same way a teacher teaches a student at school. When he died, he made the tablet with the main points of his teachings and like a faithful student, she took his teachings and protected them. And when she made the sylvari, she spread those teachings – via the Tablet – to her children like a mother teaching her baby.

There’s no need for magic. It’s no different than how we ourselves learn. The only magic involved is that which makes the Pale Tree sentient.

Let’s make sure I understand this. For many years Ventari tended to the tree and recited teachings to the tree.

How is this any different from a ritual? There is no difference, it is a ritual and it’s quite a powerful ritual at that. Consider the many differences between the Pale Trees sylvarii and Malyck. These differences are due entirely to Ventari’s and Ronan’s rituals.

DarcShriek.5829:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

How does a book you read hold effect over you? How does your teachers in classes hold effects over you?

The Pale Tree was sentient all her life, she lived for decades listening to Ventari preach his teachings, listening to him, learning from him. Ventari himself taught her – unknowingly – the same way a teacher teaches a student at school. When he died, he made the tablet with the main points of his teachings and like a faithful student, she took his teachings and protected them. And when she made the sylvari, she spread those teachings – via the Tablet – to her children like a mother teaching her baby.

There’s no need for magic. It’s no different than how we ourselves learn. The only magic involved is that which makes the Pale Tree sentient.

Let’s make sure I understand this. For many years Ventari tended to the tree and recited teachings to the tree.

How is this any different from a ritual? There is no difference, it is a ritual and it’s quite a powerful ritual at that. Consider the many differences between the Pale Trees sylvarii and Malyck. These differences are due entirely to Ventari’s and Ronan’s rituals.

sure, you can call it a ritual, but it’s no more “magic” than telling a skritt to steal the queen’s shinies over and over until he does it.

DarcShriek.5829:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

How does a book you read hold effect over you? How does your teachers in classes hold effects over you?

The Pale Tree was sentient all her life, she lived for decades listening to Ventari preach his teachings, listening to him, learning from him. Ventari himself taught her – unknowingly – the same way a teacher teaches a student at school. When he died, he made the tablet with the main points of his teachings and like a faithful student, she took his teachings and protected them. And when she made the sylvari, she spread those teachings – via the Tablet – to her children like a mother teaching her baby.

There’s no need for magic. It’s no different than how we ourselves learn. The only magic involved is that which makes the Pale Tree sentient.

Let’s make sure I understand this. For many years Ventari tended to the tree and recited teachings to the tree.

How is this any different from a ritual? There is no difference, it is a ritual and it’s quite a powerful ritual at that. Consider the many differences between the Pale Trees sylvarii and Malyck. These differences are due entirely to Ventari’s and Ronan’s rituals.

So your parents reading you bedtime stories is a ritual too?

Amineo.8951:

The OP is right, there are 2 Dragons painted in Scarlet’s Lair, one white and one red.

i’ve looked at every inch of that lair and i definitely didn’t see a white dragon. you sure you’re not looking at this post and misinterpreting it? ’cause the dragon in that post is red, the poster just edited it on photoshop to make the dragon more visible. you can even see how everything else looks distorted.

DarcShriek.5829:

Let’s make sure I understand this. For many years Ventari tended to the tree and recited teachings to the tree.

How is this any different from a ritual? There is no difference, it is a ritual and it’s quite a powerful ritual at that. Consider the many differences between the Pale Trees sylvarii and Malyck. These differences are due entirely to Ventari’s and Ronan’s rituals.

Teaching around the tree. Not to.

And it’s not a ritual in a fantasy setting sense where magic is involved, because there is no magic involved here. But the only thing known to free a dragon minion from its Elder Dragon’s control is a magical ritual. There is a very fine difference

It is a ritual in the definition of a repeated action. It is not a ritual in the sense of a magical act.

And I am in no way arguing that there’s no difference between the Pale Tree’s sylvari and Malyck, nor am I in no way arguing that such difference is not due to Ventari and Ronan’s actions.

What I am arguing against is the claim of the Pale Tree being the same entity as Mordremoth – or being a champion of Mordremoth.

Please, do not change the argument. Because now you’re saying I was arguing against something which is pretty kitten obvious and in no way a theory – and in no way what I was arguing against.

Mada.5319:

DarcShriek.5829:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

How does a book you read hold effect over you? How does your teachers in classes hold effects over you?

The Pale Tree was sentient all her life, she lived for decades listening to Ventari preach his teachings, listening to him, learning from him. Ventari himself taught her – unknowingly – the same way a teacher teaches a student at school. When he died, he made the tablet with the main points of his teachings and like a faithful student, she took his teachings and protected them. And when she made the sylvari, she spread those teachings – via the Tablet – to her children like a mother teaching her baby.

There’s no need for magic. It’s no different than how we ourselves learn. The only magic involved is that which makes the Pale Tree sentient.

Let’s make sure I understand this. For many years Ventari tended to the tree and recited teachings to the tree.

How is this any different from a ritual? There is no difference, it is a ritual and it’s quite a powerful ritual at that. Consider the many differences between the Pale Trees sylvarii and Malyck. These differences are due entirely to Ventari’s and Ronan’s rituals.

So your parents reading you bedtime stories is a ritual too?

Ventari didn’t just read bedtime stories. He tended the tree and taught the plant for many years. Your comparison of Ventari’s actions to parents reading bedtime stories to children is a weak analogy.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

DarcShriek.5829:

Let’s make sure I understand this. For many years Ventari tended to the tree and recited teachings to the tree.

How is this any different from a ritual? There is no difference, it is a ritual and it’s quite a powerful ritual at that. Consider the many differences between the Pale Trees sylvarii and Malyck. These differences are due entirely to Ventari’s and Ronan’s rituals.

Teaching around the tree. Not to.

And it’s not a ritual in a fantasy setting sense where magic is involved, because there is no magic involved here. But the only thing known to free a dragon minion from its Elder Dragon’s control is a magical ritual. There is a very fine difference

It is a ritual in the definition of a repeated action. It is not a ritual in the sense of a magical act.

And I am in no way arguing that there’s no difference between the Pale Tree’s sylvari and Malyck, nor am I in no way arguing that such difference is not due to Ventari and Ronan’s actions.

What I am arguing against is the claim of the Pale Tree being the same entity as Mordremoth – or being a champion of Mordremoth.

Please, do not change the argument. Because now you’re saying I was arguing against something which is pretty kitten obvious and in no way a theory – and in no way what I was arguing against.

No one would argue that Svanir is the same entity as Jormag, why would I argue that the pale tree is the same entity as Mordremoth? Where have I argue that the pale tree is the same entity as Mordremoth?

Why was the Pale Tree seed guarded? Obviously someone or something didn’t want them discovered too early. Why?

The speculation is valid and doesn’t need your approval.

DarcShriek.5829:

Mada.5319:

DarcShriek.5829:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

How does a book you read hold effect over you? How does your teachers in classes hold effects over you?

The Pale Tree was sentient all her life, she lived for decades listening to Ventari preach his teachings, listening to him, learning from him. Ventari himself taught her – unknowingly – the same way a teacher teaches a student at school. When he died, he made the tablet with the main points of his teachings and like a faithful student, she took his teachings and protected them. And when she made the sylvari, she spread those teachings – via the Tablet – to her children like a mother teaching her baby.

There’s no need for magic. It’s no different than how we ourselves learn. The only magic involved is that which makes the Pale Tree sentient.

Let’s make sure I understand this. For many years Ventari tended to the tree and recited teachings to the tree.

How is this any different from a ritual? There is no difference, it is a ritual and it’s quite a powerful ritual at that. Consider the many differences between the Pale Trees sylvarii and Malyck. These differences are due entirely to Ventari’s and Ronan’s rituals.

So your parents reading you bedtime stories is a ritual too?

Ventari didn’t just read bedtime stories. He tended the tree and taught the plant for many years. Your comparison of Ventari’s actions to parents reading bedtime stories to children is a weak analogy.

…your parents didn’t tend you and taught you for years?

DarcShriek.5829:

No one would argue that Svanir is the same entity as Jormag, why would I argue that the pale tree is the same entity as Mordremoth? Where have I argue that the pale tree is the same entity as Mordremoth?

Why was the Pale Tree seed guarded? Obviously someone or something didn’t want them discovered too early. Why?

The speculation is valid and doesn’t need your approval.

Do you even bloody kitten know what the kitten I was responding to when you criticized my post!?

Allow me to present it to you:

Tyrantis.8640:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Tyrantis.8640:

Kralkatorrik (crystal and Aetherblade tech/magic)
Mordremoth the Jungle Dragon who seems to birth the Sylvaris directly. Wurms and Nightmare Court
Primordus the fire dragon. Flame Legion, Destroyers, Fire, Underground.

Nothing relates Kralkatorrik – who is not some air dragon – to the Aetherblades. Nothing truly indicates beyond player no-support fascination that Mordremoth has “birth the sylvari directly”. And there is no longer a tie between Primordus and the Flame Legion – as far as we know (I theorized there may be, with the Baelfire ritual, but there’s really nothing to seriously support such).

Well one of the hints was thumpers are the same as footsteps drive worms to the top. That would make it seem intentional.

*There are plenty of hints that the Pale Tree might be a sleeping dragon. Who else would the Jungle Dragon be? Pale tree is likely a fallen champ or Mordemoth themselves. *

The Flame legion worshiped (past tense) as you say, but they still adore the power of fire. Even if they stopped worshiping "The Great Destroyer: it is likely that their magic exists because of Primordus whether they are tapping directly or indirectly.

Kralkatorrik I just threw that out there. There is no proof at all of that.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/2-Dragons-Primordus-Mordremoth/first#post3535821

Your second post in the thread, which quotes my immediate (no quoting) response to above post:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It was outright stated – in the same articles that compared them to footsteps – that it was an unintended side-effect. After all, I don’t think the intention of footsteps is to drive worms to the top. :P

The Pale Tree is a tree that was planted between 1072 and 1078 AE. The Elder Dragons were all around in 10,000 BE. It is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for the Pale Tree to be Mordremoth. And no, there is in fact zero evidence to support to claim that the Pale Tree is a champion of Mordremoth – fallen or not. There is evidence to support the Nightmare being tied to Mordremoth though, but not the Pale Tree. The best you can argue is by extension of the Nightmare (and thus Nightmare Court) possibly being tied to Mordremoth. But the Nightmare Court are also anti-Elde Dragon, so they most likely wouldn’t know of any influence if such exists. And it is also physically impossible for the Pale Tree to be a “fallen” champion because no purifying magic – something that is incredibly rare – was used on her in her upbringing. People often say “the Ventari Tablets did it just like Glint was broke from Kralkatorrik!” but these people forget two very important facts: 1) The tablet is not magical. It’s just a tablet. 2) Glint did not break free on her own accord, she was forced to undergo a ritual by the Forgotten, the ritual having been lost until after Zhaitan’s death. So no, it just isn’t possible for the Pale Tree to be tied to Mordremoth. And if ArenaNet alters their lore to make it so then they did an asspull just to satisfy players who want to play the bad guy (something they initially said they wouldn’t ever do).

Please tell me how the tablets had any affect on the pale tree if no magic is involved.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/2-Dragons-Primordus-Mordremoth/first#post3536184

You were DIRECTLY responding to a post of mine, which in turn was responding DIRECTLY to the claim that the Pale Tree – and I quote – “might be a sleeping dragon. Who else would the Jungle Dragon be? Pale tree is likely a fallen champ or Mordemoth themselves.”

So who would say that the Pale Tree is Mordremoth? The person I was responding to, which was the response you first responded to.

If you’re going to enter an argument, you should know both sides. Because now we’ve been arguing about jack and kitten.

I’m sorry if I seem a bit hostile but come on! I KNOW you read the posts I was responding to – you responded to it yourself! Just above your first response to me!