A Roleplayer's Questions On Lore (Spoilers Involved)

A Roleplayer's Questions On Lore (Spoilers Involved)

in Lore

Posted by: Freya Norgarde.4517

Freya Norgarde.4517

As the title dictates, this thread will most likely involve many spoilers regarding the later part of the story in the game. This is your last warning, so if you don’t want stuff ruined for you, do not continue to read.

1. How well do you feel the development of the Pact and its technology were handled in-game?

2. As part of the roleplay world, do you believe this kills the opportunity for guilds who want to attempt to create multiracial orders akin to the current three?

“That is not dead which can eternal lie,
and with strange aeons even death may die.”

A Roleplayer's Questions On Lore (Spoilers Involved)

in Lore

Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

These are more questions for roleplayers, rather than being “a roleplayer’s questions” :p

1) I felt it was mostly fine, perhaps a tad bit fast for all the “Pact technology” unless the Priory, Vigil, and/or Whispers were already working on them. Trahearne’s relation to the PC can easily feel rushed if you’re not a sylvari (and, tbh, I feel like GW2 is a sylvari-centric story – you get the most out of it if you’re a sylvari; at least the initial installment). One thing that has been bugging me: what’s with the giant thorn vines (sylvari magic) with the light blue veiny lights? That’s never explained as far as I can tell. It’s just “there” unlike the airships, helicopters, and submarines.

2) Not at all. The Pact is designed as an anti-Elder Dragon group featuring the three most prominant orders. Groups such as the Sentinels are left out, despite also being anti-Elder Dragons, just as groups like the Zaishen and Lionguard are, despite being multi-racial. It can create limitations, but these limitations – not being a major order – was imposed from the beginning if one were to stick to canon.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

A Roleplayer's Questions On Lore (Spoilers Involved)

in Lore

Posted by: Freya Norgarde.4517

Freya Norgarde.4517

The Pact tech appears to come from nowhere. There is no evidence of its existence at all until you walk into Straits of Devastation, where suddenly it’s there, fully formed, and fully operational as intended. The airships are a particularly big gripe with me, as again, they appear from nowhere. I would have at least liked to have seen some sort of story-only area perhaps where this stuff is being developed/built. As it stands now, you go from ‘We have no tech’ to ‘We have the best tech ever made.’

The blue veiny light things are a mixture of sylvari and asura knowledge, I imagine. Basically, humans seemed to design everything, with stylistic elements of everything in it, the Charr provide the raw materials (seeing as how it’s all metal and gears), the asura provide the power to make it go, the sylvari do uh…things with the stuff, and the Norn are the indispensable muscle. I guess.

As to my second question, it’s not so much an issue of who’s anti-dragon or being a major order, but more along the lines of if the Pact exists, why would you (in character) go join some other organization that isn’t the Pact, especially when the Pact gets results?

“That is not dead which can eternal lie,
and with strange aeons even death may die.”

A Roleplayer's Questions On Lore (Spoilers Involved)

in Lore

Posted by: Lutinz.6915

Lutinz.6915

NOTE: THIS MIGHT HAVE SOME VERY SMALL SPOILERS

Alot of Pact tech we see as evolved forms of things earlier in the game, utilising technology from various races. For example the airships and choppers are based of a charr design but modified with input and expertise from asura and human engineers. We see an early chopper prototype being work on by a charr in the Feilds of Ruin.

They certainly could have gone into more detail over the development of the tech but most can be linked to something earlier. The fortifcations seem to be a mix of charr, asura and sylvari. The sylvari grow thorn walls much earlier in the game to create quick fortifications. Why they are glowing blue is unknown but I suspect the asura developed a method of running some energy force through the vines to make them stronger or more potent against undead. The energy/barbed wire things at the top of walls was developed by an asura you can find resting in a jumping puzzle in Malchor’s Leap.

Later on we see a battlesuit created by combining Charr mechanical tech with asura power sources and weaponry and armored in Deldrimor steel which from memory the player can help a norn weaponsmith rediscover how to make in a early norn personal story.

We even see some repurposed stolen inquest tech and the fruits of the Durmond Priory’s study into Searing Cauldrons.

All that stuff has reference elsewhere and earlier in the game.

As for smaller guild orders in the Pact, I dont think the Pact excludes non order members from joining. Infact Trahearne isnt part of an order. We see non order Legion members get involved as well. Anyone who wants to fight the dragons co operatively seems open to join. There is nothing stopping you RPing that your guild is a small order adding its elite skills to the fight against Zhaitan. After all the PCs are the elite of the military forces.

A Roleplayer's Questions On Lore (Spoilers Involved)

in Lore

Posted by: Freya Norgarde.4517

Freya Norgarde.4517

We see an early chopper prototype being work on by a charr in the Feilds of Ruin.

There’s a big difference between going from a concept (what is seen in Fields of Ruin, which doesn’t even fly very long) and having a full-on, reliably functioning armada of the things. The airship technology seems to emerge out of thin air. It wouldn’t be quite so irritating to me if there were special story missions/places within zones where these things are shown as being developed or built. The combination of the different technologies to form the new Pact tech seems almost flawless. They don’t suffer reliability issues, problems with different kinds of technology being merged, reverse engineering problems, etc.

In regards to roleplaying less important guilds/orders, I didn’t say I wanted the group to work with the Pact. This is the crux of the argument, really. In lore, why would anyone be joining smaller guilds to combat the Elder Dragons, or for that matter, why would they join any of the Orders anymore? They’d just go join the Pact because the Pact now has the wonderful proven record of ’we’ve killed Zhaitan’.

The creation of the Pact just seems to happen too perfectly to be believable. One moment it doesn’t exist, the next it does, and there aren’t any tensions between its members whatsoever. Everyone plays happy nice with one another and gets on with the business of fighting dragons.

“That is not dead which can eternal lie,
and with strange aeons even death may die.”

A Roleplayer's Questions On Lore (Spoilers Involved)

in Lore

Posted by: Curuniel.4830

Curuniel.4830

Freya, I am part of a role-play guild which was (in our stories and in our heads, haha) very much founded on the idea of inter-racial co-operation. That doesn’t mean it has to be about fighting the dragons. Sure, the Elder Dragons are a pretty big threat and if you build up a substantial force, contributing to the fight would be a good thing to do. But the world is more than a fight against the Elder Dragons – you’ll notice that a lot of people in Tyria just plain ignore them for the most part.

It depends on the kind of guild you have in mind. Our guild, if it was involved with the dragons directly, would most likely work with the Pact I guess. But for everyday activity, we’re just a group of people doing whatever comes up.

The other alternative – just a suggestion, not everyone would like it – would be to situate your RP between the beginning and the end of the personal story. Let’s say Zhaitan’s still around, lurking. Let’s say the Pact is not yet a thing, or is new and being worked on. You could fill in the gaps of that development, imagine being part of the stuff that isn’t shown in the game. Just a thought… there’s no real answer with this stuff, haha.

A Roleplayer's Questions On Lore (Spoilers Involved)

in Lore

Posted by: Garenthal.1480

Garenthal.1480

I feel that GW2 suffers from the same issue that WoW did when it comes to technology, namely that a lot of strange and unusual devices are explained away under the excuse of being <insert race here> technology and yet don’t seem to be used as effectively as they should or could.

The setting seems to shift from being fantasy to steam-punk and back again for the sake of plot convenience. For example, if we’ve now got access to airships…why aren’t we creating a fleet to go to Cantha and Elona?

A Roleplayer's Questions On Lore (Spoilers Involved)

in Lore

Posted by: Curuniel.4830

Curuniel.4830

Cantha maybe, but Elona doesn’t sound like a place we’d want to visit right now :s Haha. A friend of mine has the same problem with magic in most settings – if we can do this, why do we have any number of these other things which could be replaced by magic? It’s the perils of fantasy I think, since we think of it as being vaguely like a historical period in our world, except changing the variables with something as versatile as magic would totally change what people would develop.

A Roleplayer's Questions On Lore (Spoilers Involved)

in Lore

Posted by: Lutinz.6915

Lutinz.6915

I feel that GW2 suffers from the same issue that WoW did when it comes to technology, namely that a lot of strange and unusual devices are explained away under the excuse of being <insert race here> technology and yet don’t seem to be used as effectively as they should or could.

The setting seems to shift from being fantasy to steam-punk and back again for the sake of plot convenience. For example, if we’ve now got access to airships…why aren’t we creating a fleet to go to Cantha and Elona?

Who is saying we wont.

Technology develops fast during war. The Pact, which by the way does have some internal tensions you can pick up from listening to background dialog and talking to NPCs, was formed from three groups whos members have dedicated their lives to defeating the dragons. It is a very strong uniting theme for them. It didnt come together easily either. The orders took some convincing even after Claw Island showed how the different orders strengths could work together.

The Pact also isnt a single organisation. Its an alliance. All its members are tied to another organisation or order contributing towards the Pact. Now any group wanting to go after the dragons would logically ally with the Pact simply because the Pact are the only ones who have successfully gotten close to an Elder Dragon. But in Orr you see the Pact working with human priests, Legion engineers and Asuran scientists who arent actually part of one of the main orders and even a group of pirates that are their for profit.

That is why a neutral Marshel not tied to any of the orders was important. If the Marshel had been from one of the orders, the other two probably wouldnt have been so happy with following along without complaint and conflict.

My point about the technology is that there are signs of its development earlier on in game. The actual construction of the tech was probably done by one of the nations supporting the pact. My money would be on the charr.

Most of the technology the Pact tech developed from was quite close to functional. The airships were already being developed by the charr. They are based of a charr blueprint. The only reason the chopper in the Feilds of Ruin didnt fly well was because its rear rotor was spinning the wrong way and undermining the vehicles stablity.

Compared to most fantasy settings, the development of the tech you see the Pact using has much more signs of development earlier in the game.

A Roleplayer's Questions On Lore (Spoilers Involved)

in Lore

Posted by: Freya Norgarde.4517

Freya Norgarde.4517

I’m…not entirely sure what game you’ve been playing.

First off, airship development isn’t seen…anywhere in the game from what I’ve seen. Even if there are blueprints for the airships somewhere, they still need to be shown as working on a prototype somewhere. A dry dock. Something. None of that exists anywhere in game. Then suddenly the Pact has a fleet of the darn things.

The choppers in Orr bear little resemblance to the prototype that was being worked on in Fields of Ruin as well. The helicopter in FoR looks more similar to what we think of in terms of helicopter. The choppers in Orr resemble auto-gyros, which is a different form of aircraft altogether.

Freya, I am part of a role-play guild which was (in our stories and in our heads, haha) very much founded on the idea of inter-racial co-operation. That doesn’t mean it has to be about fighting the dragons. Sure, the Elder Dragons are a pretty big threat and if you build up a substantial force, contributing to the fight would be a good thing to do. But the world is more than a fight against the Elder Dragons – you’ll notice that a lot of people in Tyria just plain ignore them for the most part.

The main issue with this is that there’s very little else that would cause an organization like this to be founded. Granted, there are mercantile groups where this would be a good idea, as is the case with Lion’s Arch. But if you aren’t really interested in forming a mercantile guild, rather something more akin to a military group, fighting the dragons is about all you’ve got. XD

“That is not dead which can eternal lie,
and with strange aeons even death may die.”

A Roleplayer's Questions On Lore (Spoilers Involved)

in Lore

Posted by: Pennry.9215

Pennry.9215

Freya, I’m not exactly sure what world you’ve been living in. As previously pointed out, tech development moves dang fast in times of war. Just look at how fast/far the real world’s tech developed in wars past. Not only have they shown us all the early stages, but they’ve also setup up the groups to adapt just as “perfect” as they have. Think a moment: All three major groups in The Pact are comprised of all the races AND have their enter-bickering thrown in your face at every turn. They’ve been stealing and plotting against each other for so long. Now they get to actually say “hey kitten, do it this way!” As pointed out when you adapt and create the prism cannon (ie C&C, nice one Anet ). The only point I really see as just “thrown in” is the orb you get from the Krait to suddenly be able to stop the dead from rising again and again. The Marshal (we call him “Tree kitten”) could use some more back story if you’re not Sylvari, as he seems to just suddenly show up as a replacement for your original (and much cooler) Order guide.

I haven’t played every race nor every class and I may never get that far, so I’m sure there’s even more thrown out there for us to piece together. And that’s the best part about this game: We get to actually explore and discover, rather than get hand-held and told every little detail.

Now to see how many “kitten” edits I get!

A Roleplayer's Questions On Lore (Spoilers Involved)

in Lore

Posted by: Freya Norgarde.4517

Freya Norgarde.4517

Freya, I’m not exactly sure what world you’ve been living in. As previously pointed out, tech development moves dang fast in times of war. Just look at how fast/far the real world’s tech developed in wars past. Not only have they shown us all the early stages, but they’ve also setup up the groups to adapt just as “perfect” as they have. Think a moment: All three major groups in The Pact are comprised of all the races AND have their enter-bickering thrown in your face at every turn. They’ve been stealing and plotting against each other for so long. Now they get to actually say “hey kitten, do it this way!” As pointed out when you adapt and create the prism cannon (ie C&C, nice one Anet ). The only point I really see as just “thrown in” is the orb you get from the Krait to suddenly be able to stop the dead from rising again and again. The Marshal (we call him “Tree kitten”) could use some more back story if you’re not Sylvari, as he seems to just suddenly show up as a replacement for your original (and much cooler) Order guide.

I haven’t played every race nor every class and I may never get that far, so I’m sure there’s even more thrown out there for us to piece together. And that’s the best part about this game: We get to actually explore and discover, rather than get hand-held and told every little detail.

Now to see how many “kitten” edits I get!

I’m well aware that tech development moves fairly quickly in wartime. But do you realize that even fast tech development in wartime tends to take years? As an example, the Manhattan Project was begun in 1939. They didn’t have a workable bomb until 1946. That’s 7 years of development. For ONE weapon.

I have seen no dry docks for constructing these airships (especially not the one you see in Arah Story Mode) playing through the stories I’ve done so far. My first runthrough was a human ranger, with the Vigil. The orb that stops the undead from rising up again? Introduced to me in the mission it’s used. I had no idea where it came from or what exactly it was for. Airships? Right there in Fort Trinity, with no explanation as to how any of that stuff was built or developed. I don’t even know what this prism cannon that you’re talking about is. I’m guessing that’s in some other storyline than the one I did. And the defense ’it’s in there somewhere’ isn’t really a defense for it in this case. Branching paths are great and all, but when some stories leave just about everything out, they need to be rewritten.

From my playthrough, and from what I’ve seen in the zones, none of this technology appears in its early stages at all. No airships, no giant mega laser cannons. Heck, they don’t even bother showing some sort of tests to see if the combined tech works the way it should. Even if it is done quickly, it doesn’t go from ‘I think this will work’ to ‘Finished product’ with no development whatsoever.

In addition, the ‘initial bickering’ seems to stop pretty quickly. After the story mission where you sort of establish that Trahearne can get the job done, there is no more tension amongst the groups. They all play super nice nice with one another.

“That is not dead which can eternal lie,
and with strange aeons even death may die.”

A Roleplayer's Questions On Lore (Spoilers Involved)

in Lore

Posted by: Lutinz.6915

Lutinz.6915

We have seen a fraction of charr territory. There are many places they could have been biult. Its most likely that the the Pact warmachines were built using industry of the supporting nations. Considering the amount of warmachines the charr pump out I somewhat doubt all of it comes from the Black Citadel.

Considering the tech we do see in Metrica Province Id say a Mega laser isnt a big jump. We have lighting cannons, force feilds and massive power relays. Also wasnt the Mega laser developed by the Asura Krewe in Sparkfly Fen? They were developing anti dragon weapons and we see the Mega Laser for the first time outside the front of their lab.

Also if you hang around you can pick up on quite alot of ambiant chatter between different order and race members that show tensions. You can also get more if you talk to NPCs around the place.

Also the formation of the Pact, to the invasion of Orr plays out over months in the timeline. You have Pact soldiers in Orr who talk about having been fighting in Orr for Months. Pact camps have been wiped out on several occations apparently.

Could they have done more? Probably but considering how game development flows I think they did a good job of showing technology adapt as we move south.