Guild Wars 2

Mordremoth’s champion is a Pale Tree, I’ve nicknamed her ‘Blood Thorn’.

From what little I know about Elder Dragon corruption, they take little to zero direct participation in their slaves’ initiation. Jormag’s champion, Drakkar, made Nornbear, Sons of Svanir are imbued with “Dragon’s” power and can corrupt by themselves, likely empowered by a Claw or perhaps lingering energies from Jormag’s initial attack. Zhaitan’s corruption seems to work like certain zombie infections, or like Jormag’s. Kralkatorrik’s Brand doesn’t seem to want to go away, it’s just scorched earth from a breath attack but the lingering energy can bend people to it’s master’s will.

I’ve heard about there being a second Pale Tree that’s only hinted at in-game, and reading the article about what Ceara saw in the Eternal Alchemy was the Pale Tree and a red briar attempting to choke her mother. Granted, the machine was tweaked so she didn’t lose her mind completely, the introduction of Aerin (accompanied by vines, speaking to an invisible, silent voice, also sylvari) and his circumstances made me reassess the notion that Mordremoth was corrupting them directly.

From Aerin’s journal, it seemed like he became Soundless, likely during/after his corruption. But why keep a journal as an agent of an Elder Dragon, like Ceara did before become Scarlet Briar. Clearly there were still vestiges of Aerin, Aerin, and not the Aerin we fight, liked to keep a journal, so it was only natural for this new Aerin to keep doing so out of habit (like Ceara after Scarlet).

What little I know about Soundless is that they’re still undeniably connected to their mother, they just dampen the connection through meditation. But if the Pale Tree so pleases, she can make them hear her.

So, a second Pale Tree, Blood Thorn, being as much a part of Tyria, like our own Pale Tree, that they are visible in the Eternal Alchemy, is corrupted by Mordremoth and presses her will on select Sylvari when she wants a specific task performed. Ceara, if I remember correctly, didn’t want much to do with her mother, making her susceptible to the Blood Thorn’s voice, especially when exposed to her direct, raw being. Aerin, what I’m guessing, heard the Blood Thorn’s whispers, which led him to think he wanted Soundless, only to be more directly controlled by his foster mother’s voice.

I feel like I missed something, but whatever. There some cracks you can spot? Contradictory flaw? Someone already make this theory/thread?

Well, it is implied that the second Pale Tree does not have/is not connected to the Sylvari Dream, which would make our Pale Tree unique and would sort of suggest that the other Pale Tree has no agency/voice like ours does – which would kind of poke holes in what you suggest. If there was another Tree that could exert influence over the Sylvari through the Dream then you would think our Sylvari and Pale Tree would be aware of its presence.

Actually, all indications point to Malyck’s tree having a Dream of its own, it’s just that it’s not connected to our own Dream. The thing that would make our Pale Tree unique would be the Ventari Tablet, but I can’t see how that would factor into any of these considerations.

Yeah, the Pale Tree has a physical avatar and gains knowledge and communicates with her children through the Dream, over which she has no direct control, and is only somewhat of a guide through it. The Dream itself originates in the Mists, so the Tree is simply a conduit. If your Blood Thorn is really like this, it would learn and communicate primarily through the same sort of Dream. It may not be the same dream as that of the Pale Tree, so the Dreams may not interfere as FlamingFoxx suggests. But the NPC Sylvari that we encounter that has not encountered the dream had no such thing. Therefore he seems to have had no real contact with his own tree, so I doubt that the Blood Thorn would be able to communicate with its children without severely freaking them out. Unless the NPC Sylvari is lying, in which case my comment goes directly out the window.

Leallax.1482:

Yeah, the Pale Tree has a physical avatar and gains knowledge and communicates with her children through the Dream, over which she has no direct control, and is only somewhat of a guide through it. The Dream itself originates in the Mists, so the Tree is simply a conduit. If your Blood Thorn is really like this, it would learn and communicate primarily through the same sort of Dream. It may not be the same dream as that of the Pale Tree, so the Dreams may not interfere as FlamingFoxx suggests. But the NPC Sylvari that we encounter that has not encountered the dream had no such thing. Therefore he seems to have had no real contact with his own tree, so I doubt that the Blood Thorn would be able to communicate with its children without severely freaking them out. Unless the NPC Sylvari is lying, in which case my comment goes directly out the window.

Being an Elder Dragon servant, do you think the Blood Thorn could “adopt” into her Dream with the power of dragon corruption? I felt like it went without saying in my initial post. Although, Sons of Svanir were only able to invade the Mists because they kept a Spirit Shaman on the brink of death with corrupted ice.

Boneheart.3561:

Leallax.1482:

Yeah, the Pale Tree has a physical avatar and gains knowledge and communicates with her children through the Dream, over which she has no direct control, and is only somewhat of a guide through it. The Dream itself originates in the Mists, so the Tree is simply a conduit. If your Blood Thorn is really like this, it would learn and communicate primarily through the same sort of Dream. It may not be the same dream as that of the Pale Tree, so the Dreams may not interfere as FlamingFoxx suggests. But the NPC Sylvari that we encounter that has not encountered the dream had no such thing. Therefore he seems to have had no real contact with his own tree, so I doubt that the Blood Thorn would be able to communicate with its children without severely freaking them out. Unless the NPC Sylvari is lying, in which case my comment goes directly out the window.

Being an Elder Dragon servant, do you think the Blood Thorn could “adopt” into her Dream with the power of dragon corruption? I felt like it went without saying in my initial post. Although, Sons of Svanir were only able to invade the Mists because they kept a Spirit Shaman on the brink of death with corrupted ice.

Perhaps, you have a point there. I’m assuming only with sylvari that came directly from Blood Thorn, though, as sylvari from the Pale Tree seem to have no knowledge or connection to the Dream of the Blood Thorn. If you are right and sylvari can be forcibly be corrupted by their mother tree (since even Soundless cannot block out the Dream or the voice of their tree completely), then I guess all sylvari players better watch out and hope the Pale Tree doesn’t get corrupted.

However I’m still on the fence about Pale Tree(s) being champion(s) of Mordy. Perhaps strongly tied, and due to their nature of being plants, of course sylvari are all going to be strongly influenced by him, but how are you supposed to fight a giant tree? Especially one like your Blood Thorn, who, if we’re to trust the words of that foreign Sylvari, doesn’t even have a physical avatar.

Leallax.1482:

Boneheart.3561:

Leallax.1482:

Yeah, the Pale Tree has a physical avatar and gains knowledge and communicates with her children through the Dream, over which she has no direct control, and is only somewhat of a guide through it. The Dream itself originates in the Mists, so the Tree is simply a conduit. If your Blood Thorn is really like this, it would learn and communicate primarily through the same sort of Dream. It may not be the same dream as that of the Pale Tree, so the Dreams may not interfere as FlamingFoxx suggests. But the NPC Sylvari that we encounter that has not encountered the dream had no such thing. Therefore he seems to have had no real contact with his own tree, so I doubt that the Blood Thorn would be able to communicate with its children without severely freaking them out. Unless the NPC Sylvari is lying, in which case my comment goes directly out the window.

Being an Elder Dragon servant, do you think the Blood Thorn could “adopt” into her Dream with the power of dragon corruption? I felt like it went without saying in my initial post. Although, Sons of Svanir were only able to invade the Mists because they kept a Spirit Shaman on the brink of death with corrupted ice.

Perhaps, you have a point there. I’m assuming only with sylvari that came directly from Blood Thorn, though, as sylvari from the Pale Tree seem to have no knowledge or connection to the Dream of the Blood Thorn. If you are right and sylvari can be forcibly be corrupted by their mother tree (since even Soundless cannot block out the Dream or the voice of their tree completely), then I guess all sylvari players better watch out and hope the Pale Tree doesn’t get corrupted.

However I’m still on the fence about Pale Tree(s) being champion(s) of Mordy. Perhaps strongly tied, and due to their nature of being plants, of course sylvari are all going to be strongly influenced by him, but how are you supposed to fight a giant tree? Especially one like your Blood Thorn, who, if we’re to trust the words of that foreign Sylvari, doesn’t even have a physical avatar.

Well so far, the only sylvari that I theorized were “adopted” by the Blood Thorn are dead. If she just wantonly started getting hormonal, that could cause her problems what with big splashes being noticeable. As for her own sylvari, at least the single one encountered, that does seem to poke a big hole in my theory. Malyck, right? He remembers his Tree’s Dream? If I’m to theorize the Blood Thorn is corrupted, it seems like it would have to have been recent, but before the game’s story started, and right as he ends up near us?

“How do we fight a giant tree (briar bush)?” Were you not here for Tower of Nightmares? I imagine, in this instance, there would be less poisoning and more fire, assuming we can keep ourselves from being eaten, or assaulted by concentrated, dragon corrupted, super sylvari.

Ahhh I was not around for the Tower of Nightmares. I’m curious if it would have any mobility because being a stationary tree would be a little problematic, as if it was laid siege to, with enough people, people could starve it of resources and wait it out, and it couldn’t escape if it wanted to.

Leallax.1482:

Ahhh I was not around for the Tower of Nightmares. I’m curious if it would have any mobility because being a stationary tree would be a little problematic, as if it was laid siege to, with enough people, people could starve it of resources and wait it out, and it couldn’t escape if it wanted to.

Well, what Ceara saw in the Eternal Alchemy (red briars wrapping around the Pale Tree), and what we’re seeing in-game, suggests the Blood Thorn could mobilize. That’s if these vines belong to her. They could be Mordremoth’s feeding on the magic, or using the Blood Thorn as a middleman, like the Mouth of Zhaitan.

Dragons have multiple champions.

From a gameplay perspective, a non sessile dragon champion is a bit boring. Can you imagine how a fight against such a champion would go? Stage 1: collect firewood, Stage 2: fire flaming arrows, Stage 3: break out the marshmallows.

At least the vines and roots we have seen so far have a little bit of mobility. And they’re not exactly inspiring enemies.

Wanderer.3248:

Dragons have multiple champions.

From a gameplay perspective, a non sessile dragon champion is a bit boring. Can you imagine how a fight against such a champion would go? Stage 1: collect firewood, Stage 2: fire flaming arrows, Stage 3: break out the marshmallows.

At least the vines and roots we have seen so far have a little bit of mobility. And they’re not exactly inspiring enemies.

Did I miss someone contesting Elder Dragon champion numbers?

I can imagine very well how a fight against a hostile pale tree would play out. Stage 1: Beat back her probing vines. Stage 2: Break through her metallic-like vine defenses. Stage 3: Survive the onslaught of dragon-corrupted, flesh-hungry, mega sylvari. Stage 4: Use Taimi’s explosives on strategic weak points of her structure, keep the vines from absconding with the explosives or mega sylvari from detonating them prematurely or else she’ll have time to repair herself. Stage 5: Boss???? Stage 6: Profit!

We’re at the edge of the Maguuma Wastes, and if the Blood Thorn is real this is the very entrance to her domain. These vines are an extremely small iceberg, above the surface.

OP gave the impression that there would only be one. I was just pointing out that Modremoths champions are likely to be many and varied.

Wanderer.3248:

OP gave the impression that there would only be one. I was just pointing out that Modremoths champions are likely to be many and varied.

Why mention, specifically, that she is one of his champions. We have not a word of the others’ existence

Wanderer.3248:

At least the vines and roots we have seen so far have a little bit of mobility. And they’re not exactly inspiring enemies.

There are thorn vines around Fort Salma at the waypoints. They got pretty far in this short time.