Guild Wars 2

Hi everyone, I was thinking about making a necromancer, and making him a norn. I was wondering that even with the stigma that necromancers are evil, is it possible to play as a good-aligned necromancer? I only know of one and that’s Havroun Weibe. Is there any others, and how would one go about playing a good necromancer?

What stigma? Some people in Tyria are wary of Necromancy itself, because its been used to do horrible things (Examples such as Zhaitan, Palawa Joko and Vizier Khilbron), but Necromancers themselves are definitely not inherently evil, in fact, theres more Necromancers in Tyria who are seen as heroes, than there are villains.

Necromancy is a tool to be used, no different to a sword, a dagger, or any other form of magic. It doesn’t need to define the character’s personality if you don’t want it to, so if you wanted, you could make a character who is the most morally correct character in the land, but also be a Necromancer.

The misconception that Necromancers are all automatically dark and evil is something that was birthed by the old-fashioned Dungeons and Dragons-style stuff, and a lot of those traditions do not apply in Tyrian lore.

by stigma, I was referring to an overall sense of the necromancer across different games.

Well, unless you’re speaking specifically about norn necromancers, Trahearne is a pretty prominent example- Killeen from Ghosts of Ascalon is another, and if you look back to GW1, the list expands massively. Narrowing it down to norn, though… the reason you see so few examples is not due to any inherent evil to the profession- as Argon said, in this setting, there isn’t one- but a result of having less prominent norn, compounded with norn having less spellcasters. For example, can you name any good norn elementalists?

It’s ok, I’ll wait.

That said, Weibe does offer some insight into one of the more common avenues- your necro could be a shaman, since they’re much more often spellcasters. Raven is the obvious choice, with his association with death, but I could also see a Snow Leopard shaman who uses curses out of the darkness to bring down her prey before they ever know she’s there. Wolf and Bear would be much harder sells, to my way of thinking.

There’s also the possibility that your ends up in a culture where magic is less uncommon- maybe the Lionguard, or the Durmand Priory. The caveat there is that it distances them from norn culture, which may not be what you’re aiming for here.

Lastly, don’t be afraid to play against type! Maybe you really just have a norn who likes to raise dead things in order to kill other things. Not everyone needs to conform to their race’s stereotypical image.

Once you’re past the concept, and to the actual playing- good isn’t different for necromancers than it is for warriors or rangers or barkeeps. Don’t do ‘bad’ things, do do ‘good’ things, and voila! you’re playing a good character. Some specific examples geared towards necromancers might be to not raise dead from the graveyards of friendly communities, or to not draw out the suffering of victims of your hexes, or to use your excess life force to heal the wounded, but the vast majority of the time, a good necromancer won’t play any different than a good anything else.

Lytro.9305:

by stigma, I was referring to an overall sense of the necromancer across different games.

This stigma does not carry over to GW2 except in player expectation, which given how there’s at least two prominent necromancer characters who are very much not evil, I doubt that such expectations would last long.

As for norn necromancers – well, you won’t see many necromancers in general because they’re one of the ‘less favored’ professions, but not due to being evil or the like but rather due to their dark nature, how some races view the ‘desecration’ of the dead to be insulting (mainly human and norn), and Zhaitan’s prominence.

In short: lack of necromancy is less of ’they’re evil’ and more of ‘death is disturbing, so those who work with death are disturbing’ (but this mindset isn’t common place in every race – sylvari, for example, see death perfectly normal and thus working with death being perfectly normal, which in lore makes them the race with the most necromancers proportionally speaking).

Beyond that, echo’ing what Aaron and Argon said.

Among humans especially, necromancers are often priests of Grenth, the benevolent god of death and patron of strict ethics who also is the son of Dwayna, goddess of life. These dark priests are typically considered a force for good among humans.
As it turns out, not everyone hates Hades.

Nox Lucis.8341:

As it turns out, not everyone hates Hades.

It makes me so sad whenever Hades is cast as the stereotypical villain when he was in fact probably the least villainous of the Olympians. Kidnapping the woman that would later be his wife aside (which wasn’t even evil, but romantic by greek standards) he never did anything to deserve the heat. I get all worked up thinking about it again!

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Nox Lucis.8341:

As it turns out, not everyone hates Hades.

It makes me so sad whenever Hades is cast as the stereotypical villain when he was in fact probably the least villainous of the Olympians. Kidnapping the woman that would later be his wife aside (which wasn’t even evil, but romantic by greek standards) he never did anything to deserve the heat. I get all worked up thinking about it again!

As Christianity has spread to new cultures, those cultures molded their beliefs and customs around their new found religion. This has lead to the use of older terms to describe a concept in Christianity. Terms such as Elysium, Valhalla, and Avalon have been used to refer to Christian Heaven. Likewise, Satan has been referred to as Mephistopheles, Draco, Pluto, and of course Hades. This is similar to the slow adaptation of Beowulf from pagan warrior to Christian hero as a product of changing cultural sentiments.

Edit: On that note, a hypothetical Christianized Kryta would likely refer to Satan as Abbadon. Additionally, they would likely continue to revere their old gods as angels or saints. They might claim that God sent Grenth to Egypt to claim the lives of the firstborn or that Balthazar drove a disgraced Adam and Eve out of Eden.

I’m aware of the cultural influence of christianity in the late antiquity and early middle ages. It bothers me that Hades is still the go-to bad guy in modern interpretations of classical myths. Atleast Age of Mythology made Poseidon the villain for a change. Man I need to play that game some time again.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

I’m aware of the cultural influence of christianity in the late antiquity and early middle ages. It bothers me that Hades is still the go-to bad guy in modern interpretations of classical myths. Atleast Age of Mythology made Poseidon the villain for a change. Man I need to play that game some time again.

Oh. I apologize for my condescending response.
Water casters can be scary, When they’re not drowning you with a globe of water around your head they’re ripping the cytoplasm out of your cells.
Seriously, why are death mages always the bad guys when you’ve got hydromancers drowning you, life mages mutating you, and mind mages rewriting your person?

Nox Lucis.8341:

Among humans especially, necromancers are often priests of Grenth, the benevolent god of death and patron of strict ethics who also is the son of Dwayna, goddess of life. These dark priests are typically considered a force for good among humans.
As it turns out, not everyone hates Hades.

Ha, I’ve seen somebody rping as a servant of Grenth (a warrior or guardian), collecting alms to help the poor. I found it interesting, if a bit unexpected (because I’d see Dwayna’s people doing a lot of that personally). edit: Coming from somebody who played a necromancer in GW1 and 2(human for both) and loves Grenth :P.

Also, about Norn. Here is another aspect you can consider, in terms of personal RP/story/headcanon etc. Patron spirit NOT being one of the main four. Like those that revere the hare/rabbit spirit outside of Hoelbrek. I’ve seen a number of Owl shamans (even though Owl is explicitly dead) wandering LA. An ascended item implies there was a Gorilla spirit, or perhaps the crafter thought there might have been one long ago. I recall an item that links to the Otter spirit vaguely.

Bouncing with that idea, it wouldn’t perhaps be a stretch to say perhaps this Norn necromancer reveres a Vulture spirit, using the dead and discarded?

Nox Lucis.8341:

Oh. I apologize for my condescending response.
Water casters can be scary, When they’re not drowning you with a globe of water around your head they’re ripping the cytoplasm out of your cells.
Seriously, why are death mages always the bad guys when you’ve got hydromancers drowning you, life mages mutating you, and mind mages rewriting your person?

No offense taken, you were just trying to educate. I guess it’s the concept of mortality that people are afraid of. And if you are afraid of it, it must be evil, or else you wouldn’t be afraid of it. It’s the fear of the unknown.
Come to think though, besides death and shadow related powers, fire is also often used as one of the powers villains command. Avatar: The Last Airbender comes to mind. It must have something to do with the depiction of Hell as fiery place. Afterall the other elements can be exactly as destrucive as fire, so that alone can’t be the reason.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Come to think though, besides death and shadow related powers, fire is also often used as one of the powers villains command. Avatar: The Last Airbender comes to mind. It must have something to do with the depiction of Hell as fiery place. Afterall the other elements can be exactly as destrucive as fire, so that alone can’t be the reason.

I think it’s more to do with fire being an innately destructive force. Water, air, earth etc. can all exist in peaceful states while fire will always be destroying and consuming by it’s very nature.

That’s true, but at the same time fire in small quantities can also be seen as peaceful. After all there are enough people who light candles for the sake of relaxing and sitting in front of a fireplace during the winter might be defining image of coziness.

As norns are all about exploring, creating, doing great deeds, all in the name of their legend, I could easily see a norn necromancer who pushes past the boundaries of death itself as s/he seeks to be first into the unknown.

I’ve taken to heart the lack of Tyrian stigma on necromancers and designed mine around that lack of moo-ah-hah-hah-blackhearted evil. I don’t have a norn one, but here are my three:

Human female — the cheerful woman of Grenth. Wears bright colors, helps run a family general store, has a lot of good plain common sense, loves people. As a child she saved a puppy from death and her parents found a Grenthian mentor for her who has set her all sorts of Karate Kid tasks to hone her individual approach to the study of the energies released in the transition from life to death. She ended up with a norn boyfriend and helped him say goodbye to a recently deceased uncle; she goes on hunts with him in the Shiverpeaks because he sure offers a good amount of transitions to study. She’d never accelerate someone to transition, though, unless in desperate self defense. She heals quite a bit thanks to her ability to move toxins around and is deeply philosophical and inventive when it comes to refining what she calls “the Grenth stuff.” She wore herself to a nub treating miasma victims after the attack on LA.

Sylvari female — Her area of expertise lies in rot and decay, especially in plants. She has done a meticulous years long study of fungal growth and plant decay systems with the intent of figuring out how to slow or reverse the effects. She long knew there would be an attack on Mother’s roots, and intended to be the savior when that happened. Alas, she was in LA when the Shadow of the Dragon struck, and has been dealing with a bitter sense of failure ever since. (I was so psyched by that attack, it played perfectly into my established RP which I had set up long before LS2 even started).

Asura male — He’s a throwaway character made so I could explore more Asura PS, but I did RP him a bit. He’s still not well developed. But he specializes in flesh reanimations for experimental purposes, using minions for remote exploration of dangerous areas as some asura use golems; he’s not averse to integrating magitech systems into the flesh in attempts to prolong the minions effective useful life span. He’s young and mostly unpublished so he dyes his hair white and uses his staff for support he doesn’t need in an attempt to seem older and wiser than he is (or maybe ever will be).

BuddhaKeks.4857:

That’s true, but at the same time fire in small quantities can also be seen as peaceful. After all there are enough people who light candles for the sake of relaxing and sitting in front of a fireplace during the winter might be defining image of coziness.

While small amounts of fire aren’t dangerous they are still destructive. Fire must consume fuel in order to exist. The candles and fireplace will eventually burn down and the candle or wood replaced.