Earlier today I was running through the Durmand Priory to Fort Trinity and I heard some dialogue I’ve heard several times ago, but today something clicked in my mind about it. Here is the dialogue:
Priory Novice (human): What brought you to the Priory?
Priory Novice (sylvari): In my Dream, I saw dragons, and a spire of light drove them off.
Priory Novice (human): You really think we can defeat them? Do you really believe we can reclaim our world?
Priory Novice (sylvari): Maybe, but there may be too much that even time cannot erase.
You can find these two (well, the sylvari patrols) near the ramp that leads to the refuge camp. Literally hidden by the thing. This has always been in the game, but it didn’t really trigger anything until recently. It’s the sylvari’s first line, about her Dream, that is most curious to me.
In Arah explorable, Forgotten path, the ritual to give a dragon minion free will results in pillars of light.
In Season 2’s final instance, divine fire – related to the Forgotten – causes the mordrem to flee.
Truthfully, ever since Season 2’s finale, I had been wondering about the nature of divine magic (held by the Six Gods and Forgotten – possibly what powers the Foefire and thus explaining why Foefire ghosts weren’t affected by Kralkatorrik or why Ghostfire burns risen and sylvari exceptionally well) and dragon corruption and how they seem incompatible to the point of immunity with each other (or rather, Forgotten magic is immune to dragon corruption, and divine fire causes harm to dragon minions).
If the Foefire is related to divine magic – and it resulted in a spire of light and white fire – and if the Forgotten ritual is powered by divine magic like Ascension…
Could this line be hinting at the conclusion of the Elder Dragon arc? Using the power of the gods (divine magic) to defeat the Elder Dragons for good?
I agree, but you can never be sure. Maybe the gods (human) are summoned and come back and that’s what this “spirit of light” is.
What is the source of Rytlock’s power? Isn’t it Foefire, or was it the mists?
What do the mists consist of?
Hurray, let`s recreate the foefire in some way, to have an army of divine fire soldiers…
So, does it mean we get a divine fire specialization? (It happens in every RPG at some point)
However, yeah. Divine Fire or whatever (they were kinda iffy in discribing it directly if I am not mistaken) will at least be the solution of the Mordremoth Arc.
I mean they hammered it in with the Shadow of the Dragon . The ascension divine fire will be our saviour against at least the little mordies.
What is the source of Rytlock’s power? Isn’t it Foefire, or was it the mists?
What do the mists consist of?
Was from the mists mainly, but we don’t have much details.
The mists is the oldest thing in existence, the proto-reality that exists between the worlds, constituting the fabric of time and space that connects the multiverse together.
Belzebu that is hardly a specific answer. If you want to see my take on the mists, (it is reading between the lines) go to the lore forum and look up the The Mists and Magic Theories. Please post your comments on if you agree or disagree with my theory there.
I find it rather interesting to look at the Sylvari to determine to what degree an elder dragon is evil and how this evilness is connected to the magic they are using. Sylvari are minions of Mordremoth and are using his magic. But clearly this magic alone isn’t evil in the slightest, given that the Pale Tree is a giant magic creature. It is also very interesting to think about how potent this magic is. The Pale Tree was able to show us the future, or atleast a possible future. Do elder dragons possess the same power? How does this translate into the story? (If Zhaitan was able to atleast loosely guess what will happen, how were we able to beat him?)
To come back to the question of this thread, the right question to answer could be this: If there are in general 6 types of magic, one for each dragon/resemebled by one dragon, is divine magic then a 7th type of magic? If we tie each dragon and their magic to one realm we have seen in Omad’s machine, is divine magic then the magic of the realm we live in, the realm which is currently the main realm because it possesses the most magic currently?
To come back to the question of this thread, the right question to answer could be this: If there are in general 6 types of magic, one for each dragon/resemebled by one dragon, is divine magic then a 7th type of magic? If we tie each dragon and their magic to one realm we have seen in Omad’s machine, is divine magic then the magic of the realm we live in, the realm which is currently the main realm because it possesses the most magic currently?
So i don’t have an answer for the first part, but for this part i think you’re missing something key. A lot of the different types of magics are based on elements. Jormag is Ice, zhaitan is death, mordremoth is life/nature, bubbles is water, kralk is crystal and primodus is fire/earth (or some combination thereof).
half of the dragons are elemental, which could be placed in a single category, with crystal arguably being an extention of earth with primordus only having fire, meaning 2/3rds of the dragons are elemental in nature. then leaving the duality that is life and death, which could arguably be linked, though in tyria you don’t see necromancers growing plants or rangers summoning the dead. In essence we’re looking at about 3-4 kinds of magic against approximately 4 kinds of magikittenil the introduction of the revenants. Rangers and guardians can fall under some sort of faith based magic, but it’s possible to separate the two. The thief seemingly draws heavy inspiration from mesmers in terms of their ability to go invisible (or vice versa, always possible), but also their ability to deceive their opponents which falls under the sphere of influence that is chaos magic. then there’s the elemental magic and then death magic.
i could also be completely wrong about all this so if i am feel free to ignore.
However, it’s been stated (somewhere, forgive me for not remembering) that the mists are a new kind of magic, the kind that the dragons havent been able to tap into, as the dragons can only absorb the magic of this world. with the mists being otherworldly in nature, they seem to be the key in defeating the dragons since that kind of magic can’t be drained. It is entirely possible however that divine magic (differentiated from the faith based magics mentioned in the spoilers) is another kind of magic that carries the impact of a jackhammer in comparison to the small crafting hammer that is mist magic.
I find it rather interesting to look at the Sylvari to determine to what degree an elder dragon is evil and how this evilness is connected to the magic they are using. Sylvari are minions of Mordremoth and are using his magic. But clearly this magic alone isn’t evil in the slightest, given that the Pale Tree is a giant magic creature.
I think looking at sylvari magic to Mordremoth’s magic; or in turn, Glint’s/Zephyrites’s magic to Kralkatorrik’s.
With the Dragonbrand, we see an eternal thunderstorm that blocks out the sky and strikes malevolently. The crystals are thickly colored; unclear. Glint/Zephyrite magic however shows clear skies and sunny days, but with rain and lightning as needed to allow life to grow; Glint’s crystals were clear, lacking imperfections.
Mordremoth’s plants are poisonous, thorned, and deadly. They choke the life out of other forms. Basically an invasive weed. Sylvari (non-Nightmare Court at least), however are more gentle-looking flowers, vines without thorns, and grow new life where there’s currently death (purification of Orr).
Same magic, but used in opposite means with opposite appearances. Malevolence versus benevolence.
The purpose of Elder Dragons don’t seem to be evil – especially if Ogden’s right in that Glint could have become one – but rather their intent.
It is also very interesting to think about how potent this magic is. The Pale Tree was able to show us the future, or atleast a possible future. Do elder dragons possess the same power? How does this translate into the story? (If Zhaitan was able to atleast loosely guess what will happen, how were we able to beat him?)
The Pale Tree’s ability to show a possibility of the future was tied to the Dream, which is how she’s also apparently protecting the sylvari (even Nightmare Courtiers) – Mordremoth has to slip through the loopholes of that protection, Wyld Hunts and Dark Hunts, in order to influence them.
So I don’t think anything related to the Dream is related to the Elder Dragons or their minions.
Glint’s ability of foresight and telepathy was also presented as unique and part of why she chose to aid the other races after being given free will. Given that Glint is hinted at being a corrupted being rather than a construct like the Shatterer, that means her ability was more natural to her pre-corruption, most likely.
To come back to the question of this thread, the right question to answer could be this: If there are in general 6 types of magic, one for each dragon/resemebled by one dragon, is divine magic then a 7th type of magic? If we tie each dragon and their magic to one realm we have seen in Omad’s machine, is divine magic then the magic of the realm we live in, the realm which is currently the main realm because it possesses the most magic currently?
I don’t think there’s 6 types of magic. For the following reasons:
However, it’s been stated (somewhere, forgive me for not remembering) that the mists are a new kind of magic, the kind that the dragons havent been able to tap into, as the dragons can only absorb the magic of this world.
The only thing related to the Elder Dragons and “new” stuff that they’re “not used to” would be sylvari, as a thought for why sylvari couldn’t be corrupted; however, this has been proven wrong.
The Mists certainly isn’t new – it’s the oldest thing ever – and as we see with Jormag, they can be corrupted it seems. During The Wolf Havroun Solvi is pinned by a spike of corrupted Mists essence.
The only thing related to the Elder Dragons and “new” stuff that they’re “not used to” would be sylvari, as a thought for why sylvari couldn’t be corrupted; however, this has been proven wrong.
The Mists certainly isn’t new – it’s the oldest thing ever – and as we see with Jormag, they can be corrupted it seems. During The Wolf Havroun Solvi is pinned by a spike of corrupted Mists essence.
Oh man, looks like i need to do a lot of brushing up on lore.
It will end with a vast grave yard with fog rolling through it.
The Pale Tree’s ability to show a possibility of the future was tied to the Dream, which is how she’s also apparently protecting the sylvari (even Nightmare Courtiers) – Mordremoth has to slip through the loopholes of that protection, Wyld Hunts and Dark Hunts, in order to influence them.
So I don’t think anything related to the Dream is related to the Elder Dragons or their minions.
Glint’s ability of foresight and telepathy was also presented as unique and part of why she chose to aid the other races after being given free will. Given that Glint is hinted at being a corrupted being rather than a construct like the Shatterer, that means her ability was more natural to her pre-corruption, most likely.
I think you are wrong here because it’s most likely that the Dream is created by Mordremoth.
We know that the Pale Tree is not creating the Dream, but merely guarding it (gotta have to look up where I read that, but I definitely did).
We know also that Elder Dragons in general know what their minions know (got mentioned multiple times during Personal Story)
So it stands to reason that all Elder Dragons have so sort of hive mind. The Dream would then be very likely the Mordremoth counterpart.
So the ability to look into the future yould very well come from Mordremoth.
My theory for a while now was that it was Melandru who created or repurposed the Dream and maybe even cleansed the Pale Tree’s seed.
We know Melandru went out into the world.
We know a group of worshipers moved to the area and became so devoted to nature that they literally became nature spirits.
We know the Forgotten, who were servants of the Gods and who’s magic had cleansed Glint, were in the area. A place no where near any other known settlement they had.
We know that the one Sylvari that knew of the true origin of the Sylvari, travelled to said place in her studies. We know that there was a tribe of centaur not only guarding the place but who had ties to Ventari who back in GW1 talked of a time when Centaur and Humans lived in peace. Plus Centaur practice a form of tree worship, sorta.
So my theory is that Melandru sought to protect nature from the time the Elder Dragons would rise again. To do that she called on her human and Forgotten followers. Her humans, the druids, ascended into spirit form as to help establish a spiritual ‘mist’ plane, perhaps even part of Melandru’s realm, where the spirit and minds of the natural world could be protected from the EDs corruption.
The Forgotten she intrusted to finding ways to cleanse nature of Dragon corruption. Perhaps she even found some of Mordremoth’s seeds and cleansed them. Do remember it was a human who found the Pale Tree’s seed. Perhaps that wasn’t completely accidental.
The Centaur she set up as caretakers of the forest as she and the Forgotten retreated from the world, they would tend to the works she had done, on a physical plane while the Druids tended to the spiritual.
My points for believing this are:
- the seeming connections between the centaur, the forgotten city and the Pale Tree (Season 2 Living Story).
- the fact there is a sylvari racial elite at the moment that literally summons aid from a druidic spirit.
- the fact we know Melandru went out into the world to ‘prepare it for a troubled future’ (The Scrolls on the Gods in Malchor’s Leap).
- the fact that the dream isn’t tied to the Sylvari as natural animals unrelated to the Pale Tree can have great influence over it (The White Stag Sylvari PS).
BrotherBelial.3094
It will end with a vast grave yard with fog rolling through it.
Perfect. Let’s just hope we get to meet all the dragons first.
I think you are wrong here because it’s most likely that the Dream is created by Mordremoth.
If the Dream was made by Mordremoth, it wouldn’t be serving as protection against Mordremoth:
Scott and Bobby recommend a playthrough of the story as a sylvari to experience the full psychological horror of Mordremoth’s power. The Elder Dragon can implant thoughts in its creations—thoughts they may even believe to be their own—and only a combination of immense willpower and the protection of the Pale Tree can prevent Mordremoth from taking control. Sylvari receive calls to action in the form of the Wyld Hunt—or the Dark Hunt, for Nightmare Courtiers—and these compulsions act as an access point for Mordremoth’s influence.
From: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/points-of-interest-episode-18-summary/
The Wyld Hunt and Dark Hunt are given by the Dream and Nightmare respectively; and Mordremoth uses this to bypass the direction. The Pale Tree is protecting the sylvari; Ogden during Hidden Arcana implies it deals with the Dream, and the Pale Tree indirectly makes mention specifically of the Dream’s stability after The World Summit; furthermore, the first sylvari (plural) to fall to Mordremoth did not have the protection of the Dream (Soundless or Soundless-like in the case of Scarlet).
We know also that Elder Dragons in general know what their minions know (got mentioned multiple times during Personal Story)
So it stands to reason that all Elder Dragons have so sort of hive mind. The Dream would then be very likely the Mordremoth counterpart.
So the ability to look into the future yould very well come from Mordremoth.
The Dream is NOT a hive mind. This was stressed out early on, and stated so in Ghosts of Ascalon. It is a collection of memories, yes, but not a hive mind. The two are very different.
I think you are wrong here because it’s most likely that the Dream is created by Mordremoth.
If the Dream was made by Mordremoth, it wouldn’t be serving as protection against Mordremoth:
Scott and Bobby recommend a playthrough of the story as a sylvari to experience the full psychological horror of Mordremoth’s power. The Elder Dragon can implant thoughts in its creations—thoughts they may even believe to be their own—and only a combination of immense willpower and the protection of the Pale Tree can prevent Mordremoth from taking control. Sylvari receive calls to action in the form of the Wyld Hunt—or the Dark Hunt, for Nightmare Courtiers—and these compulsions act as an access point for Mordremoth’s influence.
From: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/points-of-interest-episode-18-summary/
The Wyld Hunt and Dark Hunt are given by the Dream and Nightmare respectively; and Mordremoth uses this to bypass the direction. The Pale Tree is protecting the sylvari; Ogden during Hidden Arcana implies it deals with the Dream, and the Pale Tree indirectly makes mention specifically of the Dream’s stability after The World Summit; furthermore, the first sylvari (plural) to fall to Mordremoth did not have the protection of the Dream (Soundless or Soundless-like in the case of Scarlet).
We know also that Elder Dragons in general know what their minions know (got mentioned multiple times during Personal Story)
So it stands to reason that all Elder Dragons have so sort of hive mind. The Dream would then be very likely the Mordremoth counterpart.
So the ability to look into the future yould very well come from Mordremoth.The Dream is NOT a hive mind. This was stressed out early on, and stated so in Ghosts of Ascalon. It is a collection of memories, yes, but not a hive mind. The two are very different.
Well, the Dream in my explanation is a sealed off area, just like the Darknet can’t be accessed directly through the internet. The darknet however uses infrastructure that was initially built to support the internet.
It could be the very same thing with the Dream, the Dream is a sealed off area within the “hive mind” and the Pale Tree is guarding said area.
The Dream also turns into a hive mind once a Sylvari has fallen for Mordremoth.
The reason why the Dream “usually” doesn’t act as hive mind is because the Sylvari are modeled after humans and so have a free mind, and because the Pale Tree is blocking the influence of Mordremoth.
At last, let’s not forget that the Nightmare Court has many traits a dragon corruption also has, like not being able to escape the Nightmare once you’ve fallen for it.
So it’s plausible that the Nightmare resembles Mordremoth’s presence and the primal destiny for the Sylvari of being destructive minions of Mordremoth.
(edited by Wuselknusel.4082)
But if the Dream is part of Mordremoth’s hive mind, explain:
We are told that the Dream is made out of memories, aether, and powerful magic; and gives “glimpses of the past, the present, and the future”. This resembles the Mists, which is made out of protomatter and contains ‘memories’ (or echoes) of past, present, and future (note: protomatter is the building blocks of reality in GW, while aether is the base form of magical energy as best we understand), more than any hive mind.
To add to that, there is an indication that the Sylvari aren’t based of humans and that they don’t automatically connect to the Dream. Maylik (I’m probably spelling his name wrong) was born of a different tree, had no apparent connection to the Dream, and was as human in appearance as other Sylvari.
Interestingly he was referred to as the Harbringer by the Nightmare Court so its possible still that the Nightmare is a portion of the dream effected by Mordemoth’s corruption. Dragon’s have infiltrated the Mists before and Mordemoth’s connection to minds means he might be using Sylvari minds as a back door.
Add to the fact that cutting yourself off from the Dream in fact makes you more susceptible to Mordemoth’s control.
It’s Malyck, but we have developer statement that they are based off of humans:
Kristen: The sylvari race always needed to be noble, beautiful plant people. Previous designs took into account many different proportions of those three tenets, but not really as much of a balance of all three together. The more diverse and deep the lore of the race became, the more we realized we really wanted a visual that matched, so I began developing my new direction on my own time while we were preparing for gamescom last year.
The main key to the design was developing an obvious anatomy that clearly described the race as plant rather than an offshoot of human. However, because the race tightly relates to the essence of human due to the Pale Tree’s influences from Ronan, the overall form has a human silhouette. But if you look more closely, you’ll see the forms are really quite alien. They are a collection of abstract notions the Pale Tree had about what made up the human, as she really only saw the surface. They are a tree’s interpretation of humans.
In exploring the anatomy, you can see a lot of different details. The forearms, for example, are not a human arm with leaves tacked on top, but rather a shape created by many stem tendons and long leaves coiling around one another to create the structure. The faces of the sylvari are not restricted by the anatomy of the skull as a human would, but are created by layers upon layers of plant materials that press together, forming the illusion of anatomy. On the outside, they are beautiful and elegant. Looking closer, you’ll see how different they really are. I hope everyone enjoys exploring the details!
http://www.talktyria.net/2011/08/11/sylvari-lore-interview-with-ree-soesbee-kristen-perry/
So unless they were lying or got retconned…
It’s easly possible that Malyck’s tree was influenced by humanoid figures – such as White Mantle, mursaat, druids, the supposed west coast port that Fort Koga served as a checkpoint on a trade route to (likely a human port), or even a certain sylvari who wandered far enough west (Caithe or even Ceara – which would explain how Ceara found out about Caithe’s secret, which remains unknown though we know what Caithe’s secret is now).
“Dragon’s have infiltrated the Mists before […]”
Not really. Only Jormag has had any influence with the Mists, and this was through other mediums as far as we have seen. But there’s indication that Jormag’s second sphere of influence might be souls/spirits which would give him an innate link to the Mists that the other dragons wouldn’t have. Just because Jormag has, and through indirect means, doesn’t mean others can.
As an aside, the sylvari wound up being pretty much the opposite of what is described above: in practice, they aren’t plants with the ‘overall form’ of humans, they’re humans with the ‘overall form’ of plants.
Carry on.
Not really. If you pay attention to their skin’s detail, you can see exactly what Kristen was saying.
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