Guild Wars 2

You are an inhabitant of Tyria. ragardless of your race or origin and only from lore-perspective, What would be your religious belief and why?

Talking about believes is quite hard, especially since some of the gods (the human ones) are proven to exist, which would make their existence a fact rather than a belief.

lordkrall.7241:

Talking about believes is quite hard, especially since some of the gods (the human ones) are proven to exist, which would make their existence a fact rather than a belief.

That’s why I find it so interesting!
Do you follow these proven gods and ignore other versions of gods (like Mellaggan, the Quaggan god)?
In a world full of magical creatures, what makes these gods ‘gods’? Is it because they live in the mists? By that logic, the unseen were gods too.
Would you say "it’s all part of a great plan’ like the eternal alchemy, without being able to understand it?
Would you act like the atheistic Charr, because you are afraid to follow false gods?
Would you follow one of the teachings? (The pale tree, Koda, the great dwarf…)
You could also worship the dragons if you’d like!
…

Tyria is much richer in godlike beings than earth, what would you believe?

It isn’t the living in the Mists bit that make gods gods, it’s all the things they did around a thousand years ago, and the things they hypothetically have the power to do. They brought humanity into the world, they gifted magic to the races, they set restrictions on magic that held firm for a thousand years, and that’s just what we know about. Ther’re also numerous events hinted at in the scriptures and the history scrolls- purging and terraforming an entire kingdom, taking part in massive battles, turning entire seas into deserts. And then there’s the fact that, two hundred and fifty years ago, a fallen human god almost reshaped the entire Tyrian reality in his own twisted image. What if the other gods could do such too? It’s the ultimate deterrent.

That said, I really want to know what the interplay would have been between a Nightfallen Tyria and the Elder Dragons…

As to the original post… I personally, would revere raw magic, as it is the source of power of every being or entity worshiped in Tyria (to the best of our knowledge, anyway… I don’t know that it is outright stated that the human gods are powered by magic). And then perhaps I’d pull a Gaheron and see if I could be a god if I controlled enough of it.

EDIT: And while Tyria is much richer in godlike beings, no fictional universe will ever be able to encompass the kind of diversity one can see in real world faiths. ^-^

I would accept the existance of gods but only as beings who have a lot of power and who are worshipped by others as gods, not as beings who need to be worshipped by me. As long as these gods are not striving against my goals or benefit my (political, personal or military) enemies, I would not care if they exist and if they are worshipped. Although I would probably question people who did worship them.

I personally would not worship anything. I would probably be a believer in a non-religious version of the Eternal Alchemy which I would want to understand as much I would be able to.

I’d probably be a gods-fearing human. Maybe I’ve been hit hard by GW1 nostalgia, but my favourite city is DR with Lion’s Arch a close second and I enjoy the humans’ story. I also like the lore behind the Human Gods.

Mellagan is considered by Human scholars to actually be Melandru, by the way. Quaggans are too polite to correct them.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

It isn’t the living in the Mists bit that make gods gods, it’s all the things they did around a thousand years ago, and the things they hypothetically have the power to do. They brought humanity into the world, they gifted magic to the races, they set restrictions on magic that held firm for a thousand years, and that’s just what we know about. Ther’re also numerous events hinted at in the scriptures and the history scrolls- purging and terraforming an entire kingdom, taking part in massive battles, turning entire seas into deserts. And then there’s the fact that, two hundred and fifty years ago, a fallen human god almost reshaped the entire Tyrian reality in his own twisted image. What if the other gods could do such too? It’s the ultimate deterrent.

That said, I really want to know what the interplay would have been between a Nightfallen Tyria and the Elder Dragons…

As to the original post… I personally, would revere raw magic, as it is the source of power of every being or entity worshiped in Tyria (to the best of our knowledge, anyway… I don’t know that it is outright stated that the human gods are powered by magic). And then perhaps I’d pull a Gaheron and see if I could be a god if I controlled enough of it.

EDIT: And while Tyria is much richer in godlike beings, no fictional universe will ever be able to encompass the kind of diversity one can see in real world faiths. ^-^

And now the dragons are reshaping the earth, while the gods are so silent they could even be gone. Why are the gods gods and the dragons not? (I know some suspect that each dragon is tied to a god in order to keep the magic in the world in balance, but we can’t know for sure.)
And your edit is right but I mean Tyria is filled with godlike beings who are much more touchable than those on earth. I think the choise between all those beings would be so hard, I could run around worshipping ice statues and large faces like the grawl.

Rhaegar.1203:

Mellagan is considered by Human scholars to actually be Melandru, by the way. Quaggans are too polite to correct them.

Yes, but for the Quaggans, Mellagan is the only god. For the humans it’s one of six (and some more stuck in the real of torment or killed by gods who have taken their place).

what if the dragons were the original GODS before human Gods came to this world? and were sealed away by human gods and hense why they are corrupt or evil or somthing?

Diovid.9506:

snip

pretty much that, though if i was a human, i would not be above asking for a helping hand now and then, something like:

“hey, Balthazar… i’m about to go kick some centaur kitten , feel like giving me a boost so i can slaughter more?”

If I was born in 1300ish Tyria I would believe in the eternal alchemy. Regardless my race.

Tough question. On one hand, the 6 human gods used to give power to its believers and are proven to be real. However, nowadays for all we know they could be dead, and the only power they give are small magic boosts, which could just be a placebo and you’re channeling your own magic power. Dragons can grant insane amounts of power, but at the cost of your soul. The eternal alchemy is a nice idea, but it seems like that’s more of a science than a religion. Charr atheism seems to be distrust of magic, which in a world of magic I would never want to do. Then Koda is stupid to follow if your not Kodan since it says that the kodans are the highest ranking species on Tyria. Great Dwarf is a bunch of hairy statues running around underground, so no thanks. Ventari’s Teachings seem like more of a cult following than anything, but it does seem to be a good set of rules to live your life by. Grawl worship flowers, so that leaves the Spirits of the Wild. I don’t see many negatives to worshiping them, so I would worship Bear.

I would probably worship the Spirits of the Wild. Their teachings make sense, some of them died/disappeared while trying to protect their followers and the ones that lived are present enough in the material world to make me think that they will always be there for their people. I would revere the memory of the Owl.

You forgot about the Sun, Beetle!

To build off the OP, which afterlife do you guys think you’d end up in? Me, I’d definitely end up in the Bright Hollow. ^ ^

I’ve never heard of an afterlife called “Bright Hollow” – where’d you get that from?

There’s an event chain in western Brisban that involves kidnapped skritt. If you fail all of them, one of the skritt says as it dies something along the lines of “I’ll see you (an apparent lover that is mentioned several times while the Inquest are conducting their experiment) again in the Bright Hollow.”

Skritt being skritt, i have it marked up as a cultural permutation of the locals, and not likely a real place in the Mists… but from an in-universe perspective, I would love to go to a skritt’s paradise.

Beetle.2476:

The eternal alchemy is a nice idea, but it seems like that’s more of a science than a religion.

I’d say that the eternal alchemy can only be theorized, and you would choose to believe in it. Much like how the big bang theory can only be theorized and not fully proven, while creationists don’t choose to believe in it. So yeah, let’s classify the eternal alchemy as a ‘religion’.

Gabby.3205:

I would probably worship the Spirits of the Wild. Their teachings make sense, some of them died/disappeared while trying to protect their followers and the ones that lived are present enough in the material world to make me think that they will always be there for their people. I would revere the memory of the Owl.

Yet, your gods are not immortal. Owl for example will never be there to support you in your struggle, you can only remember his teachings. What would you do if all the spirits were dead? (Which reminds me, what’s the origin of the spirits? Could they be reborn?)
There are magical beings in this world who can aid you and grant you power, wouldn’t it be a waste to worship owl, who is now powerless?

Aaron Ansari.1604:

You forgot about the Sun, Beetle!

I always liked the idea of a sun god. If you were a caveman on earth, wouldn’t it make more sense to worship the large source of energy and life in the sky as a god, rather than an invisible god?
But in Tyria there are other noticable sources of life and magic, so the sun is only one of many options. (btw, what’s the origin of the Tyrian sun?)

Aaron Ansari.1604:

To build off the OP, which afterlife do you guys think you’d end up in? Me, I’d definitely end up in the Bright Hollow. ^ ^

The bright hollow just looks like the skritt interpretation of the mists to me. Why would you want to live in skritt-nirvana anyway?
I think almost all races have accepted the mists as the afterlife.

Just asking questions to keep the debate going, think about it

Mm… yes and no. I believe it is an observable fact, for races that have sufficient magical sophistication, that souls that don’t become ghosts “pass on”- that is, that they go somewhere rather than ceasing to exist. By definition, by going somewhere other than Tyria, they go into the Mists. That does not mean, however, that races share an afterlife.

Consider, for instance, our world. Downtown Beijing and rural Kentucky both can be said to be “on Earth”, and people who live in each can be said to “live on Earth”, but due to the massive differences between the locales such terms are misleading. I consider saying that “the afterlife is the Mists” is a similar overly broad statement that fails to adequetly capture what the afterlife is actually like.

Unfortunately, aside from ghosts and a rather limited look at some of the realms of the human gods in GW1, we don’t have much at all to go on as to what happens to a soul after death, where it goes, why it goes there, and what that place is like.

As to why I’d want to be in skritt-nirvana, I find the skritt outlook on life very attractive. “We are here to have pleasant times and happy memories”? That’s an excellent answer! In a world where I’d be able to live by such a creed, I’d very much like to end up in an afterlife shaped by it.

Bellyboomer.3048:

Gabby.3205:

I would probably worship the Spirits of the Wild. Their teachings make sense, some of them died/disappeared while trying to protect their followers and the ones that lived are present enough in the material world to make me think that they will always be there for their people. I would revere the memory of the Owl.

Yet, your gods are not immortal. Owl for example will never be there to support you in your struggle, you can only remember his teachings. What would you do if all the spirits were dead? (Which reminds me, what’s the origin of the spirits? Could they be reborn?)
There are magical beings in this world who can aid you and grant you power, wouldn’t it be a waste to worship owl, who is now powerless?

Well it does seem that the worship of Owl Spirit has kind of disappeared, if you look at the state of her lodge in Snowden Drifts. But that said, just because the Owl Spirit is dead does not mean her teachings are pointless.

Bellyboomer.3048:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

You forgot about the Sun, Beetle!

I always liked the idea of a sun god. If you were a caveman on earth, wouldn’t it make more sense to worship the large source of energy and life in the sky as a god, rather than an invisible god?
But in Tyria there are other noticable sources of life and magic, so the sun is only one of many options. (btw, what’s the origin of the Tyrian sun?)

Many people worshiped the sun, moon, stars, rivers, mountains, any and everything that has a large impact on their lives. This can be seen through a multitude of religions around the world IRL. The belief in a single omnipotent/omniscient god is a more recent development.

Narcemus.1348:

Bellyboomer.3048:

Gabby.3205:

I would probably worship the Spirits of the Wild. Their teachings make sense, some of them died/disappeared while trying to protect their followers and the ones that lived are present enough in the material world to make me think that they will always be there for their people. I would revere the memory of the Owl.

Yet, your gods are not immortal. Owl for example will never be there to support you in your struggle, you can only remember his teachings. What would you do if all the spirits were dead? (Which reminds me, what’s the origin of the spirits? Could they be reborn?)
There are magical beings in this world who can aid you and grant you power, wouldn’t it be a waste to worship owl, who is now powerless?

Well it does seem that the worship of Owl Spirit has kind of disappeared, if you look at the state of her lodge in Snowden Drifts. But that said, just because the Owl Spirit is dead does not mean her teachings are pointless.

Bellyboomer.3048:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

You forgot about the Sun, Beetle!

I always liked the idea of a sun god. If you were a caveman on earth, wouldn’t it make more sense to worship the large source of energy and life in the sky as a god, rather than an invisible god?
But in Tyria there are other noticable sources of life and magic, so the sun is only one of many options. (btw, what’s the origin of the Tyrian sun?)

Many people worshiped the sun, moon, stars, rivers, mountains, any and everything that has a large impact on their lives. This can be seen through a multitude of religions around the world IRL. The belief in a single omnipotent/omniscient god is a more recent development.

I think it’s my scepticism about gods irl that raises these questions. Gods on earth aren’t ‘touchable’ and don’t have impact on the lives of those who don’t believe in them.
That’s why these nature religions you speak of are more appealing to me, these forces are much more noticeable or easier to picture than for example the christian god. The egyptians could feel the presence of their god Horus all day long and witness him floating in the sky. In that aspect, Horus seems much more logical to me than God.

This is also why I’d find it strange to worship Owl on Tyria. There are all these godlike beings on Tyria who are more noticeable and touchable than the gods on earth. Those gods or their avatars can appear before you, they will shape the earth, they will share power with you, let you travel to the mists,… Yet all you have left of owl are his teachings, and not the power to influence the world like the other gods have. His teachings are still important, but over time they will become vague, rewritten, reinterpreted and confusing, while you can still go up to the other gods and ask for their insights in person (sorta).

ps: I don’t want to offend anyones religion in real life, I’m just interested in the idea of religion in alternate worlds. I’m not some one-side-argument atheist who’s here to tell other people’s beliefs are wrong.

Well, it seems the physical needs of religion somewhat slip away the more civilized groups of people become. I personally think that this is because of the Heirarchy of Needs. In a more civilized land, the notion of depending on a diety for your yearly harvest is not really a necessary thing. And I want to note that I am not calling religious people uncivilized or savage, I myself am a believer, I am just looking at how history seems to unravel these sorts of situations. Once you get past the physical needs of survival (security, food, water, shelter, etc..) you move on to the point of needs that is along the lines of the afterlife, the meaning of life, philosophy and such. These types of questions throw religion in a different light.

In GW2 we are at a bit more of a civilized era. The kingdoms are more settled, and while there is still war and trouble, people have made a somewhat philosophical shift from looking at direct needs to looking towards indirect needs. This is why, IMO, things like the teachings of a valiant Spirit of the Wild can remain useful to the norn even til today.

Narcemus.1348:

Well, it seems the physical needs of religion somewhat slip away the more civilized groups of people become. I personally think that this is because of the Heirarchy of Needs. In a more civilized land, the notion of depending on a diety for your yearly harvest is not really a necessary thing. And I want to note that I am not calling religious people uncivilized or savage, I myself am a believer, I am just looking at how history seems to unravel these sorts of situations. Once you get past the physical needs of survival (security, food, water, shelter, etc..) you move on to the point of needs that is along the lines of the afterlife, the meaning of life, philosophy and such. These types of questions throw religion in a different light.

In GW2 we are at a bit more of a civilized era. The kingdoms are more settled, and while there is still war and trouble, people have made a somewhat philosophical shift from looking at direct needs to looking towards indirect needs. This is why, IMO, things like the teachings of a valiant Spirit of the Wild can remain useful to the norn even til today.

I think on Tyria these mechanics wouldn’t work like they do on earth, because Tyrian gods have more to offer. It is true that gods on earth primarily answered to these basic needs, and that this is now a thing of the past in western society. Tyrian gods have a larger purpose than fulfilling basic needs, the physical need for the gods doesn’t stop there. Magic and technology advance hand in hand on Tyria, so I’d think that godly magic would too. While on earth, we find insight trough selfreflection, on Tyria we could walk up to Melandru in Arah and have a chat with him in order to obtain wisdom (before it sank ofcourse).
I know you’re a fan of Owl and I’m not saying that his teachings don’t have as much significance as the teachings of the other spirits, but I mean that he’s not there anymore to help you out magically. In a world where the gods have so much to offer, why pick the dead god over the live god?

I guess what I am saying is the gods no longer have anything to offer. It has been known for a long time by humanity that magic (whether or not given by the gods) was coming from an artifact on the planet, not from the gods directly. There are only a few situations, such as the dervish, where this does not seem to be the case. And to add to that, the human gods have been extremely distant for the last 200ish years. There have been no godly blessings nor has there been any communication with the gods at all until just recently (the Cathedral of Silence). The human gods have nothing more to offer at all than just their creeds taught by the priests and priestesses.

The only race that has a set of religious figures that are still somewhat interactive are the norn. The Spirits of the Wild are said to have more of a one on one interaction with the race that they commune with, and this sets them apart from the human gods who, apart from some of their disciples, viewed humanity as more of a congregation than a group of individuals. So all I am getting at is, Owl has no less reason to be revered (especially for her actions, sacrificing herself for the good of the Norn) than the human gods who are equally as non-existent in their effects.

I understand that you have no qualm with the Owl spirit BTW. I am just using it as an example because you brought it up as a very good one.

I think I would believe that the things the races worship (gods, spirits, etc.) are probably objectively real because there has been evidence of their presence, but I can’t see myself worshiping any of them because everything that actually seems to get done around Tyria is accomplished by ordinary mortals. I would have respect for the principles which those beings represent, though.

Interesting question.

Bellyboomer.3048:

You are an inhabitant of Tyria. ragardless of your race or origin and only from lore-perspective, What would be your religious belief and why?

I’m of two minds, but only because two of the races appeal to me over the others. First, the Charr and their atheistic views appeal to me because I am a deist (man as god) like America’s Founding Fathers. Gods used as a form of control and coercion is bad, inhibit us from attaining our full potential, and stagnate society. The Flame Legion did this to the Charr as a whole. Churches do this to people as a whole in real life. European history is rife with the Church abusing it’s position, killing people in the name of faith, and ruining lives of those who don’t believe as they do, question their rules, or interpret their holy texts in different ways. The same can be seen in the Middle East with Muslim extremists today. And those are just the big ones from a Western point of view. True faith in an Almighty comes from within, and the belief that we will one day understand the world around us well enough that we can stride the stars like gods. I believe the Charr feel the same way, that there is nothing that they can’t accomplish if they put their minds to it. Magic and gods are a crutch that the Charr just don’t need.

Second, I find a certain appeal in the Eternal Alchemy. With understanding and acceptance of chaos theory, one can hope to embody the world in an single understandable equation. I find that the egos of the Asura align rather well with the arrogance of the Charr. Together they would be a potent force against which no group could hope to stand. Yes, the magitech that the Asura create does fly in the face of my last sentence in the previous paragraph, but, being human, I am able to hold and believe in two contradictory thoughts simultaneously and know each to be absolutely true.

Obviously I lean more towards Charr.