Guild Wars 2

I didn’t play GW1, so I’m trying to understand the timeline. Looking at EotN on the timeline, we see that it occurs at year 1078. But the wiki page also says that we witness the birth of the sylvari (which weren’t born until year ~1300). How did this work?

Obviously a mistype of some sort. In EotN, you can visit the ‘Pale Tree’, which is basically a small encampment with Ronan and Ventari and some others, with a small sapling which grows to be the Pale Tree. I suppose that’s what’s meant by the birth of sylvari.

Mystic Starfish.2586:

Obviously a mistype of some sort. In EotN, you can visit the ‘Pale Tree’, which is basically a small encampment with Ronan and Ventari and some others, with a small sapling which grows to be the Pale Tree. I suppose that’s what’s meant by the birth of sylvari.

Oh, okay. I wasn’t sure if it was based in ~1078, and then you just get like a preview cinematic of recent times. Okay, interesting.

Do you know if it’s possible to enter Maguuma (Henge of Denravi/Bloodstone Fen) during the EotN years?

The wiki page you saw likely is referring to the ending cinematic which gives a glimpse into various points of the future – Livia finding the Scepter of Orr, Pyre leading his rebellion, Primordus waking up, the Pale Tree moving with no one around (the “birth of the sylvari” as mentioned but isn’t so as the Pale Tree is too small still). These all take point in different ime periods – Primordus waking, for example, happens 50 years after Eye of the North. But we witness it as part of the cinematic.

The timeskipping during the cinematic is something a lot of people don’t really seem to grasp, because said same cinematic also shows the PC and other heroes walking away from the Great Destroyer’s chamber which is where Primordus was hibernating and I’ve seen more than a few jabs at how the PC just walked away when an Elder Dragon was waking. I’ve also seen comments by folks who claim Livia found the scepter in 1078 AE based on that cinematic, and that it was retconned with War in Kryta to be post-1079 AE… despite, again, the time skipping nature of the cinematic (read: there was no retcon).

Psynch.4087:

Do you know if it’s possible to enter Maguuma (Henge of Denravi/Bloodstone Fen) during the EotN years?

You can only access the Tarnished Coast in Eye of the North – which is technically part of the Maguuma Jungle, but the coastline of it. The only non-EotN-exclusive location you can visit for 1078 AE is Ascalon, during two specific quests related to Gwen. Though during Nightfall (1075 AE) there’s a quest that takes you to Bloodstone Fen. There’s also the War in Kryta which does feature Kryta, Far Shiverpeaks, Tarnished Coast, Maguuma Jungle, and Ascalon areas (mainly Kryta) in 1079 AE. But Henge of Denravi/Bloodstone Fen is not included.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

snip

Great, thank you for that clarification

slightly of topic but still semi-related, whats our best assumption to the creators of the eye? I’m thinking pre-dragon jotun? its in the shiverpeaks and the dwarves (at least ogden) didnt know who built it and our characters said mady by something more powerful than men, im not a historian but do the carvings fit ancient jotun stones?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I’ve also seen comments by folks who claim Livia found the scepter in 1078 AE based on that cinematic, and that it was retconned with War in Kryta to be post-1079 AE… despite, again, the time skipping nature of the cinematic (read: there was no retcon).

Personally, I feel that has less to do with misunderstanding the time frame of the cutscene, and more to do with Livia very clearly stating her intent to go to Arah before returning to Kryta. Nonetheless, who’s to say she doesn’t have the Scepter of Orr during the time of WiK?

@Getefix Personally, I don’t believe it’s jotun. It looks nothing like the kennings we see in GW2, and architecture is thus far one of the precious few things (mostly) exempt from radical redesign. I’m inclined to believe it to be seer-built, but as far as hard facts go all we know is that it is similar to design to some structures seen in the Depths, and shares a handful of elements with the ruins of the Tarnished Coast, neither of which we have any better than guesses for their origins.

ancient skritt palace then? :P never underestimate the power of skritt

XD I could live with that. More likely, though, it is one of the Elder races… it’s just a question of which.

I’d love it more if the Tengu were involved in its construction.

Would be funny if it was just a two-room house for a Giganticus Lupicus like the one seen in Arah. So much mystery and power and awe and fear attributed to something so insignificant to that enigmatic dead race.

Psynch.4087:

Do you know if it’s possible to enter Maguuma (Henge of Denravi/Bloodstone Fen) during the EotN years?

In GW1 Henge of Denravi was an outpost and Bloodstone Fen was a Mission so yes you could . Bloodstone Fen was was in the northern part where as Henge of Denravi was in the south .

Uh, Adine. He asked about the Eye of the North years. You can only access them during Prophecies, which places them at 1072 AE – rather than 1078 AE, which is EotN’s year.

Getefix.9150:

slightly of topic but still semi-related, whats our best assumption to the creators of the eye?

I think at this point any best assumption is the worst assumption. We simply have nothing to compare it too. But we can with some degree of certainty say who didn’t built it. If we were to believe Ogden, it wasn’t built by dwarves, and not by humans either. It doesn’t look Asuran, and certainly not Norn or Charr.

So it could be: Tengu, Jotun, Margonites, Mursaat, Stone Summit, Seer, Forgotten, The Gods, something else entirely. We just don’t know.

It wouldn’t be Margonites, as while they were on Tyria they were humans. :P Stone Summit = dwarves so ‘not dwarven’ means ‘not Stone Summit’. It doesn’t match known jotun, forgotten, or God-made architecture either. Best we can tell it doesn’t match tengu or mursaat architecture either (though we have very little evidence of their architectures).

Beyond “extinct races” we only have the Seers. And given we know there’s been multiple cycles to the Elder Dragons’ rising, it could have been a structure from a previous cycle before last.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It wouldn’t be Margonites, as while they were on Tyria they were humans.

Well that doesn’t entirely exclude them from building it. They were a whole different culture of people, and most of their architecture seems to be wasting away in the Crystal Desert at the time of GW1. So I didn’t want to leave them out. Who knows, they could always red con them in some how.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

:P Stone Summit = dwarves so ‘not dwarven’ means ‘not Stone Summit’.

I disagree. Ogden doesn’t recognize it as dwarven architecture. But meanwhile the Stonesummit have been building weird stuff, which he may not be familiar with. So it is possible that he’s simply talking about his own people, and not this splinter group of evil dwarves. While they probably didn’t build it, I would not exclude them simply because of Ogden’s quote.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It doesn’t match known jotun, forgotten, or God-made architecture either. Best we can tell it doesn’t match tengu or mursaat architecture either (though we have very little evidence of their architectures).

We’ve never really seen a Mursaat city, nor seen any of the Jotun structures of the past. It indeed doesn’t match any of the Mursaat constructs we’ve seen in GW1, but again, there could be a lot of Mursaat structures we haven’t seen yet.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Beyond “extinct races” we only have the Seers. And given we know there’s been multiple cycles to the Elder Dragons’ rising, it could have been a structure from a previous cycle before last.

Possibly.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

While they probably didn’t build it, I would not exclude them simply because of Ogden’s quote.

No, but we can exclude them anyway. “The origin of the Eye of the North is so ancient it has been lost to even the wisest skaald”, and the Stone Summit are very recent, less than a dwarvern generation old at the time of Prophecies.

nor seen any of the Jotun structures of the past.

Actually, we see quite a few in GW2. All those kennings throughout Wayfarer and Dredgehaunt are jotun-built before their fall.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It wouldn’t be Margonites, as while they were on Tyria they were humans.

Well that doesn’t entirely exclude them from building it. They were a whole different culture of people, and most of their architecture seems to be wasting away in the Crystal Desert at the time of GW1. So I didn’t want to leave them out. Who knows, they could always red con them in some how.

This how ever would.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Margonite

Seeing as they where a sea fairing race I can’t see what they would be doing anywhere near the Eye.

BrotherBelial.3094:

This how ever would.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Margonite

Seeing as they where a sea fairing race I can’t see what they would be doing anywhere near the Eye.

I know they are a seafaring race, which is why I said it would have to be a redcon. You could have them sail almost anywhere, if you’re willing to bend the lore (which the current writers have shown to do on occasion).

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Well that doesn’t entirely exclude them from building it. They were a whole different culture of people, and most of their architecture seems to be wasting away in the Crystal Desert at the time of GW1. So I didn’t want to leave them out. Who knows, they could always red con them in some how.

Incredibly unlikely. The only recorded presence of the Margonites as humans was in the Crystal Sea and Unending Ocean, and their only structures known to exist or existed are boats – of wood. Post-transformation they do have structures made out of the same black-with-purple-glow metal as the Torment weapons, which are only seen in the Realm of Torment.

It would be immensely odd and out of character to find Margonite presence not only further north than any human is known to have been (in large scale) excluding Ascalonians pushing the charr back, but to see them in the largest mountain range in the world so far away from their homeland? It would be like saying Atrumm Ruins was probably built by the norn.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I disagree. Ogden doesn’t recognize it as dwarven architecture. But meanwhile the Stonesummit have been building weird stuff, which he may not be familiar with. So it is possible that he’s simply talking about his own people, and not this splinter group of evil dwarves. While they probably didn’t build it, I would not exclude them simply because of Ogden’s quote.

Not only is the Stone Summit recent (founded by Dagnar so less than a few hundred years old at best), but we see their architecture in mass and it is nothing like the Eye of the North. Not only that, but Ogden has more than likely seen Stone Summit structure too, given that it litters the Southern Shiverpeaks.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

We’ve never really seen a Mursaat city, nor seen any of the Jotun structures of the past. It indeed doesn’t match any of the Mursaat constructs we’ve seen in GW1, but again, there could be a lot of Mursaat structures we haven’t seen yet.

While we cannot say we’ve seen a mursaat city, we’ve seen mursaat architecture – and the Eye of the North is far from a city anyways.

And you’re wrong about the jotun structures – all non-hut structures of the jotun are “structures of the past” – the jotun live in the citadels of their ancestors that were built when the giant-kings ruled. And the Eye of the North look nothing like them.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I know they are a seafaring race, which is why I said it would have to be a redcon. You could have them sail almost anywhere, if you’re willing to bend the lore (which the current writers have shown to do on occasion).

There’s a huge difference between “sailing anywhere” and “putting a sea faring race in a tall mountain range that was devoid of humanity until the Ebon Vanguard in the 1070s.”

Impossible? Certainly not. But it would require a bending of lore that’s closer to breaking than the krait working with Scarlet in the Toxic Alliance.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Impossible? Certainly not. But it would require a bending of lore that’s closer to breaking than the krait working with Scarlet in the Toxic Alliance.

Well you see what they did with the Bloodstones and calender. I wouldn’t put it past them. Frankly, I wonder if they even thought up who built it. Maybe we’re just filling in the blanks.

I didn’t know those were old Jotun structures btw, so I stand corrected on that. As for the Stone Summit, if they are that new, then yeah, that rules them out definitely.

The Mursaat are unlikely to be behind the Eye of the North, especially since what we see of their structures in no way resembles the Eye of the North. But I didn’t want to rule them out, simply because we’ve never seen any of their cities.

Giving the scrying pool is the main resin the Eye of the North was build or so we are lead to believe from what Gwen tells us. I think it was the Seers. Seeing as we believe it’s aninchant, the scrying pool and the Seers named as such. Other than these things I have no evidance to back up my claim.

I don’t get why people think “Scrying Pool = Seers”. Despite the name given to them, the Seer we met never actually… seered.

Technically speaking, by the way, original mention of the name “Seer” comes from ancient dwarven text about one individual.

“The Mursaat have taken Thunderhead Keep! Jalis ordered my scouts, Korg and Onar, ahead to learn what they can and to find the one the ancient texts call the Seer.”
“The Dwarves insist on finding some ancient spellcaster they claim is a seer.” http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Seeking_The_Seer

The name “Seers” just seems to have stuck as a nickname for the race, like the Forgotten. Originating by players calling them such, since no name for the Seer’s race was given, ArenaNet seems to have kept it – for whatever reason.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I don’t get why people think “Scrying Pool = Seers”. Despite the name given to them, the Seer we met never actually… seered.

Technically speaking, by the way, original mention of the name “Seer” comes from ancient dwarven text about one individual.

“The Mursaat have taken Thunderhead Keep! Jalis ordered my scouts, Korg and Onar, ahead to learn what they can and to find the one the ancient texts call the Seer.”
“The Dwarves insist on finding some ancient spellcaster they claim is a seer.” http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Seeking_The_Seer

The name “Seers” just seems to have stuck as a nickname for the race, like the Forgotten. Originating by players calling them such, since no name for the Seer’s race was given, ArenaNet seems to have kept it – for whatever reason.

Ok then, another resin I think it could be the “Seer” race is that we find three of them in Tyria, although it could be the same one, and two of the three are in the southern shiver peake’s. This may be dew to them being in hiding or they just fled there.

Maybe the Eye is a “Seer” building. The Dwarfs had to get that story from somewhere, and the Scrying pool would fit with that story, so maybe that’s why people make the connection. Or it might be as simple as using the Scrying pool lets you be a “Seer” of sorts. The game could have easily have the hero of guild wars painted as a “Seer” as they where the only one who could use it. I really don’t see how people could not make that leap.

Issue with that is that the dwarves didn’t seem to know of the Eye (based on Ogden’s reaction it certainly isn’t commonly known about although norn seem to be). They got the mention of the Seer from their ancient texts – which is far more likely to have ties to their dwarven legends about the time of the Elder Dragons than a building in an area they almost never go to.

And it’s not people not making that “leap” but rather the leap holds the sole basis of the definition for the word “seer.” Which isn’t very firm grounds to stand on at all, given the name is attributed to a race/individual whom holds no known ties and it’s not like the Eye of the North is the only scrying device in existence.

On a side: it’s just one Seer, not three.

Ogden may not know about it. But that’s not to say all dwarfs don’t know about it. I’m sure there are hing that you don’t know about but I do and same for you. My point is the story had to come from somewhere, and from what I gather it’s almost legend, things from are own history that may have basis in fact are now legend dew to the story changing over time/poor records of the event.

If we look at this logicly, the only two races that could of constructed it after the cut sceen rules out the rest, are mursat and seer. I say his as we have not seen a jotin strucher of the complexity of the Eye yet. I only say yet as there was a lot of he map unexplored in guild wars as in guild wars 2. It dose not fit in with what we know of mursat buildings so the only logical race left, that we know off is the seer race. I guess you could argue he forgotten, but I’m sure they say hey came from he east of the crystal desert and have not traveled past it. But I could be thinking of something else.

The fact is we don’t know who built the structure – when it was built – nor its intended purpose.

Well the Scrying Pool certainly has a clear purpose, and that may give the Eye its purpose as well. But personally it seems as if all the races that we know of are unlikely to have constructed the Eye of the North.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Well the Scrying Pool certainly has a clear purpose, and that may give the Eye its purpose as well. But personally it seems as if all the races that we know of are unlikely to have constructed the Eye of the North.

Or it was, it may have been built in secret. But I feel we will never know.

And another thing, too- both Gwen and the character easily recognize the pool as a scrying device, and the character shows some familiarity with how such things work. That all suggests that the pool is not unique in function. One of the premises of the argument that links seers specifically to the pool is that it is either fairly or entirely unique. The argument that the “story had to come from somewhere” is thus invalid support, because even humans are familiar with multiple possible sources.

I still feel that seers are the most likely candidate, but the argument that the pool is proof just doesn’t hold water (it’s okay, you can laugh). Simple process of elimination is a sounder means, and either way it cannot be proven beyond reasonable doubt.