Guild Wars 2

Upon reading the Edge of Destiny I could not understand if Queen Jennah actually likes Logan or is just taking advantage of him.
I’mc more inclined to say that we are closer to see a disruption between them than to see a King Thackeray, though…

It’s one of those side stories where you just kinda think, meh.

The interaction between the two is pretty stale, this is where the confusion lies really.
Though you can look at it from a third perspective, that Jennah cannot be openly entangle with Logan because she is Queen. Logan Thackery is a peasant after all. All of his influence has kinda come from him being so loyal to her, which was his downfall.

I always got the feeling she was just using him. Nothing concrete I guess. Just my gut instinct. She just saw the opportunity and took it. I always kinda felt like she was just toying with him.

I agree. The interaction between them is pretty stale. She’s a mesmer. If she was really interested in him I’m sure she could find a way to see him secretly. She’s just using him.

She might like him, but I think she’s using him. And why not? She is Queen and her entire job is to keep her country and people safe, so I would expect her to analyze who and what her assets are and then use them for the greater good. It doesn’t mean she doesn’t like (maybe love?) him, but her duty is to be Queen. I believe she would make any personal sacrifice in the name of that duty.

I haven’t read the story in a while, but don’t they meet in the LA arena, and Logan is instantly smitten by her or something? I suppose I should reread it before I make a full argument, but I think she likes him, she allowed him/wanted to speak with him after seeing him fight. She’s got Anise and the Shining Blade for extra protection, so she doesn’t technically need to use Logan. His being there is just an added protection bonus

There is more passion in Rytlock’s and Logan’s relationship than there is between him and Queen Jennah, truth be told…

Ree Soesbee outright stated that the love between the two is real. I think the problem is that the book presented it badly. I also think that Logan becoming the queens consort isnt strictly speaking taboo or illegal. Certainly, it seems pretty widely known in Divinity’s Reach that Logan only has eyes for the queen.

Jennah falling for Logan isnt such a stretch when you think through things from her perspective. Shes a young woman who is constantly surrounded by people currying her favor for their own interests. Particularly with the ministry as strong as it is and unwilling to give up power, she would be used to everyone around her having a hidden agenda.

Logan turns up who is in many ways like a hero from history (her example is Rurik) and through her magic she discovers hes totally devoted to her. No hidden agenda, no trick or manipulation. Her hero. Having her form a crush, particularly after him and his guild start bumping off dragon champions, is hardly suprising.

Infact Logan falling in love with her seems more forced. Sure, she is beautiful and is a nice gal but Im generally not sold on the whole love at first sight thing.

I think however that Jennah has been keeping Logan at arms length since the colapse of Destiny’s Edge, not because she doesn’t want a relationship with him, but because she doesn’t want to limit him.

She says two things in game that are interesting regarding Logan. The first is that she knows that he would do anything for her but keeping him as her personal hero was greedy and a mistake that she made once before at great cost (the collapse of Destiny’s Edge). She thinks that the whole world needs heros like Logan, not just her.

The second thing she says about Logan is that she needs him as a partner, not another servant. This is probably the other issue they have had relationship wise. Logan has been so obsessed with her protection since its the only thing he didnt screw up that hes fallen into the role of servant. Jennah is after someone to be more her equal, at least relationship wise.

At least thats my take on it.

Edge of Destiny does a kitten poor job of portraying a lot of things – no offense to the writer (I blame all the restrictions such a story had and Anet’s choice of pulling someone from outside Anet and not working with him as close as they did for GoA).

As Lutinz said, Ree said that the love between them is real.

Furthermore, when you play a human during the level 28 storyline – where you face Kellach with the order of your choice – you can talk to Jennah after the battle and she goes on about how she wants a partner and not another servant (in response to the PC saying she could just order Logan to stay since she doesn’t want him to leave).

(Edit: As I see Lutinz also said).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Edge of Destiny does a kitten poor job of portraying a lot of things – no offense to the writer (I blame all the restrictions such a story had and Anet’s choice of pulling someone from outside Anet and not working with him as close as they did for GoA).

As Lutinz said, Ree said that the love between them is real.

Furthermore, when you play a human during the level 28 storyline – where you face Kellach with the order of your choice – you can talk to Jennah after the battle and she goes on about how she wants a partner and not another servant (in response to the PC saying she could just order Logan to stay since she doesn’t want him to leave).

(Edit: As I see Lutinz also said).

While that is true, she still does mind-kitten him.

I have nothing concrete to back this up, but the interactions between Logan and Jennah in Edge of Destiny gave me the impression that though Logan’s infatuation with/love at first sight involving Jennah is real, her casting that spell that makes her and Logan “linked” is suspicious. Before reading the book, I was on pretty much on the “Logan Thackeray running away” joke wagon, but after the events of EoD, especially after Jennah essentially single-handedly ends the siege of Ebon Hawke with her apparently godlike Mesmer powers, her summoning of Logan made less practical sense to me and I stopped making fun of him because it seemed like he wasn’t completely at fault. Yeah, okay, his choice to free the Charr prisoners both aided the defense and would later help the peace treaty between the two races, but was that just a side effect of Logan’s arrival, or was that something she possibly planned (or at least banked on) knowing Logan’s affiliation with a Charr/Rytlock?

I don’t know, she just gives me the weirds.

Just reading this I have not realised there is more to their relationship. Coming at it from a non reader of the books – Logan comes across as very clingy/infatuated. He thinks that she need protecting all the time whereas she does seem (in the game at least) to have a bit more strength/nous than he gives her credit. As achensherd alluded too she does seem to be calculating though (that is an impression I get from the cutscenes)

@achensherd: Well, per that interview with Ree me and Lutinz mentioned (sadly, I don’t know which interview it was or where to find it), she had no manipulation over Jennah. So if it was her plan to get Logan to free the charr prisoners… how the hell would she be able to get Logan to do such by only calling him to Ebonhawke. Besides, she considers doing that as one of her biggest mistakes.

@Ashebyrne: Jennah does have more (magical) strength than what Logan gives her credit for. He’s an over-protective boyfriend figure, and fails to realize that Jennah can take care of herself (and has Anise to help her out otherwise). The only time she really needed Logan’s protection was when Ebonhawke was assaulted by the newly made Branded.

As I see it, each member of Destiny’s Edge has some sort of emotional “disorder” (as modern society deems it) – with Logan being the overprotective type (and Eir’s suffering from depression; Zojja’s overly attached to the point of obsessed with Snaff; etc.).

Theres an interesting part in the mission ‘A Light in the Darkness’ where the pale tree presents the player with dream versions of the members of Destiny’s Edge and gives us a chance to get a look at their inner thoughts and feelings.

For Logan, he says something interesting which would explain alot about his obsessiveness towards Jennah. He says he has to keep Jennah safe otherwise he left a friend to die for nothing. Logan is caught up with guilt over the fact he left Destiny’s Edge to save Jennah. He doesn’t feel he made the wrong choice. His actions probably did save Jennah. But he does feel responsable for the cost of his choice.

In short, hes kind of projecting his issues onto Jennah. He thinks if he can keep her safe then he can deal with the guilt. His choice was justified. I get the feeling Jennah kind of realises hes doing this as well.

I always found the fact people call Logan a coward funny. Generally a coward wont run from one danger and put themselves next deep in another danger on purpose. Logan had a very logical reason for making the choice he did. The reason I suspect alot of people have trouble empathising with it is frankly we didnt know Jennah well enough for people to value her.

Also Jennah probably wasnt thinking very clearly at all when she called Logan. She had just touched the mind of an Elder Dragon.

People call Logan a lot of things.

I think if I chose a different character to base my main off of, she’d be calling him “cousin”.

. . . what? Lieutenant Keiran Thackeray was being ripped up and down by Gwen and they weren’t a couple at that point.

Overheard something interesting in Divinity’s Reach… Wish I could remember the exact words.

One Citizen to another: How could you say that? She’s the Queen, she can be unwed and pregnant if she wants to be!

If you want to try to find the actual quote, I think I was in the southwestern area, heading towards the Dwayna roads.

It’s made pretty evident that Jennah knows exactly what Logan is doing when she talks with him in the Caudecus Manor ending cinematic. He says something about having to keep her safe, and she says something to the effect of the Dragons will ruin us all unless you do something. Pretty much if you do nothing I’m dead already. It pretty much gets him moving again finally.

Lutinz.6915:

I always found the fact people call Logan a coward funny. Generally a coward wont run from one danger and put themselves next deep in another danger on purpose. Logan had a very logical reason for making the choice he did. The reason I suspect alot of people have trouble empathising with it is frankly we didnt know Jennah well enough for people to value her.

.

He ran from the greatest danger on Tyria to a bunch of Ogres where there was the Serpah and a Charr army. Ebonhawke was far les dangerous than facing an Elder Dragon himself.

It’s interesting to hear that Ree has stated the love between Jennah and Logan is real (and mutual, I assume she meant?) – that tosses out a bit of the ambiguity I found interesting. There are a few ways to look at the queen, though, to my mind:

1) She’s a greedy, selfish woman who wants to keep her power at any cost (the bandit/Mantle anti-monarchy view) – in which case having someone as potent as Logan devoted to her gives her some personal power she can use with less limitation from the rest of her government.

2) She’s trying to hold on to the throne and the monarchy for the good of Kryta, because she believes that it’s a better option than the ministers forming any kind of council or one of them taking the throne in her place – in which case Logan is an ally to her and her throne against the ministry, but also a hero for Kryta’s interests.

3) She’s really just in love with Logan, a storybook hero made real (evidently just a bit of rough edges, plus dragon-slaying, makes him more appealing than straight-laced Dylan!), and she made an honest, youthful mistake in calling him away from the battle with Kralkatorrik, which she regrets. Even if she does put Kryta above all else, she didn’t mean to put her own well-being above Logan’s greater task, or to take advantage of him.

The uncomfortable factor in all of this is Jennah’s magical ability, of course. I wouldn’t go so far as to say that she would definitely have been fine without Logan, but she’s definitely not a helpless damsel, especially with Countess Anise with her. Even if she didn’t ensorcel Logan (and you can see why her enemies might think so), she’s a bit of an unknown quantity, and she does have to put Kryta above anything else (personal or the world) to be a good queen to her people. She’s not in the ‘unite the races’ camp – she’s sympathetic, sure, but she works for her nation.

Id say she falls into catagory 3. She hasnt shown much to indicate she has selfish plans. She has also not shown any sign of trying to abolish the Ministary which has been around for a long time. If anything it seems more that her position is under threat by corrupt ministers rather than the other way round.

We know she regrets calling Logan away from Kralkatorrik and we know that now she is actively trying to get Logan to leave her side and go out and fight the Elder Dragons. We also so far have never seen her misuse her Mesmer powers either.

I agree that she does put Kryta above everything else but that because its her reponsability to. Smolder would be doing the same for the Charr. Jennah however is very active in supporting and empowering the ‘unite the races’ thing. She has open diplomatic channels with the other major races, is working in with the Admiral’s Council in seting plans (Lion’s Arch being the closest to a neutral center that Tyria has) and was instrumental in establishing the Treaty with the charr.

Id say shes doing her part.

I’d say she falls into both 2 and 3 of Curuniel’s post.

She does seem to actually love Logan, and she does say she made a big mistake by keeping Logan at her beck and call in the past, which the only such situation we know of is in regards to the Ogre Revolt. But she can’t really be blamed for calling Logan at the time – she was facing an Elder Dragon that just passed by, and the oncoming army of new, unknown, dragon minions – and she had no idea Logan was intending to face off against said Elder Dragon with Glint and Destiny’s Edge.

If she did know, I bet she wouldn’t have called him, and who knows – she might not have been able to pull off the dues ex illusiona in time.

And I’d say she definitely is in the “unite the races” camp – she actively and openly pushed for negotiations with the charr, and is the first known to do so (even before the Vigil’s founding) during Edge of Destiny where she talks about how both charr and human are in the same boat and lets the former prisoners go free (those which survived the branded ogre assault).

Well, I think she is in the ‘unite the races’ camp – but she’s in that camp because that’s good for Kryta. She realised after the Dragonrise that if anyone – including Kryta – was to survive, they needed to work together. She might do otherwise if for some reason she felt it was better for Kryta if it stood alone, but she understands that Kryta is part of Tyria and there’s no point in preserving Kryta alone if the continent falls and Kryta is left to fall with it.

On the topic of Logan – he didn’t know what he was going into (for all he knew, he could have been going to stand alone against an elder dragon personally attacking Ebonhawke, without benefit of backup or a plan) and he shows a willingness and even eagerness to go into danger during the book to show that accusations of cowardice really aren’t fair. It also has to be noted that it takes a certain degree of courage to go against your peers – agree with his decision or not, for someone who’s already been shown to be unafraid of physical danger, it takes a certain degree of guts to tell the people you’re with “Sorry, it’s more important to me to be somewhere else right now”.

Oglaf.1074:

There is more passion in Rytlock’s and Logan’s relationship than there is between him and Queen Jennah, truth be told…

Kinky…

I say that Smodur and Jennah should wed to seal the peace treaty between Charr and Humans!

I think Logan might just break the treaty to get his woman back, and we’d have the war, and those petty Destiny’s Edge squabbles again.

Rytlock: You Killed an Imperator!
Logan: Well He Married My Queen!
Rytlock: ROAR!
Logan: ARRRGH!

*Fighting Insues
*Elder Dragons wipe everyone out.

While I’m sure something is there, I can easily see her putting duty ahead of her personal feelings, and her using him in the end. Plus, I haven’t trusted her, or her group, since i first saw them…

Tin Foil Hat Time!

1) She wears White Mantle colors (white and gold). That raised a huge red flag when i first saw her.

2) Countess Anise. To my knownledge, the other races didn’t get a secondary mentor like the humans did. That marks her as a future important figure. She is also an expert in “Ancient Krytan Law”. Which is oddly specific.

And the most “crazy tin foil hat” speculations of them all.

3) Shadow, the Queen’s cat. For one, Human players can ask about it, so at least a small mark of importance. Secondly, the Queen responds with an odd statement when asked….

“Ah, yes. My little Shadow. I’ve had her since I was a child. Royal children have very few friends, and she has always been a comfort to me.”

It might not seem weird to most people, but if Harry Potter has taught us anything; it’s you never trust long lived, and seemingly harmless, pets of important characters.

/end tinfoil speculations

Erukk.1408:

While I’m sure something is there, I can easily see her putting duty ahead of her personal feelings, and her using him in the end. Plus, I haven’t trusted her, or her group, since i first saw them…

Tin Foil Hat Time!

1) She wears White Mantle colors (white and gold). That raised a huge red flag when i first saw her.

2) Countess Anise. To my knownledge, the other races didn’t get a secondary mentor like the humans did. That marks her as a future important figure. She is also an expert in “Ancient Krytan Law”. Which is oddly specific.

And the most “crazy tin foil hat” speculations of them all.

3) Shadow, the Queen’s cat. For one, Human players can ask about it, so at least a small mark of importance. Secondly, the Queen responds with an odd statement when asked….

“Ah, yes. My little Shadow. I’ve had her since I was a child. Royal children have very few friends, and she has always been a comfort to me.”

It might not seem weird to most people, but if Harry Potter has taught us anything; it’s you never trust long lived, and seemingly harmless, pets of important characters.

/end tinfoil speculations

Odd thoughts..

1. Considering the White Mantle are linked to the Ministry and the bandits and they are trying to overthrow her Id say she isnt connected to the white mantle.

2. Countess Anise is quite mysterious in ways but shes also the leader of the Shining Blade which has been enemies of the White Mantle since the two groups formed. Her agents foil an attempt to assassinate the character in one of the PS paths by the White Mantle and you work with them to route out a cell.

3. Jennah’s pretty young. It would be an old cat by now but it wouldnt have to be that old.

Anyway, Shadow is clearly the champion of an Elder Dragon living underneath Divinity’s Reach and is mind controlling Jennah.

Jennah and Logan’s relationship is based off of the classic Victorian romance ideal. A pure woman of high standing and her loyal knight. They love but no touching, it’s love at a distance, it wouldn’t be proper otherwise. He rides to battle with her scarf on his belt, she thinks happy thoughts about holding hands with him one day. It’s very distant and strange compared to modern romance.

Lutinz.6915:

Odd thoughts..

1. Considering the White Mantle are linked to the Ministry and the bandits and they are trying to overthrow her Id say she isnt connected to the white mantle.

2. Countess Anise is quite mysterious in ways but shes also the leader of the Shining Blade which has been enemies of the White Mantle since the two groups formed. Her agents foil an attempt to assassinate the character in one of the PS paths by the White Mantle and you work with them to route out a cell.

3. Jennah’s pretty young. It would be an old cat by now but it wouldnt have to be that old.

Anyway, Shadow is clearly the champion of an Elder Dragon living underneath Divinity’s Reach and is mind controlling Jennah.

Ya, I’m good at odd thoughts and speculations.

Though if anything, I can see Jennah having ties with the mursaat, not the White Mantle. After the titans got released, and their race all but wiped out, the mursaat have no real need with the WM anymore, minus the whole revenge war that was WiK. It would also play into the Queen’s peacemaking nature, trying to form ties with what little remains, if any, that remains of their race.

Or Shadow could be holding a piece of Lazarus The Dire’s soul/power, and he is waiting for the right time to res himself.

Plus, the whole Queen/Mursaat Vs. Ministry/White Mantle would be pretty cool.

Narcemus.1348:

I think Logan might just break the treaty to get his woman back, and we’d have the war, and those petty Destiny’s Edge squabbles again.

Rytlock: You Killed an Imperator!
Logan: Well He Married My Queen!
Rytlock: ROAR!
Logan: ARRRGH!

*Fighting Insues
*Elder Dragons wipe everyone out.

And now is the point where I reveal I’m secretly a champion corrupted by Abbadon Kralkatorrik! With the Charr and Humans thrown into disarray, there will be nothing to stop my Master’s forces from conquering Ascalon and Kryta!