Guild Wars 2

You know guys, I’m not an expert about GW in general, and I played the previous games only recently before getting the 2, but I noticed that the story we are playing through is pretty much a more complicated version of the previous one, but follows exactly the same pattern, and that is Undeads.

To sum it up:
GW1 GW2
Lich Necro Zhaitan Dragon
Undead minions Undead Orrians

Ok, i don’t remember exactly about the undeads in GW1 but I remember they had a big part in the Prophecies.
My point is: in the end, we are fighting dead corpse come to life, again.
Of course the difficulty has increased, and since we are talking about 5 races fighting all together, we can’t except to fight any common necromancer, but only a dragon.
Infact now we have got dragons throughout the world.
My question is:
Do you think that IF a future expansion would be released, this would involve creatures or enemies inspired by previous enemies (abominations for Cantha and violet demons for Elona)?
Or they would create something completely unique, maybe related to something entirely new (like a completely new and unique kind of monsters and enemies, at least for the GW2 scenario)?

Eh, other than there being Orrian undead in both, the plots are vastly different.

Prophecies introduced a war between Ascalonian and charr, where Ascalonians then retreated to Kryta where the White Mantle were introduced to later be shown as an oppressive theocratic government and you join the rebels, then having to seek out ancient powers related to the gods and ancient races/creatures in order to fight against the White Mantle’s false gods. All the meanwhile since arriving at Kryta you’re dealing with an undead army off and on who’s led by someone who’s after the fulfillment of prophecies that deal with the extinction of the White Mantle’s false gods.

GW2’s story introduces with five races’ individual problems that merge into three large multi-racial orders working to combat world-ending forces known as Elder Dragons, and while you’re working on improving your standing within your Order and, simultaneously, helping to both increase the Order’s standings and aid other races against the Elder Dragons, the Undeath Elder Dragon decides he’s waited long enough and launches attacks on Lion’s Arch, escalating in a full-out war of the united Orders against Zhaitan’s forces.

Again, the only similarity is that there are Orrians who are “undead” (I’m hesitant to call Risen “undead” because, despite appearances, they don’t function like standard undead in the least).

Given this, no, I don’t think that we could expect the next expansion to deal with plague-made mutants or the one after that to deal with demons and the Mists. In fact, most likely, the next expansion will deal with one or more of the other Elder Dragons – and if not, Joko’s the most likely target, which means more undead (with possible sides of Kralkatorrik and Branded), followed by the Sinister Triad in the west (with possible sides of Mordremoth). Or they go a completely new route. Depending on how they want expansions to occur compared to the Living Story.

I believe you meant afflicted and I don’t think there is too high of a chance of fighting them or the margonites again, or it would raise some questions (possibly even confirm the theory of Kormir doing nothing).

Both should have been eradicated.

We know from Winds of Change that the Afflicted were eradicated, plus Shiro’s soul has been stripped of his envoy powers, so he cannot make more. And the margonites should have been mostly scattered after the death of Lord Jadoth and Mallyx their two greatest champions/leaders. If anything, there may be 1 or two surviving in outskirt type locations, but I highly doubt large armies of them will appear (same with Mursaat).

I’ve wondered about the undead connection. Though i doubt it was planned in advance, perhaps the presence of Zhaitan influenced the outcome of the cataclysm, modified the scroll’s magic or was the source. Maybe he’s the reason the Visier Khilbron became a Lich and the Orrians became undead. Just a thought.

Kyban.4031:

I’ve wondered about the undead connection. Though i doubt it was planned in advance, perhaps the presence of Zhaitan influenced the outcome of the cataclysm, modified the scroll’s magic or was the source. Maybe he’s the reason the Visier Khilbron became a Lich and the Orrians became undead. Just a thought.

Not at all.

Gandarel.5091:

Not at all.

I know there’s no lore precedent for it but I thought it might be an interesting explanation for the coincidence.

Yes, but if this were so the undead and the Lich Lord would act like Dragon Champions/Minions. This is not the case. We can see from The Great Destroyer and the Nornbear that Champions still act the same way whether the ED is asleep or not, so this is not a possibility. I believe it had more to do with either the magic on the scroll, or Vizier Khilbron’s necromancy (something which Liches have a very strong proficiency in).

I wasn’t saying Zhaitan caused it or they were his minions, just that his power had some affect on it. I don’t think they really explained where the Orrian undead came from or how Khilbron became a lich. Did Khilbron use necromancy before the scroll or did Abaddon have something to do with it?

Kyban.4031:

I wasn’t saying Zhaitan caused it or they were his minions, just that his power had some affect on it. I don’t think they really explained where the Orrian undead came from or how Khilbron became a lich. Did Khilbron use necromancy before the scroll or did Abaddon have something to do with it?

Well I see it as a possibility that Khilbron tapped into Zhaitan’s power like the asura used Primordus magic for their gate network. He is obviously not a minion of Zhaitan, but he doesn’t look like a standart undead. He is rather draconic instead of a skeleton or a mummy like other Liches shown in the game (or atleast what we also presume to be liches).

There are other hints that draconic energy was used in Tyria’s history, like the Charr may used Kralkatorrik’s energy for the searing, or the Flame Legion may used Primodrus’ power for their rituals. And of course the Inquest uses it frequently. None of them are minions of the dragons though.

@OP: I think it’s possible that Zhaitan being the main antagonist of the game is a reference to the Lich of Prophecies, but that doesn’t mean they will always go that route.

I’d agree it’s a possibility that Zhaitan’s magic may have been tapped into during the Cataclysm, but the problem I have with it is that most who tap into the power of a Dragon become corrupted. I don’t honestly know how the inquest do it safely (I assume they use conduits to channel the magic safely away from their own bodies), and the charr using Kralkatorrik’s magic is something that I will suggest was mitigated by the Titans to keep them from being corrupted. Or it could be that the brief interaction with the magic necessary for the Searing wasn’t enough to cause long term damage to those affected. I know this doesn’t make it so that they weren’t created by Zhaitan’s magic, I guess this is me just holding on to the last remnants of non-dragon-caused events found in Tyria, lol.

Kyban.4031:

I wasn’t saying Zhaitan caused it or they were his minions, just that his power had some affect on it. I don’t think they really explained where the Orrian undead came from or how Khilbron became a lich. Did Khilbron use necromancy before the scroll or did Abaddon have something to do with it?

Sounds like you’re trying to imply Zhaitan’s magic helped create undead. That would make them his minions if so, so you can’t be saying that yet saying they weren’t his minions.

The Prophecies manual actually does give an small explanation for the Orrian undead:

Many believe that they are the remnants of Orr, those lost souls who were so disturbed by the destruction of their home in the Cataclysm that they refuse to pass into the next life. Others believe there is a more sinister force motivating these creatures, a malevolent being who has raised the resting dead to do his bidding. Some even say this mysterious leader is a powerful lich lord who rules them all from behind the front lines.

It’s a rumors vs. rumors vs. rumors thing, but the rumors turned true (two of them, at least).

BuddhaKeks.4857:

There are other hints that draconic energy was used in Tyria’s history, like the Charr may used Kralkatorrik’s energy for the searing, or the Flame Legion may used Primodrus’ power for their rituals. And of course the Inquest uses it frequently. None of them are minions of the dragons though.

@OP: I think it’s possible that Zhaitan being the main antagonist of the game is a reference to the Lich of Prophecies, but that doesn’t mean they will always go that route.

At the first part: With the Searing, there are signs of Kralkatorrik’s influence though – earth elementals around the Searing crystals are uncontrollable, the Searing Effigy (charr Effigy infused with Searing magic) is also uncontrollable. Just because the casters of the Searing weren’t minions doesn’t mean the magic doesn’t twist.

As for the Flame Legion tapping into Primordus; if that’s the case, there’s actually a bit of possible influence, seen most with the Molten Alliance “dredge shamans.”

Finally, with the Inquest – they themselves don’t get in contact with the magic. But those who do certainly become dragon minions. There are oddities with Kudu, Kudu’s Monster, and Subject Alpha (they don’t seem tied to fanatic devotion of a dragon), but they’re certainly corrupted.

At the second part – I think it’s less of being a reference, and more of them wanting to bring up Orr, came up with an Elder Dragon being underneath, and worked on explaining it while realizing that an Elder Dragon so flipping close to everyone would obviously be the first major threat.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Sounds like you’re trying to imply Zhaitan’s magic helped create undead. That would make them his minions if so, so you can’t be saying that yet saying they weren’t his minions.

I was going for more of Zhaitan’s mere presence twisted the magic of the cataclysm to make it undead inclined.

Still, same effect would be had.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Still, same effect would be had.

Where does the “Dragon power always corrupts” info come from? I believe you but wouldn’t it have corrupted the bloodstone when it was used to strengthen it. (Though I don’t know where that piece of lore came from either.)

The dragonic magic corrupts comes from Crucible of Eternity story mode, sadly wiki doesn’t have it up. There are, of course, exceptions – such as the sylvari themselves and Forgotten magic – but otherwise it always corrupts, at least in the way that the Elder Dragons chose it to.

The bit on the bloodstone comes from Arah explorable mode:

Randall Greyston: Fantastic! The human gods not only sundered the seer’s bloodstone here-they increased its power.
Randall Greyston: They pulled the energies of Zhaitan himself, even though they did not know of the sleeping Elder Dragon.

Why using magic from the bloodstones doesn’t corrupt is unknown, however I have a feeling it is related to why the Forgotten’s magic is immune to dragon corruption.