Guild Wars 2

What are all the human nations and what happened to them?

orr, sunk then came back
ascalon, taken over by charr legions
elona, taken over by palawa joke, cut off from mainland by dragons
cantha, cut off by dragons – unknown after the rise of zhaitan

Orr – Sunk in a Cataclysm caused by Vizier Khilbron Only to be risen by Zhaitan later on.

Ascalon – Ravaged in the searing and consequently destroyed by the Foefire Now owned by the charr.

Kryta – Only known nation still standing

Istan, Kourna, Vabbi (Elona)- Conquered by Palawa Joko and his undead army.

Empire of the Dragon (Cantha) – Unkown (Lost contact centuries ago)

slight corrections:
Ascalon: what the others said, save for Ebonhawke, the last bastion of humanity there
Kryta: what the others said, but the old capital of Lion’s Arch was destroyed and rebuilt as a neutral city-state outside of human influence

istan, kourna, vabbi*

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Movement_of_the_World#Ascalon.2C_Kryta.2C_and_Orr read this onwards humans take up alot of the movement of the world

Istan, Kourna, and Vabbi I don’t think were ever really called their own nations. They were “provinces” – part of the ancient nation called Elona that divided and reunited several times (first united by the Primeval Kings, then the Grand Dynasty, split by Shattered Dynasty, then reunited by Turai Ossa, then unclear of division geopolitically but ruled separately akin to the USA’s states at least, then reunited under Joko).

I’d say that the provinces were effectively separate nations. They regarded themselves as part of the larger nation of Elona by tradition, but each was governed separately and, apart from the Sunspears that were really more Elona’s equivalent of the Vigil than a government body, there was no overarching organisation between them.

It can probably be considered analagous to Germany before it’s reunification in the 1800s – traditionally the region was still the Holy Roman Empire, but in practice it was a patchwork of independent nations that sometimes worked together and sometimes… didn’t.

Formally speaking, it’s unclear if they’re even technically a single nation under Joko now, as opposed to being a situation similar to the Warsaw Pact nations in Eastern Europe during the Cold War – namely that they’re nominally independent, but if they ever do anything that Joko doesn’t approve of and he finds out, there will be… consequences.

i’d go with their own outlook. A weak central government can still constitute one nation when dealing with several provinces.

Orr – Sunken and all killed. Now risen as undead.
Ascalon – Mostly killed during Foefire. Now only Ebonhawk remains.
Kryta – Last human nation on Tyria.
Istan, Kourna, Vabbi (Elona)- Now Palawa Joko’s slaves. Maybe all undead by now.
Empire of the Dragon (Cantha) – Kurzicks and Luxons both conquered by the Cantha Empire. Probably the most powerful human faction remaining.

On what you said.

1. Orr – Pretty much have been wiped out since the time of Guild Wars Prophecies (Post Searing).
2. Ascalon – This kingdom is actually getting a chance. The Charr, with the treaty, are actually giving lands over to the humans to use as their own. Humanity will have to fight against ogres to maintain control, but that is something they are used to. They might have room for a decent population by the time things wrap up.
3. Kryta – Well yeah, although I will say I think their lands are a little larger than we see in game. There is at least talk of settlements around Lake Doric which I believe is the lake to the east of Divinity’s Reach, so there is the possibility of Krytan settlements to the North and east of Divinity’s Reach, perhaps even west…
4. Elona – I highly doubt that Joko has made his whole country undead. The problem with undead is they eventually die of attrition, especially if you are fighting against dragon minions (which is speculated). Having access to living beings which reproduce gives him supplies for fresh troops. Plus it is mentioned that he has living humans working under him gaining reward for turning in Ossa decendents or Sunspears.
5. Cantha – I’d agree this is quite possibly the strongest human faction out there. The issue around them is how isolationist/hostile to other races they are. Because should we visit, we might not receive a very friendly welcome…

Did we get new lore on Cantha?

@Drax: For how Elona is now, given the Movement of the World, it seems that it is in a similar state to Cantha during GW1, though perhaps more totalitarian. Istan and Kourna were turned into vassal states, much like the Luxons and Kurzicks have been, while Vabbi itself was conquered outright thus isn’t technically a vassal but an extension of Joko’s actual nation. Thus the whole of Elona make up his empire.

Dustfinger.9510:

Did we get new lore on Cantha?

Not much. But we can speculate that Cantha will be the enemy this time around. 300 years changed everything.

@Narcemus: Your comment on Kryta can be regarded as confirmed – we asked the question at an interview, and it was revealed that Kryta does in fact go beyond the borders (something they wanted to show through having more zones to the west at least, in fact, but when push came to shove other priorities were higher). However, we were also told that what we see is the core of Kryta – those other territories and settlements exist, but the lion’s share of Kryta’s population and resource base is in the explorable regions.

@CHIPS: That’s certainly a valid speculation, but it’s also worth noting that the time since we last heard from Cantha could have changed things around a few more times. The situation in Cantha can be pretty much whatever the story team decide they want it to be when (sadly, given their current policies, IF) we finally get there.

CHIPS.6018:

Not much. But we can speculate that Cantha will be the enemy this time around. 300 years changed everything.

Why would you speculate that Cantha would be an enemy? Just because they had a xenophobic emperor before they closed their borders? That isn’t much to go by, and like you said; 250 years could have changed everything.

We could speculate that elements within the Empire could be possibly future enemies, especially the MoP, but the entire Empire itself? Probably not. It would be too much of a hassle, because can you imagine an army trying to invade or conquer Kaineng City? It’s what nightmares are made of combat wise for armies: close quarters, poorly structured buildings (if that hasn’t changed), maze like design, dense civilian populations, resistant civilian populations, and it is large, huge, is every sense of the word.

Any invading armies would get eaten alive in Kaineng.

Dustfinger.9510:

Did we get new lore on Cantha?

No, that’s still not a charr land. You can move on.

Gandarel.5091:

Dustfinger.9510:

Did we get new lore on Cantha?

No, that’s still not a charr land. You can move on.

I still haven’t made that move to charr fanboi. Those in the charr forum think Im norn fanboi for the crime of thinking individual norn tend to be physically stronger than charr. Funny thing is fanbois tend to think anyone who isn’t their own brand of fanboi must be a fanboi for someone else. -_-

OT: Without current lore on Cantha, we shouldn’t really say it is (or isn’t) the most powerful human nation, right now.

It would be nice to see, if we ever do get to go too Cantha, is that maybe it has evolved magically. It would be a nice contrast to Tyria(continent) evolving technologically.

Dustfinger.9510:

Gandarel.5091:

Dustfinger.9510:

Did we get new lore on Cantha?

No, that’s still not a charr land. You can move on.

I still haven’t made that move to charr fanboi. Those in the charr forum think Im norn fanboi for the crime of thinking individual norn tend to be physically stronger than charr. Funny thing is fanbois tend to think anyone who isn’t their own brand of fanboi must be a fanboi for someone else. -_-

OT: Without current lore on Cantha, we shouldn’t really say it is (or isn’t) the most powerful human nation, right now.

Agreed, cantha is probably the strongest one now. In the end of GW1 we even vanquished most of the gangs, and with the end of the Kurzick/Luxon conflict, I’d say it is pretty united too.

Unless the vassal states started an independency-war. Or Cantha has its own 6 dragons. :P Which is unlikely.

Erukk.1408:

CHIPS.6018:

Not much. But we can speculate that Cantha will be the enemy this time around. 300 years changed everything.

Why would you speculate that Cantha would be an enemy? Just because they had a xenophobic emperor before they closed their borders? That isn’t much to go by, and like you said; 250 years could have changed everything.

We could speculate that elements within the Empire could be possibly future enemies, especially the MoP, but the entire Empire itself? Probably not. It would be too much of a hassle, because can you imagine an army trying to invade or conquer Kaineng City? It’s what nightmares are made of combat wise for armies: close quarters, poorly structured buildings (if that hasn’t changed), maze like design, dense civilian populations, resistant civilian populations, and it is large, huge, is every sense of the word.

Any invading armies would get eaten alive in Kaineng.

All signs points to MoP (with the emperor being a member/close friend) pretty much running the show 200 years ago. They for sure hates all non human races. They might even hate all non Canthan. At best, they hate 4 of the 5 races of the Pact, that makes being friends with them impossible.

Sure things could have changed in the last 200 years. But that would be counter intuitive. What’s the point of spending all the time setting up the MoP and a xenophobic emperor when, by the time the players goes to Cantha in GW2, Cantha is back to where it was in GW1?

The leadership of Cantha will almost certainly be the enemy. I do agree that certain groups (e.g. civilians, Obsidian Flame, and other rebel groups) might be allies.

Yeah, we could talk about Cantha until we’re blue in the face, but truth is anything could happen. For all we know the wardens rose up and pushed all humanity within Cantha to near extinction. It’s highly unlikely, but with the right wording they could very well make it possible.

I want to note, though, in Winds of Change we didn’t wipe out the gangs. We did some major damage to them, to say the least, but they joined us in taking out Reiko. And they got new, slightly more normal, leaders. All we really wiped out was the Afflicted, and even after they were “wiped” some Shiro’ken and such still existed in places. I wouldn’t be surprised if one or two escaped and lurk in the depths of the Echovald Forest or something to that effect. What I did like about the end of Winds of Change, though, was that not everyone switched to the mentality of the Ministry of Purity. I was glad to see that there was still a ray of hope in some of the people of Tsumei Village, Xin Ji, was the girl’s name I believe. I feel there may be people there that aren’t gung-ho about killing everything foreign to them.

I know we haven’t wiped the gangs, but we definitely started something. Criminals were deserting their gangs and i don’t think that stopped. Probably the same happened to them as to the White Mante – they are still there, but only as a small group of zealots, who may actually cause some great trouble, because the have some trump cards that noone expects. But atm they may not be too significant.

However.. i would change my standing and say Elona is the strongest. Vabbi, Kourna and Istan still got human population, probably significant, because this way Palawa will always have reinforcements for his undead army. A united continent under a militaristic leader who has undeads armies along the elite troops of the living + Junundus and great necromancer power.

It might be the strongest in manpower, but when you look at dictatorship and oppression two things usually fall behind, technological development and culture. They may be the “strongest” but when it comes to everything else, I would put Kryta as being much further developed people group.

My view/hopes for Cantha:

The known facts of modern Cantha is that Usoku began his campaign to isolate it in 1127 AE; however, the tengu didn’t arrive in continental Tyria until roughly 1219 AE, and it should also be noted that Cobiah had been to Cantha in that year as well (via royal trade), meaning trade had either re-opened or remained opened for nearly a century after Usoku’s reign began (even if limited only to special royal-decree trades). Furthermore, per the Movement of the World there are modern Canthan sailors washing ashore – this means that Cantha’s sending folks out, who are likely being taken out by the deep sea dragon. This means either they’re in a naval war (could be with Joko, could be with the DSD), or they’re trying to make contact with Tyria periodically.

Politically Speaking
After the Ministry of Purity/our GW1 PCs’ purge of the leaderships, the Am Fah and Jade Brotherhood seem to have gotten taken over by better-minded individuals willing to work together. This would mean the centuries long gang-turf warfare would finally come to an end, even though they weren’t wiped out, and not only this but they were unified in the xenophobic practices of the Ministry of Purity. This means that the newly unified Am Fah and Jade Brotherhood would serve as the foundation of La Résistance within Cantha.

However, looking at Canthan history, we have a lot of cases where Canthan Emperors redacted their fathers’ – or in some cases, grandfathers’ – actions. Yian Zho (2nd) redacted Kaineng Tah (1st); Senvho (24th) redacted Singtah (23rd); Hanjai’s successor (unnamed; 28th) redacted Hanjai (27th); Kintah (30th) redacted Hanjai’s successor (28th); Usoku (32nd) redacted Kizu (31st) and Kintah (30th). In the ~200 years since, Usoku’s successor or following successor may have redacted Usoku.

Slap these facts together, I believe that Cantha’s political state will be one of three situations:

• Ministry of Purity’s influence still reigns supreme. This means no emperor has redacted Usoku yet. However, there would be a resistence led by the successors of the Am Fah and Jade Brotherhood.
• Usoku’s actions got redacted, and Cantha’s openly trying to re-estate contact and trade.
• The state is split. The Emperor itself could go either way, more likely to be anti-Usoku, and the Celestial Ministry due to its ineffectiveness may have likely been replaced fully by the Ministry of Purity. There’d not so much be a power struggle, but more of an uncertainty of action – Cantha does politics differently than Kryta, so there’d be no attempts to undermine each other politically but rather through the use of assassinations. As such, the successors of the Am Fah/Jade Brotherhood and the successors of the Obsidian Flame are likely the real power behind the politics, being the ones who work in the shadows and determine which contracts – if any – they would take or not. Politicians have to play nice, or else they’d find a drink that doesn’t taste quite right.

-more in next post-

Economically Speaking
For Cantha’s economical state, I’ll look to our own history. Merchantilism is the act of trading only within one’s own national boundaries – within one’s country and the country’s colonies. This is effectively what Cantha would do if they went into isolation.

Cantha has a history of going into and out of isolation, however with one exception their isolation has always been prior to the Jade Wind. The Jade Wind not only turned the Jade Sea and Echovald Forest into stone (or gemstone, as it were with the Jade Sea), but also forced the expansion of Kaineng City due to a mass influx of refugees. This resulted in the mass of a maze city full of sewers and slums we see in GW1. Before this expansion, northern Cantha was known for having lush forests and rolling hills. Furthermore, Cantha’s first opening of trade occurred when Shing Jea Island was almost overlogged, and had to agriculturally recover.

Now, with the resources removed thanks to the Jade Wind, Cantha wouldn’t have enough self-sustaining resources to hold its empire for long, probably why trading was still open up to 1219 AE. With Cantha forced into merchantalism for 100 years, there’s really only two outcomes available:

Cantha hit an industrial revolution, like England did by discovering a new power source when Napoleon forced the British Isles into merchantalism. Or Cantha was hit dangerously in their economy like Spain when they attempted it willingly. Given the lack of resources Cantha has thanks to Shiro Tagachi, I suspect the latter occurred.

This means that Cantha, economically speaking, is possibly in worse shape than ever. And that’s not to mention the millions of gold Usoku put into expanding the military – how much do you think that damaged the rest of Cantha? Probably a lot.

Overall
I suspect that Cantha’s in a state of disrepair. The politics move smoothly but are split between traditionalists (Ministry of Purity) and radicals (Am Fah/Jade Brotherhood) with the Emperor inbetween, but they still manage to work together to preserve their nation as much as possible; at the same time, Cantha cannot be self-sustaining, and thus need to find external resources. This forces them – begrudgingly or not – to break their isolation and seek out others. Given the state of Tyria, this may mean they’ve gone and made deals with Palawa Joko for trade.

Aside from Konigs great post that opens up a lot of possibilities to think about, I suspect the devs haven’t decided on what happened to Cantha in 250 years. But the above post makes it clear that Cantha isn’t ’definitely the strongest human nation’ or even ‘likely the strongest’. (Which is different than saying it ‘definitely isn’t the strongest human nation’)

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Economically Speaking
For Cantha’s economical state, I’ll look to our own history. Merchantilism is the act of trading only within one’s own national boundaries – within one’s country and the country’s colonies. This is effectively what Cantha would do if they went into isolation.

Cantha has a history of going into and out of isolation, however with one exception their isolation has always been prior to the Jade Wind. The Jade Wind not only turned the Jade Sea and Echovald Forest into stone (or gemstone, as it were with the Jade Sea), but also forced the expansion of Kaineng City due to a mass influx of refugees. This resulted in the mass of a maze city full of sewers and slums we see in GW1. Before this expansion, northern Cantha was known for having lush forests and rolling hills. Furthermore, Cantha’s first opening of trade occurred when Shing Jea Island was almost overlogged, and had to agriculturally recover.

Now, with the resources removed thanks to the Jade Wind, Cantha wouldn’t have enough self-sustaining resources to hold its empire for long, probably why trading was still open up to 1219 AE. With Cantha forced into merchantalism for 100 years, there’s really only two outcomes available:

Cantha hit an industrial revolution, like England did by discovering a new power source when Napoleon forced the British Isles into merchantalism. Or Cantha was hit dangerously in their economy like Spain when they attempted it willingly. Given the lack of resources Cantha has thanks to Shiro Tagachi, I suspect the latter occurred.

This means that Cantha, economically speaking, is possibly in worse shape than ever. And that’s not to mention the millions of gold Usoku put into expanding the military – how much do you think that damaged the rest of Cantha? Probably a lot.

Overall
I suspect that Cantha’s in a state of disrepair. The politics move smoothly but are split between traditionalists (Ministry of Purity) and radicals (Am Fah/Jade Brotherhood) with the Emperor inbetween, but they still manage to work together to preserve their nation as much as possible; at the same time, Cantha cannot be self-sustaining, and thus need to find external resources. This forces them – begrudgingly or not – to break their isolation and seek out others. Given the state of Tyria, this may mean they’ve gone and made deals with Palawa Joko for trade.

What you said is very valid. In fact I have no doubt that Cantha is indeed lacking in resource and have a poor economy. Even back in GW1 they got slums everywhere. But I would like to offer an alternative.

When a nation have a strong military, but lacks resources and poor economy, war is usually the outcome.

If anyone remembers Winds of Change, you should know that the MoP troops were the best trained soldiers in the whole GW1 game. They are the only human faction with a mass amount of level 28 troops, making them almost on par with the demons of DoA. Furthermore it seems more of their members are fairly young, making this level of training and discipline all the more impressive. My necro felt like an outdated old woman by the time I faced them, and I only won because I got more battle experience.

TBH I highly doubt Cantha have no one in Kryta. I am sure they have a few spies lurking around. (Delaqua I am looking at you.) That’s what people do before a war; They spy on a nation to understand it.

I had long suspected that Cantha will invade Kryta. The players will defend Kryta, and eventually push back across the sea into Cantha. All the while dealing with the sea elder dragon.

we know that at some point, osaku united cantha using the military and caused an isolation in cantha, however, after that, the dragons cut off communication with the continent, sometime in the last few years, something may have changed, we already know that cantha was trading with kryta pre-zhaitan (sea of sorrows book)

CHIPS.6018:

When a nation have a strong military, but lacks resources and poor economy, war is usually the outcome.

Who did Cantha have to attack a century ago? Fifty years ago?

Answer: No one.

Sure, they could wage war on Tyria now, but if they haven’t yet, why would they now? No reason. They could have waged war with Elona too, but if they didn’t 5 years ago when we last heard of Elona, why would they now?

Cantha was isolated, there is no one near them. They’ve already resorted to war, and conquered their entire continent. Afterwards, they isolated themselves. They kept trade open – probably for resources, imho – but they lost that 100 years ago (roughly). Since then, they’ve been non-existent. If they were interested in waging war, you can bet they would have done so against Zhaitan, if for no reason but to get to us and take out resources. But there are no Canthan risen, showing they had done no such thing. Last we heard of Elona, prior to Kralkatorrik’s rise, the only threat to Joko was an insurgency called the Order of Whispers and Zhaitan pushing southeast.

War is, historically speaking, the outcome – if you’re so deprived of resources needed to live, you’ll get desperate enough to risk your life to get them, since you’ll die without anyways. But that doesn’t seem to be the case here, otherwise we’d know it to be so.

CHIPS.6018:

If anyone remembers Winds of Change, you should know that the MoP troops were the best trained soldiers in the whole GW1 game. They are the only human faction with a mass amount of level 28 troops, making them almost on par with the demons of DoA. Furthermore it seems more of their members are fairly young, making this level of training and discipline all the more impressive. My necro felt like an outdated old woman by the time I faced them, and I only won because I got more battle experience.

You’re mixing mechanics and lore. Argument invalid.

Ministry of Purity is made stronger, mechanically, because they are 1) enemies and 2) end-game content (endest-game even – it is the last thing added to the game).

In the story, a lot of the Ministry of Purity were losing their members in all those off-screen battles, because they were inexperienced and not fully trained. People were caught up in the morale and just picked up a sword and went to fight. Though not highlighted outright, it was shown pretty well in the side dialogues shown post-quests.

CHIPS.6018:

TBH I highly doubt Cantha have no one in Kryta. I am sure they have a few spies lurking around. (Delaqua I am looking at you.) That’s what people do before a war; They spy on a nation to understand it.

I had long suspected that Cantha will invade Kryta. The players will defend Kryta, and eventually push back across the sea into Cantha. All the while dealing with the sea elder dragon.

We know that there were Canthans in Kryta prior to Zhaitan’s rise. But they were all cut off with said rise. Hao Luen, the grandfater of Captain Hao Luen, was one such Canthan.

Unless Cantha’s lack of resources is only recent, they have no need to invade Kryta. Furthermore, if they invade anyone… it will probably be a non-human nation. They are xenophobistic after all (historically at least).

IMO it makes little sense for Cantha to invade other countries. The Ministry of Purity built it’s war based on the fear of the Canthan people. They showed canthans the dangers of outsiders and pushed them to remove the outsiders in order to make themselves a safer future. Pushing the fear induced isolation into expansion is a complete and total change of mind-set. I’m not stating that it could not have happened, but inducing the last known mind-set required a massive population destroying plague.

As to cantha’s resources, the best we can do at the moment is speculate. Rumors and such kept pointing towards the Jade Sea and Echovald starting to heal. Whatever that may mean, it is possible that they now have a large resource of fish and lumber, and with population lost, some of the slums may have been leveled in order to produce agriculture. Plus we can’t forget the large parts of the continent that have remained completely un-explored. We have no clue what kind of resources they may have tapped into within that region. I am not saying that this is the way it is, but in general, it is as much a possibility as what Konig stated.

Narcemus.1348:

Plus we can’t forget the large parts of the continent that have remained completely un-explored.

Where is this? Unfogged by us doesn’t mean unexplored by the people.

I meant un-explored by us, lol. Meaning we have no clue what resources may be available because we, ourselves, have not been there.

Cantha’s unurbanized landscapes have been explained as forested and/or rolling hills – the same as pre-Kaineng City expantion. I believe.

To Konig,

Cantha didn’t invade before because they were recovering from their own little civil war/internal struggle.

Japan attacked America in WW2 purely for resources (e.g. oil) in the Philippines. So yes resource is a valid reason to go to war over, and has been done. I am pretty sure the average civilian in Japan does not need oil. So why fight? Because the Japanese Imperial Army and Navy needs oil, and that government (e.g. emperor and prime minister) decided that’s enough reason to fight a war over.

Another reason to fight: Living Space. Room for growth. I don’t need to explain where that came from.

Cantha would be dealing with the ocean dragon before Zhaitan. Zhaitan is in Kryta. The ocean dragon could already dead, kill by Cantha (given how much the general player base hates underwater combat, this might very well be the case). Kryta is next on the plate.

Cantha might very well offers Kryta peace in the beginning, on the condition that they break their alliance with all other races (Charr, Norn, Asura, sylvari, etc) and instead join Cantha to conquer all of them. “Humans are the superior race, and our superiority over other races must be restored, just like ancient times” they say. Cantha killing the ocean dragon with only humans further strengthened this belief. Kryta and the players, being good guys, will naturally refuse. And war is the outcome.

You have to remember that Cantha’s friendship, from the past, only extends to Kryta and Ascalon. Did any Charr or Norn went to Cantha to help them out back in the days? Nope. It was Ascalonians, Krytans and Elonians. They got no relationship with any other non-human races. All they have is racism and hate toward them.

if the government of cantha is still like usoku (which we dont know yet, it may have changed ideology again) and we do go to war, there’ll be a rebel army somewhere, maybe even kuunavang can help us

it may be that the current emperor is a good guy, but the ministry of purity have gotten too strong and made kaineng a ‘utopia’ where people are kept ignorant of the rest of the world/dragons – e.g. the earth kingdom in the avatar: last airbender series, thus, we’d have to help the emperor deal with the ministry of purity

Getefix.9150:

it may be that the current emperor is a good guy, but the ministry of purity have gotten too strong and made kaineng a ‘utopia’ where people are kept ignorant of the rest of the world/dragons – e.g. the earth kingdom in the avatar: last airbender series, thus, we’d have to help the emperor deal with the ministry of purity

I would prefer something like this actually. I’m not sure how well it could be pulled off, though. Some games just have a hard time pulling off a good political storyline, and it doesn’t help that a lot of gamers just constantly skip through plot filled dialogue and text. (I’m guessing all they hear is “Wah wah wah wah” Charlie Brown style.) So the game developers don’t see much point is making the storyline too deep.

Erukk.1408:

Getefix.9150:

it may be that the current emperor is a good guy, but the ministry of purity have gotten too strong and made kaineng a ‘utopia’ where people are kept ignorant of the rest of the world/dragons – e.g. the earth kingdom in the avatar: last airbender series, thus, we’d have to help the emperor deal with the ministry of purity

I would prefer something like this actually. I’m not sure how well it could be pulled off, though. Some games just have a hard time pulling off a good political storyline, and it doesn’t help that a lot of gamers just constantly skip through plot filled dialogue and text. (I’m guessing all they hear is “Wah wah wah wah” Charlie Brown style.) So the game developers don’t see much point is making the storyline too deep.

What really made GW1 lore great were politics. But since we all kno what’s the level of the story now.. I start to hope that we will never see new regions, so the lore can be preserved.

Erukk.1408:

Getefix.9150:

it may be that the current emperor is a good guy, but the ministry of purity have gotten too strong and made kaineng a ‘utopia’ where people are kept ignorant of the rest of the world/dragons – e.g. the earth kingdom in the avatar: last airbender series, thus, we’d have to help the emperor deal with the ministry of purity

I would prefer something like this actually. I’m not sure how well it could be pulled off, though. Some games just have a hard time pulling off a good political storyline, and it doesn’t help that a lot of gamers just constantly skip through plot filled dialogue and text. (I’m guessing all they hear is “Wah wah wah wah” Charlie Brown style.) So the game developers don’t see much point is making the storyline too deep.

The existence of the players and this forum and it’s activity level alone should be reason enough to make the storyline deep… Players built into the lore/rp communities are very avid fans and are also very likely to open up their wallets to support game companies that return the favor by giving them a deep, well written, world for them to dive into.

CHIPS.6018:

Cantha didn’t invade before because they were recovering from their own little civil war/internal struggle.

A struggle that would have long ended at least by Zhaitan’s time of rising, if not earlier?

Not convinced.

CHIPS.6018:

-snip totally unrelated Japan WWII ref-

…That’s not the only reason (as “purely for” means). But that’s off topic.

CHIPS.6018:

Another reason to fight: Living Space. Room for growth. I don’t need to explain where that came from.

In terms of Cantha, I think the Afflicted took care of that. All they’d need to do is – as Narcemus said – clear out the bad structures and rebuild in better standings.

CHIPS.6018:

Cantha would be dealing with the ocean dragon before Zhaitan. Zhaitan is in Kryta. The ocean dragon could already dead, kill by Cantha (given how much the general player base hates underwater combat, this might very well be the case). Kryta is next on the plate.

….

Zhaitan is in Orr, south of Kryta. Yes, the deep sea dragon may be a closer threat. We have no way of telling if 1) it is near Cantha in the Unending Ocean or 2) if its influenced has reached the ocean surface.

Nonetheless, if they were trying to invade Kryta (rather than the closer Elona), again, they would first have to land at Orr (as it is closer to Cantha than Kryta) or the Tarnished Coast and would far more than likely attack non-humans, given that they are xenophobic.

If they intend to invade, they would have done so already. They’ve had a century after the war stopped fighting, if not far more than.

I do hope they don’t kill off the DSD… it would be an excellent reason to expand upon the underwater races (krait, quaggan, largos) and fix underwater combat… though given ArenaNet’s actions with TA F/U, apparently removing content is easier than an easy fix…

CHIPS.6018:

Cantha might very well offers Kryta peace in the beginning, on the condition that they break their alliance with all other races (Charr, Norn, Asura, sylvari, etc) and instead join Cantha to conquer all of them. “Humans are the superior race, and our superiority over other races must be restored, just like ancient times” they say. Cantha killing the ocean dragon with only humans further strengthened this belief. Kryta and the players, being good guys, will naturally refuse. And war is the outcome.

Sure, that could work.

But nonetheless, if Cantha has been trying to invade since they began needing resources and land, they would have a while ago.

CHIPS.6018:

You have to remember that Cantha’s friendship, from the past, only extends to Kryta and Ascalon. Did any Charr or Norn went to Cantha to help them out back in the days? Nope. It was Ascalonians, Krytans and Elonians. They got no relationship with any other non-human races. All they have is racism and hate toward them.

Orr and Elona too. And they made deals with asura (even if indirectly). See P.O.X.

But those races weren’t around as allies back then. But irrelevant given their xenophobia. And this racism and hate really goes to non-Canthans, just extends greater towards non-humans. The other races not aiding in Cantha’s troubled times (especially when the other nations and races were either not part of known civilizations or having their own troubles) is 100% irrelevant to why Cantha is xenophobic.

Getefix.9150:

it may be that the current emperor is a good guy, but the ministry of purity have gotten too strong and made kaineng a ‘utopia’ where people are kept ignorant of the rest of the world/dragons – e.g. the earth kingdom in the avatar: last airbender series, thus, we’d have to help the emperor deal with the ministry of purity

That’s called a dystopia, btw.

And one of my preferred outcomes. Outright war being waged by Cantha is just… not very creative.

Erukk.1408:

So the game developers don’t see much point is making the storyline too deep.

This day. I cry.