All magic is dragon magic

All magic is dragon magic

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Posted by: Narcemus.1348

Narcemus.1348

Mind you, Narcemus’ idea is an interesting one – that when energies of opposing dragons interact, they cleanse one another. This could be how Caladbolg was able to cleanse Zhaitan’s corruption from the Source of Orr.

I was just thinking that last night as I was playing through the new current events. Though that would assume that Caladbolg has access to the Plant Dragon Magic, which is an unknown.

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Posted by: DarcShriek.5829

DarcShriek.5829

Could Aurene’s purpose be to have domain over all six spheres, therefore cleansing all magic?

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

@Narcemus

Your theory has interesting implications, part, some, all, or none of which are accurate (I haven’t checked the lore, but lets pretend its fact):

If Dragons sorted domains out of food for millennia:

1. then there should be a noticeable amount of magic missing specifically that domain

  • e.g the ice, fire, vegetation, water, and crystal areas from the thaumanova reactor are all from Zhaitan’s table scraps. The magic it discarded after absorbing death/shadow.

2. the leylines quickly absorb discarded dragon magic so the discards aren’t noticed.

  • not all ley magic is a complete spectrum.
  • your cleansed corruption flows to the confluences, where at least 6 sets of opposing domains combine to form pure magic.

3a. Dragons create their opposing element

  • like green and magenta, if these domains are inverses they don’t exist simultaneously.
  • e.g fire magic is defined by the absence of ice magic and vice versa. And if Jormag were to eat Primordius’ cleansed magic it would discard pure fire magic

3b. the magic isn’t noticeable or immediately absorbed by the leyline, instead it is the magic we all use. (all magic is dragon magic)

  • we know there are at least 6 sets of opposing domains
  • Substance A could have 5/6 sets, with one unpaired domain, and is not really corruptive.
  • Substance B could have 0 sets, and one unpaired domain, and is very corruptive.
  • i.e the magic dragons retain becomes corruption and the magic they remove one domain from is in the bloodstones.

3c. no dragons = no magic.

  • Do all beings have chak organs?
  • what if without the dragons there would only be chaos magic?
  • so far the stuff we have cast with ley line magic does not resemble the schools.
“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

(edited by Daniel Handler.4816)

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Posted by: Narcemus.1348

Narcemus.1348

See responses inside of quote.

@Narcemus

Your theory has interesting implications, part, some, all, or none of which are accurate (I haven’t checked the lore, but lets pretend its fact):

If Dragons sorted domains out of food for millennia:

1. then there should be a noticeable amount of magic missing specifically that domain

  • e.g the ice, fire, vegetation, water, and crystal areas from the thaumanova reactor are all from Zhaitan’s table scraps. The magic it discarded after absorbing death/shadow.

- I don’t believe that this is necessarily true. For one, there is a massive surplus of magic in the world, even before the death of Zhaitan and Mordremoth. On top of this, the Elder dragons move on a pretty slow pace, if it is to be believed that their cycle of sleep and awakening takes roughly 10,000 years, and on that scale, they all awoke pretty close to each other. So it can be expected that they have been taking out magic at a roughly equal pace. That said, nothing says that all leylines hold equal amounts of all magical, we have seen different colors of leylines throughout.

2. the leylines quickly absorb discarded dragon magic so the discards aren’t noticed.

  • not all ley magic is a complete spectrum.
  • your cleansed corruption flows to the confluences, where at least 6 sets of opposing domains combine to form pure magic.

- Also not entirely true. We know that some Dragon magic exists in the world and can be tapped into, I feel like this might have been shown in Thaumanova. So some Dragon magic might be floating free in the world, when and how it actually causes corruption is unknown.

3a. Dragons create their opposing element

  • like green and magenta, if these domains are inverses they don’t exist simultaneously.
  • e.g fire magic is defined by the absence of ice magic and vice versa. And if Jormag were to eat Primordius’ cleansed magic it would discard pure fire magic

- Again, I feel like there is a difference between ley magic and Dragon magic. Something that the ED’s do that changes or twists it. So what Jormag would dispel isn’t fire Dragon magic, but instead every other type of ley magic, keeping in mind that he would also consume death magic, mind magic, shadow, etc… these would also be dispelled as well (assuming ley magic and Dragon magic have similar spectrums)

3b. the magic isn’t noticeable or immediately absorbed by the leyline, instead it is the magic we all use. (all magic is dragon magic)

  • we know there are at least 6 sets of opposing domains
  • Substance A could have 5/6 sets, with one unpaired domain, and is not really corruptive.
  • Substance B could have 0 sets, and one unpaired domain, and is very corruptive.
  • i.e the magic dragons retain becomes corruption and the magic they remove one domain from is in the bloodstones.

- I would say that from my position it would be that all Dragon magic is Ley magic, but not all let magic is the twisted/corrupted Dragon magic.

3c. no dragons = no magic.

  • Do all beings have chak organs?
  • what if without the dragons there would only be chaos magic?
  • so far the stuff we have cast with ley line magic does not resemble the schools.

- I wouldn’t agree with this last one at all. I feel like ley magic is something that exists naturally in Tyria and is consumed and twisted by the dragons. This would mean that before and after the dragons there would always be magic in Tyria. They just manipulate what exists within the world.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

@Konig

You are contradicting yourself.

The Searing changed the environment in ways mirroring Kralkatorrik. But as you said that does not make it corruption, or dragon energy. You can’t turn around and say the opposite for the Thaumanova Reactor because your definition is incongruous with its aftermath.

  • The Ice area you point to is spawning unstable ice formations. Jormag’s magic spawns corrupted ice formations. Not only is there a naming difference, they look different.
  • no creatures have been corrupted by being in proximity to these new environments

Did the dragon energy cleanse itself during the explosion? Was there forgotten magic in the reactor? Perhaps a process we don’t understand.

Regardless, canon dragon energy is not acting like its counterparts.

The Searing did not change the environment in ways mirroring Kralkatorrik, who twisted the plants and even the very soil into crystalline structures, even the water had become tainted by Kralkatorrik’s corruptive breath. The Searing, however, was simply a matter of burning the land (hence why it’s called the Searing). It’s as simple as that. The Searing was basically burning crystals falling that caused a nation-wide forest fire. Even within two years, new plants were beginning to grow (albeit very, very poorly). But no new plants grow in the lands touched by Kralkatorrik’s corruption.

  • They actually use the same model.
  • True, but you do not get corrupted just by wandering in the Dragonbrand or in Orr. No, you need to be influenced by the dragon corruption itself.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Rognik.2579

Rognik.2579

As far as the Searing goes, everything in Ascalon was affected… except the humans. Those who survived the encounter did not twist or change like the Branded have. However, the Searing did turn the clear-flowing rivers into sludge-filled muck pools. I had always wondered how Adelbern’s Ascalonians survived in such an inhospitable place. But I agree, the Brand is much more desolate and foreboding than Seared Ascalon was.

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

@ Narcemus,
I understand you replies, and mostly agree, with your replies to 1-2. But let me rephrase part of 3.

1: Dragons create their opposing element

According to your theory:

  • when the dragons are finding what to eat, they remove their domains from a source, then they discard the rest.
  • dragon ice + dragon fire = cleansed ice and fire
  • e.g Jormag eating pure magic would discard 4 sets of cleansed domains, 2 pure unpaired domains + whatever non-dragon domains were left

Unless the opposing domains are random, which they do no appear to be, cleansed sets will oppose each other during materialization.

  • and if all parts of the discarded magic are equally active
  • and the original source was the full spectrum
  • then only the opposing domains of the dragon that discarded it will manifest
  • i.e dragons create their opposing element (to a degree),

2: no dragons = no magic

  • magic cannot be created or destroy, it only changes form
  • what if the uncorrupted domains the ED passively extrude are the only source of that domain?
  • e.g all necromancer death magic is cast using Zhaitans poop, mortals cannot make it themselves.

@konig.

Kralkatorrik is the crystal/sky dragon, and crystals fell from the sky. Changing the air into crystalline structures would fit its MO.

The ice formations are the same shape , different names, different colors (corrupted is closer to the corrupted ice turquoise standard).

We don’t get corrupted because we are the player character. Orr has corrupted newly dead in the region. And the dragonbrand has corrupted creatures during and after the initial blast. The thaumanova fallout has done neither.

The dragon energy produced vegetation that does not resemble mordremoths creations. Or, based on the elemental keys, it produced earth that non-corrupted plants are growing on despite the tainted soil.

Your definition is still incongruous with the fallout.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

(edited by Daniel Handler.4816)

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Posted by: Narcemus.1348

Narcemus.1348

@ Narcemus,
I understand you replies, and mostly agree, with your replies to 1-2. But let me rephrase part of 3.

1: Dragons create their opposing element

According to your theory:

  • when the dragons are finding what to eat, they remove their domains from a source, then they discard the rest.
  • dragon ice + dragon fire = cleansed ice and fire
  • e.g Jormag eating pure magic would discard 4 sets of cleansed domains, 2 pure unpaired domains + whatever non-dragon domains were left

Unless the opposing domains are random, which they do no appear to be, cleansed sets will oppose each other during materialization.

  • and if all parts of the discarded magic are equally active
  • and the original source was the full spectrum
  • then only the opposing domains of the dragon that discarded it will manifest
  • i.e dragons create their opposing element (to a degree),

2: no dragons = no magic

  • magic cannot be created or destroy, it only changes form
  • what if the uncorrupted domains the ED passively extrude are the only source of that domain?
  • e.g all necromancer death magic is cast using Zhaitans poop, mortals cannot make it themselves.

I think I understand your stance on the second part better, but even with that stance I slightly disagree, although with all of this discussion there is a high level of speculation going on. On my opinion, ley magic, in and of itself and without Dragon manipulation, has a spectrum. I personally believe that it resembles the spectrum of Dragon magic, in fact, I believe that the spectrum of Dragon magic is, itself, modeled after the spectrum of ley magic. This is why I do not believe that when, say, Jormag consumes pure ley magic and discards all that is not his domain, that he creates fire magic. I believe that he merely filters out and keeps what is his while allowing the rest to flow on through. This would be similar to, as you said, the chak organ. It doesn’t create plant magic while filtering out death magic, it merely just removes one spectrum from the rest. This said, Jormag only keeps and corrupts ice magic (and whatever his second spectrum is) while allowing the rest to dissipate into the world. This all said, I don’t believe that there is and hard evidence at all between my opinion and your opinion of how this works, so, in all reality this discussion is a moot point until we learn more. So for now I will back off, unless there are more questions about the specifics of my theory.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Kralkatorrik is the crystal/sky dragon, and crystals fell from the sky. Changing the air into crystalline structures would fit its MO.

If you actually watch the cinematic, something shoots up into the sky from the cauldron then crystals scatter. Rather than “changing the air into crystals” it seems more that “small crystals were shot up into the sky, grew in flight, and fell across the land”.

And either way, the land itself is never corrupted – as I said in the very beginning, the Searing is not a case of corruption, but was powered by magic from an Elder Dragon, thus disproving your claim that “all sufficiently concentrated/quantitied magic corrupts unless it’s magic from the Mists.”

The ice formations are the same shape , different names, different colors (corrupted is closer to the corrupted ice turquoise standard).

I’d have to check again, but it would be weird as all hell if they made a completely unique model/texture for the ice formation in just one singular situation.

We don’t get corrupted because we are the player character. Orr has corrupted newly dead in the region. And the dragonbrand has corrupted creatures during and after the initial blast. The thaumanova fallout has done neither.

When I say “you” I mean individuals in general. The Sentinels do not get corrupted by just wandering across the Dragonbrand – those who get corrupted seem to be encased in crystal (per a heart in Iron Marches) or the like; the Pact doesn’t get corrupted by just wandering across Orr – those who get corrupted are exposed to active corrupting magic from minions and artifacts.

The Dragonbrand has not corrupted anything. What corrupts are the minions present – or in the case of the initial creation, Kralkatorrik itself.

All this means for Thaumanova is that individuals did not come into contact with the dragon magic.

The dragon energy produced vegetation that does not resemble mordremoths creations. Or, based on the elemental keys, it produced earth that non-corrupted plants are growing on despite the tainted soil.

The Elder Dragons are very clearly shown with a “darker form of corruption” – take a look at Glint and her GW1 Crystal Guardians/Crystal Spiders or the Zephyrite skills or even the skills from Glint’s Egg or Aurene herself. Rather than dark purple and full of darkness and just being all around sinister, they’re all light blue and bright.

Compare sylvari and the Pale Tree to mordrem and Mordremoth – one is dark and thorned, overall twisted looking and sinister, full of blackened bark; the other is brighter green, white, smooth barked.

Corruption doesn’t take one form.

Besides, when Anet were hinting at the presence of Mordremoth, they used only sylvari things to do so (more namely, Nightmare Court things). Which is not too off from what we see there.

Your definition is still incongruous with the fallout.

It actually isn’t.

Something that is corrupted does not corrupt all things it comes into contact with, despite your apparent beliefs. Meanwhile, corrupting magic has to come into direct contact with something to corrupt it – if there is no direct contact (for example, if the corrupting magic dissipated or ceased), then there will be no corruption.

You seem stuck on the notion that if there’s any form of corruption in an event, then all things tied to the event must become corrupted – this is a false and foolish notion to hold. Just because dragon magic was put into the Thaumanova Reactor and caused the explosion doesn’t mean the full city would become a dragon’s playground. Rather, it means that there would be a bare minimum of some corruption, and we likely see this in the change of environment and nothing more.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

@konig,
You either have contradictions or you raise more questions.

You imply that everything that wasn’t hit by the initial blast requires direct influence in the aftermath.

The Searing shot up and hit the sky. Perhaps clouds in the atmosphere were corrupted. The brand shot down and hit the ground, it didn’t hit any clouds. By your own reasoning the now crystalline clouds that fell in the searing wouldn’t affect the soil any more than sentinels wandering in the brand.

Everything corrupted should follow the same color pallette and nomenclature as standard corrupted. The searing crystals match the color of the brand. And when Sylvari lost control they reverted to the other colors.

  • Why if corruption takes multiple forms would the vegetation take the cleansed Sylvari-esque variety instead of the Mordem?
  • Do you think there was forgotten magic in the reactor?
  • Why would the writers use the word unstable instead of corrupted even though they remembered to write Icebrood for the displaced wolves?

Not everything has to be corrupted, but if your bare minimum is ignoring color, nomenclature and contagiousness, your definition isn’t incongruous it’s useless.

Well at least useless for a rebuttal to the all magic is dragon magic hypothesis. The only requirement is a transformation and magic is an avenue for change.

  • my elementalist corrupted the air into fireballs, but the rest dissipated before it could affect anyone. Etc.

Even if you meant only the fallout qualifies as a new form we can do a scavenger hunt for areas with similar models.

  • All snow is bare minimum Jormag corruption.
  • Bare minimum Mordremoth corruption can be found all over Tyria.

@ narcemus

I do have some questions.

What do you mean by cleansed?

  • i.e if I take equal amounts of Jormag’s and Primordius’ corrupted magic and mix them together what happens?
  • how are properties of the product different from just adding fire and ice magic together.
“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

(edited by Daniel Handler.4816)

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Posted by: Narcemus.1348

Narcemus.1348

@ narcemus

I do have some questions.

What do you mean by cleansed?

  • i.e if I take equal amounts of Jormag’s and Primordius’ corrupted magic and mix them together what happens?
  • how are properties of the product different from just adding fire and ice magic together.

As I said, this is merely a theory, but we have very little understanding of things so far, so many things could need changes in the coming months. I feel like the next two living stories might need to have a lot more exposition on how magic works for Taimi to enact her plan. That said, here is my thought.

You have ley magic. Ley magic has a spectrum to it. This spectrum has to do with the different magics we see, plant, death, fire, ice, water, mind, shadow, etc… Elder dragons consume this magic, but for whatever reason they can only corrupt magic within their domains. So Mordremoth could only corrupt plant and mind magic, Zhaitan death and shadow, etc, etc… All of the other magic flows back into the ley network. Then, through whatever series of events, if an Elder Dragon sleeps, or exudes their magic for whatever reason the Dragon magic, like all magic, eventually enters the ley network. I think of this as similar to waste water that gets dumped eventually working it’s way to a river or stream.

Then we get to the reason that all magic isn’t entirely Dragon magic. I mean we have many cycles of this happening, so what happens that makes it so the magic in the world doesn’t corrupt individuals that use it. In this situation we are told that certain Dragon magic opposes other Dragon magic. My theory is that it isn’t a situation of magic cancelling out magic, but more a situation of the corruption cancelling out the corruption. But it is specific, it has to be the corruption of ice magic that gets negated when mingled with the corruption of fire magic. The magic itself is unharmed, it is merely whatever is done to the magic that causes it to become corrupted that gets removed. I would say that this is why Primordus moved to collect Zhaitan’s magic, this is possibly the only way that he can imbue his minions with that extra boost. I am somewhat confused, then, by why Mordremoth would use Death Magic, like Taimi speculated, but it could be possible that they could channel the magic in such a way through their minions so that it doesn’t interact with the opposing magic. No matter what, though, this is something that ArenaNet needs to explain.

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Posted by: Aaron Ansari.1604

Aaron Ansari.1604

Then we get to the reason that all magic isn’t entirely Dragon magic. I mean we have many cycles of this happening, so what happens that makes it so the magic in the world doesn’t corrupt individuals that use it. In this situation we are told that certain Dragon magic opposes other Dragon magic. My theory is that it isn’t a situation of magic cancelling out magic, but more a situation of the corruption cancelling out the corruption. But it is specific, it has to be the corruption of ice magic that gets negated when mingled with the corruption of fire magic. The magic itself is unharmed, it is merely whatever is done to the magic that causes it to become corrupted that gets removed. I would say that this is why Primordus moved to collect Zhaitan’s magic, this is possibly the only way that he can imbue his minions with that extra boost. I am somewhat confused, then, by why Mordremoth would use Death Magic, like Taimi speculated, but it could be possible that they could channel the magic in such a way through their minions so that it doesn’t interact with the opposing magic. No matter what, though, this is something that ArenaNet needs to explain.

It’s an interesting way of looking at things, but how do you account for magic being drawn directly from the sleeping dragon? We know there’s been at least two instances of it happening, but the old asura gate network didn’t seem to be compromised by Primordus’ influence, and someone certainly would have noticed if the bloodstones had the risen taint… unless one of the purposes of the keystone nobody taps into is to contain that corruption. But why use Zhaitan to strengthen the stone if they had to lock away all the power they got from him?

R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

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Posted by: Narcemus.1348

Narcemus.1348

Good points, and I’m not 100% sure I have an answer for you. Though I could try to make up one on the spot and see if it holds any weight. There is the possibility that the corruption of living beings and environments requires the use of Dragon magic in a certain way. Similar to how different forms of magic can create different effects when used a certain way. The weakness in this idea lies in the question, “if this is the case, why does magic need cleansed?” My only thought is that people have been using death, ice, fire and so on, magic against each other for years and placing curses on each other without ever once creating a minion from them. Similarly we have seen elementals made out of magic that are not tied to the will of a Dragon. This tells me that the natural magic must be cleansed from the corruption, otherwise you would think someone would have corrupted themselves or something else accidentally at some point in time. This idea holds some traction for me because of some situations in game that almost seem contradictory. Such as Kralkatorrik’s blood and Jormag’s tooth being non corruptive in nature, but a blade made from Jormag’s blood does cause corruption. It might have been a special use of Dragon magic that got imbued into the Sanguinary Blade that gave it the power to corrupt. But like any theory I’m sure it has some weaknesses.

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

@Narcemus and Aaaron

If you read Konig’s remarks he answers this.

1. Corruption is caused by direct influence. The magic of the blade wills corruption like a minion.The tooth, Kralk’s blood, the thaumanova reactor, etc, cannot infuse corruption.

2. When Elder Dragons sleep they exude uncorrupted magic. The “raw power” the Asuras drew from Primordius, regardless of which domain it was, isn’t corrupted.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

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Posted by: Narcemus.1348

Narcemus.1348

@Narcemus and Aaaron

If you read Konig’s remarks he answers this.

1. Corruption is caused by direct influence. The magic of the blade wills corruption like a minion.The tooth, Kralk’s blood, the thaumanova reactor, etc, cannot infuse corruption.

2. When Elder Dragons sleep they exude uncorrupted magic. The “raw power” the Asuras drew from Primordius, regardless of which domain it was, isn’t corrupted.

I think that the main reason that Aaron asked the second question was because in my theory that would not be the case. And dragons would exude their corrupted magic. Since my theory changed that idea, he was curious how I would then deal with that scenario, to which I didn’t have the greatest answer.

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

@Narcemus and Aaaron

If you read Konig’s remarks he answers this.

1. Corruption is caused by direct influence. The magic of the blade wills corruption like a minion.The tooth, Kralk’s blood, the thaumanova reactor, etc, cannot infuse corruption.

2. When Elder Dragons sleep they exude uncorrupted magic. The “raw power” the Asuras drew from Primordius, regardless of which domain it was, isn’t corrupted.

I think that the main reason that Aaron asked the second question was because in my theory that would not be the case. And dragons would exude their corrupted magic. Since my theory changed that idea, he was curious how I would then deal with that scenario, to which I didn’t have the greatest answer.

Oh well then I have misread your theory. Apologies.

I thought you meant the twisting of magic inside them had to be intentional. So if they ate and then slept the magic wouldn’t corrupt.

Either way this does bring up an interesting point. How does some of the magic corrupt inside them but not all. I don’t think we have the answer yet with existing lore.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

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Posted by: Mem no Fushia.7604

Mem no Fushia.7604

Vision crystal is made from bloodstone, dragonite, empyreal, obsidian. Asume its canon. Its way to gain ascension. Weh no Su was also way. It can be represented by empyreal star. Next asumption is every single can lead torward ascension. In some degree it should be equal. So for what combining it. To create something that represent all magic. Vision to see all in one picture.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

@konig,
You either have contradictions or you raise more questions.

You imply that everything that wasn’t hit by the initial blast requires direct influence in the aftermath.

The Searing shot up and hit the sky. Perhaps clouds in the atmosphere were corrupted. The brand shot down and hit the ground, it didn’t hit any clouds. By your own reasoning the now crystalline clouds that fell in the searing wouldn’t affect the soil any more than sentinels wandering in the brand.

There are no contradictions and no raised questions.

You are presuming that the Searing had some corruptive elements to it. I am saying it did not – at all.

The reason for this is because Elder Dragons must actively corrupt things – we see this first hand. The Searing was powered by magic taken from a sleeping Elder Dragon – in other words, the magic could not be corruptive. It is not “draconic energy” as the term is defined by NPCs other than Taimi.

Everything corrupted should follow the same color pallette and nomenclature as standard corrupted. The searing crystals match the color of the brand. And when Sylvari lost control they reverted to the other colors.

  • Why if corruption takes multiple forms would the vegetation take the cleansed Sylvari-esque variety instead of the Mordem?
  • Do you think there was forgotten magic in the reactor?
  • Why would the writers use the word unstable instead of corrupted even though they remembered to write Icebrood for the displaced wolves?

Corruption doesn’t have a color pallette. Take the mordrem for example – while there was a lot of brown (Mordrem Guard, mostly) and dark green (HoT/Silverwastes mordrem, mostly), there was a lot of purple as well (Mawdrey, Husks, Vinewrath, some of the large vines), and also included bright lime green (Vine Chambers / Luminescent Wolves), black (the helix in Heart of Thorns, leeching thrashers, Spitfires/Breachers), and even yellows (Thrashers, Mordrem Wolves).

That is a huge color variation.

And to your bulletpoints:

  • We do not know what the source of the “draconic energy” used was. If it were like CoE, then it likely pulls from purified plant draconic energy, rather than non-purified. It should be noted that CoE’s Zone Green and Experimental Green Lab utilize the same sylvari-esque models.
  • No.
  • Not everything icebrood is actually named “Icebrood” or “Corrupted”. Anet writers tend to have inconsistencies (“Svanir” in Bitterfrost Frontier, anyone? Why not call them for what they are: “Icebrood”).

Not everything has to be corrupted, but if your bare minimum is ignoring color, nomenclature and contagiousness, your definition isn’t incongruous it’s useless.

The funny thing is that’s what I’ve been saying the entire time.

And this is why cases that are “a lot of magic” does not result in corruption, unlike your claims were.

Well at least useless for a rebuttal to the all magic is dragon magic hypothesis. The only requirement is a transformation and magic is an avenue for change.

Dragon magic is defined by NPCs (all but Taimi), when defining it, as what corrupts. Corruption is shown and defined as both the physical transformation from material A to material B permanently as well as the mental enslavement.

No normal case of magic changes a material from A to B permanently (only real notable case is the Margonites), and few causes mental enslavement, and non cause both with the sole exception of dragon corruption and the toxic alliance’s magic.

Magic is indeed an avenure of change, but not all change is corruption.

And it should be noted that “from Material A to Material B permanently” is vital to this conversation. Because most cases of magic is not changing something from one material to another (e.g., from flesh to crystal) but from one appearance to another (same material composition the entire time). And even then, it is very rarely permanent.

  • my elementalist corrupted the air into fireballs, but the rest dissipated before it could affect anyone. Etc.

Except that doesn’t happen – while it’s largely left open handed, we see the creation of fire not turning air into fire; one can even argue that the fireball is actually an expansion of the flames around the elementalists’ hands (and same for all other spells of the element) which is formed and maintained by the elemental attunement – and regardless of interpretation, it entirely ignores the permanently aspect which is very important.

Even purifying dragon corruption doesn’t revert the physical change.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

All magic is dragon magic

in Lore

Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Even if you meant only the fallout qualifies as a new form we can do a scavenger hunt for areas with similar models.

  • All snow is bare minimum Jormag corruption.
  • Bare minimum Mordremoth corruption can be found all over Tyria.

You’re making the mistake of the argument that “all of A is B therefore all of B is A” but there’s no such thing to claim the latter half.

For example: all shamans in modern charr society are Flame Legion, but not all Flame Legion are shamans.

Similarly, all of Jormag’s corruption is ice/snow/frost, but not all ice/snow/frost is Jormag’s corruption.

We see elsewhere that Jormag’s corruption spreading can take the form of seemingly normal ice – it’s not all blue and black (just look at most icebrood models, or how about the ice blocks seen in Snow Climb ). There is no reason to presume just because the frost around Thaumanova is not black and blue – which is the appearance of pressurized ice, like the bottom of an iceberg

(On the matter of dragon corruption taking an actual natural appearance, remember the bubble shames in the Dragonbrand? looks familiar, perhaps? – basically, one can theorize that Kralkatorrik’s method of creating the Dragonbrand with his golden fire was effectively superheating and supercooling the land, causing air to trap inside melting surface and cooling off as it ascended to escape – of course, that isn’t to say his corruption is pure science, but rather that there’s an actual science it’s mimicking, same with Jormag’s corruption).

Point being: Just because Jormag’s corruption can look like normal ice, doesn’t mean all normal ice is in fact corruption.

Vision crystal is made from bloodstone, dragonite, empyreal, obsidian. Asume its canon. Its way to gain ascension. Weh no Su was also way. It can be represented by empyreal star. Next asumption is every single can lead torward ascension. In some degree it should be equal. So for what combining it. To create something that represent all magic. Vision to see all in one picture.

About “its way to gain ascension”….

Marjory: If you find all three shards from Ossa’s vision crystal, it says here he’ll put them back together. Hm, these shards are different from the vision-crystal shards so prevalent today.
PC: These are clearly powerful artifacts and not just crafting materials.

The “Vision Crystals” that we craft are different from the three used as part of Ascension.

Not quite sure what your post is referring to though. No one mentioned Ascension in this thread at all?

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

All magic is dragon magic

in Lore

Posted by: Mem no Fushia.7604

Mem no Fushia.7604

The ingredients represent way to gain ascension, cuz you ascend in magic. That means 4 ladders to ascend. Bloodstone, dragonite, empyreal, obsidian. They represent all magic in tyria(that we know at this point, original ancient vision crystal coul reveal something more). If ascension wouldn’t be something like what it is? Four dimensional ascension end fight with doppelganger.

All magic is dragon magic in larger scale there is no dragon magic, its just force(magic) or just magic. They didn’t create it, they are result of it sum at some degree.

Everything is embody of magic.

Forces of tyria magic was splited into bloodstone/dragonite.

Tyria is in cosmos so magic from cosmos come here, is there.

Mists are everywhere cross throught so magic from mists is there.

Using that partition “dragon” magic is in tyria, but not alone. If cut external sources: cosmos/mists, and clean its influence. All what is left is “dragon” magic, no cuz of consume/leak cycle and in a way yes, cuz dragon=force, but dragon=/=all force in universe.

Bloodstone that they cannot just swallow. That there can be partition. If ’’dragon’’ magic was splited into bloodstone and dragon magic. If dragon magic is splited between dragon magic consumed and not corrupted free leaked.

The most accurate for dragon magic term is the magic consumed by dragon at that time.

They leaked magic? and its not corrupted? its not their. Before they animated it wasn’t either their.

All magic is force that push the world.

All magic is dragon magic

in Lore

Posted by: Rognik.2579

Rognik.2579

  • Not everything icebrood is actually named “Icebrood” or “Corrupted”. Anet writers tend to have inconsistencies (“Svanir” in Bitterfrost Frontier, anyone? Why not call them for what they are: “Icebrood”).

I don’t think those Svanir were Icebrood yet, at least not fully. The shaman who was running the operation (and also the heart vendor) was very intelligent, something I don’t think any Icebrood has demonstrated in any capacity. Also, if the armor is good enough to disguise my asura as a Svanir, it’s possible their bodies hadn’t fully undergone the ritual to turn them into Icebrood. That’s my theory until we learn more about Jormag’s minions.

Of course, this entire post is off-topic, as it doesn’t really address the dragon magic theory, but I’m betting the next chapter will cover more of this as Taimi reveals what she’s learned about Primordus’s and Jormag’s energies.

All magic is dragon magic

in Lore

Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

@ konig
I understand the situation as it is.

  • you define dragon corruption as a permanent transformation of matter via the active use of dragon energy.
  • and you stress that just because something could be inactive corruption does not mean it is.

I invite you to apply your logic to Anets creative license. While a teapot around Jupiter, and all snow being Jormag’s is of unknown probability, this discussion is not.

Writers are omnipotent. You can treat lore inconsistencies as crafty storytelling with misunderstood connections, or you can label them retcons. But they are not mistakes until shown otherwise. As the reader of an ongoing story you do not have the literary authority to break the fourth wall. You can say that the characters were misled.

The goal of this thread was not to definitively prove Taimi/Scarlet correct.The purpose was to assume they were right, and treat this like a puzzle of connecting discordant facts. Yes we could just wait for the writers. But the discussion is interesting…to some.

We are each entitled to plausible literary interpretations until proven others.

Here is my current theory, or what I have of it so far

1 Taimi:

  • “Magic as we know it is like white light, composed of all the different types of dragon magic”
  • ley/mortal magic is created by combining dragon domains
  • dragons survive by performing something like nuclear fission with magic. They feed on the energy released when their domain is separated.

2 Scarlet:

  • chaos magic is a misnomer for homogenous dragon magic undergoing fusion into ley
  • the released energy induces the ether around the area into the illusory equivalent of dragon corruption
  • scarlet added so much the it produced a thermonucleur-esque explosion.
  • when the reactor blew up the fallout contained the corruptive products of the fission reaction.
  • the products had enough energy to corrupt the land but too much to not kill any possible minions

3 Permanence:

  • according to Snaff, magic and ether are the foundations of reality, including the composition of form
  • assuming the Mesmer interaction with ether is the archetype, players can sustain changes with mental concentration and magic. When either lapses reality reverts, and the only thing that remains (except kinda in time magic) are the consequences of the alteration.
  • permanence is if the altered reality becomes the active reality after magic and mind are no longer being applied.

4 trapped forms

  • The Rite of the Great Dwarf is temporary for Revenants, and seemingly permanent for Dwarves
  • if we assume both are the same spell, then the difference between temporary and permanent is again mind and magic.
  • perhaps the same can be said for corruption.

5 Corruption

  • with the possible exception of the sanguinary blade, all the direct influencers are Elder Dragons or a member of their hive mind.
  • in our reality the concentration of radiation is important
  • in tyria it is the mental concentration of magic
  • though the products of fission are still volatile they are not inherently corruptive
  • what Kudu extracted would not have worked if he took it from corrupted land, or a Sylvari.
  • the Margonites don’t convert people, Abaddon does.
  • the hive mind is required for spreading corruption, but not for being corrupted.

Tldr;

We saw the abilities of entities vastly stronger than ourselves and we assumed that they are other rather than we are weak.

The Gods, Dragons, and Dwarves can permanently transform the flesh in ways that the Dervish, Mesmers, and Revenants cannot.

All magic is dragon magic. All magic can be actively used to corrupt matter.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

(edited by Daniel Handler.4816)

All magic is dragon magic

in Lore

Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

@ konig
I understand the situation as it is.

  • you define dragon corruption as a permanent transformation of matter via the active use of dragon energy.
  • and you stress that just because something could be inactive corruption does not mean it is.

The first point is correct.

The second point is not. I am saying that there is no such thing as inactive corruption. We have never once seen any instance of inactive corruption.

If inactive corruption existed, then the magic exuded from Elder Dragons as they slept would corrupt – but we know for a fact that this is not true.

Writers are omnipotent. You can treat lore inconsistencies as crafty storytelling with misunderstood connections, or you can label them retcons. But they are not mistakes until shown otherwise. As the reader of an ongoing story you do not have the literary authority to break the fourth wall. You can say that the characters were misled.

As a writer, I can tell you that this line of argument is complete bullkitten.

Writers forget things as they make stories – the longer the story, the more elements they forget. You need to have excellent memory and a good system of notes to keep track of things for longer stories. And even then, as time goes on and you go through the plot you get more and better ideas which may not always work with old things that you’ve forgotten.

There are mistakes, never think otherwise. We’ve seen plenty of them in Season 2 alone, and some even got fixed (such as the mention of Malomedies being worried about Riannoc’s fate during The Newly Awakened, when he was well known to be dead when Malomedies had been returned by the asura who tortured him, which happened before said story instance’s flashback).

To believe that the writers never make mistakes is a full out folly of epic proportions.

The goal of this thread was not to definitively prove Taimi/Scarlet correct.The purpose was to assume they were right, and treat this like a puzzle of connecting discordant facts. Yes we could just wait for the writers. But the discussion is interesting…to some.

Rule 1 of life: Never assume when you don’t have to.

You shouldn’t just assume Taimi is correct (and it should be noted that Taimi even potentially contradicts Scarlet; at best, the two are inconsequential to each other).

First, you must determine if Taimi was correct in the first place. Else you’re putting the wagon before the horse.

But let’s say she is right, and everyone else – some of them downright geniuses who studied the field longer than Taimi could – is wrong:

2 Scarlet:

  • chaos magic is a misnomer for homogenous dragon magic undergoing fusion into ley
  • the released energy induces the ether around the area into the illusory equivalent of dragon corruption
  • scarlet added so much the it produced a thermonucleur-esque explosion.
  • when the reactor blew up the fallout contained the corruptive products of the fission reaction.
  • the products had enough energy to corrupt the land but too much to not kill any possible minions
  • This isn’t what she said at all. She was saying that what the Inquest called chaos magic was actually dragon magic. This does not mean that all chaos magic is actually dragon magic; nor does it mean that all dragon magic would be mistaken for chaos magic. Nor does it mean that “chaos magic” is “dragon magic undergoing fusion into ley” either.
  • There’s nothing illusory of what’s going on at Thaumanova, so I’m not really sure what you’re saying here.
  • According to Scarlet’s final line, it was the research conducted atop of ley lines that caused the explosion. In other words, the explosion was a reaction of dragon energy, whatever the Inquest had before Scarlet showed up, and a nexus of ley lines being combined. Without all three together, you get a different situation (probably CoE situation).
  • -skipping to the last point- If it can corrupt the land it can corrupt individuals; we see throughout the game that individuals tend to get corrupted before the land does. So the reason we see no dragon minions (beyond those teleported in) while we see environmental changes is not due to “quantities of dragon corruption”.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

All magic is dragon magic

in Lore

Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

3 Permanence:

  • according to Snaff, magic and ether are the foundations of reality, including the composition of form
  • assuming the Mesmer interaction with ether is the archetype, players can sustain changes with mental concentration and magic. When either lapses reality reverts, and the only thing that remains (except kinda in time magic) are the consequences of the alteration.
  • permanence is if the altered reality becomes the active reality after magic and mind are no longer being applied.

I think you’re taking the notes from Snaff greatly out of proportion and context.

Let’s look at what’s actually said:

“A Treatise on the Mental Puppeteering of Golems” by Snaff. Some scholars theorize that magic flows through all things, that we swim in magic as fish swim in water, or as we ourselves live in air. This magic is said to ebb and flow via currents called ley lines. Magic infuses everything in the world. The building blocks of reality are held together by magic. With the right connectors, manipulating magical elements with the mind becomes possible. The mind is a powerful and fragile quantity in the world equation and the Eternal Alchemy. It can move mountains, or it can be shattered like glass. My research has found a thread between magic and the mind. The two are linked. Where there is one, there must also be other. The igniter is belief.

Now, first I want to stress that Snaff is talking in the context of controlling golems via mental puppeteering.

Secondly, and more important to this topic, is that there is absolutely nothing that talks about ether being the foundation of reality. So your entire line of argument stems from nothing.

4 trapped forms

  • The Rite of the Great Dwarf is temporary for Revenants, and seemingly permanent for Dwarves
  • if we assume both are the same spell, then the difference between temporary and permanent is again mind and magic.
  • perhaps the same can be said for corruption.

It’s not the same spell, just as Shiro legend users never use the actual Jade Wind spell. The entire theme of the Revenant is to utilize Mists energy to mimic the original hero / villain, but doesn’t produce the same exact effect. It’s aesthetically mimicking, but not fundamentally mimicking, in other words.

5 Corruption

  • with the possible exception of the sanguinary blade, all the direct influencers are Elder Dragons or a member of their hive mind.
  • in our reality the concentration of radiation is important
  • in tyria it is the mental concentration of magic
  • though the products of fission are still volatile they are not inherently corruptive
  • what Kudu extracted would not have worked if he took it from corrupted land, or a Sylvari.
  • the Margonites don’t convert people, Abaddon does.
  • the hive mind is required for spreading corruption, but not for being corrupted.

Sanguinary Blade is not the only object that causes corruption. At the end of Ossuary of the Unquiet Dead we see urns that are spreading corruption into corpses; similarly, there’s the amulets that Necromancer Rissa created from the Dragon Crystal (crystallized corruption) which killed then corrupted the wearer, and there was the Orrian sword that Kellach had found which corrupted him as he still lived.

This shows that the Elder Dragons can create corruption that continues to spread corruption, but the things they corrupt do not necessarily corrupt other things.

I do not see where you get “mental concentration of magic” – even the bit from Snaff doesn’t really imply such.

Your line about fission and Kudu have no solid bearing. They seems to draw from Thaumanova, but you presume that Thaumanova is just a case of “add even more dragon magic!” Which isn’t true in the first place, but given the fact that Kudu had utilized Mordremoth’s dragon energy and had no source except sylvari, he very clearly did extract such from sylvari and it worked.

And nothing says the hive mind is required for spreading corruption. Sylvari are capable of “spreading corruption” in that they are utilizing plant magic, but there is no hive mind between them (and no, the Dream is not a hive mind – Killeen states such in Ghosts of Ascalon). Furthermore, we see Glint creating crystalline landscapes and “minions” in GW1, but she had been given free will so not part of the hive mind either…

All magic is dragon magic. All magic can be actively used to corrupt matter.

So you say, but you’ve yet to show any actual support for this.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

All magic is dragon magic

in Lore

Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

@Konig

Now, I call bullkitten on your calling bullkitten.

Writers can make mistakes, but so can readers. This is not a chronological error, this a eureka moment you disregarded because it seems to defy previous lore. You need proof, otherwise your dismissal is just as much an assumption as anything in this thread.

Science would never advance if new discoveries were rejected because they conflicted with older ones. It may be unlikely that Taimi is correct, but saying Snaff was smart is not evidence.

There is no default argument

  • Taimi is right and we misinterpreted the past,
  • Taimi is wrong,
  • Taimi is partially right,
  • Taimi is right and the past is retconned,
  • Taimi is wrong and the past is wrong,
  • insert other permutation

We can test each hypothesis using recorded events, but we can’t prove anything yet.

The purpose for this thread was to craft a theory that matched the past and present lore, because it would be exciting if this was something hidden in plain sight. Moreover its much more satisfying than assuming the writers goofed.

Either way back the theory


Perhaps poor choice of words on my part. Inactive corruption is that which is not actively corrupting/consuming magic. It cannot be produced passively by a sleeping dragon. The thaumanova fallout, and the Sylvari are inactive corruption. Without external knowledge, you would not be able to tell they were corrupted.

The mists are the protoreality. We don’t know if it is purely ether, but most of the area between realities, and the creatures that inhabit that, are etheric. We also know from the research journal that when mesmers alter reality temporarily they are inducing ether.

What I drew from Snaff was magic as a connector, which therefore meant magic and ether made reality.

From what I have seen in game the Sylvari cannot corrupt. Incidents like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFQFiJlgPOw are from the Pale Tree’s magic. They grow using seeds, but nothing is permanent .

It unusual that only the divine and dragons can permanently create/alter the forms of others. Lich, Exalted, Dwarves, etc have all been able to change themselves, but no one has turned a person into ice.

Given that the difficulty of a spell is the power load/mental exertion, perhaps we aren’t strong or smart enough to corrupt.

The thaumanova reactor, and Kudu corrupted purely by applying concentrated dragon energy. The average mortal would not be able to concentrate it that high by mind alone.

The bloodstone explosion produce unstable areas that materialized into dragon domain divisions. I presumed it was the denial stone, and therefore it was chaos magic. Otherwise its confusing why the magic would become things from several schools.

The idea for fission comes from the fact that the dragons survive despite exuding all their food. My thinking is they split magic down and eat the released energy. The domain they split can be easily concentrated physically and amplified mentally to change reality. The mental enslavement part comes from minions needing the intellect of the hive mind to corrupt.

If I missed something in your response I apologize. I’ll go over this reply when I have time.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

All magic is dragon magic

in Lore

Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Writers can make mistakes, but so can readers. This is not a chronological error, this a eureka moment you disregarded because it seems to defy previous lore. You need proof, otherwise your dismissal is just as much an assumption as anything in this thread.

First, never claimed readers can’t make mistakes, but that writers can and that you shouldn’t accept every line as correct or a change of things just because it was written. Second, and this carries from the first, just because it’s new lore doesn’t mean it is correct. ArenaNet LOVES to play with subjective truths on top of their objective truths, which means that they’ll seed in lies or false conclusions in with the actual situations – this is not only a narrative device to create a more believable world, but gives them leeway for retcons fitting in the world itself (such as how they covered Glint’s and the Bloodstone’s origin retcons).

Daniel Handler.4816

It may be unlikely that Taimi is correct, but saying Snaff was smart is not evidence.

If it were Snaff alone, I’d say it’s subject to debate, even though Snaff was the leading expert in the field being overshadowed by a teenager who, while a genius in her own right, has only began dabbling in the field. But when you add on years of study from multiple others, it becomes far more dubious. I am not saying “Snaff was smart” is evidence, I’m saying “half a dozen people who spent years studying the topic counter an inexperienced newbie” is evidence for disbelief. Ultimately, we’ll no doubt find out whether Taimi is truthful or not by the end of the Season.
—————————————-
Gonna bullet point the rest because quoting gets too long:

  • Sylvari would actually be active corruption. Just as destroyers in Eye of the North were active corruption, despite Primordus sleeping. The Elder Dragon does not need be awake if champions are awake to utilize the magic and twist things.
  • Correction: The Mists are protomatter, and that’s different from aether, which is the building blocks for magic itself.
    It should be noted that there might be a difference between ether and aether – while both are used, they’re not used interchangably. I just searched, and there’s no (obvious) connection between mesmers and aether – just ether. And it was aether – not ether – that was said to be the building blocks of magic, IIRC.
  • That’s not what he said. He said where there’s magic there’s mind and vice versa. In other words, he is saying that “magic is life and life is magic” – which is what Oola said in her hero challenge quiz and similar to what Ogden said in Hidden Arcana (though Ogden goes a step further to say that the world itself will “crumble” without magic, but it’s hard to say how much of what Ogden was saying was metaphorical).
    What this is to say is that landscapes – reality – can exist without magic, but living beings cannot as living beings themselves are partially magic. I interpret this as referring to souls, which are often used as a magical energy source.
  • And what exactly is the Pale Tree’s magic except for “benign corruption”? Also, the sylvari do not always use seeds – their gardeners alter natural plants as well as seeds, and their menders alter sylvari bodies themselves through their “plant magic” as they have come to call it.
  • We do not know the origins of the Rite of the Great Dwarf, but given it is tied to a potential deity (there have been dev comments to imply that the Great Dwarf was once a singular being and that the “collective consciousness” is a “second Great Dwarf” of sorts) it could be divine; similarly, Exalted come from Forgotten magic whom are very, very commonly associated with the divine of the Six Gods.
    I wouldn’t really say that undeath is an alteration of form; while we have a limited number in-game models the novels (specifically Ghosts of Ascalon with Killeen’s minions) make natural necromancy to be utilizing bodies as they are – fresh or skeletal or otherwise (while risen, on the other hand, became decayed instantly).
  • Nothing really says there’s any tie to mental exertion, and given that mortals – humans at that – have become liches, your lines seem contradictory.
  • While we’re unsure, there has been a long standing presence for the Maguuma Bloodstone to be the one tied to Preservation magic.
    The rifts are not really materializing dragon domains, but rather regions in the world. The rifts have opened across Tyria – not so different from Thaumanova – and the environments are also being pulled through the rifts.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

All magic is dragon magic

in Lore

Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

@Konig

Your Rule 1 is actually don’t pursue what doesn’t make sense. It is a reworking of Occam’s Razor that is useful but not infallible. Moreover it is not as unlikely as you assume.

  • Taimi made this discovery after the death of Mordremoth when hybrid minions were discovered.
  • She had access to Rata Novus.
  • She may not have spent as much time as her predecessors but she had access to more data and research then they did.

Inactive

  • Inactive has nothing to do with whether the dragon is awake. It is whether the thing is unlikely or unable to directly influence a material into a permanent transformation
  • the Pale Tree actively corrupted Orr, producing plants from non-plant sources
  • Sylvari growing or shaping plants from plants is not a material transformation
  • Kralkatorrik actively corrupted the Dragonbrand, which is inactive corruption, and the Branded, which are active corruption.

Ether

  • “floating as islands in the ether” -mists on gw2 wiki (but the word aether/ether is not found in the Jeff Grubb interview, so this may be inaccurate)
  • “they are made from the Mists themselves, bits of etheric matter that have gained malignant sentience and power.” -nightfall manuscripts

Magic-

  • “Magic infuses everything in the world. The building blocks of reality are held together by magic. With the right connectors, manipulating magical elements with the mind becomes possible.”- Snaff
  • whether the building blocks of reality are aether/ether/mist doesn’t matter, the mind is used to manipulate magic and thus reality.

Mental exertion

  • “By focusing the ether around my body, I can create a barrier. It is almost as though the air itself hardens, stopping arrows and deflecting blades. I need more time to perfect the spell, though. It requires an immense amount of concentration to maintain, and lapses in focus allow attacks to slip through. A bigger drawback is the Energy loss from exertion.”- Research Journal
  • mental concentration made not be necessary for all spells but it is for some. Presumably a hive mind would help those with less mental ability cast such a spell.

Temporary vs permanent

  • if the ritual is divine this just adds to my observation
  • regardless of whether we count undeath, a Lich does it to themselves.
  • there are no instances of non-dragon/non-divine sources permanently transforming the composition of another object/entity
  • champions are still considered dragon soures
  • Mesmers are able to steal and cast spells from schools they have no mastery in. Perhaps Kudu was able to corrupt in this matter.
  • it’s possible all magic can be used to corrupt but we are too weak.

Maguuma bloodstone

Edit:

I realise I’m actually arguing two theories.

  • magic is composed of dragon energy like matter:atoms
  • all magic is inactive corruption, active corruption comes from those of sufficient magical strength like the divine/dragons or their mental extensions.

The evidence for the former is very circumstantial. I will try to focus more on the later.

This thread has given me a lot of interesting ideas. Thanks to everyone who participated. I’ll make a new post for some of the idea I gathered from this thread that ate unrelated to all magic is dragon magic.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

(edited by Daniel Handler.4816)