Guild Wars 2

http://www.relicsoforr.com/?p=3152

@MalchiorDeven
@AngelMcCoy Hope you find the time to read what @washednblood had to say about the Dead End Bar, Angel wp.me/p2sSxD-Ov

washednblood @MalchiorDevenAngelMcCoy oh man, now you have me scared, lol

@AngelMcCoy

@washednblood @MalchiorDeven Thx for the pointer to the article, Clint, and you don’t have to be afraid, Matthew. I found it interesting. The difficulty with these scenes is that you have to choose a moment in time to shine your spotlight on. The choice of which moment to show is of critical importance to good storytelling, and it’s rarely clear which is the correct choice. In this case, we chose to have a moment of celebration. Like the celebration at the end of a major war. Although so many died and the future still looks black, sentient beings usually want a moment when they can forget those troubles and celebrate something good. We chose that moment. I guarantee that the b-iconics don’t feel cavalier about the death and destruction, nor about the scary future. I take your comments to heart though, and thank you for being so thoughtfully involved in the story. Is it considered bad etiquette to write that many tweets in a row? LOL.

@washednblood
@AngelMcCoy @MalchiorDeven Maybe it was the tone of the VO that just drew me out of the moment, and the characters just seems too happy.

@AngelMcCoy
@washednblood @MalchiorDeven I hear ya. We’ve been actively discussing going darker, so I suspect you’ll be happy for that. We have to be careful because of our Teen ESRB rating, but I’m hearing the fans who say they want it darker.

@washednblood
@AngelMcCoy @MalchiorDeven I think there is a way of showing the depth of emotion in those kinds of scenes without messing up the rating.

@AngelMcCoy
@washednblood @MalchiorDeven There definitely is. And I will find it. But, I also have other people who want us to end on a “happy note.” It’s a tightrope walk!

@washednblood
@AngelMcCoy @MalchiorDeven IMO a new dragon awakening wasn’t the right moment. If it had just been Scarlet’s death, it would make more sense

@AngelMcCoy
@washednblood @MalchiorDeven No one in-game knows that a dragon has awakened yet. Only you know out of game. They heard the cry of the dragon, but Tyrians didn’t see the cinematic. Only players. It gets complicated.

@washednblood
@AngelMcCoy @MalchiorDeven Really? I thought I remember Taimi mentioning something. I know our character mentions it to kasmeer

@AngelMcCoy
@washednblood @MalchiorDeven They mention the dragon’s roar and about Scarlet trying to arouse a dragon (not awaken one).

@washednblood
@AngelMcCoy @MalchiorDeven ok, well, I can “forgive” them a little then if the first they hear is our char mention it

Love the fact they are looking for a darker story.

( If you want a good lecture and give them credit, go to the website. The copy/paste made it awful to read. )

Enjoy

Clearly the people that actually work on those kind of things disagree though:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_Leigh_McCoy#Publications

The following is a bit ramble-y but I somehow couldn’t coherently edit it. Anyway…
Telling a story in a video game is a different beast altogether.

Sometimes the game mechanics won’t allow you to do certain things, sometimes you don’t have the time to implement the art assets or do the voice work. For example we know that there’s been technical issues preventing player characters from talking. There are very real limits as to how long you can expect a player to listen to audio, or look at cinematics.
Take the Personal Story, image if it was 1 hour long, filled with voice work and cinematic, all sorts of interesting scripted events and what not. Within that hour you could probably convey a decent enough story, but can you expect the user to want to experience the story for that full hour? Some players don’t care about the story, other player want to quickly finish the Personal Story mission so they can go back to grinding mats. Thus you need to limit the amount of time you take players away from other aspects of the game.

For example. Could we have had more character development on Scarlets part? Sure. But ask yourself how would that have been implemented? Cutscenes? Well you know video games are an interactive medium, cutscenes by there nature are none interactive, meaning that we already have a conflict. In a movie it’s perfectly fine for 2 characters to stand and talk to each other for 15 minutes, depending on the genre most of the movie can just be people talking. However again, ask yourself how this would translate? Do you want to stand around listening to people talk and talk and talk? No, this is a game, you play games. In a book you can easily spend an entire page or two describing something, however that same effort becomes significantly more difficult because unlike words video game assets are more difficult to produce and manipulate.

I see a lot of complaining about things that were done wrong but not enough realisation, or thought as to how it could be practically done differently. And the key here is practically.

CureForLiving.5360:

For example. Could we have had more character development on Scarlets part? Sure. But ask yourself how would that have been implemented? Cutscenes? Well you know video games are an interactive medium, cutscenes by there nature are none interactive, meaning that we already have a conflict. In a movie it’s perfectly fine for 2 characters to stand and talk to each other for 15 minutes, depending on the genre most of the movie can just be people talking. However again, ask yourself how this would translate? Do you want to stand around listening to people talk and talk and talk? No, this is a game, you play games. In a book you can easily spend an entire page or two describing something, however that same effort becomes significantly more difficult because unlike words video game assets are more difficult to produce and manipulate.

I see a lot of complaining about things that were done wrong but not enough realisation, or thought as to how it could be practically done differently. And the key here is practically.

It really isn’t hard to portray such story without cutscenes. They’ve done it before in guild wars 1. The bonus mission pack allowed you to take control of iconic heroes of guild wars 1 during a pinnacle lore moment.

They could have given us a brief view of scarlet’s rise to power each patch while keeping her indentity secret by having the player act out her forming each alliance. Not only would it have gotten the player invested in Scarlet but it would have given them a perfect venue to hint and tease at further content. Which would have kept players looking forward.

This is how you tell a story within a game, they should know this… THEY’VE DONE IT BEFORE.

The problem with season one is it lacks imagination. It’s rushed and shallow and destroys almost everything it worked up to right at the end. To make way for a new entirely unknown antagonist to take its place.

Alice.8694:

It really isn’t hard to portray such story without cutscenes. They’ve done it before in guild wars 1. The bonus mission pack allowed you to take control of iconic heroes of guild wars 1 during a pinnacle lore moment.

They could have given us a brief view of scarlet’s rise to power each patch while keeping her indentity secret by having the player act out her forming each alliance. Not only would it have gotten the player invested in Scarlet but it would have given them a perfect venue to hint and tease at further content. Which would have kept players looking forward.

This is how you tell a story within a game, they should know this… THEY’VE DONE IT BEFORE.

The problem with season one is it lacks imagination. It’s rushed and shallow and destroys almost everything it worked up to right at the end. To make way for a new entirely unknown antagonist to take its place.

It’s a very interesting idea. Only issue I could think of would be that players might not want to play Scarlet i.e. players are attached to their character’s look and feel and abilities. But there could have been other ways around it, if you put some imagination to work.

I’m really happy with any suggestion that they make the tone darker.

The game’s rating is one consideration, but a great number of players are older, and an entirely lighthearted story doesn’t feel so rewarding. Heck, I bet even the younger players would agree. Look at Courage the Cowardly Dog, Invader Zim, or any number of other dark kids shows that are popular. Kids can deal with dark sometimes.

There are elements that point in the right direction— the mourning citizens of Lion’s Arch are a good start.

Neilos Tyrhanos.5427:

I’m really happy with any suggestion that they make the tone darker.

The game’s rating is one consideration, but a great number of players are older, and an entirely lighthearted story doesn’t feel so rewarding. Heck, I bet even the younger players would agree. Look at Courage the Cowardly Dog, Invader Zim, or any number of other dark kids shows that are popular. Kids can deal with dark sometimes.

There are elements that point in the right direction— the mourning citizens of Lion’s Arch are a good start.

The age of the players is completely irrelevant though. A rating is a rating, no matter if older people play it.

lordkrall.7241:

The age of the players is completely irrelevant though. A rating is a rating, no matter if older people play it.

And as I said, there are other highly popular examples of things aimed at children, with a darker tone.

Its why I hope for a day without all this skewed morality crap with ratings and kitten.

Or we all go indy developer and say hell to the ratings system!

Bigtony.5089:

@AngelMcCoy
@washednblood @MalchiorDeven They mention the dragon’s roar and about Scarlet trying to arouse a dragon (not awaken one).

Kasmeer: Don’t hold anything back. We’re all ears. You know Scarlet better than any of us. After all, you killed her. So, what’s Taimi talking about?

You: I think all of Tyria heard that dragon’s cry.

Kasmeer: Is that what you think it was? A dragon? Oh, it would make so much sense to think that Scarlet was messing with the dragons.

You: I believe that was her plan all along. Her drill caused one of them to stir.

Kasmeer: Yes, we heard it too. Which one do you think it was? Primordus? Kralkatorrik? Jormag? Do you think one is sleeping beneath Lion’s Arch?

You: No. I think Scarlet disturbed the ley lines, knowing they feed the dragons.

Kasmeer: I don’t understand.

You: The dragons consume magic. The ley lines are currents in an ocean of magic.

Kasmeer: And Scarlet threw a giant rock in that pool, sending ripples out to the dragon. It makes sense. You’re brilliant.

Source.

Sounds an awful like we knew it was a dragon waking up…

Angel McCoy has only proven to be a major disappointment to Guild Wars lore fans. Without a doubt, the lighthearted stuff is contributor.

Going for a darker tone like some of the stories were set up in the original Guild Wars should help, but the most important thing is that she makes it a priority to stay true to previously established lore.

deepwinter.9015:

Bigtony.5089:

@AngelMcCoy
@washednblood @MalchiorDeven They mention the dragon’s roar and about Scarlet trying to arouse a dragon (not awaken one).

Kasmeer: Don’t hold anything back. We’re all ears. You know Scarlet better than any of us. After all, you killed her. So, what’s Taimi talking about?

You: I think all of Tyria heard that dragon’s cry.

Kasmeer: Is that what you think it was? A dragon? Oh, it would make so much sense to think that Scarlet was messing with the dragons.

You: I believe that was her plan all along. Her drill caused one of them to stir.

Kasmeer: Yes, we heard it too. Which one do you think it was? Primordus? Kralkatorrik? Jormag? Do you think one is sleeping beneath Lion’s Arch?

You: No. I think Scarlet disturbed the ley lines, knowing they feed the dragons.

Kasmeer: I don’t understand.

You: The dragons consume magic. The ley lines are currents in an ocean of magic.

Kasmeer: And Scarlet threw a giant rock in that pool, sending ripples out to the dragon. It makes sense. You’re brilliant.

Source.

Sounds an awful like we knew it was a dragon waking up…

I see nothing in that dialogue that shows the characters know a dragon woke up. They just know the roar was of a dragon, speculate Scarlet was aiming to feed dragons, and denies one sleeping beneath Lion’s Arch.

Jeff.4680:

Angel McCoy has only proven to be a major disappointment to Guild Wars lore fans. Without a doubt, the lighthearted stuff is contributor.

Going for a darker tone like some of the stories were set up in the original Guild Wars should help, but the most important thing is that she makes it a priority to stay true to previously established lore.

Angel McCoy doesn’t write the Living Story all by her self, you know. Why is she alone getting the heat? If I recall correctly, there are 4 writers (Angel, Scott, and two others) who have been writing the LW stuff, all supervised under Bobby Stein (Angel and Scott are the lead writers for the LW though).

Besides, wanna know a fun fact? Same people who’re writing the Living World…. wrote War in Kryta. And that was kitten dark and true to previously established lore. So we know that they can write decent/good plots. Honestly, I think the well reception that WiK got is what led to this mess – they tested the LW concept in GW1, and brought it forth in GW2; but if so, they messed up on two things: 1) GW1 was fully instanced, GW2 is not (MASSIVE importance in this set up), and 2) the temporary nature in GW2 didn’t exist with Beyond in GW1.