Guild Wars 2

The masters of adaptation and technology, the former rulers of tyria.
How are they one of the weakest factions technological and number wise, what has happened to them.

They got kicked in the face repeatedly and have been on the defensive for the last few hundred years.

I think humans are doing better than alot of people realise. Its just they have been very underplayed currently ingame probably out of fear that they might steal too much spotlight.

Humans arent doing too bad tech and numbers wise though. They dont have the military technology of the charr or magitech of the asura but their agricultural and construction skills and tech seem to be above what we see from the charr lands. Humans also have a very strong magical legacy though again its underplayed.

Human adaptation usually takes the form of their methods of dealing with problems. Charr deal with problems in a very direct way. Fix it, Kill it, Build it. Humans will work around problems, try and find ways to turn a problem into an asset or look for alternative solutions. Its the reason places like Ebonhawke lasted as long as it has.

Also they are still going strong in Cantha, probably stronger than ever (in terms of militaristic power).

Let’s not forget how their Gods pretty much packed their bags and left. Gods which I might add have personally aided in their conquests and stuff, from what I understand.

Oglaf.1074:

Let’s not forget how their Gods pretty much packed their bags and left. Gods which I might add have personally aided in their conquests and stuff, from what I understand.

The gods quite possibly had the humans backs on there first expansion into Tyria. But that was a long time prior to the point humanity started to wane. Certainly the charr at the time put the human’s gods down to the reason the humans were winning which is why they started looking for their own gods and found the titans.

However the humans did pretty well on their own without the aid of the gods. The great northern wall was built to defend Ascalon yet the humans continued to push the charr back to the point where Ascalon’s capitol was to the north of the wall.

In truth, the reason the humans did so well against the charr was probably because infighting. Their Khan Ur had just died and they were fighting over who should be in charge. Ironicly it was infighting that lead to the human nations being weak during the charr invasion 250 years ago.

Infact, probably one of the greatest contributors to the decline in human power has been due to the actions of one of their former gods, Abaddon. Abaddon set up the charr invasion, the cataclysm of Orr and provided the charr with the magic that allowed them to perform the Searing, probably the most deciding factor in the charr’s victory over Ascalon.

Humanity’s fall I dont think has been because they depended on their gods. Quite the contrary. Its the fact that humanity has been taking alot of hits over the past 300 years with little respite. They also still have a lot of old baggage holding them down.

Humans are the GW2 version of elves. They once had a shining kingdom with a long and storied history, but are getting displaced by the younger, more energetic, races. They still have one main city left, which reflects the glory of their past but also shows that they haven’t really advanced at all in hundreds of years.

Meanwhile, the charr are similar to the typical ‘human’ role in fantasy – using steel and iron, advancing through technology, expanding their territory rapidly, and becoming the new driving force in the world.

Son of Elias.5420:

Humans are the GW2 version of elves. They once had a shining kingdom with a long and storied history, but are getting displaced by the younger, more energetic, races. They still have one main city left, which reflects the glory of their past but also shows that they haven’t really advanced at all in hundreds of years.

Meanwhile, the charr are similar to the typical ‘human’ role in fantasy – using steel and iron, advancing through technology, expanding their territory rapidly, and becoming the new driving force in the world.

What do you mean they havent advanced that much? Compare old Lion’s Arch to Divinity’s Reach. Hell just look how much their agriculture and use of irrigation systems has improved.

The biggest difference is the charr have industrialised on a far bigger level. That would be part due to their political and social structure but also due to the racial drive for dominance. However humans have developed along less warlike paths.

For example, I would very much expect that human’s new a lot more about astrology than the charr. Also, although their mechanical engineering wouldn’t be at the same level as the charr’s their civil and structural engineering is probably superior.

Most charr technologies focus on military applications. Humans have developed along less agressive lines.

Of course theres a strong arguement that they are still far behind the stage they were at when Orr was a human kingdom. Of course, at that time humanity in Tyria seemed to favor magical skill over mechanical science. Nolan Academy after all was an academy for mages.

Humans are a lot more technologically advanced than you think. Walk around Divinity’s Reach and notice the street lights, waterworks, etc.. and you find humans in GW2 are quite capable of semi-modern technology. Divinity’s Reach itself looks as if it takes inspiration directly from early 1900 Great Britain.

Son of Elias.5420:

Meanwhile, the charr are similar to the typical ‘human’ role in fantasy – using steel and iron, advancing through technology, expanding their territory rapidly, and becoming the new driving force in the world.

I would compare the Charr more to typical fantasy dwarves. They don’t trust magic, they have a feud with the elves (humans in this case), they have a short temper and are very advanced in terms of technology (thoug sometimes this trope goes to the gnomes).

The Norn are more your standart fantasy humans. They don’t know too much about the world, but they aren’t afraid to go on adventures. They are pretty much the “young” newcomer to the world and quickly advancing. Thinking about it, Sylvari also have traces of the classical fantasy humans.

Excuse me? Norns are renowned adventurers and explorers.

Oglaf.1074:

Excuse me? Norns are renowned adventurers and explorers.

Aye, but only somewhat recently. Look back to EotN, and Norn were almost unheard of outside of the northern Shiverpeaks. So Buddha would be correct that they, in general, would know less of the world as compared to the ‘elves’ (humans) and ‘dwarves’ (charr), who both have very expansive territories and long histories of spreading across Tyria.

The way he worded it, he compared them to the ditsy naiveté of the Sylvari, which is blatantly wrong.

The only reason humans are on the back foot is because the writers pigeonholed them to make room for the other races.

I mean lets just look at Elona.

During the events of Nightfall the infamous would-be conqueror Palawa Joko is released, Nightfall is eventually stopped and peace is restored.

Then the Sunspears do nothing about him for sixty years!!! They sit back and let Joko consolidate his forces, conceive and execute his plans then are taken by surprise when he attempts to invade them….again.

With people like Dunkoro and Morgahn in leadership positions, that should have never been allowed to happen. Heck even Zhed saw it coming a mile away and even warned us….

So yeah, there’s no logical explanation that can excuse such a blunder from an organisation except for plot convenience.

Well, except that we haven’t even been to Elona yet in GW2 and that has nothing to do with Ascalon falling to the charr or Orr sinking into the sea; both of which happened way back in GW1. Heck, Ascalon fell in literally the first five minutes of the game depending on how long you wandered around Pre-Searing.

So it’s not like the writers are going out of their way to screw humanity. They’ve been going downhill since Day One and haven’t been able to recover yet.

They had their time.
Over-relied on their Gods.
They keep blowing up their own kingdoms whenever a Charr even comes close to their gates.
Not a sustainable practice.
But hey, they grow good hay.

Charr are more like Orcs with dwarven elements.

In many fantasy games, Orcs are known for their military/barbarian culture(As well as makeshift technology in futuristic settings) and are sometimes considered outstanding blacksmiths (If dwarves have less of a spotlight). Charr technology isn’t garbage though(Hence the dwarven aspect).

Son of Elias.5420:

Well, except that we haven’t even been to Elona yet in GW2 and that has nothing to do with Ascalon falling to the charr or Orr sinking into the sea; both of which happened way back in GW1. Heck, Ascalon fell in literally the first five minutes of the game depending on how long you wandered around Pre-Searing.

So it’s not like the writers are going out of their way to screw humanity. They’ve been going downhill since Day One and haven’t been able to recover yet.

Yeah they kinda did.

I mean in GW1 you were the great hero that defeated the greatest threats to the world of Tyria and in the process gained the respect and gratitude of many nations/organisations/clans and different races, yet you weren’t able use ANY of that to help free your own homeland (providing your character was of Ascalonian decent).

You’d think your character being the hero that he/she was would of done something to help but after the “The Last Day Dawns” quest, it looks like he/she never looked back.

Oglaf.1074:

The way he worded it, he compared them to the ditsy naiveté of the Sylvari, which is blatantly wrong.

Okay sorry for the poor choice of words. Though if you ever read any other post I made on this forum you should know that I would never ever in a million years put the salad-troop on the same level as freaking shapeshifting vikings.

Jaqalope.6175:

They had their time.
Over-relied on their Gods.
They keep blowing up their own kingdoms whenever a Charr even comes close to their gates.
Not a sustainable practice.
But hey, they grow good hay.

“Had their time”

Fair enough.

“Over-relied on their Gods.”

If anything it was the other way round. Humans ended up having to fix problems caused by their gods including putting down a resergence of 3 fallen gods: Abbadon who humans kill, Dhuum who they weaken and lock away again, and Menzies whos forces they put down even if they never come face to face with the guy himself.

Hell, one of the deciding factors in the charr’s invasion of Ascalon was Abbadon, a former human god, giving the charr the power of the Searing. The charr would have had a hell of a harder time taking Ascalon without that.

“They keep blowing up their own kingdoms whenever a Charr even comes close to their gates.”

Strickly speaking the charr blew up Ascalon first. Its was a smoldering wreckage by the time the foefire was used. And Orr was again the work of one of Abbadon’s agents, the guy backing the charr at the time.

Kryta beat back the charr with the help of the Mursaat though they basicly became subservent to the Mursaat for a while as a result.

“Not a sustainable practice.”

Actually humans are probably a lot better at sustainable activities than the charr. Charr arent really that interested in the enviroment past how they can use it.

“But hey, they grow good hay.”

The BEST hay thankyou very much.

Abaddon.6175:

Yeah they kinda did.

I mean in GW1 you were the great hero that defeated the greatest threats to the world of Tyria and in the process gained the respect and gratitude of many nations/organisations/clans and different races, yet you weren’t able use ANY of that to help free your own homeland (providing your character was of Ascalonian decent).

You’d think your character being the hero that he/she was would of done something to help but after the “The Last Day Dawns” quest, it looks like he/she never looked back.

The impression I get is that Guild Wars Beyond is/was intended to set up a situation where the PCs realised that Adelbern’s grasp on sanity was so thin that trying to help Ascalon while he was in charge was just a waste of effort, and got everyone out who was willing to come and washed their hands of the whole affair while hoping that Adelbern would manage to get himself killed while there was still an Ascalon to rescue.

“Actually humans are probably a lot better at sustainable activities than the charr. Charr arent really that interested in the enviroment past how they can use it.”

Actually, a lot of renown hearts in the Charr lands are dedicated to cleaning up the environment.

You make some good points about the Gods; definitely something I’m curious to see more of in GW2.

Humans do seem to be the most politically active; the glue that holds the Pact together. I suppose they have a talent for survival. Endurance would seem to be the overarching theme of humanity.

Humans also seem to have the richest background/culture.
I’m not sure what the Charr would do if they didn’t have a war to wage.

I would also add that Human is the most popular race played, so that has to say something.
Charr are apparently the least popular….there is no accounting for some people.

Humans have faith and they never stop.

In a towertalk interveiw a year ago or so when asked to sum up humans in a couple of words, Ree Soeskittenose tenacity. It seems to be one of the core themes of humans. Humanity are protectors.

Unfortunately its just that their strengths arent showcased well in the current game, particularly we are basicly fighting against an overwhelming foe. Tenacity becomes a neccesary heroic trait for all the races to have to overcome Zhaitan.

Perhaps because its a subtle strength that appears often in the other races, humanity comes off as being weaker and more in decline than it actually is. Certainly humanity doesnt really seem to have it much worse than, say, the charr who have to constantly fight ghost, the brand and face serious opposition from the Flame Legion. Humanity seems to just struggle against centaurs and bandits.

Again, I think the key problem with them is poor presentation of their strengths, a side effect of Arenanet trying to downplay the importance of the formerly dominant race.

Ree Soeskittenose? What did you try to write man? Her name is Ree Soesbee. :P

Lutinz.6915:

Strickly speaking the charr blew up Ascalon first. Its was a smoldering wreckage by the time the foefire was used. And Orr was again the work of one of Abbadon’s agents, the guy backing the charr at the time.

Kryta beat back the charr with the help of the Mursaat though they basicly became subservent to the Mursaat for a while as a result.

But Foefire was not a necessary action. They had a lot of troops, they could retreat leaving the doomed city, and cover the withdrawal of more civilians from Ascalon, in addition to those that have left with Rurik. With these forces, they could greatly strengthen Ebonhawke, create a real state, which could retaliate in the future. But no, I do not want to save my fellow citizens and get my kingdom back, I want to yell “Retreat? LOLNO!” and make a big KABOOM.

Rednik: Not at the time, actually. The assault leading to the Foefire was the culmination of a siege – pretty much by definition that means that at the time Ascalon City fell, the charr armies were blocking off all potential routes of escape. Once both the gate and the Ascalonian army had failed, the best anyone in the city could hope for (for a certain dubious meaning of ‘best’) was to become a prisoner of the charr – and we have a lot of evidence from the time that being a prisoner of the charr was not a happy situation to be in.

While Adelbern was clearly a lunatic, at that stage the Foefire was probably actually a sound tactical decision – it wiped out the charr army that might otherwise have moved directly to Ebonhawke, and by the time the charr military recovered they also had an army of ghosts on their doorstep giving them something else to think about besides Ebonhawke. Holding back from initiating the Foefire probably would not have helped Ebonhawke in the slightest, while it’s quite possible that the Foefire is the only reason Ebonhawke remained in human hands.

human kind will prevail :p

draxynnic.3719:

Rednik: Not at the time, actually. The assault leading to the Foefire was the culmination of a siege – pretty much by definition that means that at the time Ascalon City fell, the charr armies were blocking off all potential routes of escape. Once both the gate and the Ascalonian army had failed, the best anyone in the city could hope for (for a certain dubious meaning of ‘best’) was to become a prisoner of the charr – and we have a lot of evidence from the time that being a prisoner of the charr was not a happy situation to be in.

While Adelbern was clearly a lunatic, at that stage the Foefire was probably actually a sound tactical decision – it wiped out the charr army that might otherwise have moved directly to Ebonhawke, and by the time the charr military recovered they also had an army of ghosts on their doorstep giving them something else to think about besides Ebonhawke. Holding back from initiating the Foefire probably would not have helped Ebonhawke in the slightest, while it’s quite possible that the Foefire is the only reason Ebonhawke remained in human hands.

Number of troops in Ascalon City were probably much larger than needed just to hold the city enough to have time to prepare a blast. King is collected all that he could – we see that the areas outside the city were also filled with troops, because today there are a lot of ghosts (which means that they were alive at the time of the explosion), and almost all of them are soldiers. Soldiers, who were able to retreat along with the refugees and help them survive, rather than to die in explosion. What sense was to kill an entire army when you can give away only a part of it and let the others fight to protect the citizens who are still alive?
Therefore, I believe that the Adelbern could do much more to save the remnants of his kingdom, but did not want to do that. He wanted only power and revenge.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Ree Soeskittenose? What did you try to write man? Her name is Ree Soesbee. :P

Soeskittenose without the space. Funny how it corrected though.

Edit: As you can see even with the space it censures. It was

Soesbee

chose

CENSURE THAT FORUM!!!!

When playing any game that styles itself in the fantasy genre I can generally go into it knowing I’m going to be ashamed of humans. So; always.

TheNextGuy.4521:

How are they one of the weakest factions technological and number wise, what has happened to them.

At least they’re not as weak as the Sylvari in those aspects.

Rednik.3809:

draxynnic.3719:

Rednik: Not at the time, actually. The assault leading to the Foefire was the culmination of a siege – pretty much by definition that means that at the time Ascalon City fell, the charr armies were blocking off all potential routes of escape. Once both the gate and the Ascalonian army had failed, the best anyone in the city could hope for (for a certain dubious meaning of ‘best’) was to become a prisoner of the charr – and we have a lot of evidence from the time that being a prisoner of the charr was not a happy situation to be in.

While Adelbern was clearly a lunatic, at that stage the Foefire was probably actually a sound tactical decision – it wiped out the charr army that might otherwise have moved directly to Ebonhawke, and by the time the charr military recovered they also had an army of ghosts on their doorstep giving them something else to think about besides Ebonhawke. Holding back from initiating the Foefire probably would not have helped Ebonhawke in the slightest, while it’s quite possible that the Foefire is the only reason Ebonhawke remained in human hands.

Number of troops in Ascalon City were probably much larger than needed just to hold the city enough to have time to prepare a blast. King is collected all that he could – we see that the areas outside the city were also filled with troops, because today there are a lot of ghosts (which means that they were alive at the time of the explosion), and almost all of them are soldiers. Soldiers, who were able to retreat along with the refugees and help them survive, rather than to die in explosion. What sense was to kill an entire army when you can give away only a part of it and let the others fight to protect the citizens who are still alive?
Therefore, I believe that the Adelbern could do much more to save the remnants of his kingdom, but did not want to do that. He wanted only power and revenge.

As Drax said, Adelbern was crazy. Back in GW1 I always called him Adledbrains because of the obviousness of his madness. He tried to single handedly stave off the titan invasion of Ascalon City, and only survived because of our presence. In the end the Foefire may have been a strategic choice, but it was not done by a strategic man. It was done by a man that had lost everything worth living for. And because of this he decided to make the Charr fail. He created a Stalemate so that his enemies could not win.

On the topic, I would never be ashamed of a race that was able to survive a 250 (ish) year siege against one of the most technologically advanced races in Tyria. Just sayin’.

Thing is. Humans are made after a races which exist beyond fiction. You would be hard pressed to find MMORPG with no human like race.

Also while in lore, some major race can be killed off. It is almost never human race unless it is saved in the end (Heck, in some fiction last human survivor goes back in time to change the future so that the human race will survive.) Heck in fiction not even fallout stop humanity even if it does not make any factual sense.

Rednik.3809:

Number of troops in Ascalon City were probably much larger than needed just to hold the city enough to have time to prepare a blast. King is collected all that he could – we see that the areas outside the city were also filled with troops, because today there are a lot of ghosts (which means that they were alive at the time of the explosion), and almost all of them are soldiers. Soldiers, who were able to retreat along with the refugees and help them survive, rather than to die in explosion. What sense was to kill an entire army when you can give away only a part of it and let the others fight to protect the citizens who are still alive?
Therefore, I believe that the Adelbern could do much more to save the remnants of his kingdom, but did not want to do that. He wanted only power and revenge.

The description of what happens in Ghosts of Ascalon is one that makes it sound like the charr well and truly had control of every area we now see ghosts outside the walls of Ascalon City itself.

Yes, we do see ghosts manifesting elsewhere, but there are lots of reasons why there might be ghosts outside the walls of Ascalon City despite not having a force in being outside the walls at the time of the Foefire. They could have been POWs. They could have moved out after the Foefire. They could be appearing in those locations because that’s where they spent most of their time fighting in life, and consider that their billet rather than the location of their final siege. And some were peasants huddling in fear in places the charr hadn’t found yet.

The picture we see from Ghosts of Ascalon is one in which nothing short of a miracle could have saved life and liberty for a single human soul within the city at the time of its fall.

Yeah, the charr had Adelbern beaten. His last move with the foefire was born out of hate, madness and desperation but if we are looking it in a purely tactical sense, and overlooking the horrific fate he forced on almost every ascalonian who had remained to fight for the country, the foefire very effectively damaged the charr’s ablity to wage war.

Firstly it killed off a large number of charr, many of whom would have been quite high ranking and skilled. Secondly it trapped the charr in a war that was unwinable using traditional methods. Even now the charr have only seemed to start to move towards a more perminant solution to their ghost problem but it has consumed a great deal of their strength that could have been focused elsewhere.

I still think the foefire was a terrible thing to do and the charr may have turned on each other as much as invading another area like kryta but its an unknown while the cost of 200 years of fighting ghosts is known.

Son of Elias.5420:

They once had a shining kingdom with a long and storied history, but are getting displaced by the younger, more energetic, races.

Except the humans are one of the youngest races in Tyria. The other races of the world all had their set lands and boundaries and then the humans came along and messed everything up. The Charr used to be animalistic heathens and only started to advance their society and technology when they had to fight the humans to reclaim their homeland.

Rolin.7694:

Except the humans are one of the youngest races in Tyria. The other races of the world all had their set lands and boundaries and then the humans came along and messed everything up. The Charr used to be animalistic heathens and only started to advance their society and technology when they had to fight the humans to reclaim their homeland.

Well, the only thing the humans ‘messed up’ was the charr. The other races never noticed humanity until recently.

But we have the sylvari, who are obviously the youngest race in a literal sense; the asura, who had to restart their society after Primordus awoke; the norn, who had to do the same when Jormag drove them south out of their former lands; and the charr who have a new society based in former human land.

Only the Krytan humans occupy the same territory they had a thousand years ago.

It would be wrong to call humanity one of the oldest races on Tyria. Oldest civilisations however is more solid.

The sylvari are obviously new.

The charr have only once been completely united to our knowledge just before they were invaded by humans. Part of the reason they ended up losing is the Khan-Ur’s sons couldnt stop fighting over who had the right to be the new Khan-Ur. Since then charr development has been strongly influenced by their interactions with humans. They started worshiping the Titans cause humans had gods, they became as militant as they did because they never wanted to be dominated again. Also 250 years ago charr tech was well behind human. Current charr civilisation is pretty new.

Norn civilisation could be argued to be as old or older though we dont know that much about norn history. The norn however have never really been united much as a race. Jormag has forced them to become a more tightly coherent race. The norn never had a city like Hoelbrak before.

Finally the asura are a race with a rebuilt civilisation and in someways as alien to Tyria as the humans were. Its quite possible that the asura have lost as much of their old civilisation as the humans have. All their old city’s were destroyed. If humans are the old masters of the surface Tyria then the asura were the masters of the underground. The biggest difference I suspect between the races is the impact on them of the last 250 years. The Asura seem to have had a more stable and peaceful area to reestablish themselves.

Humans were the old empire. They were the established power. Its their ruins that the charr and at times the sylvari and asura are building on.

I think it’s been explicitly stated that the asura lost a lot with the loss of their underground empire, possibly even more than humans lost with the loss of Orr and Ascalon. However, the asura have had more of a ‘build back up from what we’ve got’ attitude. It probably also helps that the asura didn’t preceed the destroyer awakenings with orchestrated campaigns to kill the best and brightest of the other colleges (or whatever equivalent stratifications there were in asura society at the time).

Jotun was once a intelligent race.

Mursaat used to be a powerful race.

Dwarves used to be a grand race.

All extinct except stupid Jotuns.

Humans on the otherhand survived crises over crises. They survived the Dragons where the past powerful races could not. What is there to be ashamed about?

Son of Elias.5420:

Rolin.7694:

Except the humans are one of the youngest races in Tyria. The other races of the world all had their set lands and boundaries and then the humans came along and messed everything up. The Charr used to be animalistic heathens and only started to advance their society and technology when they had to fight the humans to reclaim their homeland.

Well, the only thing the humans ‘messed up’ was the charr. The other races never noticed humanity until recently.

But we have the sylvari, who are obviously the youngest race in a literal sense; the asura, who had to restart their society after Primordus awoke; the norn, who had to do the same when Jormag drove them south out of their former lands; and the charr who have a new society based in former human land.

Only the Krytan humans occupy the same territory they had a thousand years ago.

Well if a thousands year ago they have Centaurs able to attack the captail city and conteseting all territory in Kryta then yeah they have the same territory.

Killul.9685:

Son of Elias.5420:

Rolin.7694:

Except the humans are one of the youngest races in Tyria. The other races of the world all had their set lands and boundaries and then the humans came along and messed everything up. The Charr used to be animalistic heathens and only started to advance their society and technology when they had to fight the humans to reclaim their homeland.

Well, the only thing the humans ‘messed up’ was the charr. The other races never noticed humanity until recently.

But we have the sylvari, who are obviously the youngest race in a literal sense; the asura, who had to restart their society after Primordus awoke; the norn, who had to do the same when Jormag drove them south out of their former lands; and the charr who have a new society based in former human land.

Only the Krytan humans occupy the same territory they had a thousand years ago.

Well if a thousands year ago they have Centaurs able to attack the captail city and conteseting all territory in Kryta then yeah they have the same territory.

Considering the Centaurs are getting support from humans its not suprising they are penetrating so far into Kryta. Humanity has a big fat cancer eating at it from within at the moment in the form of corrupt ministers, bandits and the White Mantle. Unfortunately its too well hidden at this stage to cut out effectively.

The humans still have the best defenses and the best spellcasters (asura depend on technology for magic too much).

Also, Ascalon and Orr wouldn’t have fallen if Abaddon hadn’t help the charr.

Killul.9685:

Son of Elias.5420:

Rolin.7694:

Except the humans are one of the youngest races in Tyria. The other races of the world all had their set lands and boundaries and then the humans came along and messed everything up. The Charr used to be animalistic heathens and only started to advance their society and technology when they had to fight the humans to reclaim their homeland.

Well, the only thing the humans ‘messed up’ was the charr. The other races never noticed humanity until recently.

But we have the sylvari, who are obviously the youngest race in a literal sense; the asura, who had to restart their society after Primordus awoke; the norn, who had to do the same when Jormag drove them south out of their former lands; and the charr who have a new society based in former human land.

Only the Krytan humans occupy the same territory they had a thousand years ago.

Well if a thousands year ago they have Centaurs able to attack the captail city and conteseting all territory in Kryta then yeah they have the same territory.

Elias’ point is that the humans haven’t been uprooted and forced to move to new lands entirely the way the norn and asura have – although it is worth noting that a thousand years ago, Orr and Ascalon were the important kingdoms and Kryta was a backwater.

It’s also worth noting that the charr have expanded rather than moving – the Iron Legion settled Ascalon, but the bulk of the other legions maintain their own territory in regions we cannot yet access in GW2.

Rolin.7694:

Son of Elias.5420:

They once had a shining kingdom with a long and storied history, but are getting displaced by the younger, more energetic, races.

Except the humans are one of the youngest races in Tyria. The other races of the world all had their set lands and boundaries and then the humans came along and messed everything up. The Charr used to be animalistic heathens and only started to advance their society and technology when they had to fight the humans to reclaim their homeland.

A lot of the ancient history is blur. Humans most likely came directly from Norns. Although how exactly is not known yet. Norns are an ancient race that probably existed since the Age of Giants. At that age True Giants (Lupi), Norns and Jutons ruled the Silver Peaks.

At some point Norns and Jotun both fell from power. True Giants became hermits. And then humans came along.

Humans has the advantage of being smaller than both Charrs and Norns. That means humans probably grow up faster (20 years vs 30 years) and consumes less food. Humans are also the leader in agriculture, providing food supply for all other races fighting the dragons.

CHIPS.6018:

Rolin.7694:

Son of Elias.5420:

They once had a shining kingdom with a long and storied history, but are getting displaced by the younger, more energetic, races.

Except the humans are one of the youngest races in Tyria. The other races of the world all had their set lands and boundaries and then the humans came along and messed everything up. The Charr used to be animalistic heathens and only started to advance their society and technology when they had to fight the humans to reclaim their homeland.

A lot of the ancient history is blur. Humans most likely came directly from Norns. Although how exactly is not known yet. Norns are an ancient race that probably existed since the Age of Giants. At that age True Giants (Lupi), Norns and Jutons ruled the Silver Peaks.

At some point Norns and Jotun both fell from power. True Giants became hermits. And then humans came along.

Humans has the advantage of being smaller than both Charrs and Norns. That means humans probably grow up faster (20 years vs 30 years) and consumes less food. Humans are also the leader in agriculture, providing food supply for all other races fighting the dragons.

It seems unlikely that humans came from the norn since we know that the humans arent native to the world of Tyria. The human gods brought them to Tyria from another world through the mists. Norn seem more likely to be native though why they share similar appearances to humans is anyones guess. Maybe Melandru had some influence on them once long ago.

As for the rest, I think charr age as fast as humans though you might have a point about food since charr are mostly carnivores. Their diets seem much more meat intensive.

I dont know how fast norn age. I know they live alot longer but not how fast they grow up. I always assumed it was the same as for humans and charr.

Norn haven’t shown any sign of maturing slower than humans. They’re said to live comfortably past 100 years old, but rarely do considering their attitude toward mortal danger.

And why does any race have to come from any other race? Maybe they all have unique origins.

Lonami.2987:

Also, Ascalon and Orr wouldn’t have fallen if Abaddon hadn’t help the charr.

But humans hardly have achieved a lot in their conquests, if they did not get the help of their gods. Entire pantheon helped humans achieve greatness – and only one god helped the charr. And it was enough to win.

Rednik.3809:

Lonami.2987:

Also, Ascalon and Orr wouldn’t have fallen if Abaddon hadn’t help the charr.

But humans hardly have achieved a lot in their conquests, if they did not get the help of their gods. Entire pantheon helped humans achieve greatness – and only one god helped the charr. And it was enough to win.

We dont actually know how much the gods directly helped the humans in their war against the charr and their expansion north from Orr. Note Im sticking in particular with tyria the continent. Elsewhere in the world the gods seem to have been mostly less hands on.

Probably one of the biggest contributing factors to the defeat of the charr when the humans first invaded was due to the charr fighting a civil war in the wake of the death of the Khan Ur. The legions were all at each others throats. A unified humanity against four warring charr factions, its not suprising that the humans won, particularly since at the time the humans probably had more advanced technology.

Also note the humans continued to push the charr back for several hundred years after the first conquest of Ascalon to the point where they built their capitol north of the Wall built to keep the charr out.

We also dont know how many of the gods would have been involved in said expansion. Certianly Balthazar was the one pushing for it. Melandru actually argued against it.

Also Ascalon was the main expansion from Orr. Kryta was originally a Elonian Colony.

I think you think the humans were more dependent on their gods than they actually were. Many of humanities greatest moments have been in spite of their gods as much as because of them.

Complacency, the story of our failure in real life.