Guild Wars 2

No really… Putting aside the obvious and glaring similaries to Mass Effect’s universe of alien races bound together in relative peace fighting for the same cause etc etc, am I the only one who finds the lack of open warfare between the main races of the game to be unrealistic?

This is particularly hard to believe given the hyper-militaristic culture of Charr, Norn and Humans to a lesser extent.
Then you have the Asura who have this neo-Nazi ideology of racial superiority.
And finally the Sylvari who just spawn without end, go everywhere and never die, so their population is effectively exploding, consuming the already meagre resources of Tyria.

History has shown us that when pressed by global forces like famine and plague, civilizations turn on themselves.

In this age of the Elder Dragons rampaging the continent and obviously making life economically more difficult for all, it just does not many any sense that the races would all be so welcoming of each other.

And the whole “oh but there’s a common enemy in the Dragons” arguement doesn’t hold water either. Divinity’s Reach is much farther from Zhaitan than the Sylvari and Asura. In the real world, Humans would actually relish that their potential enemies are being chewed up by some other power. Especially the Sylvari since Zhaitan doesn’t become stronger by killing them. They would see Zhaitan as a “Sylvari Problem” and Jormag as a “Norn problem”, Kalk for the Charr especially, humans would be unlikely to have much sympathy. If Kalk could be allied with, Humans would probably go for it.

Sylvari do die, and are the rarest race (in terms of settlements) in the larger world that I’ve seen.

Norn don’t make war, they have fights. Big difference.

Charr and humans have a treaty, explaining why they’re not fighting.

Asura think they’re better than you, but they don’t think you’re bad for being what you are – just that it’s too bad you’re not as great as them. Thus, they’re not Nazis, because they don’t want to kill you for being lesser.

Norn don’t even have a military so can’t see how they’re hyper militaristic, like gulbrand said: They fight, not wage war.

It’s just very hard to imagine these races sitting around Lion’s Arch in peace and relative harmony.

I mean, look at the real world, we’re all human and still we can’t stop warring back and forth for rather contrieved reasons.

Not every race is at peace, just those 4 happen to be. Peace does happen.

Possibly also because everyone else has too much of their own issues to deal with.

Humans are in a perpetual state of war with the centaurs. Sylvari are only 25 years at their oldest, and they live for themselves, if their path leads them to war, they join the Mists Wars. Asura are dealing with inquest and the skritt, not to mention they probably feel that as a whole they’re far too superior to even consider war with such “savages”. Norn fight off the Sons of Svanir and Icebrood, occasionally tangling with Dredge and such, every Norn is out to make a name for himself, and while this does including massive amounts of battling, it doesn’t always have to be explicitly about war. The Charr are battling human seperatists, Charr renegades, the flame legion, and the ghosts of ascalon, the last thing they need is another enemy.

It’s probably because the only major races with a real army are in massive debt.

For hippies they would have written a very violent, wartorn story. Even if the major playable races arent warring with each other (and all of them have civil unrest), there are plenty of races they are fighting actively with.

A few easy answers for why the races are favoring peace.

- The norn are a race more than a nation. Open warfare between nations isnt something they do.

- The charr are pragmatic and have more than enough to fight. Charr love fighting but they arent stupid. They dont like dying. They also like growth and wealth. These things as well as a rather openminded group of Imperitors have lead them to trade and deplomacy. Wars are costly.

- The humans, like the charr, have enough enemies. Infact they gain allot out of having the charr as trade partners. Charr hardware is bound to help the humans greatly in their current battles against the Centuar. As for why they are open to it and looking to contribute, Id point at Queen Jennah and her close encounter with Kralkatorik. Nothing is going to move a leader into action against a threat better than first hand experiance, particularly since Jennah got a glimpse of its mind. She knows exactly what a threat the Dragons are and not suprisingly is quite active in trying to gather the resources to fight them.

- The asura are, for the most part, more interested in being better than conquest. The asura work more like corperations in how they hold and manipulate power. Even now the asura hold control over the fastest and best form of transport across Tyria. However they are also smart enough to recognise the use and value of the other races. Their Eternal Alchemy also has a certain idiology of all things having a part to play.

- The sylvari arent the population explosion your suggesting. To start with they only have one source. Their population growth is more stable than most other races would have. The sylvari also hold a very strict ideology that supports protecting the weak, acting honorably and promoting harmony and peace when you can.

Using real world comparisions isnt really easy. There is no scenario in the real world which would match the situation playing out in Tyria.

Finally Lion’s Arch is held together by one of the most powerful motivators of all: Greed. The open and racially tolerant enviroment of Lion’s Arch makes those living their very wealthy and gives them access to resources and methods they wouldnt have access to in their own racial centers.

The other motivator is fear. Everyone there behaves because misbehaviour is expensive and that makes powerful people very upset.

This is not WoW where all the races are so bigoted and downright idiotic that they cannot see past their own differences and conflicts to attack the giant big bad guy knocking down their front door with a battering ram.

They’re working together.

They’re actually smart.

The short answer to this is: It’s all explained in the lore.

In GW1 the Charr and Humans were at war. They have been for quite some time when you start the game and they were still at war for centuries after you finished it. In Eye of the North you first met/discovered the Asura and Norn and you as the player had to unite the races to fight the destroyers. You even make a few friends among the Charr though it won’t end the war.
As others have pointed out, the Norn don’t have an army. When you finished befriending the Norn and they show up for the final fight their “army” consisted of a hand full of people who are in for an epic fight just for the fun.
The Asura think they are superior to other races and thus destined to rule over them by virtue of their intellect but they are not necessarily interested to destroy them all. Also, what would they do without a proper amount of test objects to test their new inventions?

Further, the books explain a bit of what happened in between GW1 and Gw2. In particular The Ghosts of Ascalon describes how the truce between the Charr and Humans came to be. There is a lot of resentment between the races but they managed to get their kittens together to fight the dragons just before GW2 starts. If you go to Ebonhawke you will find that there are still plenty of Charr and Humans who disagree with the truce. So the situation is far from being all sunshine and lollipops.

Lutinz.6915:

Finally Lion’s Arch is held together by one of the most powerful motivators of all: Greed.

In the Black Citadel, there’s a conversation between Charr talking about this.

One of them is like, “We have the best army, why don’t we just take what we want?” He gets berated for being stupid and short-sighted, and she goes on a mini-lecture. I think this was near the LA portal. At the time I was busy being frustrated trying to get the PoIs, though.

There could maybe be a bit more tension, but at the same time I’m powerfully glad that we don’t have open conflict among the playable species/cultures in this game. As an ex-WoW player, I went through years of endless frustration with atrociously bad writing that tried to have its cake (push PvP via faction hate) and eat it too (neutral factions that had no business being neutral). It just doesn’t work at all.

If France and England, who have been fighting on and off for some thousand years, can ally against a more powerful, common enemy (Germany in WWI and WWII), then so can the Charr and Humans. (used those two races, since they are the one who actually WERE fighting for a long time)

the only thing I gathered from this post is that the OP has no idea what he’s talking about.

@arcqe
That was a very intelligent and insightful response.
I’m sure your mother was glad she had you.

Regarding the Norn:

Yes, they’re nomadic, they don’t organize into traditional armies.
Guess who else is nomadic and doesn’t organize traditional armies?
Huns
Goths
Mongols
etc.
Norn require the same food and water humans have in abundance in Kryta. Realistically, they would be continuously raiding into Eastern Kryta as there are few resources in the mountains.

But more than just being battle-loving nomads, they also continuously seek out stronger opponents, like… oh… that hyper militaristic race with their capital just to the East, the Charr.

The Asura and Sylvari situation is indeed a little harder to predict. What is for sure is that Sylvari need food, water and space, like everyone else. And even if they arrive in alien lands with good intent, the already starving natives may not see it that way.

I can see why the writers setup the world the way they did, it’s more convenient in gameplay terms so that the player can choose any of 5 races and not be obligated to slaughter players of the opposing races.

Your idea of how the world should work doesn’t mesh with ANet’s idea of how the world should work.

Don’t try to fit a square peg into a round hole?

Yes, they’re nomadic, they don’t organize into traditional armies.
Guess who else is nomadic and doesn’t organize traditional armies?
Huns
Goths
Mongols
etc.
Norn require the same food and water humans have in abundance in Kryta. Realistically, they would be continuously raiding into Eastern Kryta as there are few resources in the mountains.

First of all, norn are not nomadic. Nomads do not build gigantic halls like you see in Hoelbrak! They build simple structures which can be knocked down and rebuilt on a regular basis because they move a lot, because that is, in fact, what nomadic means. Hoelbrak is a sign of a people who have every intention of staying right where they are.

The norn are refugees, in some senses – they made a forced migration south because of Jormag’s activity. They tend to be quite independent but gather around central shared places – steads and cities, places to share tales and company, and probably to trade what they have for other things they need. They are strong and can be violent, but they don’t have an army – the ‘norn nation’ rarely unites for anything. Why do you think they tolerate the Sons of Svanir in Hoelbrak? Each to their own. The norn ideal is the hunt, not the war – one norn, or a small group, pitting their strength and their wits against a powerful for or prey. They fight to prove how awesome they are, not for land or wealth.

And that’s just the norn. The charr are warlike, and funnily enough, it’s led to a lot of war! Their society is organised around legions, for kitten’s sake. They are in a truce with Kryta/Ebonhawke now, but it’s a delicate one, and they’re still fighting ghosts and the like.

Sylvari believe “all things have a right to grow” and thus are unlikely to wage war, except on dragon minions. No one knows how long their natural lifespan is, yet. Humans have armies and do fight wars, but you may have noticed the centaurs are their pressing concern. They can barely handle them plus bandits, let alone launch an offensive somewhere else. And asura? War is for big dumb louts. There are much better ways to take over the world. Make everyone dependent on your asura gates, for instance (they have Ebonhawke in their pocket, if they want it). Profit from selling your unique technology, then buy out whatever you need. Physical strength is not an asura strength, so they don’t rely on it.

And Lion’s Arch? It’s supposed to be special. It’s a neutral place, somewhere people can go if they’re sick of their own race’s conflicts or, as someone said above, to make a profit. Merchants often won’t worry about who they’re selling to, if their coin is good. Originally LA was a pirate haven, thus a lawless place. Now there are people raised in Lion’s Arch, who don’t see why charr and humans and whoever else shouldn’t hang out together – they always have.

In short, there’s plenty of conflict in Tyria, just usually on a more local scale than one entire race against another entire race. The races aren’t monolithic; not all asura, or charr, or whatever feel the same. And most region sof Tyria are sufficiently well-supplied with natural resources that a little trade is sufficient – no need to raid others.

Sorry for the wall of text -_-

Like the person above me said, there is war and conflict just not every single race against every single other race. Peace can exists, not every place on earth is locked in war with every other place at the same time.

If that’s what you want, go play 40k it’ll be right up your alley.

arcqe.6734:

the only thing I gathered from this post is that the OP has no idea what he’s talking about.

Yeah and once you pointed it out. He started to insult you.

In other words OP is trying to force real-world’s history to explain how Guild Wars 2’s fiction is faulty because it does not try to follow how stuff has happened in the real world. Well newsflash. In real world we don’t have Six Dragons plus their armies trying to conquer the entire planet for themselves.

I was gonna wall of text this but eh…

The storytelling must be somewhat on the weak side if you’ve managed to play through the whole game without cottoning on to the fact that this peace between the races is not only extremely fragile but such a source of contention that three of the nations (and yes I am not going to say races here) are in civil war, one is crippled by political infighting and the others are both struggling against a moral and cultural revolution that seeks to destroy everything they stand for. Don’t even get me started on Hoelbrek and her allies.

The Elder Dragons have united SOME of the people of Tyria. Yes they are in the majority but only just.

Oh and as for LA… the limitations of the game engine mean that we see LA as this nice happy oasis of culture and co-operation, but the lore suggests that LA is only a nice place if you keep your head above the board. There’s a dark underbelly and a lot of people wary of the mixing taking place. Listen to what the NPCs have to say as you walk around and you’ll see.

ecthelion.6794:

But more than just being battle-loving nomads, they also continuously seek out stronger opponents, like… oh… that hyper militaristic race with their capital just to the East, the Charr.

The Charr actually did engage the Norn. Several Flame and Blood Legion warbands (the equivalent of an advance raiding force, not at all anywhere near the strength of one legion, far less all of them) seeking to expand their homelands in the Far Shiverpeaks marched west, where they encountered the Norn.

Naturally, Charr on a quest to dominate and the prideful, independent Norn clashed with blood and steel.

The warbands were defeated and sent back to Charr territory.

Following the liberation from the Flame Legion, the Charr would encounter the Norn again, this time with renewed respect for their strength and combat capability. It was noted in the lore that if the Charr so much as turned one full legion to the task of destroying the Norn and conquering the Shiverpeaks it would be done, but they are not stupid.

Because you are hyper-militaristic does not mean you cannot think strategically. The Charr are incredibly intelligent, even if their appearance doesn’t always lead to that conclusion. If anything, because you spent the entire history of your race in perpetual war, you would be perhaps the most strategically adept in the world.

They saw an ally in the Norn, and rather than attack that ally as Hitler did to the Soviet Union at the beginning stages of WWII rather than finishing off England when they were down to 99 planes left in their entire Air Force, otherwise completely defeated against the best council of his ranking military advisor Goering… they decided their military might was better spent elsewhere.

After all, the Charr still had their hands full with the humans, the Flame Legion, separatists, the Dragons, etc etc etc.

To defeat the Norn, they’d have to divert the attention of an entire legion… which would cripple them on all fronts.

A race that has devoted their entire existence to war would be able to figure that out. Hyper-militarism, and even a desire for domination, does not exempt you from creating treaties and allies for your survival (if anything, it would be encouraged).