Apostate , the All and implications
The orb that crashes into the centre circle in the vision is the one symbolizing Zhaitan. Atleast if they are in the same position as the map in the Durmand Priory. Zhaitan is the left middle row orb, if you follow him with your eyes you’ll see he swings to the right behind the circle and then to the left into the foreground, before it lights up and crashes into the circle. It’s asumed to represent Zhaitan’s death having an effect on the balance of the All.
You don’t win friends with salad! Sorry I just got caught up in the rhythm.
So even if Zhaitan is the one who crashed (after all we did beat him,right?), what to think about this particular structure in which each dragon/force seems to be pit against another?
And by extension, now that Zhaitan is gone/crashed/assimilated by Tyria or whatever, clearly the balance is gone, ad Modremoth is without his antagonist.
It may explain why this Mordremoth seems so powerful compared to the other dragons, and why it manifests just after Zhaitan’s defeat, but the other dragons still do their unremarkable activities…
I mean, let’s think about it: after Zhaitan’s defeat
Tequatl changed, Sylvari changed, Mordrems appear, and the other dragon factions? Still the old same dudes^^
Ther might be something about it…
And now i think about this little phrase of Scarlet, written in one of the “precursor” of the backpiece with all those blades in it…
A phrase about doing something for Tyria, and an apology to Caithe stating that one day, she’ll understand…
At this point all I could say is: “yeah maybe”. Though I’m not sure if the dragons are that directly pitted against each other. So far we have only been told they don’t work together, but we never saw them actually fighting one another. Do their minions fight in the Crucible of Eternity? I can’t remember, but I haven’t done that dungeon in almost 3 years. But even if they do, those are still special circumstances and not their “natural” environment. So while the dragons don’t work together, they also take not steps at all at working against each other. Either they are content with their territory or they try to avoid being at each others throat as long as possible, so until the races are gone or ressources are scarce.
I also wouldn’t say Mordremoth is the strongest of them, I mean Zhaitan lifted an entire peninsula from the depths of the ocean when he awoke, Jormag shattered the Far Shiverpeaks and Kralkatorrik scared Ascalon and the Crystal Desert just by flying over it. Those are all deeds comparable to Mordy’s vines attacking the ley-lines. Speaking of which, it also must be noted that he was fed with magical energy by Scarlet prior to his awakening, so that might be a reason why he seems so strong. On the other hand, that might be the regular method of dragons awakening, after all we know the Great Destroyer had the duty to wake up Primordus, potenitally by feeding him magic.
And at last, yes we know Zhaitan’s death had consequences, Tequatl’s power boost is confirmed to be one of them. It could still be coincidence that Mordremoth was the one to awaking soon after Zhaitan’s death. In other words, if Zhaitan was still alive, Scarlet still might have been corrupted and awakened Mordy. The only reason I could think of, how Zhaitan’s death could have caused Mordy’s rise, is that Zhaitan might have intervened when Scarlet drilled into the ley-line to get the energy for himself, if he was still alive.
You don’t win friends with salad! Sorry I just got caught up in the rhythm.
The whole opposing-dragons theory has been around for a while now, but it’s really just that. We don’t really have anything to indicate any form of rivalry – be it by nature or by intent – between the dragons yet, nor any alliances, nor even any form of Zhaitan’s death affecting Mordremoth (despite people claiming the shadow tendrils in S2 are such, they’re creations of the Shadow of the Dragon, which existed before Zhaitan’s fall).
Regarding Mordy manifesting after Zhaitan’s defeat – this is pure coincidence in the long run. If your argument were to hold weight there, then Kralkatorrik could only manifest after Primordus’ defeat (or vice versa), and Jormag after the DSD’s defeat (or vice versa). But Mordremoth was the last dragon to wake up – nothing more, nothing less. All dragons have a short period of activity for a few years after they wake up, but then take decades or more to become active again (Jormag’s only now becoming active again after waking, but Zhaitan was active 3 times after waking before his death – this likely due to Zhaitan having a head start with a nation of corpses and magic).
And sylvari didn’t change after Zhaitan’s defeat – they changed after Mordremoth (their creator) rose. You’re linking two separate events as being caused by one.
Tequatl getting a power boost seems to be the only thing that Zhaitan’s death affected – theoretically.
As for Mordy’s power – in all honesty, he’s currently showing to be the weakest but most cunning. Each dragon causes cataclysm when they woke up – Zhaitan rose Orr, Kralkatorrik caused the Dragonbrand, and Jormag shattered the Shiverpeaks creating an in-land ocean. Mordremoth has… spread vines across the continent. Sure, he has reach, but he doesn’t show the destructiveness – yet. Presumably we’ll be seeing said destructiveness with HoT (so we’ve been promised).
Mordy has done no more damage than Primordus, but Primordus has kept deep deep underground while Mordy’s at the surface.
@BuddhaKeks: the minions in CoE do not fight each other – but there’s only one room where multiple minion types are near each other, and it’s a room that Alpha shows up in right after their deaths. CoE wouldn’t be a good example either way, however, as Alpha (and potentially Kudu’s Monster) is indicated to be able to control all of said minions present.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
@BuddhaKeks: the minions in CoE do not fight each other – but there’s only one room where multiple minion types are near each other, and it’s a room that Alpha shows up in right after their deaths. CoE wouldn’t be a good example either way, however, as Alpha (and potentially Kudu’s Monster) is indicated to be able to control all of said minions present.
I thought so, I just wasn’t sure anymore and didn’t want to leave out potenital evidence.
You don’t win friends with salad! Sorry I just got caught up in the rhythm.
But Mordremoth was the last dragon to wake up
That we know of. They could rise in shifts, have separate groups rising at different times. So each group is relative small but overall they can be fairly numerous. It’s not unprecedented https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivQaJwFRowc .
Mordy has done no more damage than Primordus, but Primordus has kept deep deep underground while Mordy’s at the surface.
The original cinematic showed Mordy underground and given that in HoT one of the biomes will be underground / roots there is some argument to be made that Mordy is also underground, just not as far underground as Primordus. Mind you he hasn’t even awoken yet, so its unsure if he’s natural state is to be underground like Primordus.
That we know of. They could rise in shifts, have separate groups rising at different times. So each group is relative small but overall they can be fairly numerous. It’s not unprecedented https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivQaJwFRowc .
We’ve been told numerous times that there are only six Elder Dragons, however.
The original cinematic showed Mordy underground and given that in HoT one of the biomes will be underground / roots there is some argument to be made that Mordy is also underground, just not as far underground as Primordus. Mind you he hasn’t even awoken yet, so its unsure if he’s natural state is to be underground like Primordus.
It wasn’t deep underground, however. So he’d be no more underground than Zhaitan is implied to have been (he couldn’t push up a peninsula and burst out of its surface from ground level).
Primordus was so far underground that most of the surface didn’t even know he existed until long after he rose (there’s a line in Sea of Sorrows where a person indicates that Jormag is the only known Elder Dragon shortly after Zhaitan’s rise, when Zhaitan’s existence is still questioned in the novel).
And Mordremoth is awake – he woke up at the end of S1. Not all cataclysms happen instantly. Jormag took four years to cause all of his mayhem. We’re experiencing his cataclysmic awakening ‘now’ – nearly 2 years after he woke up.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
But Mordremoth was the last dragon to wake up
That we know of. They could rise in shifts, have separate groups rising at different times. So each group is relative small but overall they can be fairly numerous. It’s not unprecedented https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivQaJwFRowc .
Even setting the number aside, we know from the records of the survivors of the last rise that they fought a Zhaitan, and a Primordus, and so on. Unless there are multiple Elder Dragons who go by the same name and exhibit the same powers, we’re dealing with the same set that was active last rise.
On Mordremoth’s alertness level- there does seem to be something of a spectrum there, rather than being an instant jump from ‘asleep’ to ‘awake’. Going back through S2 dialogue, Trahearne says Mordy is “newly awakened” in Echoes of the Past, but also that it’s not “fully awake” as recently as Point of No Return. My personal suspicion is that everything we’ve seen up to this point represents a ‘stirring’ phase, like Primordus underwent in EotN, and that the destruction of the Pact fleet and the start of HoT marks Mordremoth becoming “fully awake”.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
According to the wiki, and specifically the page “elder dragons”, we can see some kind of pattern:
First Primordus, then Jormag,then Zhaitan.
Look carefully at the map of All, there is no line between those 3.
Same thing happen when we’re talking about Bubbles, Modremoth and Kralkatorrik.
But each dragon still has one and only one string that connects it to another dragon.
It might not be rivalry, or antagonism, but there is certainly a reason for that particular link.
And about dragons fighting each other…although proof in-game is still needed, the wiki clearly states that each of the Elder Dragons have their own unique motivation and ways to act, ranging from what they and their minions do to how they corrupt their surroundings and those who seek their power. Similarly, Elder Dragons appear to be hostile to each other, as their minions will fight another dragon’s minions just as they would fight any living creature.
So, i’m not sure if Dragons are really keen on taking out one of their rival in particular, or anyone for that matter.
At that moment, I think that in order to keep that specific order the Apostate talked about , Some Dragons awaken when one is becoming predominent, and in the end, a stalemate is established, with no Dragon claiming a higher position than the others.
It would mean that although the awakening of a dragon is still a disaster, the All still manages to keep Order by making other awakenings, leading to strife (like previous awakenings and wars with elder races), then periods of hibernation (like pre-GW1 Primordus awakening), then the cycle repeats itself.
And about Mordremoth, actually i’m not sure his “stirring” really began with the defeat of Zhaitan.
After all, the Caledon Wurm, Malyck, the very nature of sylvaris…it all seems to be Mordy Actions, albeit not as flashy than the Rise of Orr, etc…but these are still events that attest that Mordremoth was doing something during Zhaitan’s era. (Don’t forget the Inquest, which would need something to happen to notice the 6th elder Dragon and build a room for it in their complex)
And maybe, just maybe, did Scarlet even thought of that when she first saw that vision, and thought the awakening of Mordremoth would keep Zhaitan in check (because in most of her life time, the most menacing Dragon she knew of was Zhaitan).
I mean, her signing is really strange.
And maybe, Mordremoth corruption proved to be too much for her to handle, and she went mad.
And lastly, by saying that a stalemate could be attained, that wouldn’t mean that these dragons would be aware of it. It makes sense that each one of these phenomenon would try to overpower the others, but fortunately until now, don’t succeed.
P.S: Actually, i started this thread because i believed that if some kind of antagonist link could be made between 2 dragons, then it might be possible to determine the sphere of influence (easy one) and also the mean and philosophy behind the corruption for each dragon (that one is hard)
for example:
if Jormag is ice, rock-solid (aka strong), and corrupts by promises of power
then Bubbles would be water, liquid (aka something with no real form), and corrupts by…
It would be nice to be able to guess^^
(edited by Guguwars.4263)
But each dragon still has one and only one string that connects it to another dragon.
It might not be rivalry, or antagonism, but there is certainly a reason for that particular link.
The bold is what you’re lacking any form of support for.
The shape is just 6 orbs around a central orb. Shift the positions of the orbs a bit and you suddenly get the Star of David. There is no ‘certainty’ to any form of link other than all six are part of The All, which encompasses Tyria and several bodies of power which the Elder Dragons appear to be connected to.
All there is, in all honesty, is conspiracy theories. Which doesn’t mean they’re wrong, but it just means there’s no form of certainty.
the wiki clearly states
The wiki is edited by players on a daily basis. It is and has been and likely always will be full of player speculation and more commonly interpretation muddled amongst fact.
At that moment, I think that in order to keep that specific order the Apostate talked about , Some Dragons awaken when one is becoming predominent, and in the end, a stalemate is established, with no Dragon claiming a higher position than the others.
But until Zhaitan’s death, there were five dragons awake and active.
Your argument makes no sense for Mordremoth to wake up specifically because of Zhaitan’s death, when no other parallelism amongst the dragons that one may be able to conjure up results in a similar scenario.
P.S: Actually, i started this thread because i believed that if some kind of antagonist link could be made between 2 dragons, then it might be possible to determine the sphere of influence (easy one) and also the mean and philosophy behind the corruption for each dragon (that one is hard)
Just comparing Zhaitan to Mordremoth – the ‘easiest’ to determine should there be any form of opposites amongst the dragons – there is no relation between plant and mind with death and shadow.
if Jormag is ice, rock-solid (aka strong), and corrupts by promises of power
then Bubbles would be water, liquid (aka something with no real form), and corrupts by…
It would be nice to be able to guess^^
Ice is oft rather brittle, actually – including icebrood ice. Which creates an interesting irony to ‘follow Jormag to become strong’.
And the DSD’s corruption has – by all indication – taken the form not of water, but tentacled creatures. It twists water into something else.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Granted the wiki could not exactly be the best source of information sometimes^^
Then again, don’t be too quick to dismiss some interpretations, because as i said, we’re trying to guess, we are not in the head of creative teams of GW lore^^
About comparing Zhaitan to Mordremoth, at first glance, nothing relates plants to death, mind to shadow…
But think about it:
Plants are the epitome of the notion of life, because they don’t need sustenance except minerals, light and water. (Bacterias apart, the first sign of life we look for is vegetation isn’t it?)
Death implies decay, as we’ve seen with Zhaitan’s reanimation, which almost instantly rise dead people in a state of advanced decay, there is no “fresh” risen ever showed or mentionned.
I mean, even a guy killed 10 min ago would become a Risen with grey skin, as if he were dead for a decade^^
In that sense, it’s not Plant vs Death, but something more akin to Birth Vs Decay.
The same happens when we look at the Mind Vs Shadow, albeit even more strange and unintuitive.
The Risen are all “For Zhaitan”, “Zhaitan will have your soul”, “Zhaitan FTW” etc…
And the whole point of Scarlet’s FB was to show us that she was persuaded to be the one in command, doing what she wanted for herself, etc…
It intrigues me, because it looks like Zhaitan was imposing his will to his minions, by force, contrary to Mordremoth, who seems to use more subtle ways, like instilling doubts, showing traumatic images, etc…but never encourages his minions to shout :“Mordremoth Rulz”…at least not straight from the beginning of the corruption process (the only speaking minions of Mordremoth we encoutered are until now Scarlet, Aerin, and the mordrem guards from the beta, and these look like they’ve been under Mordy for a longer time)
So in the end, that Shadow vs Mind looks awfully like a Dominance vs Persuasion thing.
Zhaitan is all “look who is in command here!”—>big shadow over you
Mordremoth is more “you should do this, you know i’m right”—>try to convince you
In the end, they both corrupt willpower, but not in the same way.
Accroding to wiki which sphere is Dark Green : Zhaitan, and which is Lime Green: Mordremoth. Imo in the centre is going Mordremoth one cuz of actual events. I like to consider that free magic after defeat of Zhaitan backs to world, to the centre, source – something like that, but it is probably not the case, cuz everything that devs done was to set stage for expansion and mordremoth. Final assume: mordemoth orb is going in the centre, that is how I know now what mean Lime Green = Flashy Green, so Dark Green actualy means Weathered Green.
We’ve been told numerous times that there are only six Elder Dragons, however.
Stop stomping on my dreams! XD
Even setting the number aside, we know from the records of the survivors of the last rise that they fought a Zhaitan, and a Primordus, and so on. Unless there are multiple Elder Dragons who go by the same name and exhibit the same powers, we’re dealing with the same set that was active last rise.
One group (for example) has 10,000 year cycle, other’s might have a 25,000 year cycle, which means that more than one rising can occur in the period between the longer risings. So it stands to reason that the group with the sorting cycle would awaken more often and be known about more.
Then again, don’t be too quick to dismiss some interpretations, because as i said, we’re trying to guess, we are not in the head of creative teams of GW lore^^
I’m not so much dismissing the idea of opposition amongst the Elder Dragons themes, but rather saying that we don’t really have much to argue such. With a lot of stretching – about as much as the whole ‘gods = dragons’ theories in their many many forms – you can make Zhaitan and Mordremoth parallels like you did, but you can’t so easily do this for the others.
Plants are the epitome of the notion of life, because they don’t need sustenance except minerals, light and water. (Bacterias apart, the first sign of life we look for is vegetation isn’t it?)
While true, this is only because of their immobility (or rather, very slow movement). Sylvari are outright stated to require more food than normal plants because of their activeness; mordrem would be no different.
In that sense, it’s not Plant vs Death, but something more akin to Birth Vs Decay.
The typical argument is life v death :P
The same happens when we look at the Mind Vs Shadow, albeit even more strange and unintuitive.
The Risen are all “For Zhaitan”, “Zhaitan will have your soul”, “Zhaitan FTW” etc…
And the whole point of Scarlet’s FB was to show us that she was persuaded to be the one in command, doing what she wanted for herself, etc…It intrigues me, because it looks like Zhaitan was imposing his will to his minions, by force, contrary to Mordremoth, who seems to use more subtle ways, like instilling doubts, showing traumatic images, etc…but never encourages his minions to shout :“Mordremoth Rulz”…at least not straight from the beginning of the corruption process (the only speaking minions of Mordremoth we encoutered are until now Scarlet, Aerin, and the mordrem guards from the beta, and these look like they’ve been under Mordy for a longer time)
Mordremoth imposes his will too, just in a different method.
It should be noted, however, that prior to Mordremoth’s rise Jormag was explicitly stated to be the only Elder Dragon to not enslave but rather coerce willing converts. Khrigar Ripjaw tells such to Order of Whispers agents (“That’s what makes Jormag different. Other dragons corrupt creatures in order to enslave them, but Jormag entices victims with promises of power before they’re corrupted.”) – and this isn’t just in reference to the Sons of Svanir, but in general (promises of power was why the jotun under Korag went to follow Jormag). That means that Zhaitan, Kralkatorrik, and Primordus all does this ‘enslavement’ method of corruption; the DSD may or may not, lack of information on it overall should exempt him from the statement, and Mordy’s state at the time should exempt him too.
Unfortunately, Kralkatorrik is on the side of The All as Mordy and Jormag, so one can’t argue that the two sides is what makes one side being controlling and the other subverting.
In the end, they both corrupt willpower, but not in the same way.
The same can be said for ALL Elder Dragons. Every Elder Dragon has shown capable of corrupting the same things, but how they do it, how their corruption takes form, and how their minions act all differ. They share the same basic fundamentals (which, I’d like to note, sylvari lack 100% on each and every case except sexual reproduction), while they have different outlying aspects (and even that differs between sylvari and mordrem).
Accroding to wiki which sphere is Dark Green : Zhaitan, and which is Lime Green: Mordremoth. Imo in the centre is going Mordremoth one cuz of actual events. I like to consider that free magic after defeat of Zhaitan backs to world, to the centre, source – something like that, but it is probably not the case, cuz everything that devs done was to set stage for expansion and mordremoth. Final assume: mordemoth orb is going in the centre, that is how I know now what mean Lime Green = Flashy Green, so Dark Green actualy means Weathered Green.
A lot of people thought the orb crashing into the middle was Mordremoth. But the Durmand Priory’s depiction of the All lines up with Zhaitan being the crashing orb (this is where the wiki gets that).
The center is Tyria, and Zhaitan’s orb crashed into it spreading shadow.
Rather than ‘setting up the expansion’ the cinematic seems to be ‘setting up the reprocussions of the main story’ – given all lore from Hidden Arcana and other parts of Season 1 and Season 2, killing Zhaitan was a very, very bad move.
The annoying thing is that those who knew kitten would hit the fan post-Z’s death are our allies, and were pressing us to kill him.
Makes you rather suspicious of Ogden and the Pale Tree.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop stomping on my dreams! XD
At this point it makes no sense for there to be more Elder Dragons. We’ve seen The All, which is Tyria and its strongest bodies of power – that tie to the ED.
There are only six such bodies of power.
Doesn’t mean there can’t be non-Elder Dragon dragons out there (see: Kuunavang). And it doesn’t mean that there can’t be replacement Elder Dragons (see: Tequatl). But there’s no more than six Elder Dragons.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Accroding to wiki which sphere is Dark Green : Zhaitan, and which is Lime Green: Mordremoth. Imo in the centre is going Mordremoth one cuz of actual events. I like to consider that free magic after defeat of Zhaitan backs to world, to the centre, source – something like that, but it is probably not the case, cuz everything that devs done was to set stage for expansion and mordremoth. Final assume: mordemoth orb is going in the centre, that is how I know now what mean Lime Green = Flashy Green, so Dark Green actualy means Weathered Green.
A lot of people thought the orb crashing into the middle was Mordremoth. But the Durmand Priory’s depiction of the All lines up with Zhaitan being the crashing orb (this is where the wiki gets that).
The center is Tyria, and Zhaitan’s orb crashed into it spreading shadow.
Rather than ‘setting up the expansion’ the cinematic seems to be ‘setting up the reprocussions of the main story’ – given all lore from Hidden Arcana and other parts of Season 1 and Season 2, killing Zhaitan was a very, very bad move.
The annoying thing is that those who knew kitten would hit the fan post-Z’s death are our allies, and were pressing us to kill him.
Makes you rather suspicious of Ogden and the Pale Tree.
So basicaly I denied option that I wanted to be true and belived just for option that I really wasn’t like, but was more "realistic’’ cuz things that we don’t wanna at end always happens to come true:) it is good twist in my thoughts. Thanks.
I was always supicious cuz of that wyld hunt to cleans orr of firstborn treaherne and to defeat zhaitan of caithe, firstborn too.
Question about that cunning ogden:
Get ogden “stoned”? cuz in eotn he was definitely flash thingy, he refuse to ritual. is that ritual so easy to cast again or he changed mind and whoops stone dwarven happens w/o need to perfom again or when dwarvens age they just become that rusty.
Master E and “they” that ogden mysteriously talks about get my interest.
Stop stomping on my dreams! XD
At this point it makes no sense for there to be more Elder Dragons. We’ve seen The All, which is Tyria and its strongest bodies of power – that tie to the ED.
There are only six such bodies of power.
Doesn’t mean there can’t be non-Elder Dragon dragons out there (see: Kuunavang). And it doesn’t mean that there can’t be replacement Elder Dragons (see: Tequatl). But there’s no more than six Elder Dragons.
Strongest bodies of power that we were able to see. What if there are even stronger bodies or equal to dragons or even other ED, but being “relatively” close to “ours” ED we can’t see what is besides, we can’t see full picture of The Eternal Alchemy, the all.
I have in my mind mursaats and one ritual and we see them. Unseen start to become in our eyes real things and in our minds mursaat as race are just spellcasters and soul utilizers.
Everything can come with power and knowledge. So speculate, predict, imagine. Act with wisdom, but act.
On the note of Mordy becoming so powerful after Zhaitan’s death, his being powerful is a result of his awakening. All the dragons woke with a bang before calming down to what they are. Mordy isn’t stronger, he’s doing what the rest did. This was the reason for the pact’s rash attack, they wanted to kill Mordy to prevent his full awakening with would come with a sudden outburst.
So basicaly I denied option that I wanted to be true and belived just for option that I really wasn’t like, but was more "realistic’’ cuz things that we don’t wanna at end always happens to come true:) it is good twist in my thoughts. Thanks.
I was always supicious cuz of that wyld hunt to cleans orr of firstborn treaherne and to defeat zhaitan of caithe, firstborn too.
Question about that cunning ogden:
Get ogden “stoned”? cuz in eotn he was definitely flash thingy, he refuse to ritual. is that ritual so easy to cast again or he changed mind and whoops stone dwarven happens w/o need to perfom again or when dwarvens age they just become that rusty.Master E and “they” that ogden mysteriously talks about get my interest.
Apologies, it’s a bit hard to understand your posts.
You say that the orb crashing into the center (Tyria) being Mordremoth is more realistic, but in all honesty it sounds more realistic and plausible for it to be Zhaitan, who’s death means his magic will seep back into the world – which according to lore from Hidden Arcana, can result in the world becoming chaotic and unyielding. I am not denying you any interpretation though. The lore the developers made would be. So if you’re angry at me – and I can’t tell if you are or aren’t – then… I apologize?
A lot of people are suspicious of the Wyld Hunts being sent to fight the other Elder Dragons. But keep in mind that Wyld Hunts do not come from Mordremoth, and the sylvari PC now has a Wyld Hunt to kill Mordremoth. It’s also been confirmed that Mordremoth utilizes Wyld Hunts – and Dark Hunts given by the Nightmare – to bypass the protections of the Dream/Pale Tree. So it would appear that neither Dream nor Nightmare (and in turn, neither Wyld Hunt nor Dark Hunt) are related to Mordremoth. It is not unlikely that we’ll be having Nightmare Courtiers fighting alongside us for their Dark Hunt also results in them fighting mordrem/Mordremoth.
Ogden did undergo the Rite of the Great Dwarf. As he said in Eye of the North, he will eventually but not yet – this was done to keep him as a hero, no doubt, due to the changed mentality making it odd in lore for him to continue following the GW1 PC. Per dialogue from Ogden during the norn Personal Story, ALL living dwarves – even Stone Summit – underwent the Rite 200-some years prior to the Personal Story.
It’s unclear how easy the Rite is to cast, but the only component there seemed to be was the Hammer of the Great Dwarf and some fancy words. Either way, the rite was utilized at least once again, on the remaining dwarven race.
Strongest bodies of power that we were able to see. What if there are even stronger bodies or equal to dragons or even other ED, but being “relatively” close to “ours” ED we can’t see what is besides, we can’t see full picture of The Eternal Alchemy, the all.
I have in my mind mursaats and one ritual and we see them. Unseen start to become in our eyes real things and in our minds mursaat as race are just spellcasters and soul utilizers.
Everything can come with power and knowledge. So speculate, predict, imagine. Act with wisdom, but act.
Given Ogden’s lines during Hidden Arcana about the Eternal Alchemy and The All (they are not the same), it’s possible there’s ‘more we can’t see’ out there. But the Apostate’s lore and Ogden’s dialogue indicates that there are six bodies of power in perfect balance and the removal of one can lead to worldly destruction (killing Zhaitan? Bad idea) – any additional bodies of power would be separate from these six.
The mursaat’s invisibility was a case of them hiding part-way in the Mists. Souls can do the same, and naturally reside in this spirit realm. Ascension and Weh no Su are obtained from different methods, but hold the same results – being able to see into the spirit realm (aka part of the Mists that overlap with Tyria). We even see this spirit realm in the norn Personal Story, Defend the Mists bio option. I can’t imagine that this is in any way related to being able to see all of The All or not.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Apologies, it’s a bit hard to understand your posts.
You say that the orb crashing into the center (Tyria) being Mordremoth is more realistic, but in all honesty it sounds more realistic and plausible for it to be Zhaitan, who’s death means his magic will seep back into the world – which according to lore from Hidden Arcana, can result in the world becoming chaotic and unyielding. I am not denying you any interpretation though. The lore the developers made would be. So if you’re angry at me – and I can’t tell if you are or aren’t – then… I apologize?
xD I thanked you for clarification. It wasn’t that kind of ‘thank’ like I’m dissapointed or me being resentful or sarcastic or somethig like that. Zhaitan in centre was option that I prefer more.
I admit that I’m hard to understant.
A lot of people are suspicious of the Wyld Hunts being sent to fight the other Elder Dragons. But keep in mind that Wyld Hunts do not come from Mordremoth, and the sylvari PC now has a Wyld Hunt to kill Mordremoth. It’s also been confirmed that Mordremoth utilizes Wyld Hunts – and Dark Hunts given by the Nightmare – to bypass the protections of the Dream/Pale Tree. So it would appear that neither Dream nor Nightmare (and in turn, neither Wyld Hunt nor Dark Hunt) are related to Mordremoth. It is not unlikely that we’ll be having Nightmare Courtiers fighting alongside us for their Dark Hunt also results in them fighting mordrem/Mordremoth.
I was more about that Pale Tree having its own plans =wyld hunt, while both Pale Tree and Mordremoth have a bit of capability to infiltrate each other.
Ogden did undergo the Rite of the Great Dwarf. As he said in Eye of the North, he will eventually but not yet – this was done to keep him as a hero, no doubt, due to the changed mentality making it odd in lore for him to continue following the GW1 PC. Per dialogue from Ogden during the norn Personal Story, ALL living dwarves – even Stone Summit – underwent the Rite 200-some years prior to the Personal Story.
Thanks.
The mursaat’s invisibility was a case of them hiding part-way in the Mists. Souls can do the same, and naturally reside in this spirit realm. Ascension and Weh no Su are obtained from different methods, but hold the same results – being able to see into the spirit realm (aka part of the Mists that overlap with Tyria). We even see this spirit realm in the norn Personal Story, Defend the Mists bio option. I can’t imagine that this is in any way related to being able to see all of The All or not.
I took that reasoning about mursaats and their invisibility just to hint that we not always see everything even if it exists just in front of us. Then we can do something or something happens and we see bigger picture of everything. Puzzles.
(edited by Mem no Fushia.7604)
From my recall of the interviews regarding the Rite, it wasn’t a matter of multiple Rites, but that the effect of the Rite could be delayed through willpower. Ogden delayed it so he could continue to work with the PC more effectively, and the Stone Summit held it off because kitten sacrificing their race for the benefit of others, but eventually they all succumbed without the need for additional Rites.
Regarding the effect of killing dragons – I don’t think that the message of Season 2 was that killing Zhaitan was a bad thing, but that it had consequences (including powering up the other dragons… but also the magic available to mortal races as well). Since Zhaitan was going on the offensive, taking it down was probably still the lesser evil – however, the races need to be aware that they need to have a plan for how excess magic is going to be removed should all the dragons be slain. However, there are a few various suggestions as to how this might happen – such as attempting to replace the elder dragons with friendlier ones, or setting up something like the Bloodstone. (While the modern races don’t have the magical knowledge the elder races did, magitech for gathering and storing magic exists, so the capability to produce a new bloodstone may not be out of reach.)
The catch-22 is that while there are risks in killing the dragons, choosing not to seems to ultimately be a choice to let civilisation be destroyed. The elder races survived, but that was with the assistance of a turned elder dragon, and arguably they only succeeded on holding on rather than thriving – none of their civilisations appeared to have survived on Tyria to the present day (the dwarves and mursaat probably did the best, but both essentially fell in GW1). The long-term solution seems to be one of defeating the dragons and replacing them with a less destructive magic regulation means.
Regarding the various Hunts: I think the Wyld Hunts at least are signs that there are other influences in the Dream that are fighting for control of the sylvari from Mordremoth. The Dark Hunts I’m not sure about – with Mordremoth awakening, I could see it turning out that the Nightmare was essentially Mordremoth’s subconscious working to achieve some of his goals before he had the strength to fully exert his control over Mordremoth. Certainly, the Dark Hunt to reveal the Harbinger seems to have been in line with Mordremoth’s goals – Caithe believed that the end result of the revelation that there are additional Trees would be that the Nightmare Court might be emboldened to attack and destroy the Pale Tree, and Mordremoth wants the Pale Tree destroyed so she can no longer fight with him over sylvari destiny.
To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.