Guild Wars 2

Like, look at every fantasy or sci-fi world (or even on real world, but we have no competition here). Humans not always strongest or have higher population, not first in technology, not most brutal or cunning race.. but humans always best killers, like they’re always win, they’re always destroys enemy in any circumstance.

Yep, humans was on edge of extinction in Tyria (but humans like roaches, they’re can’t extinct completely) but are they’re most dangerous thing in the world?

Hardly..
If they were the most dangerous thing in the world then their population would be thriving because they would have defeated the Centaurs and driven the Charr back from Ascalon.
Norn and Charr would probably beat a human in terms of raw strength while Asura certainly have a lot more technological prowess.

Humans are scrappy, that’s what they have going for them. They refuse to be wiped out and have managed to build a sizable city in Divinity’s Reach. But they certainly aren’t the most advanced killers…

Human population in Tyria is reducing, between civil wars and foreign wars (charrs, centaurs, dragon minions) they aren’t expanding much.
Charrs expanded to Ascalon, Norns moved southern in Shiverpeaks and expanded their numbers and places compared to 250 years ago, Asuras expanded Rata Sum and their labs across the world (CoE, Thaumanova …), Sylvari is tricky to say since they only have 25 years of existence, humans lost Ascalon, had to rebuild Lions Arch, lost Orr long time ago, they only made Divinity’s Reach and moved there.

As the others have basically said, I wouldn’t count the ability to not be completely exterminated the same as being the best killers. Otherwise, the asura and skritt would be right up there with them for moving topside.

Often times, the ability to always win in various fantasy universes is an illusion created by focusing on their one last chance to pull off a win.

Belzebu.3912:

Human population in Tyria is reducing, between civil wars and foreign wars (charrs, centaurs, dragon minions) they aren’t expanding much.
Charrs expanded to Ascalon, Norns moved southern in Shiverpeaks and expanded their numbers and places compared to 250 years ago, Asuras expanded Rata Sum and their labs across the world (CoE, Thaumanova …), Sylvari is tricky to say since they only have 25 years of existence, humans lost Ascalon, had to rebuild Lions Arch, lost Orr long time ago, they only made Divinity’s Reach and moved there.

But humans are cowards. And this isn’t insult, it’s a gift. Charr and Norn better die in fight, covered in blood. Asura will never betray his inventions and science and give his life to protect, sylvaris are just plants, they’re don’t even have own mind.

But humans.. experts of survival, humans too afraid of death – look at Ascalon, how many Charr-ghost do you see? 0. Humans will hold on life as hard as no one can.

Often times, the ability to always win in various fantasy universes is an illusion created by focusing on their one last chance to pull off a win.

Yes! Last Chance! All humans need! Survive enough to wait possiblity of this BRITLLIANT Last Chance, stike back as hard as you can and pray it works.. and if it is not – survive, hide from death, wait for another last chance

The only reason humans are doing so bad is because Arenanet wanted to make it more fair for the other races. In guild wars 1 you could only play humans, but now we can play 4 more races so Arenanet wanted to even the score.

Face it people, humans are not doing so bad because they are weaker. They are the victim of the greatest nerf ever inflicted on a game in mmo history.

Humans are great survivals, I totally agree. Humans are the “most advanced killers”, really far from be true.

Humans in this game could be seen in a similar light to say the fall of the Aztecs as they both created tons of enemies around them (charr, centaurs, grawl, mursaat, and tengu to name a few) or an in game example could be the forgotten. This all being said my guess would still be they are still one of the most powerful races in Tyria (if Cantha is anything like it used to be) They most certainly aren’t the most advanced killers though.

Humans survived because they are good at hiding behind walls.

Bring them outside and you have a graveyard.

runeblade.7514:

Humans survived because they are good at hiding behind walls.

Bring them outside and you have a graveyard.

Whatever it takes to survive. It’s an excellent strategy, the only reason it didn’t work in Ascalon was because the Titans gave the charr a magic nuke.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

runeblade.7514:

Humans survived because they are good at hiding behind walls.

Bring them outside and you have a graveyard.

Whatever it takes to survive. It’s an excellent strategy, the only reason it didn’t work in Ascalon was because the Titans gave the charr a magic nuke.

Searing Cauldron destroyed the Great wall.

Charr siege weapons destroyed Ascalon City’s walls. Charr’s might destroyed Ascalonian soldiers.

In the end, brave soldiers are a city’s strongest tower of defense. Ascalonian were cowards and weak, so they lost.

Humans being dangerous? Hardly.

runeblade.7514:

Searing Cauldron destroyed the Great wall.

Charr siege weapons destroyed Ascalon City’s walls. Charr’s might destroyed Ascalonian soldiers.

In the end, brave soldiers are a city’s strongest tower of defense. Ascalonian were cowards and weak, so they lost.

Humans being dangerous? Hardly.

Brave soldiers? It took the Charr twenty years to finally mount that attack on Ascalon City. It’s pretty hard to be a brave soldier when have been living in an apocalyptic wasteland for twenty years, and the only things you know are constant starvation, despair, and it’s only a matter of time before you and your friends and family die at the hands of the Charr.

You can’t really blame them for running. Their deaths would have been certain if they stayed, and if miraculously they did survive the battle; they get to see all the things they lived and cared for destroyed before their eyes. Then, the Charr would have probably killed them anyway.

Yeah, I’m sensing a bit of charr propaganda here…

The effect of the Searing really cannot be overstated. Pyre probably said it best with his comment of “You can rebuild Ascalon… when you can eat ash and sleep in flame”.

The breaching of the Great Wall was actually a relatively minor effect of the Searing – as demonstrated by how Ascalon was still able to use it as an effective defense during the time of Prophecies. What the Searing did, however, was kill at least half of Ascalon’s population, both military and civilian, as well as all or most of their means of producing the resources needed to carry out a war. Now, the charr lost an army in the Cataclysm, but their homeland and civilian population was pretty much untouched.

It’s hard to come up with a historical analogy for just how one-sided that war was when you think about it. The best I can think of is if the US had nuked not just Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but had decided from the outset to nuke every major city and piece of farmland in Japan and then left, and then after what was left of the Japanese had crawled out from their ruins and shelters and started attempting to rebuild, Communist China had invaded.

It’s a miracle that Ascalon held out for the generation that it did, particularly when that xenophobic moron Adelbern refused any assistance from potential allies. With that record of resilience, it’s plausible that if Adelbern had been killed in the Searing and replaced with someone like Barradin or Rurik with their sanity intact and without an overwhelming prejudice against the other human kingdoms, it’s possible that the front line would have still been at the Wall, not in the Fields of Ruin.

runeblade.7514:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

runeblade.7514:

Humans survived because they are good at hiding behind walls.

Bring them outside and you have a graveyard.

Whatever it takes to survive. It’s an excellent strategy, the only reason it didn’t work in Ascalon was because the Titans gave the charr a magic nuke.

Searing Cauldron destroyed the Great wall.

Charr siege weapons destroyed Ascalon City’s walls. Charr’s might destroyed Ascalonian soldiers.

In the end, brave soldiers are a city’s strongest tower of defense. Ascalonian were cowards and weak, so they lost.

Humans being dangerous? Hardly.

hahaha.

A weapon from the Titans (not the charr) destroyed the Ascalonian wall
The Charr destroyed the ravaged land that was left (And they couldn’t even do that because of the Foefire).

And after that, All their might couldn’t even destroy Fort Ebonhawke.

Humans would have won if their magic weren’t limited by laws and rules from “The Order of Necromancers”. Who cares about honor and morality when people are dying everyday in a battle of extermination?

You got illegal poison gas? You throw that poison gas at them Charrs son!

Be angry at Vizier Khilbron all you want. He got it done. It was better for Orr to be destroyed than all of humanity to be destroyed.

(Madness? Nope. If he didn’t do that, there would be no Kryta and no Ascalon.)

If all humans followed Varesh Ossa and Abaddon and transformed into Margonites, they would have push back the Charrs. Not to mention if Abaddon successfully escape, he would have wipe out the Charrs by himself for his followers.

(Madness? Nope. Look at what the Dwarfs, Kurzicks and Luxons did. Its EXACTLY the same thing. Yet we do not see anyone calling Dwarfs, Kurzicks and Luxons evil. The story is told by the victor, that’s all.)

Forbidden Jutsu all the way! Praise Abaddon! He is only god that stood behind his promise of power to humanity! The other 5 gods are all talk no action!

I’m pretty sure that’s tongue-in-cheek, but as a lore point, I don’t think the Luxons had any transformations – they raised siege turtles instead.

Humans are good at Scorched Earth tactics. If we can’t have our land, no one can! If we go down, we’ll take you with us!

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Humans are good at Scorched Earth tactics. If we can’t have our land, no one can! If we go down, we’ll take you with us!

If all humans are Margonites and Abaddon is fighting ahead of us, we won’t need to scorch earth. Charrs are the ones that will be scorching earth.

Even elder dragons will tremble in fear when they see us.

CHIPS.6018:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Humans are good at Scorched Earth tactics. If we can’t have our land, no one can! If we go down, we’ll take you with us!

If all humans are Margonites and Abaddon is fighting ahead of us, we won’t need to scorch earth. Charrs are the ones that will be scorching earth.

Even elder dragons will tremble in fear when they see us.

Yea.. why humans so love to be enslaved for MOAR POWAH

draxynnic.3719:

Yeah, I’m sensing a bit of charr propaganda here…

The effect of the Searing really cannot be overstated. Pyre probably said it best with his comment of “You can rebuild Ascalon… when you can eat ash and sleep in flame”.

The breaching of the Great Wall was actually a relatively minor effect of the Searing – as demonstrated by how Ascalon was still able to use it as an effective defense during the time of Prophecies. What the Searing did, however, was kill at least half of Ascalon’s population, both military and civilian, as well as all or most of their means of producing the resources needed to carry out a war. Now, the charr lost an army in the Cataclysm, but their homeland and civilian population was pretty much untouched.

It’s hard to come up with a historical analogy for just how one-sided that war was when you think about it. The best I can think of is if the US had nuked not just Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but had decided from the outset to nuke every major city and piece of farmland in Japan and then left, and then after what was left of the Japanese had crawled out from their ruins and shelters and started attempting to rebuild, Communist China had invaded.

It’s a miracle that Ascalon held out for the generation that it did, particularly when that xenophobic moron Adelbern refused any assistance from potential allies. With that record of resilience, it’s plausible that if Adelbern had been killed in the Searing and replaced with someone like Barradin or Rurik with their sanity intact and without an overwhelming prejudice against the other human kingdoms, it’s possible that the front line would have still been at the Wall, not in the Fields of Ruin.

actually I think a pretty perfect example of this exists in history of the real world, which would be the European advance into the Americas, some historians estimate that up to 90% of the native American tribes were killed off by European germs (diseases that Europeans had built up and immunity to, these diseases are generally thought to have come from the domesticate animals of Europe) If you are interested in this here is a good book: Guns, Germs, and Steel

CHIPS.6018:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Humans are good at Scorched Earth tactics. If we can’t have our land, no one can! If we go down, we’ll take you with us!

If all humans are Margonites and Abaddon is fighting ahead of us, we won’t need to scorch earth. Charrs are the ones that will be scorching earth.

Even elder dragons will tremble in fear when they see us.

So similar to how Balthazar commanded the humans to essentially commit genocide on all the races of tyria and claim the land for themselves, and then left when things got tough. (I know this isn’t exactly true). “It was Balthazar who urged humanity to engage the other races in battle and claim the world for themselves, believing the other races would fall easily.” So invaders from another world come and try to wipe out all opposition, but they fail and instead claim and settle in the lands they have conquered and you expect the native races of this world to not hold a grudge, hmmm.

Infamous Darkness.3284:

CHIPS.6018:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Humans are good at Scorched Earth tactics. If we can’t have our land, no one can! If we go down, we’ll take you with us!

If all humans are Margonites and Abaddon is fighting ahead of us, we won’t need to scorch earth. Charrs are the ones that will be scorching earth.

Even elder dragons will tremble in fear when they see us.

So similar to how Balthazar commanded the humans to essentially commit genocide on all the races of tyria and claim the land for themselves, and then left when things got tough. (I know this isn’t exactly true). “It was Balthazar who urged humanity to engage the other races in battle and claim the world for themselves, believing the other races would fall easily.” So invaders from another world come and try to wipe out all opposition, but they fail and instead claim and settle in the lands they have conquered and you expect the native races of this world to not hold a grudge, hmmm.

Not our fault the gods dumped us here. For all the we know the gods were aliens who kidnapped us from earth and dumped us on Tyria as some sort of wicked experiment. And because they were so advanced they might seem as gods to us.

In any case, we do not know anything about the origins of humanity. All we know is that they came from somewhere else.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Infamous Darkness.3284:

CHIPS.6018:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Humans are good at Scorched Earth tactics. If we can’t have our land, no one can! If we go down, we’ll take you with us!

If all humans are Margonites and Abaddon is fighting ahead of us, we won’t need to scorch earth. Charrs are the ones that will be scorching earth.

Even elder dragons will tremble in fear when they see us.

So similar to how Balthazar commanded the humans to essentially commit genocide on all the races of tyria and claim the land for themselves, and then left when things got tough. (I know this isn’t exactly true). “It was Balthazar who urged humanity to engage the other races in battle and claim the world for themselves, believing the other races would fall easily.” So invaders from another world come and try to wipe out all opposition, but they fail and instead claim and settle in the lands they have conquered and you expect the native races of this world to not hold a grudge, hmmm.

Not our fault the gods dumped us here. For all the we know the gods were aliens who kidnapped us from earth and dumped us on Tyria as some sort of wicked experiment. And because they were so advanced they might seem as gods to us.

In any case, we do not know anything about the origins of humanity. All we know is that they came from somewhere else.

So the confusion and disorientation, as well as possible memory loss led you to take up weapons and massacre all native species…until you could kill them no more (“in all honesty my sword arm was getting tired”). shame on you (for defending this kind of behavior)

Infamous Darkness.3284:

draxynnic.3719:

Yeah, I’m sensing a bit of charr propaganda here…

The effect of the Searing really cannot be overstated. Pyre probably said it best with his comment of “You can rebuild Ascalon… when you can eat ash and sleep in flame”.

The breaching of the Great Wall was actually a relatively minor effect of the Searing – as demonstrated by how Ascalon was still able to use it as an effective defense during the time of Prophecies. What the Searing did, however, was kill at least half of Ascalon’s population, both military and civilian, as well as all or most of their means of producing the resources needed to carry out a war. Now, the charr lost an army in the Cataclysm, but their homeland and civilian population was pretty much untouched.

It’s hard to come up with a historical analogy for just how one-sided that war was when you think about it. The best I can think of is if the US had nuked not just Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but had decided from the outset to nuke every major city and piece of farmland in Japan and then left, and then after what was left of the Japanese had crawled out from their ruins and shelters and started attempting to rebuild, Communist China had invaded.

It’s a miracle that Ascalon held out for the generation that it did, particularly when that xenophobic moron Adelbern refused any assistance from potential allies. With that record of resilience, it’s plausible that if Adelbern had been killed in the Searing and replaced with someone like Barradin or Rurik with their sanity intact and without an overwhelming prejudice against the other human kingdoms, it’s possible that the front line would have still been at the Wall, not in the Fields of Ruin.

actually I think a pretty perfect example of this exists in history of the real world, which would be the European advance into the Americas, some historians estimate that up to 90% of the native American tribes were killed off by European germs (diseases that Europeans had built up and immunity to, these diseases are generally thought to have come from the domesticate animals of Europe) If you are interested in this here is a good book: Guns, Germs, and Steel

It is a good analogy, minus the complete and utter destruction of the ecosystem.

Infamous Darkness.3284:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Infamous Darkness.3284:

CHIPS.6018:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Humans are good at Scorched Earth tactics. If we can’t have our land, no one can! If we go down, we’ll take you with us!

If all humans are Margonites and Abaddon is fighting ahead of us, we won’t need to scorch earth. Charrs are the ones that will be scorching earth.

Even elder dragons will tremble in fear when they see us.

So similar to how Balthazar commanded the humans to essentially commit genocide on all the races of tyria and claim the land for themselves, and then left when things got tough. (I know this isn’t exactly true). “It was Balthazar who urged humanity to engage the other races in battle and claim the world for themselves, believing the other races would fall easily.” So invaders from another world come and try to wipe out all opposition, but they fail and instead claim and settle in the lands they have conquered and you expect the native races of this world to not hold a grudge, hmmm.

Not our fault the gods dumped us here. For all the we know the gods were aliens who kidnapped us from earth and dumped us on Tyria as some sort of wicked experiment. And because they were so advanced they might seem as gods to us.

In any case, we do not know anything about the origins of humanity. All we know is that they came from somewhere else.

So the confusion and disorientation, as well as possible memory loss led you to take up weapons and massacre all native species…until you could kill them no more (“in all honesty my sword arm was getting tired”). shame on you (for defending this kind of behavior)

So you put words in my mouth and ask me to justify them?

Nice try.

Humans wage war for the same reasons other races wage wars. The one thing I hate about GW2 is that humans are suddenly portrayed as the big badguys and every other race is a victim of their cruelty.

please…

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Infamous Darkness.3284:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Infamous Darkness.3284:

CHIPS.6018:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Humans are good at Scorched Earth tactics. If we can’t have our land, no one can! If we go down, we’ll take you with us!

If all humans are Margonites and Abaddon is fighting ahead of us, we won’t need to scorch earth. Charrs are the ones that will be scorching earth.

Even elder dragons will tremble in fear when they see us.

So similar to how Balthazar commanded the humans to essentially commit genocide on all the races of tyria and claim the land for themselves, and then left when things got tough. (I know this isn’t exactly true). “It was Balthazar who urged humanity to engage the other races in battle and claim the world for themselves, believing the other races would fall easily.” So invaders from another world come and try to wipe out all opposition, but they fail and instead claim and settle in the lands they have conquered and you expect the native races of this world to not hold a grudge, hmmm.

Not our fault the gods dumped us here. For all the we know the gods were aliens who kidnapped us from earth and dumped us on Tyria as some sort of wicked experiment. And because they were so advanced they might seem as gods to us.

In any case, we do not know anything about the origins of humanity. All we know is that they came from somewhere else.

So the confusion and disorientation, as well as possible memory loss led you to take up weapons and massacre all native species…until you could kill them no more (“in all honesty my sword arm was getting tired”). shame on you (for defending this kind of behavior)

So you put words in my mouth and ask me to justify them?

Nice try.

Humans wage war for the same reasons other races wage wars. The one thing I hate about GW2 is that humans are suddenly portrayed as the big badguys and every other race is a victim of their cruelty.

please…

Of course humans are at the top of the food chain. We’re humans, we have a vested interest. It’s the lowest common denominator, not everyone cares about plant people, or beast men, or gremlins.

Narcemus.1348:

actually I think a pretty perfect example of this exists in history of the real world, which would be the European advance into the Americas, some historians estimate that up to 90% of the native American tribes were killed off by European germs (diseases that Europeans had built up and immunity to, these diseases are generally thought to have come from the domesticate animals of Europe) If you are interested in this here is a good book: Guns, Germs, and Steel

It is a good analogy, minus the complete and utter destruction of the ecosystem.[/quote]Pretty much. The Europeans didn’t destroy the American ecosystem that the natives relied on to the extent that the Searing did, but on the other hand, there was a large technological gap between the Europeans and the native Americans, while the Charr and Ascalonians were roughly on par (in fact, Searing cauldrons excepted, the Ascalonians were probably more advanced magically and technologically at the time, although the charr had more advanced animal husbandry).

Narcemus.1348:

Infamous Darkness.3284:

draxynnic.3719:

Yeah, I’m sensing a bit of charr propaganda here…

The effect of the Searing really cannot be overstated. Pyre probably said it best with his comment of “You can rebuild Ascalon… when you can eat ash and sleep in flame”.

The breaching of the Great Wall was actually a relatively minor effect of the Searing – as demonstrated by how Ascalon was still able to use it as an effective defense during the time of Prophecies. What the Searing did, however, was kill at least half of Ascalon’s population, both military and civilian, as well as all or most of their means of producing the resources needed to carry out a war. Now, the charr lost an army in the Cataclysm, but their homeland and civilian population was pretty much untouched.

It’s hard to come up with a historical analogy for just how one-sided that war was when you think about it. The best I can think of is if the US had nuked not just Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but had decided from the outset to nuke every major city and piece of farmland in Japan and then left, and then after what was left of the Japanese had crawled out from their ruins and shelters and started attempting to rebuild, Communist China had invaded.

It’s a miracle that Ascalon held out for the generation that it did, particularly when that xenophobic moron Adelbern refused any assistance from potential allies. With that record of resilience, it’s plausible that if Adelbern had been killed in the Searing and replaced with someone like Barradin or Rurik with their sanity intact and without an overwhelming prejudice against the other human kingdoms, it’s possible that the front line would have still been at the Wall, not in the Fields of Ruin.

actually I think a pretty perfect example of this exists in history of the real world, which would be the European advance into the Americas, some historians estimate that up to 90% of the native American tribes were killed off by European germs (diseases that Europeans had built up and immunity to, these diseases are generally thought to have come from the domesticate animals of Europe) If you are interested in this here is a good book: Guns, Germs, and Steel

It is a good analogy, minus the complete and utter destruction of the ecosystem.

except it does still work, as when 90% of you food producing population (farmers and gatherers) or all in some cases it would quickly eliminate tribes who could no longer provide food for their citizens or their “armies” also utter destruction of an ecosystem hmm, http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/multimedia/dynamic/00267/P37_Train_267932k.jpg almost whipping out a major source of food and tools from the native population while whipping out several other indigenous species sounds so different from what you are describing. http://marinebio.org/oceans/conservation/moyle/ch2-2.asp

@ draxynnic yes I understand that the earth wasn’t completely destroyed, but much of the ecosystem was not to mention that once these tribes were defeated they were moved to land with low resources, often without things that their culture used to rely so heavily on (plains Indian tribes and buffalo).

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Infamous Darkness.3284:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Infamous Darkness.3284:

CHIPS.6018:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Humans are good at Scorched Earth tactics. If we can’t have our land, no one can! If we go down, we’ll take you with us!

If all humans are Margonites and Abaddon is fighting ahead of us, we won’t need to scorch earth. Charrs are the ones that will be scorching earth.

Even elder dragons will tremble in fear when they see us.

So similar to how Balthazar commanded the humans to essentially commit genocide on all the races of tyria and claim the land for themselves, and then left when things got tough. (I know this isn’t exactly true). “It was Balthazar who urged humanity to engage the other races in battle and claim the world for themselves, believing the other races would fall easily.” So invaders from another world come and try to wipe out all opposition, but they fail and instead claim and settle in the lands they have conquered and you expect the native races of this world to not hold a grudge, hmmm.

Not our fault the gods dumped us here. For all the we know the gods were aliens who kidnapped us from earth and dumped us on Tyria as some sort of wicked experiment. And because they were so advanced they might seem as gods to us.

In any case, we do not know anything about the origins of humanity. All we know is that they came from somewhere else.

So the confusion and disorientation, as well as possible memory loss led you to take up weapons and massacre all native species…until you could kill them no more (“in all honesty my sword arm was getting tired”). shame on you (for defending this kind of behavior)

So you put words in my mouth and ask me to justify them?

Nice try.

Humans wage war for the same reasons other races wage wars. The one thing I hate about GW2 is that humans are suddenly portrayed as the big badguys and every other race is a victim of their cruelty.

please…

you’re right it’s not humans fault that their gods dumped them here, but it is their fault for going and massacring an unsuspecting world they just arrived on. I never asked you to justify the actions of the humans, I just chastised you for defending their actions. Also unless invaders are coming in as a liberating force I don’t think they are generally considered to be “good”, and as the humans were only liberating the resources from the local inhabitants I don’t believe this counts. This is not to say other races are completely innocent either.

Humans have been given a raw deal by the Lore writers of GW2 overall. They have been placed into a position they cannot recover from. Even their current holdings are far from secure – even around Divinity’s Reach.

Even there its citizens do not have a sense of security. In fact most are scared on some level. For the GW story to advance to the future many plot lines need heavy revision and in many cases reversed (also view my previous post – in the Lore section). The Centaurs for example should be re-cast as much weaker in numbers and level of organisation – thus giving actual and real confidence to players that humans will exist into beyond the events of GW2. And in Ascalon the people of Ebonhawke need to gain the ability to be self-sufficient and to pay respect to Gwen Thackeray and the men and women fort alongside her.

This is because if it becomes too obvious that humans are heading for extinction then there will be no interest in the game since there will not be a human race to speak of – just a few individuals scattered throughout Tyria.

PS: Its already obvious to all fans of GW Lore.

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

Humans have been given a raw deal by the Lore writers of GW2 overall. They have been placed into a position they cannot recover from. Even their current holdings are far from secure – even around Divinity’s Reach.

Even there its citizens do not have a sense of security. In fact most are scared on some level. For the GW story to advance to the future many plot lines need heavy revision and in many cases reversed (also view my previous post – in the Lore section). The Centaurs for example should be re-cast as much weaker in numbers and level of organisation – thus giving actual and real confidence to players that humans will exist into beyond the events of GW2. And in Ascalon the people of Ebonhawke need to gain the ability to be self-sufficient and to pay respect to Gwen Thackeray and the men and women fort alongside her.

This is because if it becomes too obvious that humans are heading for extinction then there will be no interest in the game since there will not be a human race to speak of – just a few individuals scattered throughout Tyria.

PS: Its already obvious to all fans of GW Lore.

The devs will never let the human race go extinct, it’s too populair for that. The majority of the playerbase plays the human race (this is a fact).

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

Humans have been given a raw deal by the Lore writers of GW2 overall. They have been placed into a position they cannot recover from. Even their current holdings are far from secure – even around Divinity’s Reach.

Even there its citizens do not have a sense of security. In fact most are scared on some level. For the GW story to advance to the future many plot lines need heavy revision and in many cases reversed (also view my previous post – in the Lore section). The Centaurs for example should be re-cast as much weaker in numbers and level of organisation – thus giving actual and real confidence to players that humans will exist into beyond the events of GW2. And in Ascalon the people of Ebonhawke need to gain the ability to be self-sufficient and to pay respect to Gwen Thackeray and the men and women fort alongside her.

This is because if it becomes too obvious that humans are heading for extinction then there will be no interest in the game since there will not be a human race to speak of – just a few individuals scattered throughout Tyria.

PS: Its already obvious to all fans of GW Lore.

The devs will never let the human race go extinct, it’s too populair for that. The majority of the playerbase plays the human race (this is a fact).

agreed not to mention there are still two other expansions (continent like areas where we know humans exists), probably thriving with still a large population in cantha, and there are still humans that exist in elona (even if they are under joko’s rule I assume at some point we will free them).

There was 3 vs 1 at ascalon atm. all 3 legeions vs one of the three human countries and charr JUST managed to take out ascalon. and that was with nukes. imagine orr + kryta + ascalon VS Blood + ash + iron…. charr would go to underworld :P

well not really because you see before guild wars 1 (prophecies) the three human kingdoms went to war with one another weakening their kingdoms to outside forces, this is when the charr attacked they took out ascalon for the most part, then they moved on to orr where they shattered the orrian army and when attempting to enter the city vizier kilbron sacrificed his nation and took a large chunck of the charr army with him, and finally kryta was falling under the charr invasion, but was saved by saul delasio’s unseen gods (mursaat). In all three cases of the human kingdoms against the charr in GW1 times the human kingdoms lost (this being said it was 4 legions at the time but at half strength because females weren’t allowed in the charr armies). In fact the humans only managed to fight against the charr in GW1 with great magic and artifacts, in ascalon (magedaer, and stormcaller), in orr (the forbidden spell used by the vizier), and in kryta (with the aid of the mursaat and spectral agony). and in all honesty even at this point it isn’t one human nation versus three charr legions as ascalon still is receive aid, through weapons, supplies, and soldiers from kryta. So in conclusion while the human nations may have been weakened and that could’ve possible their reason for their loss in GW1 we can’t say how a fight would go between (orr, kryta, and ascalon, against ash, iron, and blood legions would go today[providing all nations were at the height of their power]).

They took one at a time. if all 3 where united at ascalon poor fluff balls

considering the distance between orr and ascalon and that the searing and cataclysm only happened one year apart from each other (Searing happened in 1070, Cataclysm in 1071) and considering that the guild wars 1 story line (prophecies) takes place one year later in 1072 (meaning that the invasion of kryta took place between 1071-early 1072), I would assume that the charr army had to divide itself into three groups for all of these events to take place in this amount of time, essentially meaning it wouldn’t have mattered if all humans fought together, cause it would also have allowed the whole charr army to fight together.

On the Native Americans being relocated: That only happened after they were defeated, no? It can’t be listed as a reason for their defeat when it happened afterwards. That said, I do consider them to be analagous – because of the technological disparity, a disparity that didn’t exist between humans and charr in GW1.

On use of artifacts: It’s a bit disingenuous to say the humans “only managed to fight against the charr in GW1 with great magic and artifacts” when it was the use of great magic and artifacts that allowed the charr to gain the upper hand in the first place. In fact, the Searing had a much greater strategic effect than all of the human artifacts combined, since the Searing hit the human infrastructure, population, and agriculture in Ascalon and the charr threatened to do the same to Orr, while all of the human artifacts were used purely defensively.

On the charr battle strategy: They sent a diversionary force to Kryta (which seemed to have contained no genuine Searing Cauldrons), but the army that went to Orr was the same one that had gone through Ascalon. Which is largely the reason why Ascalon did survive as long as it did – because those forces got destroyed. Even without mursaat intervention, it seems that the charr didn’t actually make much headway into Kryta – the situation there got as bad as it did basically because the Krytan leaders panicked, probably because they thought that Kryta was going to be Seared as Ascalon was.

Regarding the effect of the Guild Wars – if you read about what went on there, it’s quite clear that they weakened the human nations significantly, particularly from a military perspective. One of the things that’s specifically mentioned is that the Ascalonian and Krytan guilds deliberately targeted the military and magical academies of the other nation – which means that over that time, a lot of the magical potential among the populations of those nations was stamped out before it had a chance to be trained.

I don’t honestly believe that there would have been any happy end in a straight up war between a united charr legions and a united human kingdoms. IMO they were built so close to each other in terms of power that to ever get ahead one had to take advantage of some aspect of the other. For example, humanity only got as far ahead as it did because of the death of the Khan Ur and the following civil war amongst the charr. Similarly, should humanity have been better united against the initial fight from the Searing, I do not believe the charr success would have been as great as it was. In the end, charr vs humanity would have lead to both sides being practically wiped out, and whoever the victor, they would not have had much to celebrate.

I think there are some critical facts of Lore that most seem to be missing in regards to the Histories of the two races between the events of the Forefire and the events of GW2. Firstly humanity both in Krtya and in Ebonhawke in Ascalon have come together despite their repective leaderships. Both Queen Jennah(Krytan) and Commander Samuelsson (Ascalon) have a workable alliance.

This cannot be said for the Charr. Not entirely. The Flame Legion now works against the other three. Indeed the Flame Legion is now in an alliance with the Dredge the so called “The Molten Alliance”.

This alliance is also of much concern for the Norn and the Kodan.

Eh, I’m not sure that’s a fair comparison. Kryta and Ebonhawke may be allied, but Kryta is deeply divided among itself in ways that none of the charr legions are. Furthermore, the relationship between Kryta and Ebonhawke is hardly one of equals – Ebonhawke is now effectively dependent on Kryta and is a Krytan protectorate, and may not have formed that alliance if their backs weren’t literally against the wall – while the Iron, Ash and Blood legions do have a long-standing alliance where none of the three is clearly in a superior position to the others.

(In the broader picture, it does seem as if the fundamental difference is that humans are better at sticking together when times are bad but fight over the spoils when they’re ascendant, while charr seem more likely to stick together when they’re on top, but fight over the blame when they get taken down a few pegs.)

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

I think there are some critical facts of Lore that most seem to be missing in regards to the Histories of the two races between the events of the Forefire and the events of GW2. Firstly humanity both in Krtya and in Ebonhawke in Ascalon have come together despite their repective leaderships. Both Queen Jennah(Krytan) and Commander Samuelsson (Ascalon) have a workable alliance.

This cannot be said for the Charr. Not entirely. The Flame Legion now works against the other three. Indeed the Flame Legion is now in an alliance with the Dredge the so called “The Molten Alliance”.

This alliance is also of much concern for the Norn and the Kodan.

Unfortunately, it is pretty much guaranteed that Minister Caudecus is on the edge of revolting against Queen Jennah. A coup d’état and civil war is just around the corner. (And this is why there is zero need for Scarlet. There are interesting lore everywhere for story without introducing a new villain.)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Minister_Caudecus

“With his experience and popularity, Caudecus has emerged as a rival of Queen Jennah, whose egalitarian rule, truce with the charr, and reign during years of battle have eroded her support among the nobility. He is also rumored to have dealings with bandits.”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ministry

“When Jennah’s father died, they ruled Divinity’s Reach in her stead as she was too young to ascend the throne immediately. Because of this, many ministers have become accustomed to ruling Kryta and do not wish to relinquish their former control, causing the rivalry between Lord Caudecus and Queen Jennah.”