Guild Wars 2

Now hold your centaurs before you say “Duh yes!”, and read what I have to say:

Biologists do not consider viruses to be living creatures. The primary reason for this is that as a population, viruses cannot reproduce on their own. They must use a host cell to reproduce their genetic structure and create more. Do not confuse this with parasitism. While viruses can be considered parasites, we have parasites that are able to reproduce on their own as a population (Same species.). A simple quick google search will confirm what I have laid out so far. For example: http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=3316

As stated in the article I have linked, viruses do not have the biological machinery to reproduce, and as such they are not considered living by many biologists.

If we applied this biological principle, could we say that sylvari are not living? If you took a group of sylvari, as such a population, they would not be able to reproduce on their own. The reproduce through the Pale Tree, as viruses produce through cells they hijack. Sylvari actually have less to do with reproduction than viruses do, as a virus can technically still reproduce by hijacking a cell, while Sylvari play no role at all in creating other sylvari.

Based off of this could we conclude that sylvari (and other dragon minions, such as destroyers.) are not living? My guild got into it with two opposing sides, and I would like to open this up to further debate. Please cite sources when possible to keep this on the scientific side of things.

Also I would like you to keep in mind this about if sylvari are considered alive according to this principle, not what guidelines can make something be considered alive.

There is no fully recognized definition of life in the scientific community. There are certain guidelines that are used to decide if something is alive or not, but it isn’t as clear cut as you make it sound. There is still some debate as to whether or not viruses should be considered living things.

http://serc.carleton.edu/microbelife/yellowstone/viruslive.html

So the idea that they NEED to reproduce to be considered “alive” only works if you’re using a very narrow definition of what life is. Sylvari are organic, are born and grown, have a metabolism they need to update, and are sentient.

In addition, while the Sylvari themselves cannot reproduce their species DOES reproduce. The Pale Tree produces Sylvari through a form of asexual reproduction. The Sylvari themselves don’t have a biological need to reproduce because the Pale Tree does that for them, and since the Pale Tree came from a seed we can presume that the Pale Tree is capable of making more Pale Trees in a similar way. She just hasn’t so far.

So the species known as Sylvari have two… Let’s say “Sub-Species” even though that isn’t a correct term. I don’t believe there is a correct term simply because no life on Earth is close enough to this form of life. There is the Pale Tree herself that is the primary organism that is stationary and handles all the reproduction. In order to defend itself and spread it’s influence over a wider area the Pale Tree uses a secondary form of reproduction to create the Sylvari who themselves cannot reproduce but serve a vital role in the species’ survival none the less.

If you look at the Sylvari as an extension of the Pale Tree rather than their own separate organisms it isn’t hard to justify their lack of reproductive organs. The Pale Tree is the reproductive organ and the Sylvari are the hands.

It’s very similar to certain species of ant in which only the queen can produce fertilized eggs that can create other females. If the queen dies the worker ants can still reproduce, but as they can only make male ants they cannot sustain a population on their own. Only in this case the workers can’t reproduce at all, only the queen.

Most mules are sterile, does that make them not alive?

So the species known as Sylvari have two… Let’s say “Sub-Species” even though that isn’t a correct term. I don’t believe there is a correct term simply because no life on Earth is close enough to this form of life.

There is a term, its simply called “morphs” (forma). Same genotype with different phenotypes. You have it for example with some cnidaria (jellyfishs), some become some kind of plantlike structure which produces another form with same genes, the medusae, the ones that swim around.

Being not able to reproduce is just one of many factors why viruses aren’t categorized as living, I don’t know why the guy in your source puts so much emphasis on it. Thats probably even the least convincing argument.

They are just husks with nucleidic acid and some polypeptids in it and some surfaceproteins to bind on and open cellsurfaces. They don’t think/react to their enviroment due to their lack of sensormechanisms, they don’t move on their own, they have no own metabolism, they do nothing what fits in any definition of living being, so they are not considered as one, except you lower your standards of whats living pretty much.

Lets see what wikipedia says to the defining features of life:
1. Homeostasis: Regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state; for example, sweating to reduce temperature.
—> Viruses: nope, Sylvari: check
2. Organization: Being structurally composed of one or more cells.
—> Viruses: hardly, Sylvari: check
3. Metabolism: Transformation of energy by converting chemicals and energy into cellular components (anabolism) and decomposing organic matter (catabolism).
—> Viruses: nope, Sylvari: check
4. Growth
—> Viruses: nope, Sylvari: check
5. Adaptation: The ability to change over time in response to the environment.
—> Viruses: for their kind, yes due natural selection, for the individual, nope, Sylvari: check
6. Response to stimuli
—> Viruses: nope, Sylvari: check
7. Reproduction: The ability to produce new individual organisms.
—> Viruses: with limitations, Sylvari: nope.

Your see, for Sylvari its something completely different. You cannot just strip the status of “living” from beings based on only one factor. Nature is very complex and creates a lot of beings that lack in some or another feature you would associate with a living being, because not everything needs everything to contribute to the survival of their kind. For example angiosperms (most ‘higher’ plants) put a separate second deformed but living embryo in every seed, which then grows just to get absorbed (7.) for nutrients later, when the main-embryo begins to grow. Or some parasites lose their metabolism (3.) almost entirely, because they just take everything from their host. Or some beings which had mobile ancestors lose their ability to move, because they don’t need to move anymore. Or some endosymbiotic bacteria lose almost their cellsurface (2.), because the plant creates a save capsule for them. Et cetera et cetera.

A lot of insects and plants are incapable of reproduction however most folks would very much consider a colony of bees and ants to be alive despite how only a handful of them are capable of reproduction.

So yes, sylvari are alive. So, I would argue, are risen, icebrood, mordrem, branded, destroyers, and whatever the DSD creates. Despite not being of flesh and blood, I would consider them to be alive.

Though they’d only count for half of the list Amraston gave: Organization, Metabolism (though not standard such), adaptation, and response to stimuli.

@Amraston

Ah, morphs. Thanks! Biology is a hobby of mine and I always enjoy learning new aspects of it.

So yes, the Sylvari should definitely be considered living beings because while the Sylvari phenotype itself doesn’t reproduce it is but one of two morphs for the species as a whole, the other of which does reproduce. Both form a symbiotic relationship within their own species.

You could argue that the Sylvari being capable of independent thought and even rebellion is a weakness in the species, but that is where the “Fantasy” part of fantasy race comes in.

Well, Sylvari on their own are not able to reproduce.
However they come from the great tree, which is their form of reproduction.

While it is not interior (for now, I bet they could create some with reproductive “organs” ), they are reproducing to a degree.
Not in the way we are thinking about it.

i mean, reproducing in the bilogy sense usually means: “copy (some don`t need a partner) or recombination of DNA”. So combination of data/information.

Sylvari are connected to the dream, thus transfering their “data”, which then to some degree is applied to the new young Sylvari (They are thought in the dream, which is regulated by the pale tree).