Guild Wars 2

So I was going through the new area of the Silverwastes and I thought the water at your feet thing was a graphical bug. In past releases I had wondered about the state of Maguuma and the suggestion that Mordremoth creates jungle, not desert. Why is Maguuma drying up?

Here is the line about the Maguuma Jungle from the GW1:

The higher elevations are mostly devoid of water. Only the largest and hardiest of plants can live here. But down farther, closer to the water table, the Maguuma grows thick. The vegetation can become so dense that there are areas of the jungle floor that have never been touched by the sun’s light. — The Guild Wars Manuscripts

So the water table is down low, it may have just been partially buried by sands.

I forget where it came from, but years back the theory that Maguuma Jungle became the Maguuma wastes because of Mordremoth was born. Basically it said Mordremoth leeched all the magic from the region and killed off the plants. In Camp Resolve an NPC recognises this theory (as fan theories are in game – Priory Scholars) but she challenges it.

Player: What is this place?
Tactician Yivva: The Silverwastes: a haggard and treacherous desert. But we think it might once been a great forest.
Player: What happened to it?
Tactician Yivva: Some of the Priory scholars believe Mordremoth has leeched this land of its magic, leaving it in this state.
Player: And you disagree?
Tactician Yivva: I do. Mordremoth’s corruption sprouts jungle, not desert. I suspect something else ruined this place.

To me this was a hint to rethink the reason why Maguuma dried up. The old theory is wrong and the truth is going to be revealed soon. I was stuck thinking about that until this release when I saw the hylek in the Far Silverwastes, a giant ship in the middle of a desert and the water footprints “graphical bug” (notice the footprints only “bug” on certain levels of terrain and not all terrain?).

In the Far Silverwastes there are a group of hylek roaming around and in one place they are lieing on the ground looking like they have heat stroke or something. Frogs in real life are amphibious and while some of them are well suited to desert climates, many frogs prefer moist climates. Why are the hylek living in the Maguuma Wastes? This reminded me of Nochtli back in Dry Top.

She tells a story that I originally dismissed as a cool piece of world building, a creation story. In the real world her story mimics creation myths told by primitive cultures all around the world to explain what humans couldn’t yet explain (without science). But this is Tyria, where magic exists and myths are real. What if Nochtli’s story is actually true but it’s been so long since it last happened people think it’s a myth?

Player: Tell me one of your stories.
Nochtli: Very well. In old times, there was a tribe in a valley with only one source of water, a clear, sweet stream that ran by their village. One day that stream began to run dry and the tribe grew worried.
They sent their greatest warrior upstream to find what had happened, and after three days she found a monster who had grown greedy and had drunk all the water for itself.
The warrior explained the plight of her thirsty people and the greedy monster laughed a mighty croak and pushed her into the mud with its bloated belly. This angered the proud warrior very much.
In her great anger, the warrior split the monster’s belly open, so that all the waters rushed forth in a flood that filled the valley, washing the warrior and her tribe away to the sea.
Player: Wait, everyone died? What kind of story is that?
Nochtli: The point of this silly old tale is that a rash decision made out of pride is no better than a selfish decision made out of greed, and both will lead to ruin.

The hylek lived in the Maguuma Jungle before it became the wastes. The water table used to be higher but a giant creature like the one in Nochtli’s story is consuming all the water. In the Silver Wastes during the Breach event, underneath each fort is a huge monster. It’s alive. You are fighting inside of a creature. A creature that large would need water. If it’s a minion of Mordremoth, it might be consuming the water because the water of Maguuma contains some of the magic from a bloodstone. What if the Living Story is leading towards a climax where we kill the creature causing the Breach and the end result is a large amount of water returns to the Maguuma Wastes?

Maybe the wet footprints is a bug (we aren’t supposed to see them yet) but they are to indicate the water table rises in the near future. They don’t occur everywhere, just certain places that might be wet after we slay Nochtli’s monster that is consuming the water.

It could explain why Mordremoth’s reach went so far so quickly – a champion plant that is situated near a magical source of water – miracle grow for Mordremoth’s minions. Fueled by the Maguuma Bloodstone’s water, the vines were able to travel to far reaches of Tyria. Killing the champion and cutting off access to the Fount of Maguuma could be a nice conclusion to season 2 to stop the immediate threat of Mordremoth without requiring us to kill the dragon right away.

tl;dr The Maguuma Jungle became the Maguuma wastes because a champion of Mordremoth is feeding on the Fount of Maguuma (magically enchanted water) which contains the magic of one of the five Bloodstones. After slaying the champion, the water table of Maguuma will rise and parts of the world will become fertile again. Nochtli was foreshadowing the finale of Season 2.

I suspect those giant (and I mean GIGANTIC) caverns underground are in fact those water tables that have dried up – at the very bottom in some places you can find pools of water.

The more common Elder Dragon theory for the maguuma drying up was Primordus’ activity, not Mordremoth. There’s basically three versions though – the canonical theory of scholars which was “Elder Dragons did it”; the theory began by Thalador that “Primordus did it”; and then a position I suggested was that the water tables did not dry up, but lost their magic from the Bloodstones (due to not ED tampering, but White Mantle/Mursaat/simple age). “Mordremoth did it” is 110% in-game speculation alone, or at least was never presented in long-standing view on the forums here.

I do think the water splashing is a bug. It seems that Anet’s been fooling with the water level of the zone, trying to get it to read multiple levels rather than the standard across many games of the water level being the same heigh across the zone/level (sometimes it can move, often it cannot). But strangely, in the Silverwastes, they’re at different levels – the pools in the deep caverns are far lower than the drake pool in Northern Silverwastes.

I think the existence of the hylek in the Far Silverwastes (I keep typing Far Shiverpeaks >.> – could Anet be any more unimaginative with their zone names?) is due to the fact that the so-called “Far Silverwastes” was in fact the Mamnoon Lagoon (which was the biggest surface water in the Maguuma – I’m shocked that it’s fully dried up despite there being water on the unexplored map! I am shocked and sad!). It may be more that the area is an ancestral land for them. Those “passed out” hylek actually have dialogue that they are not part of the same tribe as those that are wandering about (the passed out hylek are blue; the others are red – according to the blue hylek, the red claim to be chosen by the Sun, which may mean they’ve found a way to survive in harsh heat/lack of water).

The hylek explorer also mentioned tribes having once been in the Maguuma Jungle. This seems to be the tribes we now see, further explaining why these hylek are here – this is their ancestral land.

Nochtli’s story has been seen to be a metaphor for the death of the Elder Dragons – according to observations about The All, killing the dragons will leave the world out of balance, destroying it. Water is magic; beast is dragon; hero is us.

I second the interpretation of that story as an allegory for the imbalance introduced after killing Zhaitan. Remember, dragons don’t drink up all the water in the world, they drink up all the magic.

The amount of wáter needed to fill those caverns would be too large to be done in one update, and may break some parts of the jumping puzzle imo.
I think we may go back further in time and find wáter in some places of the map. That or the intention was to have wáter in these flashbacks but didn’t work.

If there is a flood however a lot of skritt may die, although it seems they are preparing for it xD.

I was reminded of the following book from Scarlet’s secret room:

“A History of Dry Top” by Nicholas Sanford, 1070 A.E.

Now a barren landscape, this rounded basin may have held water many millennia ago. Sand now covers everything, blowing on the wind and eroding all—rocks and inhabitants alike.

Unknown sentient beings once built fragile hillside homes high on the cliffsides. Some structures still linger but will also fall victim to the blowing sand and hot sun.

The area attracts outlaws on the run with something to hide. Or those who are unwelcome among civilized folk for one reason or another. This makes the area dangerous to travelers such as me and Yakkington.

Migrating centaur packs come though here, it seems. There is evidence that they once had refuge here. A large tree trunk, quiet out of place, could have been one of their sacred trees.

Despite appearances, this waterless area is far from lifeless, and it serves as the doorway into the Maguuma Jungle, a region of uncontrollable growth, life, and often death.

Finding that ship was a very Lost moment for me. WTF?

I don’t think the skritt are building that ship; I think they are repairing it. It seems it’s Krytan in origin (It looks a lot like the ones you see near Orr, that were capsized during Zaithan’s flood).

Well, even if they are the ones who build it. The question is how they want to get it out.

Relevant Character
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4Msn_dB23c

On the caverns.
it would be interesting to see Maps depicting an continental drift. maybe we could kitten some informations that way.
it would also be interesting to know if that is even something that applies to Tyria.

Jaken.6801:

Well, even if they are the ones who build it. The question is how they want to get it out.

They seem to have a tunnel leading toward an old ship that is wrecked off the coast to the south of Metrica Province, based on their map. Alternatively, it could be foreshadowing a flood of some sort (they will collect two of each of the shinies and place them on the ship, etc. etc.) in which case somehow going straight up seems more likely.

I did a thread about this in the Living World section of the forums.

Have you noted that the sky over Silverwastes is now all covered with stormclouds (as of this patch)?

Ah, well, so much for speculation:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-2-2014/first#post4601721

“Fixed a bug in which water splashes appeared on terrain in the Silverwastes.”

Gryphon.2875:

“Fixed a bug in which water splashes appeared on terrain in the Silverwastes.”

Yes!
I too was musing at why I had these splashes around my feet running in certain places in The Silverwastes… shame all that speculation boiled down to a glitch that got fixed with a one-line comment.

They won’t flood the caverns as it would destroy the puzzle :P

Aren’t those Arks (that’s what those big ships are) Orrian in origin? Krytans appear to use more “normal” looking ships – galleons, etc.

Harbinger, Death’s Anthem, the Ship of Sorrows minidungeon, and a few ships docked at Rata Sum use this design.

Sea of Sorrows calls Harbinger a xebec.

Gryphon.2875:

Ah, well, so much for speculation:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-2-2014/first#post4601721

“Fixed a bug in which water splashes appeared on terrain in the Silverwastes.”

But maybe the bug was that it happened earlier than it was supposed to?

lordkrall.7241:

But maybe the bug was that it happened earlier than it was supposed to?

That’s what I’m hoping, but I’m not crossing my fingers though. I doubt that Mordy could summon rain clouds or anything, since he specializes in plants and the mind, but I wouldn’t put it past him to try and flood an area somehow to more easily corrupt/terraform it into a jungle.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Harbinger, Death’s Anthem, the Ship of Sorrows minidungeon, and a few ships docked at Rata Sum use this design.

Sea of Sorrows calls Harbinger a xebec.

Sea of Sorrows also describes Harbinger, and xebecs in general, as clippers- fast, narrow boats with little room for cargo and large masts. That’s… about the opposite of the arc models we see in game.

Judging from all the water splashes our character are making in new Silverwastes region by running through the dry desert…. I would agree!

My question is, how did those ships even get there? There is no water route there now, so the ships were not sailed by Krytans any time in recent history, and even in the time of Guild Wars 1 and before, there were absolutely no rivers long, deep, or straight enough to sail a sea-faring vessel that far into the heart of the jungle. Not to mention, overhanging jungle vegetation would prevent any such voyages even if the rivers at some point just magically swelled to the size of large lakes to allow large boats through.
Then there’s the fact that they’re underground, where the water table likey used to be. Those caves would have been submerged, and I don’t think even the best Krytan ships could sail under water unless something was terribly wrong. (The only submersible vessel I know of is a Charr designed submarine sitting near a heart event)

So, its apparent the ships were moved (fairly recently, as they’re probably modern/semi-modern Krytan ships) to the location after the caverns were discovered. But why? Did the Skritt just not have anything better to do one Saturday? That’s a hell of a distance to drag a boat.

They’re building the boat, actually.

Why? Are the Skritt expecting the water to return?

Yes… ish. They’re trying to fill the caverns, at any rate. The goal of the jump puzzle is to retrieve the object they’re using to make it rain underground.

Guess there aren’t enough skritt there to know they’re building the thing upside down. Or that they’ll need a LOT of dowsing rods.
Also, what can we infer about the billboard translation (another thread on this forum https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Silverwastes-Skritt-Billboard-Translation/first#post4598840)
It indicated an “old boat” and a “new boat”.

Remember that joke after Dry Top was released, asking if we will next go to Wet Bottom? I think we have the answer.

I still doubt they’re building it. And if they are, why is it Krytan in design?

…unless it’s a matter of using “old” assets.

Rhaegar.1203:

I still doubt they’re building it. And if they are, why is it Krytan in design?

…unless it’s a matter of using “old” assets.

Considering there’s a grand total of three non-undead ship models, two of which are used liberally in Orr, Rata Sum, Lion’s Arch, and certain stranger places (Nonmoa Lake, for instance)… I think that’s pretty well likely.

Shiren.9532:

So I was going through the new area of the Silverwastes and I thought the water at your feet thing was a graphical bug. In past releases I had wondered about the state of Maguuma and the suggestion that Mordremoth creates jungle, not desert. Why is Maguuma drying up?

Here is the line about the Maguuma Jungle from the GW1:

The higher elevations are mostly devoid of water. Only the largest and hardiest of plants can live here. But down farther, closer to the water table, the Maguuma grows thick. The vegetation can become so dense that there are areas of the jungle floor that have never been touched by the sun’s light. — The Guild Wars Manuscripts

So the water table is down low, it may have just been partially buried by sands.

I forget where it came from, but years back the theory that Maguuma Jungle became the Maguuma wastes because of Mordremoth was born. Basically it said Mordremoth leeched all the magic from the region and killed off the plants. In Camp Resolve an NPC recognises this theory (as fan theories are in game – Priory Scholars) but she challenges it.

Player: What is this place?
Tactician Yivva: The Silverwastes: a haggard and treacherous desert. But we think it might once been a great forest.
Player: What happened to it?
Tactician Yivva: Some of the Priory scholars believe Mordremoth has leeched this land of its magic, leaving it in this state.
Player: And you disagree?
Tactician Yivva: I do. Mordremoth’s corruption sprouts jungle, not desert. I suspect something else ruined this place.

To me this was a hint to rethink the reason why Maguuma dried up. The old theory is wrong and the truth is going to be revealed soon. I was stuck thinking about that until this release when I saw the hylek in the Far Silverwastes, a giant ship in the middle of a desert and the water footprints “graphical bug” (notice the footprints only “bug” on certain levels of terrain and not all terrain?).

My idea for this is might be quite complicated and hit few topics on forum…

So, state of Magumma is not done by Dragons as everyone know they are magic eaters not water drinkers (ofc if that wasn’t magic water all over the jungle)
I came out wifh idea of Malyck Tree which is suppost to be somewhere deeper in Magumma, w/o Dream and valors of Grove, acting a bit like parasite to terrain?

Sylvari aint minions of dragons, but as ‘plant’ type humanoids that are easy to be corrupted by Jungle Dragon? At start of sylvari character we r fighting Tree type dragon? Could it be ‘fighting the personal corruption’? (But is quite out of chronology) In other hand Dragons might be a lil bit active all the time, enought to corrupt dream in this case…

And about Caithe and her secret? Wynne dead? How ppl even know about it? My idea for this, she is not dead, but living on the other side of cave wifhin sylvaries from other Tree, and secret is about that, Caith let her go, lying to Faolin… or some, somehow I cant accept Wynne to be dead as it’s just too easy :- > Which also explains why Wynne is not around us in Tyria we know in GW2, she throu away dream but didnt accept nightmare … becoming ‘free’.

Plus whats about egg, as its Glint ‘kid’, and as young eventual Dragon it wont be able to fight Elders as it will be too weak, but maybe it will be strong enought to undo other Dragon corruption(Krait orb from Zhaitan story), in which other Sylvarie Tree felt down, as its close to Mordie.
According to that Caithe run away behind that doors(cave) we saw in the end of last episode, wifh egg too actually heal other Tree? :- )

A bit off topic but had to place all in 1 post w/o making new topic :- )

Im kinda leading towards the previously mentioned idea of a magically infused water source (river passing through a ley line maybe?) being blocked by something. Maybe by whatever creature is generating THE FREAKING CREEPY PULSATING TENTACLES HEADING TOWARDS OUR MAIN BASE IN THE SILVERWASTES (takes a deep breath).

Anyway id be willing to bet rapid growth of a plant of that size would take not only a large amount of water but also a large amount of magic. Magically infused river(s) takes both and runs with it. We know this location has pretty extreme magical significance. Wouldn’t suprise me at all if this is the case.

But still. This is best explanation I can think of for the maguuma wastes drying up. Giant plant dragon champion that makes the tower of nightmare look like a toothpick. And its making is pulsating way towards our base.

Is this like a nod to Pirates of the Caribbean with the Skritt building their ship upside down to pass into this other dimension??

I’m doubtful of that. More likely skritt just being skritt.

I think they have only just enough Skritt living there to read the blueprints and organize the construction, but not enough to realize the ship is meant to be flipped over.

I personally think that the giant vines aswell as the breach itself that we see in the Silverwastes are not part of the champion, but rather Mordremoth itself. It was hinted quite early on that the vines that attacked Concordia etc were actually Mordremoth himself and not random corruption. Perhaps his growth simply went unnoticed for a long time and in doing so caused the jungle to dry up around these regions. Regardless of whether dragons want magic, growing a giant plant like that requires a giant amount of water aswell. Although down at the caves you can see those ruins constructed fairly deep, as if the water was high, but never all the way to the top in the past.

If you look at the translation of the Skritt board, they talk about the water backlog, and burning down the bottleneck.

What are they going to burn down? Is there something holding the water back?

If you do the jumping puzzle, you find out that the “storm wizard” (who is the skritt standing in the grassy part of the ‘top’ side of the boat) fakes the dowsing rod’s thievery because she wants to work on the ship forever. If you take the rod at the end of the puzzle and hand it to her on the ship, she’ll “cast” a water spell and then claim the water’s backlogged.

This is all a ploy by that one sneaky smart skritt so that the skritt work on the boat forever. She has the rod “stolen” by a ‘legendary skritt thief’ but has it occasionally returned to her by adventurers, and when it’s returned to her she ‘uses’ it but claims the water is backlogged before it gets stolen again – all a ploy to make it look like she’s serious about launching the ship.

Shadelang.3012:

~Snip~
Maybe by whatever creature is generating THE FREAKING CREEPY PULSATING TENTACLES HEADING TOWARDS OUR MAIN BASE IN THE SILVERWASTES (takes a deep breath).

~Snip~

You know those are emanating from the giant flower like plant that is at the end of the 3 paths in the west of the Silverwastes, right?

Yep. Im well aware of where there from. I see no reason for the giant flower like plant to not grow limbs at start ripping peoples heads off though. I mean look at the thrashers.

I don’t know about you, but the first thing I thought of when i saw that ship hanging there upside down was the Poseidon adventure!
Odd thing, in a pen in the hold (top) of the ship there are WHITE chickens. Theseare the first alternate coloured chickens I have seen in GW2, so I wonder if the ship originated on another continent and these animals are maybe decended from the original cargo?

Shadelang.3012:

Yep. Im well aware of where there from. I see no reason for the giant flower like plant to not grow limbs at start ripping peoples heads off though. I mean look at the thrashers.

It’s what we get for making so many Little Shop of Horrors jokes during the first half of the season. We get to fight Audrey II now!

It would actually be a pretty epic fight. Imagine fighting a plant monster the size of the black citadel.

Erukk.1408:

We get to fight Audrey II now!

I would say it’s no Mean Green Mother From Outer Space, but we did have that super weird sequence thanks to Omadd’s machine.

Erukk.1408:

Shadelang.3012:

Yep. Im well aware of where there from. I see no reason for the giant flower like plant to not grow limbs at start ripping peoples heads off though. I mean look at the thrashers.

It’s what we get for making so many Little Shop of Horrors jokes during the first half of the season. We get to fight Audrey II now!

I think this is actually a bit more literal than Erukk’s joke is meant to be.

Mawdrey and Mawdrey II. Mawdrey is a purple-mist glowing Mordrem vine. Mawdrey II is a bloodstone dust consuming venus fly trap.

Vine Crawlers are the ends of those giant vines. They’re giant mouths with purple-mist glowing Mordrem vines.

Mawdrey is the infant form of the giant flower, and Mawdrey II is the cut-off Vine Crawler of Mawdrey.

So we’ll be fighting a grown up Mawdrey, I’m expecting.

Not entirely sure whether it’s true or not, but a skritt character called Veteran Rikker, found in Picaroon Scratch, has some interesting dialogue. One of his comments to the PC is “Did you know? Skritt once sailed the seas”. If it is true, then this could explain why they are so determined to build/repair that ship, or it could just be another hint at what’s to come.