Guild Wars 2

Hello everyone, i want to preface this with i’m most certainly not a lore buff or claim to have any extension knowledge of anything pertaining to GW really. This thread is truly being made to answer that question for me, because i don’t really know. I haven’t read any books, i’ve barely kept a base knowledge of what was happening in game (I play on and off, just got back into it and these questions are really aggravating me >.<) So, just keep in mind i have very limited knowledge of these subjects and am looking for answers from people who know this stuff, unlike me! I don’t want to believe that they’re just…horrifically terrible but that’s what i’ve concluded thus far. Any responses help and are appreciated!

Ok, lets get into this because i have a lot of questions! The central idea of my discussion is that the characters are all extremely one dimensional and boring and have nothing to relate to and they’re just lame in general. I think the best way to display my points will just be analysing certain characters specifically and looking for other views and perspectives that i don’t get or don’t consider

Let’s start with Logan Thackeray. He’s a human, so quite easy to analyze compared to say…A charr or a sylvari. I personally believe him be the single worst character in the entirety of Guild Wars 2. I hate him. I know there was a book that included him (Haven’t read the book) and i investigated the book and it didn’t seem to reveal any more of his character, at all. (Even so, if we’re looking at Guild Wars 2, I’d reasonably expect his relevant story to be included IN the game, but that’s another discussion)

Let’s break him down then! What’re his goals: Protect the Queen….Fight Dragon(s) sometimes….He’s a commander of the Seraph….And that’s literally it. That’s it that’s all folks!

Ok, what about his past? Well, he…dreamed of protecting the queen? Then pledged to her? Also his brother died and he took up his place with the idea of being a hero…THAT’S IT! Why is that all there is?! Now, i know i could be missing some things (The book, etc etc) but really, if you take his goals which are incredibly, immensely one dimensional, does he even act outside of those? Not to my knowledge. The downfall of Destiny’s Edge revolved around him defending the queen. He’s a champion of Divinity’s reach, again, queen. His past reveals NOTHING of his motives, morals, ideals, desires. (Other than his White Knight Chronicle) Nothing he does reveals any of that, probably because he doesn’t have any.

He’s just not a person. He’s nothing but an idea, a device, and in the personal story he just says stuff that mean nothing and have no impact on him or his views. He just exists, as a single idea portrayed as a human being. And I hate it. I really hate it. It seems to me that Guild Wars 2’s characters are all this bland in a similar vein.

For another analysis topic, let’s take Rytlock. Admittedly it’s much more difficult for me to examine because i don’t know anything of Charr politics, beliefs, anything like that. Not like a human, but regardless, he can still be examined as a being with goals and ideals, right?

Ok, well, we know he’s trying to rid the Ascalonian Ghosts of their land….He’s doing that…He wants to do that….What else does he want? Oh, i don’t know. It seems everything he’s a part of works for that. Ok, what about his past? Joined the military, climbed the ranks, is at the top of his legion. (I forget the name) Is that it? No officers above him that he spited or liked? No units or people he command he dislikes or likes? No? Ok.

I want to make it clear, i’m not trying to bash characters or their writers (Unless they deserve it >.>) I’m just giving my perspective for these characters i’m expected to give any amount investment in but just, couldn’t care less. And it’s with the hope that someone proves me wrong! I want to be wrong, i WANT for them to have depth and purpose, but in my eyes they just do not, at all! And it frustrates me.

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Ok, how about we move onto some newer characters for final analysis (Which is kind of setting myself up to look like an idiot, because i know even less about them. But that’s really ok! I’m ok to look like an idiot to redeem these characters i so desperately want to care for but just don’t. At all.)

Marjory, a character that particularly frustrates me. I want so much more for her, i really do. sigh Let’s examine her.

Ok, she’s in love with Kasmeer, a seeming prodigy of Mesmer magic, and she has weapons imbued with the spirits of the dead. Also she has an investigation agency! What? Developement? Goals? What?! Oh…The ONLY information i could find on this Agency is that it’s run by Kasmeer and herself…And it’s in the Dead End. That’s IT.

Why, why why why ;-; It makes me so sad, she could have some real devolepment and character progression with this, with just a few simple questions. Why does she have this agency? What inspired her to run it? What in her past caused her to open it? What hasn’t she closed it? What purpose does it serve in her life? What meaning does it fulfill in her?

None of those questions are answered, to my investigation. (Again, PLEASE correct me if i’m wrong.) She loves Kasmeer, Kasmeer loves her. Simple as that. She has ghost weapons. Again, no real explanation or reason or cause. It just is.

This is what frustrates me so much with the characters in this game. They don’t feel real. They feel like machines, programmed to say things and act on things that just progress whatever point they choose forward. Nothing in this game, characters included, feel planned out. When you investigate a character, you begin following the thread, and it feels like the writers are just laying threads in front of you. It should feel like the thread is leading to something! Something of importance and meaning, but it just doesn’t.

It doesn’t feel like it’s just a lack of circumstance that we don’t have explanations to these things, it just feels like the explanations don’t exist. That they’ll be created whenever it becomes important or relevant. It’s not like the writers are hiding stuff from us, it just isn’t there! And that frustrates me, it frustrates me that the characters feel like just…nothing. Just words and reactions to fit whatever situation they’re placed in, none of their past experiences or future goals have an effect on anything!

Well, that’s my 2 cents. I hope i can get some counter-analysis and ideas to either make me learn something or confirm my fears.

Eh, the characters serve the needs that they fill and are not around when they’re not needed to fill the part. Pretty much how things normally go. So, are they bad?

I’d posit it’s more the writing really is mishandling a lot of it due to various concerns. Most of it seems to be problems getting it out on time with proper polish and shine.

MrJK.2985:

Marjory, a character that particularly frustrates me. I want so much more for her, i really do. sigh Let’s examine her.

Ok, she’s in love with Kasmeer, a seeming prodigy of Mesmer magic, and she has weapons imbued with the spirits of the dead. Also she has an investigation agency! What? Developement? Goals? What?! Oh…The ONLY information i could find on this Agency is that it’s run by Kasmeer and herself…And it’s in the Dead End. That’s IT.

Why, why why why ;

The short story about Marjory reveals she founded her private investigations to resolve the case of a murdered boy, which the Ministry Guard above her rank covered up. During this short story she had an encounter with, supposedly, Mister E. However that information doesn’t really offer much more to flesh out her character.

Using your earlier posts as examples we know little about her.
Is she a patriot, quitting the Ministry Guard because of the corruption and threat posed to the Queen? Did she quit the ministry out of a sense of duty to the victim? Because the stranger she encountered managed to convince her within those brief moments? or was it simply out of spite of being prohibit in the investigation by the corruption in the Ministry? What progress, if any since she doesn’t seem to be an effective detective in my opinion, has she made towards resolving the case of the murdered boy?

IMO, the characters aren’t bad just real bland and superficial.

For game characters that ooze personality, I’d love to point to the Saints Row and Borderlands-franchises for comparison. Every single character is distinct and stands out and BL does it without cutscenes or lengthy dialogue boxes either.
And neither of them has any deep past, which however makes it part of their appeal.

GW2 on the other hand… idk, the only characters that really stand out to me are Taimi, Canach and Anise as of LS2. The writers can whip out good characters when they want. (Palawa we still love u) But for reasons, not many of them are presented as very distinct despite having the potential.

A good example of the problem is the No-Refuge Seeds of truth episode.
You play as Caithe, but the dialogue in the text boxes might as well have been your PCs. Hardly. A. Difference. Sigh.

I think both Jory and Kas has a great amount of potential. Maybe their story hasn’t been fully showcased in-game though (it has been mentioned briefly here and there, but perhaps too little at a time to make a real impression to most players) – and certainly there’s a lot they (yet) haven’t drawn out of that potential. Short versions:

Kas:
Kas was raised a noble, mother died early. Family fell in hard times, her brother Kyle was a gambler, her father died in debtor’s prison while spending everything to pay off Kyle’s debts.
After Kas’ transformation from a noble to a street rat(?), she found Jory and joined Delaqua Investigations.

Jory:
“My father isn’t nice like yours [Kasmeer’s] was” / Mother “sews dresses for a living.”
A big family of four sisters. Basically the reverse of Kas: not born with the best opportunities, but managed to create a name for herself with Delaqua Investigations. She possibly saved Kas’ during her hardship.

Though both of their stories (like most stories these days) perhaps can be described to be a little bit cliché, I think it’s very interesting to see how these two characters intertwine with eachother. The many nicknames: Marjie, Jory, Kas, (even Belinda’s nickname “Jane”) adds a lot also. Though it’s very simple, it helps me believe in these characters being real – and that belief helps me fill in their holes with my own imagined story.

Though some parts of Belinda’s death wasn’t handled as good as it could have been (mainly the return to Fort Salma), and though I personally didn’t feel any great loss when Belinda died; I really felt Jory’s loss being real. I really enjoyed the fact that a character TOTALLY drops out of the story to go back to spend time with her family.

And that happened while Mordremoth’s threat kept rising to a world-shattering level. For me, that makes Marjory human. It’s a flaw in her character that I really much appreciate. “The perfect hero” would keep on fighting for revenge.
For Marjory (her caring mother and her 3 sisters): family seems to be put above everything, even Kas.

Though they’ve tried to do the same with Rox, Braham and Taimi they don’t appeal as much to me as Kas and Jory does. But still: each of those three have very distinguished stories of their own.

Braham: his story could have been very intriguing, though personally I find the dialouge between him and Eir a bit too awkward / too stiff: I don’t really “feel it” or believe it.

Rox: interesting, but a bit too little detail there to make me properly involved. The relationship between her and Braham feels a bit rushed (maybe it’s just because of the incoherent storytelling during season 1 – there was a lot of build-up to their relationship there, but I think perhaps it was spread too much out into little pieces).

Taimi: I find her fascination for Scarlet intriguing (I liked Scarlet better through Taimi’s dialogue than I ever did during Season 1). I like the “obsessive scientist” angle, but feel that she lacks an extra dimension to make her a “real character”.
A little bit too much comic relief, and I ended up not caring for her too much at the end of Season 2.

All in all: I think they’ve made progress with ALL of their characters compared to previous storytelling. Not everything I’m happy about, but that’s just the way it is

ElysianEternity.6215:

(Palawa we still love u)

Nightfall was my favorite campaign because of characters like him. It feels like it has the highest concetration of well written and interesting characters (for an MMO atleast). Since then the quality has been declining again, though they do get some gems out once in a while; Tybalt for example.

I imagine we’ll be learning more about the characters Anet considers to be key characters in Heart of Thorns. Fingers crossed!

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Eh, the characters serve the needs that they fill and are not around when they’re not needed to fill the part. Pretty much how things normally go. So, are they bad?

I’d posit it’s more the writing really is mishandling a lot of it due to various concerns. Most of it seems to be problems getting it out on time with proper polish and shine.

I thought it was the other way around. The biconics are there despite the fact that they are not needed. Rox and Braham made sense during Flame and Frost – Rox was on a mission from Rytlock because she was trying out for his warband and she’d previously lost her own, Braham was on a mission to get back his family and friends. Every appearance after that is simply because they are “iconic” and not because they are needed. They actually replace more useful story-specific characters that could have been used.

I think the biconics were created so that DE could be lost in Maguuma/Mists while Caithe is doing her thing and the PC is on good terms with the Pact any more. They were created partly to avoid VA needs from DE but also to root the story in five NPCs instead of the Pact, who may or may not exist in the coming story and will likely be positioned differently from the PC. I suspect the PC will neither be fighting with or against the Pact for much of Heart of Thorns due to the incoming prejudice against the sylvari.

As far as the general point of the OP is concerned, I don’t want a story heavily rooted in character histories and motivations. Marjory’s motivation to fight Mordremoth due to her sister’s death is such a tedious plot point for me. I don’t care. I don’t care about Kasmeer regaining her privileged position in human society (I’d mention Braham or Rox but honestly the bulk of the story favours Marjory, Kasmeer and Taimi). I’m much more interested in the big picture and how (other) characters can be used to illustrate that.