Are we gonna use dragon's power against Mord?
That seems a bit of a jump. The Master is supposedly trying to hatch the egg, which inclines we to think we want to help for what a dragon can do, not because the egg might have a passive corruption-cleanse buff.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
That seems a bit of a jump. The Master is supposedly trying to hatch the egg, which inclines we to think we want to help for what a dragon can do, not because the egg might have a passive corruption-cleanse buff.
It’s surely going to help us fight Mord in someway. So it’s accurate to say using Kralkatorrik’s power to fight Mord.
That seems a bit of a jump. The Master is supposedly trying to hatch the egg, which inclines we to think we want to help for what a dragon can do, not because the egg might have a passive corruption-cleanse buff.
It’s surely going to help us fight Mord in someway. So it’s accurate to say using Kralkatorrik’s power to fight Mord.
That depends on whether the baby has any power from Kralkatorrik. At the moment, we don’t even know how much of Glint’s power was Kralky’s- the predilection for crystals in her dwelling and guards certainly suggests his corruption repurposed, but her oracle abilities are spoken of as entirely unique to her, and the ability to soak up and exude magic is said to be something inherent to dragons in general. Only if we employ the first of those would we be using Kralk’s power, and I don’t see what good that’d do us- we already have asuran golems, and we don’t know how complicated or lengthy building crystal fortresses might be.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
That seems a bit of a jump. The Master is supposedly trying to hatch the egg, which inclines we to think we want to help for what a dragon can do, not because the egg might have a passive corruption-cleanse buff.
It’s surely going to help us fight Mord in someway. So it’s accurate to say using Kralkatorrik’s power to fight Mord.
That depends on whether the baby has any power from Kralkatorrik. At the moment, we don’t even know how much of Glint’s power was Kralky’s- the predilection for crystals in her dwelling and guards certainly suggests his corruption repurposed, but her oracle abilities are spoken of as entirely unique to her, and the ability to soak up and exude magic is said to be something inherent to dragons in general. Only if we employ the first of those would we be using Kralk’s power, and I don’t see what good that’d do us- we already have asuran golems, and we don’t know how complicated or lengthy building crystal fortresses might be.
She was created by Kralkatorrik, of course she was part of his power. Her oracle ability was given by her master to stop those who wanted to kill the dragon. Unless we have any proof of her got power from other source, she was a champion of Kralkatorrik, of course her creation was part of the dragon’s power as well.
“I can hear the thoughts of creatures. I am an oracle. I heard their plots against my master, stopped them before they reached him, killed them in their tracks. But I also felt their agony, their loss. It grieved me.
“At first, for centuries, I defended my master. But I could hear his thoughts, too, and I knew that if he rose again, all good things would come to an end.” Glint blinked, staring at Eir. “Now is that time. Even now, Kralkatorrik is rising.”-EoD
We have that she was said to have regained her free will, which would require her to be independent in the first place. Dialogue in Arah indicates she was a pre-existing creature who was corrupted, whereas no source indicates she was created by Kralkatorrik.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
We have that she was said to have regained her free will, which would require her to be independent in the first place. Dialogue in Arah indicates she was a pre-existing creature who was corrupted, whereas no source indicates she was created by Kralkatorrik.
Warden Illyra: Glint was a champion of the Elder Dragon Kralkatorrik, but somehow she shook off his yoke.
It’s quite clear, I don’t think we should argue on this any further.
That seems a bit of a jump. The Master is supposedly trying to hatch the egg, which inclines we to think we want to help for what a dragon can do, not because the egg might have a passive corruption-cleanse buff.
To me, it seemed that he was just trying to hide the egg, not hatch it. Ogden mentioned that it’s been in stasis since Glint’s death – so the Master of Peace likely had it for ~7 years now.
She was created by Kralkatorrik, of course she was part of his power. Her oracle ability was given by her master to stop those who wanted to kill the dragon. Unless we have any proof of her got power from other source, she was a champion of Kralkatorrik, of course her creation was part of the dragon’s power as well.
Warden Illyra hints that Glint was corrupted, not created, by Kralkatorrik.
Warden Illyra: Glint remained in crystalline form, but she regained her free will and identity.
To regain something, one must have had and lose it.
We have that she was said to have regained her free will, which would require her to be independent in the first place. Dialogue in Arah indicates she was a pre-existing creature who was corrupted, whereas no source indicates she was created by Kralkatorrik.
Warden Illyra: Glint was a champion of the Elder Dragon Kralkatorrik, but somehow she shook off his yoke.
It’s quite clear, I don’t think we should argue on this any further.
Morgus Lethe was a champion of Zhaitan. Before corruption, he was a norn.
A dragon champion isn’t solely created, they could be corrupted.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Warden Illyra hints that Glint was corrupted, not created, by Kralkatorrik.
Warden Illyra: Glint remained in crystalline form, but she regained her free will and identity.
To regain something, one must have had and lose it.
Glint had free will from the beginning. As it was told by herself.
Eir’s brow furrowed. “Why would you ally with humans against your own kind?”
The dragon’s great eyes went gray. "I can hear the thoughts of creatures. I am an oracle. I heard their plots against my master, stopped them before they reached him, killed them in their tracks. But I also felt their agony, their loss. It grieved me.
“At first, for centuries, I defended my master. But I could hear his thoughts, too, and I knew that if he rose again, all good things would come to an end.” Glint blinked, staring at Eir. “Now is that time. Even now, Kralkatorrik is rising.”
The ritual mostly removed control, but she did have her own thoughts from the beginning.
Her words> Some Npc’s judgement.
Morgus Lethe was a champion of Zhaitan. Before corruption, he was a norn.
A dragon champion isn’t solely created, they could be corrupted.
Dragons were all created, and Morgus Lethe’s special ability as a champion was given by Zhaitan, not his own.
Glint had free will from the beginning. As it was told by herself.
Then how did she regain her free will?
Dragon minions don’t have free will. They are enslaved when corrupted, fanatically devoted to their dragon. That is the entire point of the Forgotten ritual – it does not remove physical corruption of the body, it restores the individual will.
Glint does not tell her full history to Destiny’s Edge – not once did she mention the Forgotten ritual, for example. She only tells them what they need to know (or rather, what she thinks they need to know, which was enough).
What Glint tells Destiny’s Edge is events that happened after he regain her free will.
The ritual mostly removed control, but she did have her own thoughts from the beginning.
“Having her own thoughts” is not the same as “having free will”.
But Sea of Sorrows, Edge of Destiny, and various cases in-game point to the fact that dragon corruption alters one’s personality – it is effectively brainwashing with someone else’s will. They can act ‘individually’, but they have a hive mind. The forgotten ritual removes that brainwashing, giving them their own free will.
Dragons were all created, and Morgus Lethe’s special ability as a champion was given by Zhaitan, not his own.
Source on the first part?
Zhaitan’s dragons could be corrupted dragon corpses. The Claw of Jormag contains bones in its body – where did those bones come from. There are many hints of a dragon race. Not all dragons were created, it may be. Glint certainly wasn’t created, so all hints point – and nothing points to her having been created.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Then how did she regain her free will?
The NPC made a mistake, simple. She knew little about Glint compare to the dragon herself.
Dragon minions don’t have free will. They are enslaved when corrupted, fanatically devoted to their dragon. That is the entire point of the Forgotten ritual – it does not remove physical corruption of the body, it restores the individual will.
It was not the case on Glint obviously.
But I also felt their agony, their loss. It grieved me.
Glint does not tell her full history to Destiny’s Edge – not once did she mention the Forgotten ritual, for example. She only tells them what they need to know (or rather, what she thinks they need to know, which was enough).
What Glint tells Destiny’s Edge is events that happened after he regain her free will.
She made it very clear that she had her own thoughts, even when she was serving her master.
But I also felt their agony, their loss. It grieved me.
“Having her own thoughts” is not the same as “having free will”.
But Sea of Sorrows, Edge of Destiny, and various cases in-game point to the fact that dragon corruption alters one’s personality – it is effectively brainwashing with someone else’s will. They can act ‘individually’, but they have a hive mind. The forgotten ritual removes that brainwashing, giving them their own free will.
It’s not what happened to her as she said it loud and clear. Who knew Glint better? Herself, or a Sylvari who weren’t born until thousands of year later?
Zhaitan’s dragons could be corrupted dragon corpses. The Claw of Jormag contains bones in its body – where did those bones come from. There are many hints of a dragon race. Not all dragons were created, it may be. Glint certainly wasn’t created, so all hints point – and nothing points to her having been created.
Speculation is no proof, again. It’s not wise to use “certainly”. We also saw there were Dragons creating their champions-Primordus and its destroyers.
Bone is just part of the ice.
Like the Dragonspawn, it was made of ice and could turn into a storm.
Its body was fashioned of living ice. It had a long head like a cattle skull, and its eyes glowed with eerie blue flame. The rest of it seemed skeletal as well, with an arching spine draped in white robes. A blue-gray vapor circulated among its icy ribs, forming the body of the creature. Gaunt arms lifted clawed fingers, and gaunt legs spread talons on the ice. The creature reached to its sword belt and drew out a blade that was so cold it roiled with frost.
Then how did she regain her free will?
The NPC made a mistake, simple. She knew little about Glint compare to the dragon herself.
Dragon minions don’t have free will. They are enslaved when corrupted, fanatically devoted to their dragon. That is the entire point of the Forgotten ritual – it does not remove physical corruption of the body, it restores the individual will.
It was not the case on Glint obviously.
But I also felt their agony, their loss. It grieved me.
That bit Glint’s quoting is – as shown in this episode – AFTER THE RITUAL.
If Glint had free will from the get go WHY DID THE FORGOTTEN PUT HER UNDER THE RITUAL?
You are right – she did have free will. AFTER THE RITUAL. She grieved. AFTER THE RITUAL. But you are wrong – she regained her free will BECAUSE OF THE RITUAL.
Think about it.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
That bit Glint’s quoting is – as shown in this episode – AFTER THE RITUAL.
If Glint had free will from the get go WHY DID THE FORGOTTEN PUT HER UNDER THE RITUAL?
You are right – she did have free will. AFTER THE RITUAL. She grieved. AFTER THE RITUAL. But you are wrong – she regained her free will BECAUSE OF THE RITUAL.
Think about it.
“I can hear the thoughts of creatures. I am an oracle. I heard their plots against my master, stopped them before they reached him, killed them in their tracks. But I also felt their agony, their loss. It grieved me.
Nothing said she it she felt it later, she obviously was saying that she felt it at the same time she did it.
THEN she added
“At first, for centuries, I defended my master. But I could hear his thoughts, too, and I knew that if he rose again, all good things would come to an end.” Glint blinked, staring at Eir. “Now is that time. Even now, Kralkatorrik is rising.”
Also, no evidence could prove that Glint was really cleansed by it or how was her condition before the ritual. Her own words is much more reliable than a Sylvari’s.
Glint was also answering “Why did she choose to help”, if she was firstly enslaved by Kralkatorrik rather than created, she would have simply told them this rather than her feeling.
But we know that she underwent a ritual that frees dragon minions from an Elder Dragon’s will. This has even happened to Glint.
Do you really think that ArenaNet would reveal the entire story before the game was even released?
Do you really think Glint would waste time explaining her full history when Kralkatorrik was waking and about to come attack her?
Glint never said she was created, why must she say she was enslaved.
Glint is known for keeping secrets – like the fact she was a dragon minion and not a creation of the gods like was spread for thousands of years.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
But we know that she underwent a ritual that frees dragon minions from an Elder Dragon’s will. This has even happened to Glint.
Do you really think that ArenaNet would reveal the entire story before the game was even released?
Do you really think Glint would waste time explaining her full history when Kralkatorrik was waking and about to come attack her?
Glint never said she was created, why must she say she was enslaved.
Glint is known for keeping secrets – like the fact she was a dragon minion and not a creation of the gods like was spread for thousands of years.
Eh no, we don’t see it, only heard it from a Sylvari who knew little about Glint.
Of course if there was a ritual that could free the dragon minions, it could help a lot. Glint still calls Kralkatorrik her “master”.
All the known champion dragons were created, we don’t see any non champion dragons, unless there is evidence, the same happens to Glint.
Marjory and Kasmeer are used as exposition tools recapping everything known about Glint in the story step Hidden Arcana. They include talking about the Forgotten freed Glint.
They gave her free will, but it was her ability to read minds that made her change.
Glint says that Kralkatorrik was her master, not that he is.
There is evidence. But you just handwave it away as irrelevant without any proper cause. And nothing says that all dragon shaped champions were created. We see that the Shatterers were, the Great Destroyers likely were and the Shadow of the Dragon may be too, being planty, but nothing says so for the rest.
Continuing this is pointless because your taking Glint’s statement to be the full story when it’s clear it wasn’t, and dismissing everything else because ‘Glint didn’t say it’.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
Within the Dragonbrand, there are countless corrupted creatures, all of whom use the fleshy part of their bodies as the base and Kralk’s corruption crystals as the obvious visible form of corruption.
The Shatterer is built entirely from these corruption crystals, and there is no fleshy aspect of it. It is the “pure” form of the Branded.
Zhaitan raises the dead. For something to be raised, it must first be alive. Tequatl, Blightgast, etc. are all Risen champions. It follows that their skeletal structure comes from a previously living being. Unlike Kralk, there doesn’t seem to be a “pure” form of Risen corruption, it only significantly affects the dead. Orr itself is corrupted, yes, but things are not physically twisted in the same way they are in the Dragonbrand, which is a corruption of the creatures, plants, buildings, and land itself. Blightgast and the others had to have been some kind of draconic creature before becoming powerful Risen champions.
And it’s true that we find remnants of bones from fleshy creatures in a multitude of Icebrood. I also thought that Svanir himself as the Nornbear was a champion of Jormag? So they don’t necessarily have to all be dragons.
From this evidence it follows that Glint, who was mostly fleshy with Branded crystals coming out of her, had been a dragon before being corrupted by Kralk. Also, it’s usually creatures who had been uncorrupted and become corrupted who are able to still reproduce through eggs after corruption. Correct me if I’m wrong on that point though.
Marjory and Kasmeer are used as exposition tools recapping everything known about Glint in the story step Hidden Arcana. They include talking about the Forgotten freed Glint.
They gave her free will, but it was her ability to read minds that made her change.
Glint says that Kralkatorrik was her master, not that he is.
There is evidence. But you just handwave it away as irrelevant without any proper cause. And nothing says that all dragon shaped champions were created. We see that the Shatterers were, the Great Destroyers likely were and the Shadow of the Dragon may be too, being planty, but nothing says so for the rest.
Continuing this is pointless because your taking Glint’s statement to be the full story when it’s clear it wasn’t, and dismissing everything else because ‘Glint didn’t say it’.
The exact quote?
She made clear “my master” not “my former master” a couple of times.
The dragons were created because there were no other dragons other than Glint and Drakkar before their awakening. Quite a few of them, including the Dragonspawn was also created by Jormag, of course those dragons were part of the creation. Otherwise where did they come from when the Dragon awoke?
Glint made it clear she felt sad when she did it, I don’t see why are you keep twisting it.
There were quite a few Dragons beside Glint and Drakkar actually.
Rotscale was quite clearly a dragon.
Kuunavang as well.
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Within the Dragonbrand, there are countless corrupted creatures, all of whom use the fleshy part of their bodies as the base and Kralk’s corruption crystals as the obvious visible form of corruption.
The Shatterer is built entirely from these corruption crystals, and there is no fleshy aspect of it. It is the “pure” form of the Branded.Zhaitan raises the dead. For something to be raised, it must first be alive. Tequatl, Blightgast, etc. are all Risen champions. It follows that their skeletal structure comes from a previously living being. Unlike Kralk, there doesn’t seem to be a “pure” form of Risen corruption, it only significantly affects the dead. Orr itself is corrupted, yes, but things are not physically twisted in the same way they are in the Dragonbrand, which is a corruption of the creatures, plants, buildings, and land itself. Blightgast and the others had to have been some kind of draconic creature before becoming powerful Risen champions.
And it’s true that we find remnants of bones from fleshy creatures in a multitude of Icebrood. I also thought that Svanir himself as the Nornbear was a champion of Jormag? So they don’t necessarily have to all be dragons.
From this evidence it follows that Glint, who was mostly fleshy with Branded crystals coming out of her, had been a dragon before being corrupted by Kralk. Also, it’s usually creatures who had been uncorrupted and become corrupted who are able to still reproduce through eggs after corruption. Correct me if I’m wrong on that point though.
The Dragonspawn and the Claw of Jormag were both simply created by Jormag. Some Icebrood was also just made of ice. So called “bones” on dragons were just part of the ice like the Dragonspawn’s “skull” and “spine”. The Shadow of Dragon was also made by Mord. The Great Destroyers. All the known Dragons were simply created by the Elder Dragons. So Zhaitan could simply split part of its power to create those dragons like the other Elder Dragons, remember itself was formed by countless “dragons”. All other dragons were created, unless we have hard evidence, then Glint was created as well. Also remember we don’t see her in GW2 , in GW1 the concept of the Elder Dragons weren’t created yet at least during Prophecies.
Also Kralkatorrik’s branded’s special ability mostly came from their master.
(edited by Slowpokeking.8720)
There were quite a few Dragons beside Glint and Drakkar actually.
Rotscale was quite clearly a dragon.
Kuunavang as well.
Bone dragons actually.
Kuunavang was not from Tyria. It was a member of some species I forgot their names.
If Rotscale was a bone dragon, and there were things like necrid horsemen who also used to be alive but were undead (not Risen), then weren’t there dragons around who would become Rotscale and the others?
Bone dragons actually.
Kuunavang was not from Tyria. It was a member of some species I forgot their names.
Are you going to claim that Bone Dragons hatched as skeletons?
Kuunavang was a saltspray dragon. Don’t really see why it matters that she was not from Tyria though. You imply that there were no other dragons than Glint and Drakkar, and that the Elder Dragons created the rest.
That is quite clearly not true (unless the Elder Dragon created all the other dragons that don’t show any actual connection to the Elder Dragons.
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
It’s also similar to Zhaitan’s Eyes, they could sense magic and some minds. Such ability was clearly granted by the dragon, not those kings/queens’ original ability.
Are you going to claim that Bone Dragons hatched as skeletons?
Kuunavang was a saltspray dragon. Don’t really see why it matters that she was not from Tyria though. You imply that there were no other dragons than Glint and Drakkar, and that the Elder Dragons created the rest.
That is quite clearly not true (unless the Elder Dragon created all the other dragons that don’t show any actual connection to the Elder Dragons.
No, it can be formed by different pieces of bones with a dragon shape. Necromancy could also twist the flesh or bone’s shape.
Saltspray dragon was a different species than the Tyria dragons. It was based on Chinese dragons. The Tyria champion dragons’ shape was totally different
words
The Dragonspawn and the Claw of Jormag were both simply created by Jormag. Some Icebrood was also just made of ice. So called “bones” on dragons were just part of the ice like the Dragonspawn’s “skull” and “spine”. The Shadow of Dragon was also made by Mord. The Great Destroyers. All the known Dragons were simply created by the Elder Dragons. So Zhaitan could simply split part of its power to create those dragons like the other Elder Dragons, remember itself was formed by countless “dragons”. All other dragons were created, unless we have hard evidence, then Glint was created as well. Also remember we don’t see her in GW2 , in GW1 the concept of the Elder Dragons weren’t created yet at least during Prophecies.
Also Kralkatorrik’s branded’s special ability mostly came from their master.
We do see Glint in a cinematic, and she’s very clearly the same as she was in GW1.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Glint.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Glint%27s_corpse.jpg
Zhaitan could clearly fall apart, but I don’t think it’s in his power to simply ‘create’ some littler dragons. He’d have to raise them. His powers were not the same as the other Elder Dragons, just like Primordus never actually seems to corrupt anything alive, just molten rock.
Also, to be fair, ANet has said that Kuunavang and Glint were very very different dragons. I would not say that means Glint was never an uncorrupted dragon.
I think it’s stretching things a bit too far to say that there were no other kinds of dragons apart from Elder Dragons and their champions, as you’re bending over backwards to show the exceptional evidence as untrue.
The burden of proof does not lie in our arguments, but also in yours. Where is the evidence that there were no dragons of any sort in continental Tyria? Everything seems to point to them existing before, with contrived ‘evidence’ supporting the lack of dragons.
We do see Glint in a cinematic, and she’s very clearly the same as she was in GW1.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Glint.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Glint%27s_corpse.jpgZhaitan could clearly fall apart, but I don’t think it’s in his power to simply ‘create’ some littler dragons. He’d have to raise them. His powers were not the same as the other Elder Dragons, just like Primordus never actually seems to corrupt anything alive, just molten rock.
Also, to be fair, ANet has said that Kuunavang and Glint were very very different dragons. I would not say that means Glint was never an uncorrupted dragon.
I think it’s stretching things a bit too far to say that there were no other kinds of dragons apart from Elder Dragons and their champions, as you’re bending over backwards to show the exceptional evidence as untrue.
The burden of proof does not lie in our arguments, but also in yours. Where is the evidence that there were no dragons of any sort in continental Tyria? Everything seems to point to them existing before, with contrived ‘evidence’ supporting the lack of dragons.
Yeah it went a bit far. So let’s get back to the topic.
Zhaitan’s power does not just include raise undead, it could also rise a big continent. It totally makes sense if it could do this, or it could just use a lot of corpses to twist shape(many Risens’ shape was twisted) then form a dragon shape abomination like the other dragons use rock/ice/crystal/plants to form their dragon champions.
No matter did the dragons create or corrupt their champions, other than physical abilities, their main power were granted by their masters.
Great Destroyer-lava ability, command destroyers.
Shatterer-Crystal attacks
Eye of Zhaitan-see magic or minds, ray attacks
Mouth of Zhaitan- devour magic for Zhaitan, sound attacks
Undead dragons-Death and Shadow attacks
Nornbear-spirit skills
Drakkar-Mind abilities
Claw of Jormag-Ice attacks
Dragonspawn-Mind Abilities and turn into storm
Undead Captains-control the dead ships
Quite a few dragons gave their champions the ability to affect minds or see minds, Jormag and Zhaitan both did. So it’s safe to say that Glint’s power came from her master since Kralkatorrik does have ability to corrupt minds.
Actually Jormag and Kralkatorrik shares a lot of similarities.
Both corrupt living beings, cover them with ice/crystals and twist their minds.
Both could use ice/crystal to form minions directly.
Both could affect the weather in some way.
Jormag is the “living Blizzard”, Kralkatorrik could turn into a sandstorm.
The rank of Shatterer and the Claws of Jormag were similar.
So it makes sense that Glint once had the power to read mind just like the Dragonspawn could affect mind.
Yeah it went a bit far. So let’s get back to the topic.
Zhaitan’s power does not just include raise undead, it could also rise a big continent. It totally makes sense if it could do this, or it could just use a lot of corpses to twist shape(many Risens’ shape was twisted) then form a dragon shape abomination like the other dragons use rock/ice/crystal/plants to form their dragon champions.
No matter did the dragons create or corrupt their champions, other than physical abilities, their main power were granted by their masters.
Great Destroyer-lava ability, command destroyers.
Shatterer-Crystal attacks
Eye of Zhaitan-see magic or minds, ray attacks
Mouth of Zhaitan- devour magic for Zhaitan, sound attacks
Undead dragons-Death and Shadow attacks
Nornbear-spirit skills
Drakkar-Mind abilities
Claw of Jormag-Ice attacks
Dragonspawn-Mind Abilities and turn into storm
Undead Captains-control the dead shipsQuite a few dragons gave their champions the ability to affect minds or see minds, Jormag and Zhaitan both did. So it’s safe to say that Glint’s power came from her master since Kralkatorrik does have ability to corrupt minds.
It’s true that he could do a bit more than just raise dead things, otherwise he’d just be a huge be-wing’d lich.
And yeah, Glint may have gotten some of her powers from Kralk, but before corruption she must’ve had free will, which is what people were arguing for. Her powers are up for discussion, but if she regained her free will, then she most likely had willpower before corruption.
If she’s feeling remorse at the time of killing towns and villages, she can’t do anything about it, hence her lack of free will. She was aware of what she was doing but could do little to stop it.
Then the forgotten step in and do some kind of ritual which frees her enough to be able to act upon her interpretations. As somebody who was forced to do so many things for so long, it probably took a bit to acclimate to the free will. But if she’s regained it, she had it in the first place.
Her exceptional powers were likely granted by Kralk, yes I agree.
It’s true that he could do a bit more than just raise dead things, otherwise he’d just be a huge be-wing’d lich.
And yeah, Glint may have gotten some of her powers from Kralk, but before corruption she must’ve had free will, which is what people were arguing for. Her powers are up for discussion, but if she regained her free will, then she most likely had willpower before corruption.
If she’s feeling remorse at the time of killing towns and villages, she can’t do anything about it, hence her lack of free will. She was aware of what she was doing but could do little to stop it.
Then the forgotten step in and do some kind of ritual which frees her enough to be able to act upon her interpretations. As somebody who was forced to do so many things for so long, it probably took a bit to acclimate to the free will. But if she’s regained it, she had it in the first place.
Her exceptional powers were likely granted by Kralk, yes I agree.
Actually we don’t know much other than some NPC’s(who never saw her, only heard from some studies) words, so we should wait to see was she created or corrupted. She also never talked about that she hated Kralkatorrik for enslave her, it looks like she didn’t hate her master before she knew its idea and saw what happened to its victims.
Back to the topic, since her power came from her master, her baby dragon also was covered in crystal. I think it’s fair to say the egg contained Kralkatorrik’s power, which we might use against Mord. That was my main point before the discussion went offtrack.
The exact quote?
She made clear “my master” not “my former master” a couple of times.
The dragons were created because there were no other dragons other than Glint and Drakkar before their awakening. Quite a few of them, including the Dragonspawn was also created by Jormag, of course those dragons were part of the creation. Otherwise where did they come from when the Dragon awoke?
Glint made it clear she felt sad when she did it, I don’t see why are you keep twisting it.
She said “my master” and not " my former master", true, but she used that phrase (“my master”) when talking about the past. E.g., I defended my master.
As in, Kralkatorrik was her master then. Does not require for the situation to remain true. Which it doesn’t, as she said.
The Dragonspawn was not a dragon. Dragon champion, yes, but not a dragon. Drakkar similarly is never called a dragon, but a dragon champion. Dragon champions come in all shapes and sizes. Dragons come in two shapes: Tyrian dragons and Saltspray dragons.
And what all constitutes Tyrian dragons?
Glint, Rotscale, bone dragons, The Shatterers, Claws of Jormag, The Great Destroyers, Shadow of the Dragon, Tequatl, Blightghast, and the many dragon’s in Orr’s skies.
Of these, only the Shatterers and Great Destroyers are known constructs. With the Claws of Jormag and Shadow of the Dragon to be possibles.
Dragon minions are known to be incapable of pregnancy – because their bodies are elemental or rotten. This may not be so for Mordrem though, but it is for all the rest. Only creatures pregnant upon corruption can lay eggs (potentially give live birth too but we have yet to see this). The fact Glint has crystal eggs hints she was pregnant when corrupted.
And Glint and Rotscale – bone dragons known to be corpses that were raised out of the ground which is when they lost their lower half, Rotscale included – were compared to each other even after Glint’s reveal as a dragon champion. So if Rotscale was once living, but doesn’t seem to have been a dragon champion, and is ‘the same but different’ from Glint and Kuunavang, and Kuunavang is a living dragon… Rather heavily implies Glint wasonce a living dragon. Her pregnancy, regaining free will, etc. is but icing on the cake.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Actually Jormag and Kralkatorrik shares a lot of similarities.
Both corrupt living beings, cover them with ice/crystals and twist their minds.
Both could use ice/crystal to form minions directly.
Both could affect the weather in some way.
Jormag is the “living Blizzard”, Kralkatorrik could turn into a sandstorm.
The rank of Shatterer and the Claws of Jormag were similar.
So it makes sense that Glint once had the power to read mind just like the Dragonspawn could affect mind.
Kralkatorrik’s corruption is more of the opposite of Jormag.
Jormag’s corruption is slow and begins on the skin and hair, slowly turning the flesh into ice but leaving bone as bone.
Kralkatorrik’s corruption is near instantaneous and leaves the skin and bone and turning blood and sinew into crystal.
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/uploads/gallery/album_163/gallery_3318_163_39486.png
As to the last bit, Jeff Grubb stated at one point that is an attribute unique to Jormag specifically. Glint was unique amongst the Branded with her telepathy.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
“You would help us stop the dragonrise?”
“No one can stop it. But I will fight beside you against my master.”
“Tell us his name!”
The dragon’s massive eyes slowly slid closed, then opened again to focus on Eir. “His name is Kralkatorrik.”
She made it quite clear that she still called Kralkatorrik her master.
The Dragonspawn was not a dragon. Dragon champion, yes, but not a dragon. Drakkar similarly is never called a dragon, but a dragon champion. Dragon champions come in all shapes and sizes. Dragons come in two shapes: Tyrian dragons and Saltspray dragons.
And what all constitutes Tyrian dragons?
Glint, Rotscale, bone dragons, The Shatterers, Claws of Jormag, The Great Destroyers, Shadow of the Dragon, Tequatl, Blightghast, and the many dragon’s in Orr’s skies.
Of these, only the Shatterers and Great Destroyers are known constructs. With the Claws of Jormag and Shadow of the Dragon to be possibles.
Dragon minions are known to be incapable of pregnancy – because their bodies are elemental or rotten. This may not be so for Mordrem though, but it is for all the rest. Only creatures pregnant upon corruption can lay eggs (potentially give live birth too but we have yet to see this). The fact Glint has crystal eggs hints she was pregnant when corrupted.
It’s not the case.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Branded_Devourer_Egg
Branded creature can hatch eggs.
And Glint and Rotscale – bone dragons known to be corpses that were raised out of the ground which is when they lost their lower half, Rotscale included – were compared to each other even after Glint’s reveal as a dragon champion. So if Rotscale was once living, but doesn’t seem to have been a dragon champion, and is ‘the same but different’ from Glint and Kuunavang, and Kuunavang is a living dragon… Rather heavily implies Glint wasonce a living dragon. Her pregnancy, regaining free will, etc. is but icing on the cake.
Kuunavang=different species, again I made my point clear, it’s not necessary to continue go off track of the topic again.
Kralkatorrik’s corruption is more of the opposite of Jormag.
Jormag’s corruption is slow and begins on the skin and hair, slowly turning the flesh into ice but leaving bone as bone.
Kralkatorrik’s corruption is near instantaneous and leaves the skin and bone and turning blood and sinew into crystal.
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/uploads/gallery/album_163/gallery_3318_163_39486.png
As to the last bit, Jeff Grubb stated at one point that is an attribute unique to Jormag specifically. Glint was unique amongst the Branded with her telepathy.
It’s just the process on the surface, but they corrupt the minds instantly.
No, he said other dragons “may not” have the ability, not they don’t for sure. We saw that Kralkatorrik itself can corrupt mind.
But Glint is not fanatically devout, like all non-freed dragon minions. which is the main point. Dragon minions do not have free will. Glint does – a full pure anomaly. And why? Because of the Forgotten’s ritual.
As I stated, if pregnancy already exists; aka if an egg exists then the egg can be corrupted. That’s what happens for the Risen and branded eggs we see.
Sure, Kuunavang is… But what about Rotscale and the Bone Dragons? You did not speak of that.
And all dragons corrupt the mind – because, former creature or not all dragon minions are enslaved, brainwashed, into fanatical servants. This is seen with icebrood, branded, risen, and Mordrem. But aside from Glint, only Jormag and his champions have telepathy. And apparently Mordremoth, who’s sphere of influence is the mind and as such is unique.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
I’m going to side with Konig and everyone else here, Slow, you are fighting a losing battle and apparently the only person that thinks the Elder Dragon’s Champions are created…well, you’re clearly wrong, there were at one time lots of dragons living in Tyria, we even see there skeletal remnants throught GW1, you walk under a tail section on the way to the Flame Temple Corridor. There are several in the Eye of the North campaign as well, so it’s quite logical that Glint was at one time a free dragon, like her brothers and sisters, only to be corrupted by Kralkatorrik and then freed by the Forgotten ritual.
But Glint is not fanatically devout, like all non-freed dragon minions. which is the main point. Dragon minions do not have free will. Glint does – a full pure anomaly. And why? Because of the Forgotten’s ritual.
As I stated, if pregnancy already exists; aka if an egg exists then the egg can be corrupted. That’s what happens for the Risen and branded eggs we see.
Sure, Kuunavang is… But what about Rotscale and the Bone Dragons? You did not speak of that.
And all dragons corrupt the mind – because, former creature or not all dragon minions are enslaved, brainwashed, into fanatical servants. This is seen with icebrood, branded, risen, and Mordrem. But aside from Glint, only Jormag and his champions have telepathy. And apparently Mordremoth, who’s sphere of influence is the mind and as such is unique.
Actually it was your own statement all along.
You are using your own statement to prove your point all along. Where did it state that ALL minions were unquestionably loyal in their mind rather than just being controlled? No proof at all. Especially the champions.
Bone dragons could simply be made of other corpses like the Risen Knight.
That’s not right, Kralkatorrik flew up years ago, if the eggs were corrupted at that time it would have been hatched, which makes no sense. Again where is your proof of this? You are using your own statement to prove your point here.
No, Eye of Zhaitan could also see through prisoner’s mind or even their dream as well. All known champions’ special power was given by their master.
I’m going to side with Konig and everyone else here, Slow, you are fighting a losing battle and apparently the only person that thinks the Elder Dragon’s Champions are created…well, you’re clearly wrong, there were at one time lots of dragons living in Tyria, we even see there skeletal remnants throught GW1, you walk under a tail section on the way to the Flame Temple Corridor. There are several in the Eye of the North campaign as well, so it’s quite logical that Glint was at one time a free dragon, like her brothers and sisters, only to be corrupted by Kralkatorrik and then freed by the Forgotten ritual.
What? The Great Destroyer, the Dragonspawn and the Claw of Jormag, the Shadow of the Dragon, the Shatterer weren’t created?
Again Glint herself never said such thing, she made clear that she was against her master simply because of its thoughts and the other being’s feeling.
In the cleansing of Orr, the Sovereign Eye also showed that it had ability to see other’s mind.
Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan: Mortal, fragile. Flesh and bark and fur. You are infinitely breakable. (around 75% health)
Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan: I can see into your very soul…
Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan: I see in your heart that you have lost someone to Zhaitan. Someone named…<Mentor>. She/He is waiting for you now, beneath the dragon’s wings… (around 50% health)
Actually it was your own statement all along.
You are using your own statement to prove your point all along. Where did it state that ALL minions were unquestionably loyal in their mind rather than just being controlled? No proof at all. Especially the champions.Bone dragons could simply be made of other corpses like the Risen Knight.
That’s not right, Kralkatorrik flew up years ago, if the eggs were corrupted at that time it would have been hatched, which makes no sense. Again where is your proof of this? You are using your own statement to prove your point here.
No, Eye of Zhaitan could also see through prisoner’s mind or even their dream as well. All known champions’ special power was given by their master.
Actually there’s a lot of proof in GW1 that undead dragons were not cobbled together, especially since there’s zero indication that they’re anything other than dragons pulled from the dead. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Decayed_Dragon the name indicates that it was a non-decayed dragon, and now it has decayed. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Scribe/20060713 talks about how Rotscale performs his own actions and raises other dragons from the dead, and reanimates corpses. Nothing is said about building new and unusual sets of bones.
The only corpses in GW1 that seem to be entirely cobbled together are the minions that necromancers create. Even the Scepter of Orr just raised corpses out of the ground.
You assume that dragon eggs hatch quickly. We don’t know anything about their life cycles.
Also, an alternative view of devourers and spiders and dragons that produce young while corrupted is not necessarily being pregnant beforehand, but having been an uncorrupted creature with the ability to reproduce before corruption.
Actually there’s a lot of proof in GW1 that undead dragons were not cobbled together, especially since there’s zero indication that they’re anything other than dragons pulled from the dead. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Decayed_Dragon the name indicates that it was a non-decayed dragon, and now it has decayed. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Scribe/20060713 talks about how Rotscale performs his own actions and raises other dragons from the dead, and reanimates corpses. Nothing is said about building new and unusual sets of bones.
The only corpses in GW1 that seem to be entirely cobbled together are the minions that necromancers create. Even the Scepter of Orr just raised corpses out of the ground.
You assume that dragon eggs hatch quickly. We don’t know anything about their life cycles.
Also, an alternative view of devourers and spiders and dragons that produce young while corrupted is not necessarily being pregnant beforehand, but having been an uncorrupted creature with the ability to reproduce before corruption.
Probably, but it was not the main point really.
I’m talking about the branded devourer’s eggs. Even the destroyers could also lay “eggpods”. They were made of lava and rocks by the dragon’s power.
In the cleansing of Orr, the Sovereign Eye also showed that it had ability to see other’s mind.
Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan: Mortal, fragile. Flesh and bark and fur. You are infinitely breakable. (around 75% health)
Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan: I can see into your very soul…
Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan: I see in your heart that you have lost someone to Zhaitan. Someone named…<Mentor>. She/He is waiting for you now, beneath the dragon’s wings… (around 50% health)
Which can easily be explained simply by the fact that it knows that we have lost said person and might not have anything at all to do with mind-reading.
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
In the cleansing of Orr, the Sovereign Eye also showed that it had ability to see other’s mind.
Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan: Mortal, fragile. Flesh and bark and fur. You are infinitely breakable. (around 75% health)
Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan: I can see into your very soul…
Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan: I see in your heart that you have lost someone to Zhaitan. Someone named…<Mentor>. She/He is waiting for you now, beneath the dragon’s wings… (around 50% health)Which can easily be explained simply by the fact that it knows that we have lost said person and might not have anything at all to do with mind-reading.
It made clear that it can see through your soul. The mad prisoner also stated that another eye could see “through my mind, see through your dream.”
This eye’s duty was to guard the source of Orr, how did it know you lost your mentor in the battle of Claw Island?
I’m a bit kittened that when some NPC’s lines support your point, you say it’s fact, when some didn’t, you say it’s lying.
Was some Sylvari/humans who never met Glint reliable about her past before as dragon champion? Compare to the Eye of Zhaitan itself and its prisoner’s words?
(edited by Slowpokeking.8720)
All the Eyes (and other champions) are connected directly to Zhaitan. Everything one of them experience is known by Zhaitan and by extension the other champions.
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
All the Eyes (and other champions) are connected directly to Zhaitan. Everything one of them experience is known by Zhaitan and by extension the other champions.
No, Zhaitan knew what all its eye see, but no evidence showed that each eyes share the same vision. During the “What the Eye beholds”, the dead eyes’ vision only showed what it saw, not different visions of different eyes. Also, there were no Eyes in the battle of Claw’s island.
Also, the mad prisoner proved that the eyes can see through others’ mind.
Back on topic, it’s pointless to talk about was Glint created or not since there were no clear evidence, but all the champion’s special ability other than physical strength was granted by the dragon. Including Nornbear or the Risen captains, who were indeed corrupted. So Glint’s power came from Kralkatorrik, and we are likely going to use it against Mord.
Zhaitan knew what its champions saw (and got all knowledge from everyone it corrupted). Since the Eyes were all directly connected to Zhaitan, it is not really that far-fetched to fill in the blanks and figure out that it was fully aware about what had happened to the mentor.
Either directly from the champion there. Or from corrupting one of the soldiers in the area (or potentially the Mentor itself in the case of Tybalt and Forgal).
The mad prisoner was just that. Mad. And even if it would appear to have had access to its mind it can be explained by simply having corrupted close relatives or friends of the prisoner and thus having gained access to that information.
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square