Are we gonna use dragon's power against Mord?
Actually it was your own statement all along.
You are using your own statement to prove your point all along. Where did it state that ALL minions were unquestionably loyal in their mind rather than just being controlled? No proof at all. Especially the champions.
It’s not stated, but we can see it pretty bloody well. Read Sea of Sorrows and Edge of Destiny – I’d quote, but i don’t have the novels on me.
Bromm and Grymm, I think the norn brothers’ names were, in Sea of Sorrows. One of them dies and his personality changes instantly from fighting Zhaitan, to worshiping him and claiming he’ll give everyone immortality through undeath (not in those words, but that meaning).
In EoD, it’s the charr who witnesses Kralkatorrik’s awakening, and the ogre chieftain. Both have their minds altered when corrupted – and the ogre appears to be a champion, given that he leads the branded after corruption.
We have dozens – if not hundreds – of cases where dragon minions attack former allies once corrupted.
We have dev posts stating and/or implying that they have a hive mind.
We have Khrigar Ripjaw stating that only Jormag doesn’t enslave when corrupting, but pulls people to worship him before corrupting.
If dragon minions – champions included – did not have their minds altered then why would they know of the Elder Dragon if they died before their awakening (Orrian risen), why would they attack former allies (all dragon minions)? Explain this.
Where is YOUR proof? I’ve provided mine, now that I’m not on the road for the time. Provide yours that the dragon minions aren’t such.
Bone dragons could simply be made of other corpses like the Risen Knight.
“Of course, any evaluation of the undead army would be incomplete without an account of the “Big Bad”—the bone dragon. In death, this beast is more than five times the height of a man—over thirty feet long. When it was raised from the grave, its powerful front claws pulled its tremendous girth out of the soil with such force that it tore its own body in half. In unlife, it drags itself across the ground, spitting putrescence and ravaging all who dare get within reach."
That’s not right, Kralkatorrik flew up years ago, if the eggs were corrupted at that time it would have been hatched, which makes no sense. Again where is your proof of this? You are using your own statement to prove your point here.
Skritt storyline.
Warmaster Forgal Kernsson: Two possibilities. Could be a creature that was pregnant when she was corrupted. Or this “queen” might be a kind of minion we’ve never seen before.
Tybalt Leftpaw: We’ve heard whispers about creatures that were already pregnant when corrupted. Though it could be a new type of minion. Ugh.
Magister Sieran: Priory records have documented such creatures. They were pregnant when they were corrupted. Or it might be something new. How exiting!
In this situation, it turns to be the latter – something new – but other situations is the former.
How long does it take for a corrupted egg to hatch?
Do you think the rotten, decayed, spiders and drakes and chickens of Orr are getting down on each other for the past century, explaining all those rotten eggs that spawn hatchlings? Or perhaps – similar to Glint’s egg – they were in stasis until needed to be hatched, perhaps?
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
No, Eye of Zhaitan could also see through prisoner’s mind or even their dream as well. All known champions’ special power was given by their master.
You quoted the Eye claiming to see the soul, not mind or dream, and claiming that they have a risen sylvari waiting for the PC.
Not very reliable claim there.
What? The Great Destroyer, the Dragonspawn and the Claw of Jormag, the Shadow of the Dragon, the Shatterer weren’t created?
The Dragonspawn is not a dragon.
Again Glint herself never said such thing, she made clear that she was against her master simply because of its thoughts and the other being’s feeling.
She also never said that her death would result in her magic seeping out into the world – or Kralkatorrik’s for that matter.
She also never said anything about the Zephyrites.
Just as she never said anything about the Forgotten ritual.
I guess none of those things exist either, then.
See how bad your argument is?
I’m talking about the branded devourer’s eggs. Even the destroyers could also lay “eggpods”. They were made of lava and rocks by the dragon’s power.
The difference is that the devourers were once living creatures, and ALWAYS hatched devourers.
The destroyer eggs, however, hatched not just crablings, but full grown crabs and even trolls.
It made clear that it can see through your soul. The mad prisoner also stated that another eye could see “through my mind, see through your dream.”
This eye’s duty was to guard the source of Orr, how did it know you lost your mentor in the battle of Claw Island?
I’m a bit kittened that when some NPC’s lines support your point, you say it’s fact, when some didn’t, you say it’s lying.
Was some Sylvari/humans who never met Glint reliable about her past before as dragon champion? Compare to the Eye of Zhaitan itself and its prisoner’s words?
1) Seeing into your soul is not the same as telepathy.
2) Why would you believe a risen, when risen are well known for liars. Especially this guy, who says A SYLVARI is under Zhaitan’s wing.
3) Dragon minions have hive minds – read the link I posted about the Dragonspawn, and Jeff mentions it in the same post (if not in that link, then the others which can be found on GW2W’s Dragonspawn and Jormag articles).
4) And what points do you have to support yours, exactly? “Glint didn’t say it.” Yes, well, Glint didn’t say a lot.
5) And where do you think Illyra got the information. Let me quote for you:
Warden Illyra: I have learned that the last time the Elder Dragons came, the Forgotten worked with Glint, who hid the old races from the dragons’ power.
Warden Illyra: Glint was a champion of the Elder Dragon Kralkatorrik, but somehow she shook off his yoke.
Warden Illyra: Our scouts have reported ancient artifacts, which may be tied to the Forgotten.
Warden Illyra: Perhaps they hold the key for freeing creatures from the control of the dragons.
Warden Illyra: Yes. Yes! Look at these runes. The Forgotten were able to remove Kralkatorrik’s control over Glint.
Warden Illyra: Glint remained in crystalline form, but she regained her free will and identity.
Warden Illyra: If we can re-create the process, this will help in fighting the dragons.
Warden Illyra: The spell requires a location near here. We need to find a likely place to replicate the experiment.
She found this out by translating ancient Forgotten tomes.
So by saying Illyra is not reliable, you say the Forgotten’s – the people who freed Glint – knowledge is not reliable.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
No, Zhaitan knew what all its eye see, but no evidence showed that each eyes share the same vision. During the “What the Eye beholds”, the dead eyes’ vision only showed what it saw, not different visions of different eyes. Also, there were no Eyes in the battle of Claw’s island.
""We establish in EoD that the Dragonspawn communicates and controls its minions with a telepathic link. […] In fact, the heroes defeat the Dragonspawn by breaking that link, so the ice minions turn on it, seeing it as “not of the body”."
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/uploads/gallery/album_163/gallery_3318_163_39486.png
Gwen: “That’s it. What if they ARE a single creature?”
Ogden Stonehealer: “What do you mean?”
Gwen: “The Great Dwarf’s power is connected to Jalis’s followers. What if the Great Destroyer’s mind is connected to its minions.”
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Great_Destroyer_%28cinematic%29
Ogden Stonehealer: “Gwen was right.”
Ogden Stonehealer: “With the death of their master, the Destroyers lost their coordination.” http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ogden%27s_Benediction
Avatar of the Tree: Those who have been corrupted reveal everything to Zhaitan. Nothing is secret, least of all those places where his enemies hide.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/A_Light_in_the_Darkness
I believe there were other sources, but it’s an established fact that both icebrood, risen, and destroyers have a hive mind – and, I believe, branded too.
Back on topic, it’s pointless to talk about was Glint created or not since there were no clear evidence, but all the champion’s special ability other than physical strength was granted by the dragon. Including Nornbear or the Risen captains, who were indeed corrupted. So Glint’s power came from Kralkatorrik, and we are likely going to use it against Mord.
It’s not pointless to talk about it given your claim:
If Glint was created, then yes, all of her power came from Kralkatorrik – unless she gained it after freedom. However, if Glint was corrupted, then it’s possible that some of her power, like her telepathy, was around pre-corruption.
Zhaitan knew what its eyes see, does not mean its champions, its eyes were connected to each other and each of them knew everything. The Pact did test on the eye and it only showed what itself saw, not all visions by other eyes or other champions. Otherwise it would have been much easier to find the source of Orr.
Zhaitan’s corrupt power doesn’t rise Sylvari.
The experiment does not show all it knew, just a single scene of what it saw, and was cut short by the other Eye seeing the experiment through the dead Eye’s vision. If the experiment went fully through, it’s theoretically possible to have seen all the Eye had seen over time – though the experiment was only to show what it had seen, and not what it knew.
We’re going to turn the Eye into a projector so we can see what it saw and establish a definitive link between it and Zhaitan.
We can see what it saw, not we can see what it knew.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
If dragon minions – champions included – did not have their minds altered then why would they know of the Elder Dragon if they died before their awakening (Orrian risen), why would they attack former allies (all dragon minions)? Explain this.
They don’t have control over their body, isn’t it simple?
Where is YOUR proof? I’ve provided mine, now that I’m not on the road for the time. Provide yours that the dragon minions aren’t such.
Glint’s own words. She stated clear that she could feel their sorrow and saddened herself.
Warmaster Forgal Kernsson: Two possibilities. Could be a creature that was pregnant when she was corrupted. Or this “queen” might be a kind of minion we’ve never seen before.
Tybalt Leftpaw: We’ve heard whispers about creatures that were already pregnant when corrupted. Though it could be a new type of minion. Ugh.
Magister Sieran: Priory records have documented such creatures. They were pregnant when they were corrupted. Or it might be something new. How exiting!In this situation, it turns to be the latter – something new – but other situations is the former.
Two possibilities and it proved to be later. Because if it was pregnant at that time, the egg would have been hatched long ago rather than still there. Simple.
How long does it take for a corrupted egg to hatch?
Do you think the rotten, decayed, spiders and drakes and chickens of Orr are getting down on each other for the past century, explaining all those rotten eggs that spawn hatchlings? Or perhaps – similar to Glint’s egg – they were in stasis until needed to be hatched, perhaps?
Obviously not a few years.
Dragon’s power can twist creatures’ shape, behavior and everything else. Of course it could change some of the creatures to make them lay eggs. Especially the Risen Spiders. Yes, it proved that even Risen could lay eggs.
You quoted the Eye claiming to see the soul, not mind or dream, and claiming that they have a risen sylvari waiting for the PC.
Not very reliable claim there.
In Closing the Eye.
Mad Prisoner: The Eye! It sees into my mind,into my Dream. There’s no escape.
The Eye, who was guarding the source all along, knew about your loss of your mentor, his/her name and your relationship with him/her, it’s not reliable? Are you kidding me?
She also never said anything about the Zephyrites.
Just as she never said anything about the Forgotten ritual.
I guess none of those things exist either, then.
See how bad your argument is?
If it contradict with her words, then it’s not reliable. She made her reason clear enough.
The destroyer eggs, however, hatched not just crablings, but full grown crabs and even trolls.
It doesn’t matter, they could produce “offspring” minions, and remember they were all the same thing, just taking different shapes.
1) Seeing into your soul is not the same as telepathy.
Seeing your thoughts, knew your memory is not reading your thoughts? What kind of fallacy is that?
2) Why would you believe a risen, when risen are well known for liars. Especially this guy, who says A SYLVARI is under Zhaitan’s wing.
Because it stated your mentor’s name?
3) Dragon minions have hive minds – read the link I posted about the Dragonspawn, and Jeff mentions it in the same post (if not in that link, then the others which can be found on GW2W’s Dragonspawn and Jormag articles).
WHAT? You are saying Jormag and the other dragons are different, then came back to use Jormag and the others as the example?
4) And what points do you have to support yours, exactly? “Glint didn’t say it.” Yes, well, Glint didn’t say a lot.
Glint said WHY she support the mortals, not because she was cleansed.
(edited by Slowpokeking.8720)
""We establish in EoD that the Dragonspawn communicates and controls its minions with a telepathic link. […] In fact, the heroes defeat the Dragonspawn by breaking that link, so the ice minions turn on it, seeing it as “not of the body”."
WHAT? You are saying other dragons don’t use telepathy but then use Jormag as your example? You are lost. Also it showed something that against your point.
Gwen: “That’s it. What if they ARE a single creature?”
Ogden Stonehealer: “What do you mean?”
Gwen: “The Great Dwarf’s power is connected to Jalis’s followers. What if the Great Destroyer’s mind is connected to its minions.”
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Great_Destroyer_%28cinematic%29
Ogden Stonehealer: “Gwen was right.”
Ogden Stonehealer: “With the death of their master, the Destroyers lost their coordination.” http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ogden%27s_Benediction
So other dragons champions did have a telepathic link with its minions, Great, it proved that I’m right
Avatar of the Tree: Those who have been corrupted reveal everything to Zhaitan. Nothing is secret, least of all those places where his enemies hide.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/A_Light_in_the_DarknessI believe there were other sources, but it’s an established fact that both icebrood, risen, and destroyers have a hive mind – and, I believe, branded too.
They reveal everything to Zhaitan, which means they had to tell him about it. If their might were directly linked with Zhaitan, Zhaitan would not have need its eyes to oversee the troops.
Also, the Risen doesn’t lose their way even when their champion leaders were killed. The Great Destroyer commands the destroyer troops, but the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan was not the commander of battle of Claw’s Island.
It’s not pointless to talk about it given your claim:
If Glint was created, then yes, all of her power came from Kralkatorrik – unless she gained it after freedom. However, if Glint was corrupted, then it’s possible that some of her power, like her telepathy, was around pre-corruption.
No, we can see all the champions’ special ability was granted by their master, no matter they were created or corrupted.
Nornbear’s spirit skills-Jormag
Undead Captain’s ability to control dead ships and turn those who they killed into Risen-Zhaitan
The experiment does not show all it knew, just a single scene of what it saw, and was cut short by the other Eye seeing the experiment through the dead Eye’s vision. If the experiment went fully through, it’s theoretically possible to have seen all the Eye had seen over time – though the experiment was only to show what it had seen, and not what it knew.
We’re going to turn the Eye into a projector so we can see what it saw and establish a definitive link between it and Zhaitan.
We can see what it saw, not we can see what it knew.
It showed what it saw. Since there were other eyes existing at the same time. If it could see what others see as well.
(edited by Slowpokeking.8720)
They don’t have control over their body, isn’t it simple?
So you’re saying ‘their mind isn’t altered, they just can’t control their body.’
That could be used to describe the situation… depending on interpretation, but only for the grunts of the minions. Low level minions appear to be mindless killing machine – killing anything that isn’t of their dragon minion type. This is shown by ambient actions as much as the lines I provided above (they will chase ambient creatures – rabbits etc.). But higher level minions – particularly champions – do have a level of self-decision (there was an interview, I’ll try to find it) and it is this self-decision that allows them to lead minions. But they fanatically revere their Elder Dragon.
Glint’s own words. She stated clear that she could feel their sorrow and saddened herself.
But did not say that she didn’t undergo a ritual.
Lack of explaining everything != lack of things happening
Two possibilities and it proved to be later. Because if it was pregnant at that time, the egg would have been hatched long ago rather than still there. Simple.
The fact that the first was considered means that the eggs in such a situation could last that long before hatching.
Obviously not a few years.
Says who? Why is it so obvious? Where is your source?
Dragon’s power can twist creatures’ shape, behavior and everything else. Of course it could change some of the creatures to make them lay eggs. Especially the Risen Spiders. Yes, it proved that even Risen could lay eggs.
The change in shape is changing flesh to element. Can crystal, ice, fire, stone, and decayed flesh give birth?
I don’t think so.
The simpler explanation is “it corrupted the beings within the beings corrupted too.”
In Closing the Eye.
Mad Prisoner: The Eye! It sees into my mind,into my Dream. There’s no escape.The Eye, who was guarding the source all along, knew about your loss of your mentor, his/her name and your relationship with him/her, it’s not reliable? Are you kidding me?
Because a raving lunatic is a liable source.
Let’s say the Eye can read her mind. Okay, not too surprising, it uses mesmer abilities – so does a lot of risen. But I’d like to note that with capitalizing Dream, it’s not dreams, but the Dream of Dreams.
I didn’t say naming the mentor’s name and relation is not reliable. I said a risen, the entire group of them known for being liars throughout the game, is not very reliable. Especially when the risen in question claims that a sylvari – and remember, sylvari are immune to corruption – is a risen.
If it contradict with her words, then it’s not reliable. She made her reason clear enough.
There is no contradiction.
Glint not saying the whole story and someone telling (part of) the untold story is not telling a contradiction.
It doesn’t matter, they could produce “offspring” minions, and remember they were all the same thing.
Creating minions != creating offspring.
It’s a matter of debate for Glint, but it was a point of question as I brought it up from the beginning. But it should be noted:
Only champions and Elder Dragons are ever seen creating minions. So a standard branded devourer cannot create branded eggs.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Seeing your thoughts, knew your memory is not reading your thoughts? What kind of fallacy is that?
Seeing your soul != seeing your thoughts
I was referring to the Sovereign’s statement.
The other Eye seeing into the Mad Sylvari’s mind – if such is true – would not mean the Sovereign Eye has – let alone used – this ability.
Because it stated your mentor’s name?
Seiran cannot be corrupted because she is sylvari.
WHAT? You are saying Jormag and the other dragons are different, then came back to use Jormag and the others as the example?
To quote Jeff Grubb: “They are similar, yet they are different.”
They have similarities – creating minions with hive minds, consuming magic, etc. – but they have differences – Jormag having a focus on mental abilities, seeking to convert before corrupting instead of enslaving by corrupting like other Elder Dragons, for one amongst many examples.
I went into more details on the hive mind later on.
Glint said WHY she support the mortals, not because she was cleansed.
Yes, because regaining free will does not mean she instantly turned good.
It’s pretty clear when looking at all evidences that Glint was put under the ritual, but she was still following Kralkatorrik despite having free will but decided to leave Kralkatorrik’s commands when reading both his and mortals’ minds.
The ritual gave her the ability to choose whom to follow. But it was not what made her a good guy.
In other words: it was the combination of the two – her unique telepathy and the ritual she was forced into – that made her an ally of the races.
WHAT? You are saying other dragons don’t use telepathy but then use Jormag as your example? You are lost. Also it showed something that against your point.
… Hive mind != telepathy
Okay, let me put it this way:
All EDs show to have a hive mind with its minions – to some degree.
But only Jormag uses telepathy on non-minions.
Do you understand now?
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
So other dragons champions did have a telepathic link with its minions, Great, it proved that I’m right
No, actually it proved you wrong.
You claimed before that the Sovereign Eye knew of the mentor because it read the PC’s mind. You claimed that there was no telepathic link to minions (aka a hive mind). You simply claimed that specific champions of each dragon had telepathic abilities like the Dragonspawn and Glint, marking it as non-unique to Glint.
I’m pointing out that the Sovereign Eye knew because risen figures knew, not by reading the players’ mind.
They reveal everything to Zhaitan, which means they had to tell him about it. If their might were directly linked with Zhaitan, Zhaitan would not have need its eyes to oversee the troops.
Also, the Risen doesn’t lose their way even when their champion leaders were killed. The Great Destroyer commands the destroyer troops, but the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan was not the commander of battle of Claw’s Island.
1) There is a difference between knowing thoughts/memories, and seeing what others see.
2) Risen do lose their way. Read Edge of Destiny and Sea of Sorrows. When Morgus Lethe and Captain Whiting are killed, the lesser risen flee into the see or fight uncoordinated, mindlessly scattering and doing their own thing. That’s losing your way.
No, we can see all the champions’ special ability was granted by their master, no matter they were created or corrupted.
Allow me to introduce you to Victurus the Shattered
“Victurus was a good man, and an excellent leader. He could take any dozen charr and make them a winning warband. If he still has control over his facilities, he could drum up an army in a heartbeat. "
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sentinel_Jaggedclaw
And we see him easily gathering an army.
Dragon minions retain their original abilities when corrupted. Some get altered, improved, or added upon. But they remain there in some form. Another example: Kitah Conjurer
It showed what it saw. Since there were other eyes existing at the same time. If it could see what others see as well.
Er… what?
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
So what’s the direction now? Let’s put aside those pointless details.
The topic is quite clear. Does the egg contain Kralkatorrik’s power?
No matter the champion was created or corrupted, their magic power came from their masters.
The corrupted champions: Nornbear, Undead captains, Eye of Zhaitan, Mouth of Zhaitan, they didn’t have spirit attack/dead ship control/life sucking blade/Eye Beam and see through others/Mouth attacks before they were turned into dragon champions. So it’s quite to assume that Glint’s power came from her master. Jeff Grubb never said that ONLY Jormag’s champion had such skill as it was not unique to it. He only said others dragon might not have “MIND AFFECTING POWER”, which Kralkatorrik clearly has.
So you’re saying ‘their mind isn’t altered, they just can’t control their body.’
That could be used to describe the situation… depending on interpretation, but only for the grunts of the minions. Low level minions appear to be mindless killing machine – killing anything that isn’t of their dragon minion type. This is shown by ambient actions as much as the lines I provided above (they will chase ambient creatures – rabbits etc.). But higher level minions – particularly champions – do have a level of self-decision (there was an interview, I’ll try to find it) and it is this self-decision that allows them to lead minions. But they fanatically revere their Elder Dragon.
What? When talking about champion ability, you were using low rank minions as example, but when we were talking about control you say low rank are different?
The fact that the first was considered means that the eggs in such a situation could last that long before hatching.
No proof of it. if it was pregnant it would have to lay it off somehow.
Says who? Why is it so obvious? Where is your source?
The change in shape is changing flesh to element. Can crystal, ice, fire, stone, and decayed flesh give birth?
I don’t think so.
The simpler explanation is “it corrupted the beings within the beings corrupted too.”
Not just that, it could give Risen a special eye, special mouth or even wings.
Yes, the destroyers proved it.
In Closing the Eye.
Because a raving lunatic is a liable source.Let’s say the Eye can read her mind. Okay, not too surprising, it uses mesmer abilities – so does a lot of risen. But I’d like to note that with capitalizing Dream, it’s not dreams, but the Dream of Dreams.
Yes if there is nothing against it.
So Zhaitan’s minion does have mind affecting power.
I didn’t say naming the mentor’s name and relation is not reliable. I said a risen, the entire group of them known for being liars throughout the game, is not very reliable. Especially when the risen in question claims that a sylvari – and remember, sylvari are immune to corruption – is a risen.
It told you your mentor’s name and said he/she is important.
Creating minions != creating offspring.
It’s a matter of debate for Glint, but it was a point of question as I brought it up from the beginning. But it should be noted:
Only champions and Elder Dragons are ever seen creating minions. So a standard branded devourer cannot create branded eggs.
It’s the same thing, what it created was its offspring and at the same time, minions.
The Destroyer Queen lay eggs and it hatches into destroyers.
It doesn’t use its power on living or lava rocks, it lay eggs from itself. How is it not creating offspring?
The Branded Devourer lay eggs and it hatches into branded hatchings.
The Dragon lay eggs and it hatches into Dragons.
How is it different? If the Elder Dragons could even let destroyers, minions that entirely made of lava and rock to lay offspring, how is it difficult to let once livings do it?
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gadd%27s_Last_Gizmo
This also proved that such Destroyer exists during the time of Gadd, it’s not some “new type”.
Seeing your soul != seeing your thoughts
Of course it is when it read your thoughts.
The other Eye seeing into the Mad Sylvari’s mind – if such is true – would not mean the Sovereign Eye has – let alone used – this ability.
It’s true as it stated. Especially the other eye used such power before.
Seiran cannot be corrupted because she is sylvari.
No, the point is that he knew that he/she is important to you and you lost him/her.
To quote Jeff Grubb: “They are similar, yet they are different.”
They have similarities – creating minions with hive minds, consuming magic, etc. – but they have differences – Jormag having a focus on mental abilities, seeking to convert before corrupting instead of enslaving by corrupting like other Elder Dragons, for one amongst many examples.
… Hive mind != telepathy
Okay, let me put it this way:
All EDs show to have a hive mind with its minions – to some degree.
But only Jormag uses telepathy on non-minions.
Ah no
Jeff’s words are
Jormag has definite mind affecting powers-others may not
You are twisting his words to support your argument.
He didn’t mention champions.
He didn’t mention telepathy.
He was talking about Jormag itself had mind affecting power. Does Kralkatorrik have it? Of course. His power could affect livings and turn them into loyal servants, not just the body, as it was showed in EoD.
So your whole “only Jormag has telepathy” is nonsense.
(edited by Slowpokeking.8720)
No, actually it proved you wrong.
You claimed before that the Sovereign Eye knew of the mentor because it read the PC’s mind. You claimed that there was no telepathic link to minions (aka a hive mind). You simply claimed that specific champions of each dragon had telepathic abilities like the Dragonspawn and Glint, marking it as non-unique to Glint.
Again you are using other dragons’ sample but saying only Jormag has telepathy?
I’m pointing out that the Sovereign Eye knew because risen figures knew, not by reading the players’ mind.
Ah, no. It does not command the troops and the other eyes could see through mind.
1) There is a difference between knowing thoughts/memories, and seeing what others see.
They “reveal” secrets, not directly link their mind with Zhaitan.
2) Risen do lose their way. Read Edge of Destiny and Sea of Sorrows. When Morgus Lethe and Captain Whiting are killed, the lesser risen flee into the see or fight uncoordinated, mindlessly scattering and doing their own thing. That’s losing your way.
No, I just checked. Even after the Indomitable was sinked, the remaining Dead ships were still causing a huge threat, taking down the patchwork ships and they had to use their tactic to fight the remaining ships. Especially the xebec ship.
Risen and Destroyers’ champions work in different ways.
]Allow me to introduce you to Victurus the Shattered
“Victurus was a good man, and an excellent leader. He could take any dozen charr and make them a winning warband. If he still has control over his facilities, he could drum up an army in a heartbeat. "
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sentinel_JaggedclawAnd we see him easily gathering an army.
Dragon minions retain their original abilities when corrupted. Some get altered, improved, or added upon. But they remain there in some form. Another example: Kitah Conjurer
The first one is not a champion, and it’s not some special ability like mind reading power.
No, again it’s NOT a champion, this one is using the magic he learned from life, he could use magic, not ability, different things. Its wraith ability was given by Zhaitan.
Again, tell me a champion that its special ability was not given by the dragon?
(edited by Slowpokeking.8720)
So your whole point was based on some words that entirely was twisted.
Jeff said
Jormag has definite mind affecting powers-others may not
Does Kralkatorrik have such power? Of course it did, directly on living creatures so he could turn them into minions. So what’s wrong for its champion to have the ability to read others’ thoughts?
The Eye also proved to affect the Sylvari’s mind and read her thoughts. Even though Zhaitan didn’t show much of this kind of ability.
(edited by Slowpokeking.8720)
In the new living story, we are hinted to use Glint’s egg to fight Mord. Basically it’s Kralkatorrik’s power, maybe it explained why the Mordems didn’t invade the Dragonbrand.
So that blue orb might indeed be the Deep Sea Dragon’s fragment.
That requires a bit of assuming, firstly we need to assume that Glint’s baby would be corrupted by Kralky’s, which isn’t such a big leap since we have examples in Orr of corruption being passed on this way. Then we need to assume that one Elder Dragon’s corruption can harm another Elder Dragon in some way, which we don’t really have much evidence of.
For all we know they might just throw the egg at Mordy and have the egg siphon some of his magic.
[quote=4541343;Slowpokeking.8720:
She was created by Kralkatorrik, of course she was part of his power. [/quote]
Was she created or corrupted? I’m going with corrupted for the time being,
A dragon champion isn’t solely created, they could be corrupted.
The only commonality among champions are that they’re stronger than the average minion, in the case of Zhaitan they demonstrate a bit more free will, but I don’t seem to remember seeing any talkative destroyers.
Glint had free will from the beginning. As it was told by herself.
Then how did she regain her free will?
Dragon minions don’t have free will.
Some of them do demonstrate autonomy, again looking at Zhaitan. All Zhaitan’s champions demonstrated some amount of autonomy, particularly at several points in the personal story we see that they’re responsible for some of the more tactical maneuvers of the Risen (Risen usually just swarm and kill), but at the end of the day what little free (or appearance their of) will they have is in service to their master.
I think some tasks can’t easily be performed by mindless minions, so some minions are given more intelligence.
I’m talking about the branded devourer’s eggs. Even the destroyers could also lay “eggpods”. They were made of lava and rocks by the dragon’s power.
Yeah, true enough. Although it was kinda made clear that it was something that was rather unique.
So your whole point was based on some words that entirely was twisted.
Jeff said
Jormag has definite mind affecting powers-others may not
Does Kralkatorrik have such power? Of course it did, directly on living creatures so he could turn them into minions. So what’s wrong for its champion to have the ability to read others’ thoughts?
The Eye also proved to affect the Sylvari’s mind and read her thoughts. Even though Zhaitan didn’t show much of this kind of ability.
I think for the most part EDs can corrupt in a wide variety of ways, but demonstrate a clear preference. Jormag can also forcibly corrupt like Zhaitan, and he can also construct like Kralky. They’re evil magical dragons, I’m sure they can do a lot of stuff.
Yeah we will have wait and see.
Also there were evidence that the Risen don’t share the same knowledge.
In the Whispers’ Plan, we cleared the Risen on a few ships and disguise ourselves as part of their navy. If they share a hive mind, they would have immediately realized that those ships weren’t part of them.
In SoS, Captain Whiting couldn’t recognize that Cobiah had been brought to him. Sethus and Tosh both knew it. Even the Risen in the same ship don’t share the same knowledge.
(edited by Slowpokeking.8720)
There is some evidence pointing towards Glint being corrupted rather than created. I’m not talking about what glint said or other sources, but specifically what we know of how Glint looks. It actually might tell us that she was infact corrupted.
We know how Kralkattorik corrupts the lesser beings, namely by turning their flesh into crystal. We also know that he the minions he creates are crystalline structures (like the shatterer) and not made of flesh and bone. As such one can deduct that Glint wasn’t created. Kralkattorik doesn’t have power over flesh and bone,he cannot create a creature made from those. He creates creatures from crystal and turns the creatures he corrupts into crystaline beings. Yes it’s circumstantial, but with what we know, it’s a pretty decent theory and very likely.
Touching upon that, we know that dragon minions have the capability to use gifts they already had from before they were turned. (ex are Scarlets genius mind, Zhaitan’s champion in Sea of Sorrows, etc) As such i believe her telepathy and being an oracle was something she already had, i assume this based from the fact that none of kralkatorrik’s minions have such capabilities. It’s unique to glint (and with that i don’t mean that other creatures don’t ahve that power, simply that, as a minion of kralky, she was the only known one to ahve that gift) I do believe she got something from kralkatorik though when she got turned, namely the ability to make crystal constructs (minions) of her own (as we see in the dragon’s lair mission in gw1) and possible the zephyrite crystals.
I also wanted to touch on what you said, slowepokeking, about the sylvari who told us about the forgotten, glint and the ritual that gave her free will. She isn’t jsut “some” sylvari, she’s been studying forgotten lore, forgotten ruins and their relation to glint. Yes you could argue that she didn’t translate the texts correctly, but that argument would be false, she succesfully performs the ritual the forgotten usd to free glint from kralky, which means that her findings about the forgotten and glint are known to be correct. It’s proven simply by the succes of this ritual. So i dismissing her as “justt some sylvari” is throwing away valid information about glint , information that’s very much important.
There is some evidence pointing towards Glint being corrupted rather than created. I’m not talking about what glint said or other sources, but specifically what we know of how Glint looks. It actually might tell us that she was infact corrupted.
We know how Kralkattorik corrupts the lesser beings, namely by turning their flesh into crystal. We also know that he the minions he creates are crystalline structures (like the shatterer) and not made of flesh and bone. As such one can deduct that Glint wasn’t created. Kralkattorik doesn’t have power over flesh and bone,he cannot create a creature made from those. He creates creatures from crystal and turns the creatures he corrupts into crystaline beings. Yes it’s circumstantial, but with what we know, it’s a pretty decent theory and very likely.
Touching upon that, we know that dragon minions have the capability to use gifts they already had from before they were turned. (ex are Scarlets genius mind, Zhaitan’s champion in Sea of Sorrows, etc) As such i believe her telepathy and being an oracle was something she already had, i assume this based from the fact that none of kralkatorrik’s minions have such capabilities. It’s unique to glint (and with that i don’t mean that other creatures don’t ahve that power, simply that, as a minion of kralky, she was the only known one to ahve that gift) I do believe she got something from kralkatorik though when she got turned, namely the ability to make crystal constructs (minions) of her own (as we see in the dragon’s lair mission in gw1) and possible the zephyrite crystals.
I also wanted to touch on what you said, slowepokeking, about the sylvari who told us about the forgotten, glint and the ritual that gave her free will. She isn’t jsut “some” sylvari, she’s been studying forgotten lore, forgotten ruins and their relation to glint. Yes you could argue that she didn’t translate the texts correctly, but that argument would be false, she succesfully performs the ritual the forgotten usd to free glint from kralky, which means that her findings about the forgotten and glint are known to be correct. It’s proven simply by the succes of this ritual. So i dismissing her as “justt some sylvari” is throwing away valid information about glint , information that’s very much important.
Kralkatorrik could turn flesh into crystal and stone.
All the known dragon champions’ special ability was granted by their master. Eye of Zhaitan were the only rank of Risen champion that can see through people’s mind as well, so the kings and the queens of Orr had such ability before their death? The nornbear was the only champion of Jormag who can hide in spirit world. So Svanir had such ability before his transformation? Not to say we knew Kralkatorrik less than Jormag and Zhaitan. Beside Glint, the Shatterer was the only champion we saw.
There is some evidence pointing towards Glint being corrupted rather than created. I’m not talking about what glint said or other sources, but specifically what we know of how Glint looks. It actually might tell us that she was infact corrupted.
We know how Kralkattorik corrupts the lesser beings, namely by turning their flesh into crystal. We also know that he the minions he creates are crystalline structures (like the shatterer) and not made of flesh and bone. As such one can deduct that Glint wasn’t created. Kralkattorik doesn’t have power over flesh and bone,he cannot create a creature made from those. He creates creatures from crystal and turns the creatures he corrupts into crystaline beings. Yes it’s circumstantial, but with what we know, it’s a pretty decent theory and very likely.
Touching upon that, we know that dragon minions have the capability to use gifts they already had from before they were turned. (ex are Scarlets genius mind, Zhaitan’s champion in Sea of Sorrows, etc) As such i believe her telepathy and being an oracle was something she already had, i assume this based from the fact that none of kralkatorrik’s minions have such capabilities. It’s unique to glint (and with that i don’t mean that other creatures don’t ahve that power, simply that, as a minion of kralky, she was the only known one to ahve that gift) I do believe she got something from kralkatorik though when she got turned, namely the ability to make crystal constructs (minions) of her own (as we see in the dragon’s lair mission in gw1) and possible the zephyrite crystals.
I also wanted to touch on what you said, slowepokeking, about the sylvari who told us about the forgotten, glint and the ritual that gave her free will. She isn’t jsut “some” sylvari, she’s been studying forgotten lore, forgotten ruins and their relation to glint. Yes you could argue that she didn’t translate the texts correctly, but that argument would be false, she succesfully performs the ritual the forgotten usd to free glint from kralky, which means that her findings about the forgotten and glint are known to be correct. It’s proven simply by the succes of this ritual. So i dismissing her as “justt some sylvari” is throwing away valid information about glint , information that’s very much important.
Kralkatorrik could turn flesh into crystal and stone.
All the known dragon champions’ special ability was granted by their master. Eye of Zhaitan were the only rank of Risen champion that can see through people’s mind as well, so the kings and the queens of Orr had such ability before their death? The nornbear was the only champion of Jormag who can hide in spirit world. So Svanir had such ability before his transformation? Not to say we knew Kralkatorrik less than Jormag and Zhaitan. Beside Glint, the Shatterer was the only champion we saw.
Like i mentioned in my post, Kralkatorrik can indeed turn flesh into crystal, but he cannot make flesh or bone. He can only trasfrom it into that which he controls. He has no control over the creatures flesh as in building a creating from scratch. All creatures we know of directly created by Kralkatorrik aren’t made of flesh and bone, but from crystals.
That’s why I believe glint was corrupted not created. For Kralkatorrik to be able to create glint, he would have to buidl actual flesh and bone, which he can’t.
We have evidence that prominent features of champions before corruption will be present still after corruption. Take Scarlet for example, it wasn’t Mordremoth that gave her the genius of building these amazing constructs and it wasn’t Mordremoth that taught herhow to use those gifts. She was already a genius, mordremoth simply made that what made her special work for him by corrupting her.
Zhaitan’s champion Morgus Lethe was already a knowledgable pirate, he knew the seas and how to command ships, that was something inherent to him, it wasn’t a gift of Zhaitan, it was merely used by the Elder dragon by corrupting the norn and making him an asset to him
But champions do get gifts from their respective Elder dragon, namely the ability to create minions. While Morgus lethe’s stratigical capabilities were already a part of him before corruption, the ability to make more risen wasn’t, as such it was a gift granted by Zhaitan. With respects to glint, her telepathy and ability as an oracle was already part of her while the ability to create more crystal constructs was a gift from her master after being corrupted.
All the known dragon champions’ special ability was granted by their master. Eye of Zhaitan were the only rank of Risen champion that can see through people’s mind as well, so the kings and the queens of Orr had such ability before their death? The nornbear was the only champion of Jormag who can hide in spirit world. So Svanir had such ability before his transformation? Not to say we knew Kralkatorrik less than Jormag and Zhaitan. Beside Glint, the Shatterer was the only champion we saw.
Actually we don’t know what gifts the royal family of Orr had so therefor it’s impossible to say whether it was gifted to them by Zhaitan or inherent to them. We do know that Orr was a powerfull and magical place due to the elder ragon sleeping below and that the citizens of orr were able to tap in that magic, making them more capable magic users.
About the nornbear, we know that there are norn who can enter the mists. So it’s not at all a leap to think that Jormag would corrupt Svanir to use that ability. The norn can enter the mists with the help of the spirits of the wilds (we know this of the personal story of the norn), it’s the same way they evoke their werebear/wolf/leopard/etc state. By corrupting Svanir, he was stuck into his bear form, like a forced connection to the bear spirit, granting him the ability to jump into the mists.
We know Jormag is looking for a way into the mists, so why would a creature who is looking for a window into the mists be able to grant that ability to his champions when he himself can’t even do that?
Like i mentioned in my post, Kralkatorrik can indeed turn flesh into crystal, but he cannot make flesh or bone. He can only trasfrom it into that which he controls. He has no control over the creatures flesh as in building a creating from scratch. All creatures we know of directly created by Kralkatorrik aren’t made of flesh and bone, but from crystals.
That’s why I believe glint was corrupted not created. For Kralkatorrik to be able to create glint, he would have to buidl actual flesh and bone, which he can’t.
We have evidence that prominent features of champions before corruption will be present still after corruption. Take Scarlet for example, it wasn’t Mordremoth that gave her the genius of building these amazing constructs and it wasn’t Mordremoth that taught herhow to use those gifts. She was already a genius, mordremoth simply made that what made her special work for him by corrupting her.
Zhaitan’s champion Morgus Lethe was already a knowledgable pirate, he knew the seas and how to command ships, that was something inherent to him, it wasn’t a gift of Zhaitan, it was merely used by the Elder dragon by corrupting the norn and making him an asset to him
But champions do get gifts from their respective Elder dragon, namely the ability to create minions. While Morgus lethe’s stratigical capabilities were already a part of him before corruption, the ability to make more risen wasn’t, as such it was a gift granted by Zhaitan. With respects to glint, her telepathy and ability as an oracle was already part of her while the ability to create more crystal constructs was a gift from her master after being corrupted.
Actually, we don’t know much about Kralkatorrik’s ability, he just awoke and almost got killed then went to rest.
That’s knowledge, not special ability, different thing. The Risen Captain could control Dead Ship, that’s ability.
(edited by Slowpokeking.8720)
Actually we don’t know what gifts the royal family of Orr had so therefor it’s impossible to say whether it was gifted to them by Zhaitan or inherent to them. We do know that Orr was a powerfull and magical place due to the elder ragon sleeping below and that the citizens of orr were able to tap in that magic, making them more capable magic users.
About the nornbear, we know that there are norn who can enter the mists. So it’s not at all a leap to think that Jormag would corrupt Svanir to use that ability. The norn can enter the mists with the help of the spirits of the wilds (we know this of the personal story of the norn), it’s the same way they evoke their werebear/wolf/leopard/etc state. By corrupting Svanir, he was stuck into his bear form, like a forced connection to the bear spirit, granting him the ability to jump into the mists.
We know Jormag is looking for a way into the mists, so why would a creature who is looking for a window into the mists be able to grant that ability to his champions when he himself can’t even do that?
What? You are saying the kings and queens of Orr could read thoughts? If King Reza had such ability he would not have been tricked by Vizer and that disguised demon. It’s getting ridiculous. It’s a powerful and magical place does not mean its people have special ability.
The Havroun can open portal, they had to rely on the spirit’s bless. Svanir was not one of those, he worships the dragon since he approached it. Also, this happened 250 years later, in Svanir’s time, they could only use Wolf spirit to help track it.
Actually, leadership is an ability , it’s not a magical one, but it’s still an ability and not one that everyone has. Like Scarlet, her technical prowess and general genius mind is her ability.
But we do know about Kralkatorriks abilities, he may not be incredibly active right now. All creatures Kralkatorrik are known to ahve created were crystal constructs. He cannot create living flesh out of thin air, none of the Dragon’s can. So Glint being a creature made of flesh and bone that shows physical signs of crystal corruption, would proof that she indeed wasn’t created.
also:
Ability
- possession of the means or skill to do something
- talent, skill or proficiency in a particular area
There is no reason why skills such as those of Morgus Lethe shouldn’t be counted as abilities. Especially for Elder dragons who want to push forward will need their champions to have such knowledge, to ahve that ability. And its not one that they themselves grant them, it’s something innate to the creature before corruption that sticks around afterwards
Actually, leadership is an ability , it’s not a magical one, but it’s still an ability and not one that everyone has. Like Scarlet, her technical prowess and general genius mind is her ability.
But we do know about Kralkatorriks abilities, he may not be incredibly active right now. All creatures Kralkatorrik are known to ahve created were crystal constructs. He cannot create living flesh out of thin air, none of the Dragon’s can. So Glint being a creature made of flesh and bone that shows physical signs of crystal corruption, would proof that she indeed wasn’t created.
also:
Ability
- possession of the means or skill to do something
- talent, skill or proficiency in a particular areaThere is no reason why skills such as those of Morgus Lethe shouldn’t be counted as abilities. Especially for Elder dragons who want to push forward will need their champions to have such knowledge, to ahve that ability. And its not one that they themselves grant them, it’s something innate to the creature before corruption that sticks around afterwards
We don’t know much about it. Also, Branded creature’s flesh turns into stone.
It’s experience, not special magical ability. Unlike Glint’s telepathy, it can’t be learned.
Because it’s some experience in their life time, which could be learned and experience, telepathy is different. Like we say Glint is smart and wise, had a lot of knowledge, but that’s different from her ability of telepathy. Morgus Lethe’s speical ability
Life sucking blade
Command Deadships
Turn others into Risen up killing them.
All of these were granted by Zhaitan, he had none of these in his life time.
Actually we don’t know what gifts the royal family of Orr had so therefor it’s impossible to say whether it was gifted to them by Zhaitan or inherent to them. We do know that Orr was a powerfull and magical place due to the elder ragon sleeping below and that the citizens of orr were able to tap in that magic, making them more capable magic users.
About the nornbear, we know that there are norn who can enter the mists. So it’s not at all a leap to think that Jormag would corrupt Svanir to use that ability. The norn can enter the mists with the help of the spirits of the wilds (we know this of the personal story of the norn), it’s the same way they evoke their werebear/wolf/leopard/etc state. By corrupting Svanir, he was stuck into his bear form, like a forced connection to the bear spirit, granting him the ability to jump into the mists.
We know Jormag is looking for a way into the mists, so why would a creature who is looking for a window into the mists be able to grant that ability to his champions when he himself can’t even do that?What? You are saying the kings and queens of Orr could read thoughts? If King Reza had such ability he would not have been tricked by Vizer and that disguised demon. It’s getting ridiculous. It’s a powerful and magical place does not mean its people have special ability.
The Havroun can open portal, they had to rely on the spirit’s bless. Svanir was not one of those, he worships the dragon since he approached it. Also, this happened 250 years later, in Svanir’s time, they could only use Wolf spirit to help track it.
Telepathy and mind reading aren’t “out of this world” abilities. Mesmers are pretty well versed in that. Queen Jennah even managed to look into Kralkatorrik’s mind in EoD. So yes, there is a defiante possibility that the royal family could ahve ahd the abilty to read thoughts, but the msitake you make is that tehy would use this all the time, that this is something that is always turned on. Queen Jennah can read thoughts, that doesn’t mean she reads the thoughts of every person she ever meets, that doesn’t mean she uses that power on anyone everywhere. These aren’t special abilities, these’s are realistic abilities that several otehrs and even current characters have. No idea why you find this so strange.
Not njsut Havroun, we know of Sons of Svanir entering the msits, we fought them. Norn , be it an innate ability that some have that’s being linked to the Spirits of the Wild or it is an ability that they have from their connection to them (the fact that svanir was trapped in his norn bear form and didn’t remain a regular norn after being corrupted points to him being forced into this state. Possibly for this exact ability.
Can you explain what the process of tracking Svanir has to do with this?
Actually, leadership is an ability , it’s not a magical one, but it’s still an ability and not one that everyone has. Like Scarlet, her technical prowess and general genius mind is her ability.
But we do know about Kralkatorriks abilities, he may not be incredibly active right now. All creatures Kralkatorrik are known to ahve created were crystal constructs. He cannot create living flesh out of thin air, none of the Dragon’s can. So Glint being a creature made of flesh and bone that shows physical signs of crystal corruption, would proof that she indeed wasn’t created.
also:
Ability
- possession of the means or skill to do something
- talent, skill or proficiency in a particular areaThere is no reason why skills such as those of Morgus Lethe shouldn’t be counted as abilities. Especially for Elder dragons who want to push forward will need their champions to have such knowledge, to ahve that ability. And its not one that they themselves grant them, it’s something innate to the creature before corruption that sticks around afterwards
We don’t know much about it. Also, Branded creature’s flesh turns into stone.
It’s experience, not special magical ability. Unlike Glint’s telepathy, it can’t be learned.
Because it’s some experience in their life time, which could be learned and experience, telepathy is different. Like we say Glint is smart and wise, had a lot of knowledge, but that’s different from her ability of telepathy. Morgus Lethe’s speical ability
Life sucking blade
Command Deadships
Turn others into Risen up killing them.All of these were granted by Zhaitan, he had none of these in his life time.
That’s my point, he turns them into crystals, that doesn’t show control over flesh, that shows corruption of flesh, hence my point that it points towards Glint having been corrupted. Point me to a creature that was created from nothing, that has flesh and bones. There aren’t any. Because he cannot control flesh, we know this.
Its an ability , it’s a reason why they were chosen to be champions. It doesn’t ahve to be magical all the time. And i’m not saying that the elder dragons don’t give gifts to their champions, i already said they did in my first post when i spoke of glint and her capability to make crystaline minions. But they do reserve that part in which they excelled even after corruption.
Telepathy and mind reading aren’t “out of this world” abilities. Mesmers are pretty well versed in that. Queen Jennah even managed to look into Kralkatorrik’s mind in EoD. So yes, there is a defiante possibility that the royal family could ahve ahd the abilty to read thoughts, but the msitake you make is that tehy would use this all the time, that this is something that is always turned on. Queen Jennah can read thoughts, that doesn’t mean she reads the thoughts of every person she ever meets, that doesn’t mean she uses that power on anyone everywhere. These aren’t special abilities, these’s are realistic abilities that several otehrs and even current characters have. No idea why you find this so strange.
Not njsut Havroun, we know of Sons of Svanir entering the msits, we fought them. Norn , be it an innate ability that some have that’s being linked to the Spirits of the Wild or it is an ability that they have from their connection to them (the fact that svanir was trapped in his norn bear form and didn’t remain a regular norn after being corrupted points to him being forced into this state. Possibly for this exact ability.
Can you explain what the process of tracking Svanir has to do with this?
Not all king or queens are mesmers. We can see before Jennah, many of the Krytan rulers were not mesmers. We can also see that quite a few Risen princes don’t have mesmer skills. The Eye could even read into Sylvari’s dream. If Telepathy is not a big deal even to mortal humans, then how is Glint having telepathy “unique” and couldn’t be given by Kralkatorrik, who knew and devour magic much much more than humans?
Sons of Svanir had to rely on others’ ability to enter the mists. The guide even said that the Svanir shaman could not travel into mist world by themselves. Not to say Svanir was just a hunter, not a shaman.
Dragon has no true shaman, no havroun. Those who follow it do not have the ability to go into the Mists on its behalf, nor do they have the gifts norn expect to see in shamans of the Spirits of the Wild.
Actually it was made clear in the guide
Havrouns have the unique ability to physically cross into the Mists and go to the Hall of the Spirits, where the brave live forever.
Only Havroun Norn could do it. Was Svanir a Havroun? NO.
Only Havroun Norn could do it. Was Svanir a Havroun? NO.
How do you know?
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
That’s my point, he turns them into crystals, that doesn’t show control over flesh, that shows corruption of flesh, hence my point that it points towards Glint having been corrupted. Point me to a creature that was created from nothing, that has flesh and bones. There aren’t any. Because he cannot control flesh, we know this.
Its an ability , it’s a reason why they were chosen to be champions. It doesn’t ahve to be magical all the time. And i’m not saying that the elder dragons don’t give gifts to their champions, i already said they did in my first post when i spoke of glint and her capability to make crystaline minions. But they do reserve that part in which they excelled even after corruption.
Into stones and crystals. Those flesh were actually stones.
No, it’s not magical or unique power. We are talking about telepathy, a special magic ability, all of Morgus Lethe’s magical ability was given by Zhaitan.
How do you know?
He was a hunter, not even a shaman. It was told in EoD.
He was a hunter, not even a shaman. It was told in EoD.
But how do you know the powers were unique to shamans? He was very clearly able to do it. And that was long before Jormag even woke up.
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Telepathy and mind reading aren’t “out of this world” abilities. Mesmers are pretty well versed in that. Queen Jennah even managed to look into Kralkatorrik’s mind in EoD. So yes, there is a defiante possibility that the royal family could ahve ahd the abilty to read thoughts, but the msitake you make is that tehy would use this all the time, that this is something that is always turned on. Queen Jennah can read thoughts, that doesn’t mean she reads the thoughts of every person she ever meets, that doesn’t mean she uses that power on anyone everywhere. These aren’t special abilities, these’s are realistic abilities that several otehrs and even current characters have. No idea why you find this so strange.
Not njsut Havroun, we know of Sons of Svanir entering the msits, we fought them. Norn , be it an innate ability that some have that’s being linked to the Spirits of the Wild or it is an ability that they have from their connection to them (the fact that svanir was trapped in his norn bear form and didn’t remain a regular norn after being corrupted points to him being forced into this state. Possibly for this exact ability.
Can you explain what the process of tracking Svanir has to do with this?
Not all king or queens are mesmers. We can see before Jennah, many of the Krytan rulers were not mesmers. We can also see that quite a few Risen princes don’t have mesmer skills. The Eye could even read into Sylvari’s dream. If Telepathy is not a big deal even to mortal humans, then how is Glint having telepathy “unique” and couldn’t be given by Kralkatorrik, who knew and devour magic much much more than humans?
Sons of Svanir had to rely on others’ ability to enter the mists. The guide even said that the Svanir shaman could not travel into mist world by themselves. Not to say Svanir was just a hunter, not a shaman.
Dragon has no true shaman, no havroun. Those who follow it do not have the ability to go into the Mists on its behalf, nor do they have the gifts norn expect to see in shamans of the Spirits of the Wild.
Actually it was made clear in the guide
Havrouns have the unique ability to physically cross into the Mists and go to the Hall of the Spirits, where the brave live forever.
Only Havroun Norn could do it. Was Svanir a Havroun? NO.
I never said that all kings and queens were mesmers, i simply used an example. My point is that telepathy isn’t incredibaly super rare, and considering that they could tap into the magic released by Zhaitan, it’s possible that magical abilities were more common amongts Orr citizens.
I’m afraid you read an earlier post i made wrong, i never called telepathy as a power unique, I called glint, as a minion of Kralkatorrik, to be unique in her gift of telepathy. Meaning, she is the only known minion/champion to have this gift, and we don’t even know if Kralkatorrik himself posseses that gift in the first place.
If jormag was the one to give the svanir the power to travel the mists, than answer me this: why is Jormag capable of giving others the ability to traverse the mists when he himself is not?
What i was trying to point out, is that , while shaman’s are so much more connected to the spirits than hunters, hence why the shaman are capable of opening the portal. It’s their connection to the spirits that offers them that, and there is nothing that says that jsut because they choose to worship a spirit that doesn’t necessarily exist, that ability just disappears.
We knew very little of Svanir as a norn before he was turned. So we don’t know how connected he was to the spirits of the wild, and it’s a possibility that by forcing svanir into his bear form that that connection was made stronger , giving him acces to said ability.
That’s my point, he turns them into crystals, that doesn’t show control over flesh, that shows corruption of flesh, hence my point that it points towards Glint having been corrupted. Point me to a creature that was created from nothing, that has flesh and bones. There aren’t any. Because he cannot control flesh, we know this.
Its an ability , it’s a reason why they were chosen to be champions. It doesn’t ahve to be magical all the time. And i’m not saying that the elder dragons don’t give gifts to their champions, i already said they did in my first post when i spoke of glint and her capability to make crystaline minions. But they do reserve that part in which they excelled even after corruption.
Into stones and crystals. Those flesh were actually stones.
No, it’s not magical or unique power. We are talking about telepathy, a special magic ability, all of Morgus Lethe’s magical ability was given by Zhaitan.
You’re not disproving my point by saying “into sones and crystals” you’re jsut proving that his corruption takes that form, it says nothing at all about the idea (which is compeltely unfounded) that Kralkatorrik could somehow create a flesh and blood creature out of nowhere. He does NOT control flesh, he is able to corrupt it, but that’s not control, he cannot mold flesh into desired shapes, he turns it into crystal and stone.
We are talking about innate abilites that their champions possesed before being corrupted. Magical or otherwise.
I never said that all kings and queens were mesmers, i simply used an example. My point is that telepathy isn’t incredibaly super rare, and considering that they could tap into the magic released by Zhaitan, it’s possible that magical abilities were more common amongts Orr citizens.
I’m afraid you read an earlier post i made wrong, i never called telepathy as a power unique, I called glint, as a minion of Kralkatorrik, to be unique in her gift of telepathy. Meaning, she is the only known minion/champion to have this gift, and we don’t even know if Kralkatorrik himself posseses that gift in the first place.
If jormag was the one to give the svanir the power to travel the mists, than answer me this: why is Jormag capable of giving others the ability to traverse the mists when he himself is not?
What i was trying to point out, is that , while shaman’s are so much more connected to the spirits than hunters, hence why the shaman are capable of opening the portal. It’s their connection to the spirits that offers them that, and there is nothing that says that jsut because they choose to worship a spirit that doesn’t necessarily exist, that ability just disappears.
We knew very little of Svanir as a norn before he was turned. So we don’t know how connected he was to the spirits of the wild, and it’s a possibility that by forcing svanir into his bear form that that connection was made stronger , giving him acces to said ability.
It’s unique ability to Zhaitan’s minions, we don’t see other minions have such ability. It’s also the common ability of the Eyes of Zhaitan. Do you have a proof that King Reza was a mesmer? If no then it’s obviously granted by Zhaitan.
Of course it’s unique. The Dragons have a champion for a special task. Just like the Zhaitan’s Eye(Seeing through mind and Eye beams), Mouth(Devour Magic), Risen Captain(Control Dead Ship) all have unique abilities compare to other minions, but these were granted by Zhaitan, not their own. Plus beside Glint we only saw the Shatterer as the Branded champion and knew little about it.
He was just a hunter, not even a shaman. If he had strong such special ability before transformation they would have found it out that it was him from the beginning.
Actually, Jormag could touch the spirit world in some way at least. It even killed a few Spirits of the Wild
There is also a small group of spirits that are revered with great sorrow. These “lost” Spirits of the Wild remained behind to fight Jormag. Owl, Dolyak (also known as Ox), Eagle, and Wolverine are lauded for their bravery and their sacrifice. Owl’s death is known to the norn—the last Havroun of Owl confirmed it—but as to the final outcome of Dolyak, Eagle, and Wolverine, even the shamans do not know. No norn has been blessed to serve as havroun to those spirits in generations, but then, it is not uncommon for weaker spirits (or those who are not close to this world) to be without a havroun. All that is truly known is that these spirits held the line in the far North and, by their bravery, aided the norn in escaping Jormag’s claws.
(edited by Slowpokeking.8720)
You’re not disproving my point by saying “into sones and crystals” you’re jsut proving that his corruption takes that form, it says nothing at all about the idea (which is compeltely unfounded) that Kralkatorrik could somehow create a flesh and blood creature out of nowhere. He does NOT control flesh, he is able to corrupt it, but that’s not control, he cannot mold flesh into desired shapes, he turns it into crystal and stone.
We are talking about innate abilites that their champions possesed before being corrupted. Magical or otherwise.
Actually we don’t know much about it. It only awoke for a little while then went to take a rest.
We are talking about special magical abilities, not experience and knowledge.
Of course it’s unique. The Dragons have a champion for a special task. Just like the Zhaitan’s Eye(Seeing through mind and Eye beams), Mouth(Devour Magic), Risen Captain(Control Dead Ship) all have unique abilities compare to other minions, but these were granted by Zhaitan, not their own.
So, what is Tequatl’s special ability as granted by Zhaitan then? Because it is quite clearly one of its most powerful champions.
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Of course it’s unique. The Dragons have a champion for a special task. Just like the Zhaitan’s Eye(Seeing through mind and Eye beams), Mouth(Devour Magic), Risen Captain(Control Dead Ship) all have unique abilities compare to other minions, but these were granted by Zhaitan, not their own.
So, what is Tequatl’s special ability as granted by Zhaitan then? Because it is quite clearly one of its most powerful champions.
Its power to corrupt, the tendrils and other death/shadow related skills were clearly given by Zhaitan.
It’s unique ability to Zhaitan’s minions, we don’t see other minions have such ability. It’s also the common ability of the Eyes of Zhaitan. Do you have a proof that King Reza was a mesmer? If no then it’s obviously granted by Zhaitan.
You are not gaining any credibility by claiming absence of proof to be proof of absence. On the contrary.
Also, Zhaitan’s minions are known to be liars and to use psychological attacks to shake their foes. Considering Zhaitan knew everything those it corrupted knew, and that the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan was one of it’s most valuable pawns, it isn’t very difficult to imagine Zhaitan giving specific information to the Eye to be used against Zhaitan’s most prominent enemy.
Simply put, Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan is the last being you should believe.
Only fools and heroes charge in without a plan.
It’s unique ability to Zhaitan’s minions, we don’t see other minions have such ability. It’s also the common ability of the Eyes of Zhaitan. Do you have a proof that King Reza was a mesmer? If no then it’s obviously granted by Zhaitan.
Of course it’s unique. The Dragons have a champion for a special task. Just like the Zhaitan’s Eye(Seeing through mind and Eye beams), Mouth(Devour Magic), Risen Captain(Control Dead Ship) all have unique abilities compare to other minions, but these were granted by Zhaitan, not their own. Plus beside Glint we only saw the Shatterer as the Branded champion and knew little about it.
He was just a hunter, not even a shaman. If he had strong such special ability before transformation they would have found it out that it was him from the beginning.
Actually, Jormag could touch the spirit world in some way at least. It even killed a few Spirits of the Wild
There is also a small group of spirits that are revered with great sorrow. These “lost” Spirits of the Wild remained behind to fight Jormag. Owl, Dolyak (also known as Ox), Eagle, and Wolverine are lauded for their bravery and their sacrifice. Owl’s death is known to the norn—the last Havroun of Owl confirmed it—but as to the final outcome of Dolyak, Eagle, and Wolverine, even the shamans do not know. No norn has been blessed to serve as havroun to those spirits in generations, but then, it is not uncommon for weaker spirits (or those who are not close to this world) to be without a havroun. All that is truly known is that these spirits held the line in the far North and, by their bravery, aided the norn in escaping Jormag’s claws.
Are you talking about Telepathy being unique to Zhaitan’s minions? *cough*Glint*cough*. That is a terrible point, i hope you do realize that. No we odn’t have proof he was a mesmer, but we don’t have anything proving he isn’t , so i could say the same thing to you.
Ahem, Glint wan’t a champion anymore after he awoke, if he needed it for diversity, why didn’t he replace her with a different champion who could use telepathy? Alsothere are multiple eyes, there are multiple mouths, so you’re kind of disproving the point you’re trying to make.
What do you mean? “foudn out it was him from the beginning” ? Jora was there when he was corrupted, we aLREADY knew it was him because there was an actual witness
Yes Jormag ate the Owl spirit, but i think you’re forgeting something important. The spirits were actiely holding back Jormag to protect the norn, while bear/wolf/etc were guiding them to safety, this means they weren’t in the spiritworld at that time. They were in Tyria interacting and helping the norn.
see the above, it doesn’t show that he reached into the spirit world, these spirits were actvely, in tyria, protecting the Norn.
Actually we don’t know much about it. It only awoke for a little while then went to take a rest.
We are talking about special magical abilities, not experience and knowledge.
While Kralkatorrik surely isn’t the most wellknown dragon, we do know how he works, because we’ve seen it. We know how he corrupts and we know that when he creates a minion it’s made of crystal. This is all proof that is shown in the game, and all that is being ignored for a “what if” statement?
We were talking about creature being able to keep their innate abilities after corruption, you’re the one who wants to make it only magical, because including all abilities magical and non-magical doesn’t support your point, hence it gets thrown out (jsut like the sylvari in arah gets ignored despite her knowledge having been proven correct
You are not gaining any credibility by claiming absence of proof to be proof of absence. On the contrary.
Also, Zhaitan’s minions are known to be liars and to use psychological attacks to shake their foes. Considering Zhaitan knew everything those it corrupted knew, and that the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan was one of it’s most valuable pawns, it isn’t very difficult to imagine Zhaitan giving specific information to the Eye to be used against Zhaitan’s most prominent enemy.
Simply put, Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan is the last being you should believe.
If we don’t have any evidence then it’s given by Zhaitan. Also the princes proved that the Orr royal families weren’t all mesmers.
Zhaitan doesn’t know everything unless they reveal it to him. And its minions were not connected themselves.
Whiting was an example, he didn’t even know Cobiah was brought to him, that were seen by his own crew.
In the personal quest we took the lighthouse and misdirect the light, but the Dead Ships still follow it, why didn’t Zhaitan alert them? We took the ships and went to the shore, Zhaitan didn’t know until its eye saw us.
Another Eye also showed the ability to see through the scholar’s mind and dream.
While Kralkatorrik surely isn’t the most wellknown dragon, we do know how he works, because we’ve seen it. We know how he corrupts and we know that when he creates a minion it’s made of crystal. This is all proof that is shown in the game, and all that is being ignored for a “what if” statement?
We were talking about creature being able to keep their innate abilities after corruption, you’re the one who wants to make it only magical, because including all abilities magical and non-magical doesn’t support your point, hence it gets thrown out (jsut like the sylvari in arah gets ignored despite her knowledge having been proven correct
We know how he corrupts but not sure could he make flesh or not. Like Primordus was confirmed to be able to affect the living, but we didn’t see it in game. Also if you think “what if” is not reliable, then why did you say the kings and queens of Orr could see through mind? There is 0 proof of that.
We are talking about telepathy, of course it’s magical and unique, just like the Risen Captain’s ability to control ships.
You are not gaining any credibility by claiming absence of proof to be proof of absence. On the contrary.
Also, Zhaitan’s minions are known to be liars and to use psychological attacks to shake their foes. Considering Zhaitan knew everything those it corrupted knew, and that the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan was one of it’s most valuable pawns, it isn’t very difficult to imagine Zhaitan giving specific information to the Eye to be used against Zhaitan’s most prominent enemy.
Simply put, Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan is the last being you should believe.
If we don’t have any evidence then it’s given by Zhaitan. Also the princes proved that the Orr royal families weren’t all mesmers.
Zhaitan doesn’t know everything unless they reveal it to him. And its minions were not connected themselves.
Whiting was an example, he didn’t even know Cobiah was brought to him, that were seen by his own crew.
In the personal quest we took the lighthouse and misdirect the light, but the Dead Ships still follow it, why didn’t Zhaitan alert them? We took the ships and went to the shore, Zhaitan didn’t know until its eye saw us.
Another Eye also showed the ability to see through the scholar’s mind and dream.
No, if you don’t ahve any evidence it’s origins is unknown, absence of proof does mean one option is undoubtedly the truth, it means that neither are proven and thus neither can be stated as fact.
I never said they all were.
Here’s where you make the wrong assumptions, you assume that zhaitan knowing everything his undead know means that the connection works in revers aka zhaitan knows everything the undead know thus the undead know everything zhaitan knows. This is simply not through, and it was stated ingame that zhaiten does infact know everything his corrupted minion knows, which is why he knows to strike the vigil/OoW/Priory respectively after killing (and supposedly corrupting ) mentor (with the exception of Seiran which was clearly an oversight made by anet since sylvari cannot be corrupted)
Because the link doesn’t work in two ways, he cannot alarm his troops from miles away.
Are you talking about Telepathy being unique to Zhaitan’s minions? *cough*Glint*cough*. That is a terrible point, i hope you do realize that. No we odn’t have proof he was a mesmer, but we don’t have anything proving he isn’t , so i could say the same thing to you.
Ahem, Glint wan’t a champion anymore after he awoke, if he needed it for diversity, why didn’t he replace her with a different champion who could use telepathy? Alsothere are multiple eyes, there are multiple mouths, so you’re kind of disproving the point you’re trying to make.
What do you mean? “foudn out it was him from the beginning” ? Jora was there when he was corrupted, we aLREADY knew it was him because there was an actual witness
Yes Jormag ate the Owl spirit, but i think you’re forgeting something important. The spirits were actiely holding back Jormag to protect the norn, while bear/wolf/etc were guiding them to safety, this means they weren’t in the spiritworld at that time. They were in Tyria interacting and helping the norn.
see the above, it doesn’t show that he reached into the spirit world, these spirits were actvely, in tyria, protecting the Norn.
No, I’m saying that it was unique to Zhaitan’s minions. I don’t have to prove a “no” because there was nothing the disprove. We already know that the Orrian families were not all mesmers, so it’s not likely all of them have such ability.
Because she betrayed her master? The Dragonspawn was killed by EoD but we don’t see Jormag created another as well.
It’s the same rank of the champions. Also unlike Zhaitan, we don’t know about all the champions of Kralkatorrik.
If they could teleport through the portal, Jormag could not harm them since they could escape when the dragon was close then come out.
Where did it say that Jormag could not go through the Mist? Jormag’s minions were able to invade the Mist and send minions throughout the Frozen Portal from the Mist.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Destroy_the_corrupted_portals_summoning_creatures_from_the_mists
We know how he corrupts but not sure could he make flesh or not. Like Primordus was confirmed to be able to affect the living, but we didn’t see it in game. Also if you think “what if” is not reliable, then why did you say the kings and queens of Orr could see through mind? There is 0 proof of that.
We are talking about telepathy, of course it’s magical and unique, just like the Risen Captain’s ability to control ships.
Yet we know Primordus can, it was told, because it had happend, not in our view, but it had happend thus had been recorded. There ahs been no reports at all of a newly created being made of flesh and bone from kralkatorrik. This comparison is failed from the start. We see the creatures he’s made and tehy are only made of stone and crystal. There is no proof whatsoever that suddenly the crystal dragon is able to mold flesh, because he can’t. Otherwise it would ahve been noticed by someone and written down, as was done with primordus.
Because i don’t state “what if” as a fact, i state it as one of the possibilities while you argue that it cannot be anything else. “What if” is not the same as “defiantely can’t be anything but this” that’s the difference between when i use it and you use it.
No we weren’t, we were talking about dragon champions holding on to abilites they already possessed before corruption, underwhich glint’s telepathy.
No, if you don’t ahve any evidence it’s origins is unknown, absence of proof does mean one option is undoubtedly the truth, it means that neither are proven and thus neither can be stated as fact.
I never said they all were.
Here’s where you make the wrong assumptions, you assume that zhaitan knowing everything his undead know means that the connection works in revers aka zhaitan knows everything the undead know thus the undead know everything zhaitan knows. This is simply not through, and it was stated ingame that zhaiten does infact know everything his corrupted minion knows, which is why he knows to strike the vigil/OoW/Priory respectively after killing (and supposedly corrupting ) mentor (with the exception of Seiran which was clearly an oversight made by anet since sylvari cannot be corrupted)
Because the link doesn’t work in two ways, he cannot alarm his troops from miles away.
If it doesn’t have any support but “maybe”, of course it’s not a valuable arugment.
We’ve seen that his champion, Captain Whiting even didn’t know everything his crew knew, why the Eye would know about our mentor’s loss and our relationship when it’s guarding the source in Orr all along?
He can as long as their was a champion nearby. So you are saying he could not alert his own navy after a long while(ship misdirected, fight began, we reached the shore of Orr), but chose to tell the eye about our mentor’s loss in a little while, after we entered the place and fought the Eye?
Yet we know Primordus can, it was told, because it had happend, not in our view, but it had happend thus had been recorded. There ahs been no reports at all of a newly created being made of flesh and bone from kralkatorrik. This comparison is failed from the start. We see the creatures he’s made and tehy are only made of stone and crystal. There is no proof whatsoever that suddenly the crystal dragon is able to mold flesh, because he can’t. Otherwise it would ahve been noticed by someone and written down, as was done with primordus.
Because i don’t state “what if” as a fact, i state it as one of the possibilities while you argue that it cannot be anything else. “What if” is not the same as “defiantely can’t be anything but this” that’s the difference between when i use it and you use it.
No we weren’t, we were talking about dragon champions holding on to abilites they already possessed before corruption, underwhich glint’s telepathy.
Then there is no proof of Reza and all the kings being mesmers and powerful enough to see through others’ mind as well. Plus the princes already proved that not all Orrian Royal members were mesmers. The other two nations’ royal line also suggested that it’s very unlikely that they were.
We are talking about magical abilities.
You are not gaining any credibility by claiming absence of proof to be proof of absence. On the contrary.
Also, Zhaitan’s minions are known to be liars and to use psychological attacks to shake their foes. Considering Zhaitan knew everything those it corrupted knew, and that the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan was one of it’s most valuable pawns, it isn’t very difficult to imagine Zhaitan giving specific information to the Eye to be used against Zhaitan’s most prominent enemy.
Simply put, Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan is the last being you should believe.
If we don’t have any evidence then it’s given by Zhaitan. Also the princes proved that the Orr royal families weren’t all mesmers.
Zhaitan doesn’t know everything unless they reveal it to him. And its minions were not connected themselves.
Whiting was an example, he didn’t even know Cobiah was brought to him, that were seen by his own crew.
In the personal quest we took the lighthouse and misdirect the light, but the Dead Ships still follow it, why didn’t Zhaitan alert them? We took the ships and went to the shore, Zhaitan didn’t know until its eye saw us.
Another Eye also showed the ability to see through the scholar’s mind and dream.
First of all, I’ll have no part in this argument if you keep spouting fallacies and deny basic logic. Take a deep breath, read your post and think if it makes any sense at all before you post.
Moving on.
“Avatar of the Tree: Those who have been corrupted reveal everything to Zhaitan. Nothing is secret, least of all those places where his enemies hide.”
You are placing the words of a liar and an insane sylvari above that of the Pale Tree.
As for why the lighthouse plan worked – Zhaitan wasn’t omniscient. It couldn’t exactly take note every time a risen died somewhere. However, finding specific information is a different story. Compare it to keeping track of all the news feeds on internet as opposed to doing a google search on a specific topic.
Only fools and heroes charge in without a plan.
No, I’m saying that it was unique to Zhaitan’s minions. I don’t have to prove a “no” because there was nothing the disprove. We already know that the Orrian families were not all mesmers, so it’s not likely all of them have such ability.
Because she betrayed her master? The Dragonspawn was killed by EoD but we don’t see Jormag created another as well.
It’s the same rank of the champions. Also unlike Zhaitan, we don’t know about all the champions of Kralkatorrik.
If they could teleport through the portal, Jormag could not harm them since they could escape when the dragon was close then come out.
Where did it say that Jormag could not go through the Mist? Jormag’s minions were able to invade the Mist and send minions throughout the Frozen Portal from the Mist.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Destroy_the_corrupted_portals_summoning_creatures_from_the_mists
Actualy you do have to prove a “no” without proof you cannot state things as facts the way you do. Link to where we are told the class of the royal family of orr?
I also never said that they were all mesmers, and for that matter, what proof do we have that every eye has the ability to use telepathy?
That comparison is flawed, Glint betrayed her master AFTER the ritual, so Kralkatorrik wouldn’t have anything to fear if he created another one. But we do know that the abilities of the dragonspawn aren’t unique to him, as such he cannot be compared in this context to glint.
you’ll need to explain the relevance of the knowledge of Svanir being a champion of jormag , because atm i don’t see any.
I don’t think you quite understand what they mean with holding jormag back so the norn could escape. You don’t help someone escape by running away from the dragon. These spirits were actively holding jormag back, they didn’t want to escape to the msits because then the norn had no chance to escape.
Yes, his minions were, however it sjtu happens to be that those that control the portals happen to be corrupted norn. So i don’t think you quite proved your own point with that one As this would fall into the “innate abilities” due to their connection to the spiritworld. Also, show me proof that jormag can enter and leave the mists? he can’t, if he could, he would be feasting on the magic found in there. Which would probably include the Spirits who survived.