Guild Wars 2

Anyone noticed that Ascalon has alot of similarities to Roman occupied Brittian?

Rome came from the south invaded the Picts land(Brittian) and pushed them northward and built Hadrian’s Wall to help defend Roman occupied territories.

Ascalonian Settlers came from somewhere attacked the char homeland and pushed them northward and then built the Great Northern Wall to help defend against the char.

And yet, interestingly, from a cultural standpoint the Charr are much more roman.

Well, the charr are more Spartan. With Latin-derived names. Ascalon also burned under it’s king, so there’s that too.

Alas, the direct comparisons sort of end there. Ascalonians have paler complexions and are for the most part reduced in number pretty well. Many of them live in exile in Kryta from where they settled, though some are in Ebonhawke.

From what little we saw before the Searing, Ascalonians were under the impression the Wall would keep the charr out, and even with Ashford right within a walk from a checkpoint through the wall there was no concern there. We do know King Adelbern was descended from King Doric but not in the line of succession – it was the will of the people that put him there.

(That worked out beautifully, by the way. Thanks ancestors!)

By the way, my money is on the original Ascalonian settlers being exiles from Kryta. That being the seed which began the tension between those two nations.

Just because the charr are very disciplined and kitten, doesn’t mean they’re more Spartan than Roman. Certainly there’s a very Spartan attitude about them, but I think they’re more like how the Romans imagined themselves (at least when it came to war). Check out this story for an example! The legions, the names of the ranks, the emphasis on a disciplined fighting force rather than a berserker mob… all quite deliberately Roman. Ages ago, before the game’s release, I wrote this piece about how far that comparison can go.

Regarding Ascalon, the culture was portrayed as your standard European pseudo-medieval fantasy kingdom (even if Hadrian’s Wall probably was a source of inspiration, that’s passed from Roman to British history). It’s similar to ancient Rome only in the sense that almost every conventional fantasy kingdom is similar to Rome in some way. Rome is also a great source of inspiration for inter-race dynamics in fantasy, since the culture spread so far and interacted in many different ways with local ones elsewhere.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

By the way, my money is on the original Ascalonian settlers being exiles from Kryta. That being the seed which began the tension between those two nations.

Actually we know that prior to there being 3 nations in Tyria there was just 1 nation that spread from Orr to Ascalon, and a human colony from Elona that was in the area now known as Kryta. So Ascalonians are much more closely linked to the Orrians than the Krytans.

Narcemus.1348:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

By the way, my money is on the original Ascalonian settlers being exiles from Kryta. That being the seed which began the tension between those two nations.

Actually we know that prior to there being 3 nations in Tyria there was just 1 nation that spread from Orr to Ascalon, and a human colony from Elona that was in the area now known as Kryta. So Ascalonians are much more closely linked to the Orrians than the Krytans.

More precise, Ascalon and Kryta were both Orrian colonies before they gained independance => GWproph manuscripts.

marnick.4305:

Narcemus.1348:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

By the way, my money is on the original Ascalonian settlers being exiles from Kryta. That being the seed which began the tension between those two nations.

Actually we know that prior to there being 3 nations in Tyria there was just 1 nation that spread from Orr to Ascalon, and a human colony from Elona that was in the area now known as Kryta. So Ascalonians are much more closely linked to the Orrians than the Krytans.

More precise, Ascalon and Kryta were both Orrian colonies before they gained independance => GWproph manuscripts.

Actually It wasn’t mentioned that they were colonies of Orr. But now it is know that Kryta was a colony of Elona. Orr I think was a colony of Ascalon but that could be wrong do to new info.

Well, all of Ascalon and Orr were one human kingdom (though most of Orr was ruled by the gods from Arah, there were still many people in the outskirts of Arah that tended to the temples and everything.) At some point in time the people of Orr decided that they were breaking off from Ascalon. I don’t believe there is any mentioned war over this, and if I remember right the family line of Doric somehow has ties to the royalty of Ascalon, Kryta, and Orr. In fact, though Kryta was a colony from Elona, it was originally lead by a son of the king of Orr.

Ascalon also used to have great aquaducts crossing the land, similar to the Romans. You can still see the ruins of some of them in GW2.

I’m just sad how much of Ascalon somehow got leveled. It’s kind of like how the Dwarven areas throughout the Norn starter area completely disappeared.

Well, to be fair, when the charr started playing with explosives I can only imagine that Ascalonian ruins would be a favourite target. “Oh, the city planners wanted to clear this all to build something eventually anyway. What’s that, you need target practise? Go right ahead!”

I was sadden that they cut off the bottom half of ascalon the mountain area were the wizard tower and the fair in GW1 was.

Well Curuniel, I had built up in my head this image of the remaining city of Ascalon, created by reading the book Ghosts of Ascalon… I remember reading about barracks and houses still existing literally just 1 year before GW2. So I had hoped at least just the minimal foundations would still exist. I just really used to love that city.

Curuniel.4830:

Just because the charr are very disciplined and kitten, doesn’t mean they’re more Spartan than Roman. Certainly there’s a very Spartan attitude about them, but I think they’re more like how the Romans imagined themselves (at least when it came to war). Check out this story for an example! The legions, the names of the ranks, the emphasis on a disciplined fighting force rather than a berserker mob… all quite deliberately Roman. Ages ago, before the game’s release, I wrote this piece about how far that comparison can go.

Regarding Ascalon, the culture was portrayed as your standard European pseudo-medieval fantasy kingdom (even if Hadrian’s Wall probably was a source of inspiration, that’s passed from Roman to British history). It’s similar to ancient Rome only in the sense that almost every conventional fantasy kingdom is similar to Rome in some way. Rome is also a great source of inspiration for inter-race dynamics in fantasy, since the culture spread so far and interacted in many different ways with local ones elsewhere.

I don’t know about that, the Romans had a history of tolerance when it came to absorbing the cultures they conquered. In fact, some of the issues in the late Republic had to do with non-Roman influences in both the Army and Senate. It was in their best interests for order and prosperity to let their conquered territories keep their various identities. Historically, not much about the Charr reflects that, they certainly held some xenophobic attitudes in their past.

From a governmental, religious, or art/architecture standpoint the Charr don’t really adhere to Roman qualities. The humans could say they do in at least the latter two(Ascalon architecture is casually similar, and the gods much more so with how they take on human qualities and have a small but powerful “pantheon” of gods).

I would say the Charr bear two good similarities to Rome: the military and engineering. The military is an obvious one. And Romans were widely know for their inventiveness in engineering and construction, although the technological leaps and bounds the Charr take from gw1 to gw2 is arguably unrealistic.

It’s the raw culture of the Charr that seems much more Spartan then Roman to me. The Romans were a military juggernaut for sure, but they also were the transient carriers of Greek ideals, innovators in civil code, politics, law, architecture and agriculture, and the sheltering wings under which the Med-lands enjoyed hundreds of years of peace and safety(albeit after being conquered). The Spartans knew little of broad governance beyond a slavery/master framework, and even less of art. The were a warrior culture that lived and died by the spear. Seems pretty Charr-like to me.

Yet I would agree with you that Ascalon doesn’t seem terribly Roman either, but rather a generic “european”-modeled fantasy realm. Likable characters though.

I don’t know about that, the Romans had a history of tolerance when it came to absorbing the cultures they conquered … Historically, not much about the Charr reflects that, they certainly held some xenophobic attitudes in their past.

Yeah, that’s true. To be honest I think it’s because they’re not that big on empire in the incorporation sense. It suited the Romans to let the locals do what had been working for them before – less admin work for the new Roman rulers. But the charr are more likely to exterminate people in lands they take; it’s not like non-charr get incorporated into the Legions! And there’s not really a role for non-charr citizens in (current) charr society.

I also agree that charr religion and such isn’t very Roman – but then, the Romans seem to have been pretty secular in a lot of ways. Their best myths were more like legendary histories, and a lot of religious rituals were observed out of a vague sense of obligation. Still, you are correct in that the wider cosmopolitan culture of the Romans doesn’t really have a charr equivalent.

Actually now that I think about it, I don’t know if you read the old blog post I linked to before but maybe it’s more accurate to say that the charr bear similarities to the Roman Republic, rather than the imperial period? I do think it makes sense to view the charr as in a transitional period right now. Who knows, if a hundred years from now the charr aren’t actively at war any more, their culture could develop in a variety of interesting directions.

That’s why I posted earlier, in this one or another, that they seem to me to be a mixture of roman and mongol. There’s a lot of mongol in them in the way that they conquer and treat their conquers.

Curuniel.4830:

Yeah, that’s true. To be honest I think it’s because they’re not that big on empire in the incorporation sense. It suited the Romans to let the locals do what had been working for them before – less admin work for the new Roman rulers. But the charr are more likely to exterminate people in lands they take; it’s not like non-charr get incorporated into the Legions! And there’s not really a role for non-charr citizens in (current) charr society.

Not for every culture, and not necessarily the best allies either. Divide et impera was the way to establish rule through local customs. Play them out against each other. But that doesn’t apply either unless you count grawl vs humans.