Guild Wars 2

So we know that Balthazar came to this world carrying the severed head of his father with him. We also know that he had a half-brother Menzies, who wasn’t a god himself, but had control over an army powerful enough to be as much a factor as Dhuum was as Abaddon ally during the Nightfall.

Do we have any more info on the family? I think him carrying his father head might be one of these cases:

a) Balthazar’s father was an evil god like Abaddon and Dhuum were, and the same way Grenth replaced Dhuum, Balthazar took his father’s power as the god of war. Menzies, more in the lines of the evil father (I’m more inclined to think that the shared parent Balthazar and Dhuum have is their father and that he hooked up with different mothers) thinks it should be him and not Balthazar holding the power and that’s why he’s trying to defeat him in the Fissure of Woe during GW1.

b) Balthazar’s faher wasn’t an evil god, but his evil son Menzies plotted to take his power. Menzies killed him but Balthazar defeated him and took his father mantle, and his head as a reminder of his legacy.

c) Balthazar’s father wasn’t a god at all, but the family was really powerful, and Balthazar did deeds good enough so Dwayna offered him godlike powers. His brother gets jealous of him and that’s why he wants to replace him, and his father head is just a reminder of Balthazar’s origins.

Is there any more info on this in the game? I would be interested on this. Since the reveal of Grenth being the son of Dwayna and a mortal, making him a half-god until he took Dhuum’s throne, the reveal of Lyssa’s twins actually having separated names (which would imply real separate identities? but both sharing the power of a single god as there can only be six?), and the reveal of what was Balthazar carrying with him when he arrived in Tyria, I’m really curious about the origin of the gods.

I had them in my mind a bit as being there before everything else, but that’s clearly false, at least for most of them. Dwyana was the first of them but we don’t know from where exactly their powers came (maybe something to do with Arachnia who is said be have been there before them?, or maybe she and some companions were very powerful mist travelers that found the power in a plane of the mist?, we only know that there is only enough power for six of them and new candidates mut take the power from another one, and they aren’t word creators or omniscient entities, in fact they only favour humans and some other specific followers).

No we don’t have more information on his family. However, I’d like to point out that the state of Menzies’ divinity’s was never mentioned – he might be a god, he might be half-god, or he might be full-blown (dead and now spectral) mortal.

There’s more possibilities for why Balthazar was carrying his father’s head:
Balthazar could have been a greedy kitten and just decided to usurp his father in godhood (if his father was a god) – possibly even plotted with Menzies and then betrayed his half-brother.

Balthazar’s father was murdered by someone else (perhaps the possible mysterious plight that the Six Gods and humans might have left behind if my theories are right) and he was carrying his father’s head out of mourning (not very likely, I’m betting on conquest).

Hunting accident with his pet wolves and the body was too heavy/burdensome to carry.

While Dwayna’s the first to be on Tyria, Melandru’s the oldest (thus technically the “first of them”) – keep that in mind.

Arachnia’s canonocity is in question as all information on her comes from the gw.dat and thus isn’t “officially released.”

And nothing really says that there has to be and can only be six gods. It’s just that a god cannot be killed without a replacement of his/her power going supernova.

And it’s Balthazar who favors solely humans – though Lyssa and Abaddon may as well, but Dwayna and Melandru don’t favor only humans, and Grenth’s stance on non-human races is up in the air.

Assuming a consistent character (which may not be the case in the transition to godhood, and a good long time to think about it, so who knows) I think Balthazar being a “greedy kitten” doesn’t quite fit with his associations with honour. I’m much more inclined to see him as the honourable warrior, Menzies as the less honourable, more conniving and ambitious one – you know, Thor and Loki! Although Menzies may be less cunning than Loki, and more contrasted with Balthazar for sheer brutality and lack of mercy.

I do agree that Balthazar probably killed his father, it fits myth symbolism best. But that’s really just my feeling. I do hope we get some more of this stuff in future, but it depends on whether they continue to illuminate (and de-mythologise) the Six, or whether Orr was our chance, haha.

Well we know very well that Balthazar has anger issues, what with killing a mortal over losing a boardgame. He would even destroy a village for a breach of etiquette. (source ) And given what the Orrian History Scrolls say about him (that he wanted humanity to rule the Tyrian world and that it wasn’t the first time he’s wrong when he thought humans would quickly defeat the other races, implying he’s wrong a lot), I wouldn’t say that Balthazar’s all honorable – he comes off to me as a loss-tempered warrior with high ideals and is overconfident (both of himself and humanity).

He comes off as the type who’d willingly kill his father just because said father’s preventing the progress which should be (humanity supremacy, for instance).

Hmm, very interesting, thanks for the extra info. Maybe more prideful, something he sees as honour but others see as much more of a flaw.

I would interpret his championing of humans as a matter of “these are my people” – having decided to further their cause, he does so whatever the circumstances. He is proud, and extends that pride and over-confidence to his chosen race. Loyalty and all that (obviously something he expects humans to return, and he doesn’t put up with anything less from them!). It’s also possible that it comes from who he was before he took up his divine power. Perhaps Balthazar is a little more like Adelbern than I would like… willing to slay his father for holding back, being cautious, and not rushing forward with what Balthazar thinks they should do right now?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

And given what the Orrian History Scrolls say about him (that he wanted humanity to rule the Tyrian world and that it wasn’t the first time he’s wrong when he thought humans would quickly defeat the other races, implying he’s wrong a lot)

See I read this a whole different way. In my mind I read it as Balthazar has at least 2 big mistakes and this was 1 of them, not that he was actively rage blinded or ignorant causing him to be wrong constantly. Though I guess either interpretation could be a possibility.

There’s somethings that I don’t think are being tackled despite it being said.

Menzies is Balthazar’s half-brother. This means that Menzies has either a different Mother or a different Father than Balthazar. Considering the fact that Balthazar is carrying his Father’s head, my belief is that they share the same Father.

I agree with Konig in that Balth has never been a very… calm and collected deity. The Asura have appropriately dubbed him the Human God of Murder. However, I don’t think his Father’s murder would be one done because of a difference of Philosophy concerning humans. I think the conflict between Balthazar and Menzies is actually closer to a conflict of Right.

To explain, Balthazar and Menzies are only half-brothers, and as I said I believe that the common link to them would be their father. However without further information on the subject this is purely speculation. Balthazar, while also presiding over the domain of War, is also the God of Honour (even if he’s not exactly happy if he loses). My personal feelings is that after his father had Menzies with another woman, most likely outside of his relationship with Balthazar’s mother, it is highly likely that such an occurrence would have been viewed as a slight against his Family’s honour. So I like to imagine that Balthazar dueled his Father for their Family’s honour, and upon killing him took the mantle of God of War for himself.

This still leaves Menzies though, half-brother to Balthazar, who in bitter hatred for the Brother who refuses to acknowledge him sought his Father’s mantle as God of War for himself.

Unfortunately as I stated though, this is purely speculation. We know so little about Menzies, even after he nearly pried control over the Fissure of Woe from Balthazar. It will be really cool to actually get to see more of Balthazar’s history emerge as the game continues, so I’m keeping my fingers crossed.

EDIT: This theory also requires the assumption that Menzies is a Half-God, because it assumes that Balthazar’s father was a God. It could be that Balthazar only attained Godhood after all this occurred. Again, I plead lack of information to make this theory work.

Narcemus.1348:

In my mind I read it as Balthazar has at least 2 big mistakes and this was 1 of them, not that he was actively rage blinded or ignorant causing him to be wrong constantly. Though I guess either interpretation could be a possibility.

Indeed, such scriptures are usually intentionally ambiguous :P If your interpretation is the intended one, though, I would guess that the first mistake had to do with either the killing of his father, or the reason the gods moved into Tyria from wherever they were.

If killing his father were part of his first great error, he might have killed him in a fit of rage or under false assumptions, and then been grief-stricken when he realised his error afterwards (and carried the head thereafter). In fact, now that I think about it killing his father because of some crime which Balthazar found out afterwards he was not actually guilty of is pure Greek mythology stuff and would fit really well.

Ratphink.4751:

The Asura have appropriately dubbed him the Human God of Murder.

Where’s this ever mentioned? News to me.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Ratphink.4751:

The Asura have appropriately dubbed him the Human God of Murder.

Where’s this ever mentioned? News to me.

Story Quests for the Priory when you use a Human Relic to become an Avatar of Balthazar. It may not be all Asura, but an Asura said it and I liked the quote.

EDIT: source
Gixx says it.

Interesting, though depending on one’s view, killing in war can be murder too, so its not saying too much.