Guild Wars 2

Oglaf.1074:

Yeah but it wouldn’t be as a decisive victory as operation Bombing The Grove would be. It would pretty much annihilate the Sylvari in one fell swoop. Trying to do the same to Asura (with all their labs and stuff scattered everywhere) and Norns (with all homesteads and lodges everywhere) wouldn’t be as effective.

You’d have to spend years in the freezing Shiverpeaks to try and stamp out every last ounce of Norn resistance. And survivors could live on and breed to come back and haunt you later on with their descendants.

. . . I don’t think the charr would care

I commented at least once the charr society needs to have an enemy to focus that military on or it’ll self-destruct. Resistance fighters would be perfect to keep the warbands busy from not turning on each other.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Advent.6193:

Well, Oglaf … you do realize that there were other seeds in the cave where Ronan found the Pale Tree’s?

Caravan. Caravan. As in, the White Mantle for some reason had the seed and he stole it.

I’m more worried about what the White Mantle was planning on doing with it.

Not Caravan. Cavern

“This story began with a human soldier named Ronan whom, [sic] while separated from his patrol, discovered a cavern filled with strange seed-pods.”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Movement_of_the_World

Oglaf.1074:

You put a torch to the Pale Tree and that is the end for the Sylvari.

EDIT: The Sylvari as we know them.

One word:

Malyck

Other trees spawning sylvari exist location unknown to the other races. So your argument is now null.

No it is not, that is exactly my argument actually.

HOLD EVERYTHING!!!!! Can’t you see this discussion is starting to turn into an argument? All races of Tyria are equal in their skills, but they way they use them makes them uniquely different. But, bragging about those skills would just start a war in Tyria. The dragons want everyone to fight each other while they take over. Lets just end this conversation and make sure the dragons don’t get what they want. Agreed?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

One word:

Malyck

Other trees spawning sylvari exist location unknown to the other races. So your argument is now null.

No it’s not, we just burn down the whole freaking Maguuma Jungle if we have to. Melandru will understand that it has to be done for the greater good.

On a more serious note, nuking the Pale Tree would singnicantly weaken the Sylvari in Tyria. We don’t even know how many other Pale Tree exist, but it’s possible that it is only one. Finding that thing could be hard, but not impossible. Then repeat what you have done to the Pale Tree until no tree is left and the Sylvari infestation is dealt with.

Exactly.

In essence, the Sylvari are but bees. Take out the queen and the hive dies.

The hive doesn’t die. Plus we don’t know how long sylvari lives, or what would happen when sylvari reach their lifespan, or even if the Pale Tree can make more of her kind. Based on plants, then sylvari and sylvan hounds should hold seeds (if not being seeds) that would sprout into more “Pale Trees.”

All three known sylvari graves have some sort of unique plant – two cases being a tree, though the third is within a swamp that’s had a history of necromantic magic in it – growing there.

Erector.1458:

HOLD EVERYTHING!!!!! Can’t you see this discussion is starting to turn into an argument? All races of Tyria are equal in their skills, but they way they use them makes them uniquely different. But, bragging about those skills would just start a war in Tyria. The dragons want everyone to fight each other while they take over. Lets just end this conversation and make sure the dragons don’t get what they want. Agreed?

Hi there, you must be new.

Don’t worry, it’s all in good fun. See, the real rancor is reserved for the Mist Wars and then it’s one group of miscreants against one group of thugs, against one group of blackguards.

Good luck figuring out which is which though.

Oglaf.1074:

Bellyboomer.3048:

The Norn may have muscle but lack tactics, technology, strenght in numbers…

Tactics? Contrary to popular belief, Norns are not stupid.

Technology? This is a sword: this end is for holding, the other for stabbing.

Strength in numbers? Lore-wise, a single Norn might very well best an entire Charr warband in combat.

Nope.

If that were so, Jormag would be a pest control problem.

Korsbaek.9803:

first off i will like you to say sorry to the vikings as they at there time where the most feared groupe off people in europe and there ancesters where also the race that bet rome back so they could not advanse more north then they did(the west strongest empire up to moden time, just got there kitten handed to them by some drunking vikings) and they also bet the strongest military they had

my gess for the best civilizatio must be Lions arch as they are not bound to one race but combins them all under one flag/goverment

tho the best race must be the sylvari as they have the knowlege and power to live with nature and gain strength instead of living of it and gain strenget as living of it will end when the nature as nothing more to give of

and there is so many nations based on war that last longer then some of our moden contrues by miles still and if you say that any nation in the moden world is not basing something around war then your greatly mistaken(every nation has a militia in some way and that is the same the charr has)

Uhh… The vikings pushed back the Roman empire while a) it was in decline and b) around 6 other significant forces were moving against them at the same time. I have to stand with you on the Charr issue as the Spartan empire still managed to survive around 700 years.

Aznhaxx.2054:

Korsbaek.9803:

first off i will like you to say sorry to the vikings as they at there time where the most feared groupe off people in europe and there ancesters where also the race that bet rome back so they could not advanse more north then they did(the west strongest empire up to moden time, just got there kitten handed to them by some drunking vikings) and they also bet the strongest military they had

my gess for the best civilizatio must be Lions arch as they are not bound to one race but combins them all under one flag/goverment

tho the best race must be the sylvari as they have the knowlege and power to live with nature and gain strength instead of living of it and gain strenget as living of it will end when the nature as nothing more to give of

and there is so many nations based on war that last longer then some of our moden contrues by miles still and if you say that any nation in the moden world is not basing something around war then your greatly mistaken(every nation has a militia in some way and that is the same the charr has)

Uhh… The vikings pushed back the Roman empire while a) it was in decline and b) around 6 other significant forces were moving against them at the same time. I have to stand with you on the Charr issue as the Spartan empire still managed to survive around 700 years.

c. Pax Romana (a long period where the Roman Empire enjoyed relative peace) had led to a disarmament of the Roman army so they were very ill equipped to deal with the sudden aggression.

Not an easy question to answer, because there’s so many factors to judge, and compared to a real-world culture, we really only know a fraction of the details about how the different cultures work.

I personally think the Asura society is far too unstable to be considered the best. They do have an excellent grasp on technology, and they are very scientifically astute, but most Asura lack the wisdom to use their intelligence responsibly. There’s far, far too many examples in the game of Asura technology going haywire. And I don’t see how they are friendly to their environment, considering how much of their technological missteps seem to adversely affect the immediate area (see: Thaumanova Reactor).

Humans are difficult to judge. We’re sometimes told they’re a race on precipice of oblivion, but Kryta (despite its internal troubles) seems to be relatively strong, particularly given the events in the Harathi Hinterlands in which the centaurs are pushed back. Furthermore, we don’t know enough about Cantha or Elona to judge – they could be in a stronger or weaker position than Kryta (though Elona, of course, is under Joko’s rule, but it still might be strong and stable). Though I honestly think if Kryta and the Charr do make a lasting piece, Kryta will be a major player in Tyria, despite some of the lore saying “humanity is on the decline”.

Charr I think would my vote, but it’s not an easy choice. They still a bit too aggressive and war-like, but if the newer generation truly begins to commit to peace, I think they’re in an excellent position to become the foremost power in Tyria. They are innovative and technologically adept, but unlike the Asura, they are practical. They have a unified, stable society – granted, a somewhat harsh and restrictive one, but it’s at least stable. However, I worry what would happen to them as a society if they no longer had a threat to unify against. In that instance, would they be able to transition to a more peaceful society – or would they turn on their neighbors, or even themselves, and return to their war-mongering ways? I could see it going either way, honestly.

Aznhaxx.2054:

Korsbaek.9803:

first off i will like you to say sorry to the vikings as they at there time where the most feared groupe off people in europe and there ancesters where also the race that bet rome back so they could not advanse more north then they did(the west strongest empire up to moden time, just got there kitten handed to them by some drunking vikings) and they also bet the strongest military they had

my gess for the best civilizatio must be Lions arch as they are not bound to one race but combins them all under one flag/goverment

tho the best race must be the sylvari as they have the knowlege and power to live with nature and gain strength instead of living of it and gain strenget as living of it will end when the nature as nothing more to give of

and there is so many nations based on war that last longer then some of our moden contrues by miles still and if you say that any nation in the moden world is not basing something around war then your greatly mistaken(every nation has a militia in some way and that is the same the charr has)

Uhh… The vikings pushed back the Roman empire while a) it was in decline and b) around 6 other significant forces were moving against them at the same time. I have to stand with you on the Charr issue as the Spartan empire still managed to survive around 700 years.

So many things wrong in both these posts. Okay, the Western Roman Empire was already gone when the vikings were in their time of glory, which was in the so called Dark Ages (named so because most of the knowledge of the mediterranean cultures was lost to northern europe). The vikings have absolutly nothing to do with the fall of the WRE, which is viewed by many historians as the end of the antiquity. They only came in contact with the Eastern Roman Empire, aka the Byzantine Empire, but this contact was mostly trade, with very view combat situations.
The only Roman Empire the vikings pillaged was the later Holy Roman Empire, which was not declining, but rising at that time. It was also not the vikings ancestors that defeated the WRE, as the vikings are North Germanics, while the ones that pressed into Romes borders, were East and West Germanics, the former are extinct today. However those weren’t all, since the whole migration period was started by the Huns and other central asian nomads, that flooded into europe, defeating everyone with their superior cavalary.
The deal was sealed when the Muslim Empire was founded, which conquered all of romes former southern territories. Unlike the barbarian hordes, the muslims kept the knowledge, the roman, greek and egyptian cultures had gathered over the course of centuries, therefore they were arguably the most powerful culture in the Dark Ages.

Also the Spartans were never a really strong city state, atleast not as strong as many people believe them to be. Yes they had the greatest military power in Greece, but their whole economy was based on slaves, and they declined after winning a war, the Peloponnesian War. Their victory over Athens was ultimatly pointless, the negative effect on their economy was much greater, since unlike Athens, who had a large fleet of trading ships, reaching every port in the mediterranean sea, the spartans had to fight slave rebellions and other city states, which weakend them more and more until they were conquered by Philip II.

“Thy asuran race is peaceful.”

No. They’re thugs. Think of rival mobs and replace “turf” with “research”. They frequently fight one another, and their most prized scientific advances often involve combat golems.

“The asuran race doesn’t want to harm nature.”

No. They’re responsible for oil spills, plant meltdowns whose fallout warps reality, and experimentation on flora and faun. Even sentient beings are treated as lab rats by asura.

“The asura intend to advance their civilization.”

No. They’re too busy worrying about their own, individual glory to care about their civilization as a whole. And their government is rank with corruption.

The charr are the future. On top of possessing advanced technology, industry, and military tactics, they’re taught from childhood to live and fight with and for one another.

Bellyboomer.3048:

The Charr have a great industrial economy, but their entire civilization is based on war. Our history has shown us cultures like that tend to collapse rather fast…

I’ve made this comparison before, but it bears repeating. The charr are most akin to pre-WW2 Japan. They were on the losing side of technology (magic). In response, they industrialized (with both magic and iron technology) at a remarkably quick pace and began to expand imperially in order to claim lands for resources and with the nationalist notion that those lands have cultural ties to the charr.

The charr may have made their name in war, but the collective nature and the drive of the charr to succeed will make them an industrial powerhouse even in peacetime. (Again, akin to Japan transition post-WW2). Any clocks you see around Tyria? Those are charr-made. Charr are renown for their spring and gear work. The pact’s helicopters? Said to be charr designs. They’ve created things as diverse as ghost containment machines to cow-chucking catapults. The charr are unbelievably – and uniquely – inventive.

Finally, even with the human treaty, the military state of the charr still have outsiders they can focus on: ghosts, dredge, grawl, ogres, harpies, ect. The Blood Legion won’t be bored any time soon. Ash and Iron will use the more peaceful time to move the charr economy in new directions.

Surely the most important thing here is that how strong humans are depends on what has happened in Elona and Cantha and, more importantly, what will happen to Orr. (Will it be rebuilt and then see a second strong human kingdom) The strength of the Charr has so far been focusing on greater threats to hold their society together and we don’t know whether they can make that transition to a peaceful society recognising almost strategic parity with other nations. The Norn would never be conquered by anyone because they live in a harsh climate with a decentralised system where you would have to burn the entirety of their land to completely conquer them. (Kind of like Switzerland in WW2- not as strong as other powers but no one would want to conquer them)The harsh climate would make it difficult to move an army through and there isn’t much to conquer. The Asura are probably the weakest because their technological strength is undermined by the lack of co-operation and continual attempts to undermine each other for personal pride. They are equally too arrogant to work properly in alliances with other races. The Sylvari are powerful because of how they’re produced however at the same time the Pale Tree is unlikely to order the Sylvari to march and wipe out one of the other races/kingdoms. Equally the Charr or other races might be able to burn the Pale Tree but they would have to transport siege weapons etc. through miles of forest where the trees, animals and the entirety of nature is against you. (Things like Binding Roots would destroy siege weapons).

The charr used to have alot of infighting before humanity showed up. they overcame this problem by developing a natural adherance to their hierarchy. So if they have no enemies it won’t be that big of an issue for them. still, their goal is similar to the asura’s: Rule the world.