Guild Wars 2

When as a GW1 player, I find the Bloodstones to be evil. This is my first encounter with them and this happened in the Bloodstone Fen mission. Innocent and unwilling human victims were killed and their human spirit and essence were absorbed to charge the Bloodstones. Unwilling human victims seemed to be the only method to utilise the Bloodstones. Beside the Maguuma Bloodstone, again this same human sacrifice was used on the Abbadon’s Mouth Bloodstone where countless human souls were imprisoned when they were murdered there.

Later in GW2, I learn as a player that Abbadon’s altar also held devoted human souls. This is the Temple of the Forgotten God mission in the Straits of Devastation. Abbadon supposed to have given human the use of magic by giving them the Bloodstone. History says Bloodstone magic caused ceaseless conflict among all the humans. I would have said there were ceaseless conflict because Bloodstone magic required killing human and capturing their tortured souls.

Krait’s Obelisk Shards are similar to Bloodstones, but instead of human sacrifice now the sacrificial victims are mainly unwilling Quaggan slaves.

The Seers made the first Bloodstone and their magic in GW1 was essence infusion magic. The essence was captured from killed creatures and then putted into armour. This is almost the same as killing human and putting their human essence into the Bloodstones.

I see Abbadon’s gift of magic to human as a detriment in making the human killing one another to power the Bloodstone.

Dragon magic in the form of Zhaitan consuming magical artefacts compare more favourably to Bloodstone magic that consume human spirit. Eating magical artefacts is by itself not evil whereas consuming unwilling human victims’ souls is evil.

Jormag on the other hand did consumed Spirit of the Owl…etc…

A minor correction on your first paragraph that really affects the entirety of your post: innocents were killed to power soul batteries, not the bloodstones – the bloodstones seem to be just used to channel the energy of the soul from the body to the battery. Humans were not sacrificed (to our knowledge) on the Ring of Fire bloodstone – the soul batteries were transported from the Maguuma Jungle to the Ring of Fire. In neither case was the Bloodstone “activated.”

A correction on the second paragraph: Nothing actually says those “Devotees” were souls nor sacrificed. And it has been corrected by Angel McCoy to show that Abaddon wasn’t the only one to give magic from the Bloodstone (Abaddon didn’t give the Bloodstone – that was made by the seers long before). And the conflict that magic brought was between more than just humanity. As for last sentence, see above.

Krait Obelisks are similar to the bloodstones only in that they contain magic. It is unknown if sacrificing on them does anything to said magic contained within.

As for your paragraph on dragon magic… “Dragon magic” is the corruptive magic expunged by the Elder Dragons to make minions; they devour any kind of magic, corrupt it, and release it. Though during hibernation the magic they release is not corruptive so the corrupting part has to be a proactive action.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

A minor correction on your first paragraph that really affects the entirety of your post: innocents were killed to power soul batteries, not the bloodstones – the bloodstones seem to be just used to channel the energy of the soul from the body to the battery. Humans were not sacrificed (to our knowledge) on the Ring of Fire bloodstone – the soul batteries were transported from the Maguuma Jungle to the Ring of Fire. In neither case was the Bloodstone “activated.”

A correction on the second paragraph: Nothing actually says those “Devotees” were souls nor sacrificed. And it has been corrected by Angel McCoy to show that Abaddon wasn’t the only one to give magic from the Bloodstone (Abaddon didn’t give the Bloodstone – that was made by the seers long before). And the conflict that magic brought was between more than just humanity. As for last sentence, see above.

Krait Obelisks are similar to the bloodstones only in that they contain magic. It is unknown if sacrificing on them does anything to said magic contained within.

As for your paragraph on dragon magic… “Dragon magic” is the corruptive magic expunged by the Elder Dragons to make minions; they devour any kind of magic, corrupt it, and release it. Though during hibernation the magic they release is not corruptive so the corrupting part has to be a proactive action.

NO, not really, players in GW1 know countless Krytans were killed on the actual Bloodstone itself in the Bloodstone Fen Mission. They also know the Lich was killed on the actual Bloodstone in Abbadon’s Mouth to seal the Titans. So Mussarat batteries and the insect creatures in Realm of Madness that blocked transmigration of souls are only an overstated distraction.

Yes… that’s what Konig said. The humans are killed on the bloodstones, then the souls that are released are trapped within the batteries. The batteries were taken to Hell’s Precipice and used to power the Door of Komalie. Destroying the seals drained the batteries, thus opening the Door. Slaying the Lich atop the bloodstone recharged the batteries and closed the Door. At no point were the souls taken into the bloodstones. Rather, it would seem that the local environment of the bloodstones, which alters the workings of death and resurrection, created a zone where the souls could be captured by the batteries. See here, Rurik’s dialogue here, and most especially here.

Distraction aside, the evil nature of Bloodstone magic has parallel in Foefire magic. Foefire released by Magdaer also stop transmigration of souls locking the victim spirits in time stopping them moving on. Some of those human spirits are unwilling when they were killed running away trying to save themselves.

The related swords Magdaer and Sohothin were said originally from Orr before given to Ascalon. So the two swords and the Bloodstones did had a point of origin in Orr where once the 6 gods had resided.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Yes… that’s what Konig said. The humans are killed on the bloodstones, then the souls that are released are trapped within the batteries. The batteries were taken to Hell’s Precipice and used to power the Door of Komalie. Destroying the seals drained the batteries, thus opening the Door. Slaying the Lich atop the bloodstone recharged the batteries and closed the Door. At no point were the souls taken into the bloodstones. Rather, it would seem that the local environment of the bloodstones, which alters the workings of death and resurrection, created a zone where the souls could be captured by the batteries. See here, Rurik’s dialogue here, and most especially here.

I am correct too in saying he has overstated his case which he did and now so have you overstating his case.

No… your argument is that the bloodstones somehow require or utilize “human essence”, which is just flat unsupported. You’re taking the use they were put to for a handful of years out of their thousands of years of history, and making a sweeping claim that they are therefore devices of evil. We aren’t the ones overstating the facts, mate.

Lore expounded by other factions and guilds but not by myself is that the Elder Dragon consume magic as much as they can and then they go to sleep. To save some magic the seers made the Bloodstone. Presumably this meant the Bloodstone is the most important part of the magic storage process. Once again the latter is not from myself and as such I do not want to make comment on it. However, I did limit myself to those lore in my writing.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

No… your argument is that the bloodstones somehow require or utilize “human essence”, which is just flat unsupported. You’re taking the use they were put to for a handful of years out of their thousands of years of history, and making a sweeping claim that they are therefore devices of evil. We aren’t the ones overstating the facts, mate.

Ancient King Doric is a possible first king of human on continental Tyria. He thought the Bloodstone magic was bad and possibly evil enough to warrant it be broken. Various factions and guilds say he too had to sacrifice himself on the Bloodstone to break it into pieces.

No, he thought what was being done with it was bad. He wasn’t protesting the magic, he was trying to end the killing. Magic, from the bloodstones or otherwise, is not inherently good or bad, it’s just a tool. For every sacrificial rite or fireball, there’s a resurrection or a portal. Like any power, the moral dimension is projected only upon its use.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

No, he thought what was being done with it was bad. He wasn’t protesting the magic, he was trying to end the killing. Magic, from the bloodstones or otherwise, is not inherently good or bad, it’s just a tool. For every sacrificial rite or fireball, there’s a resurrection or a portal. Like any power, the moral dimension is projected only upon its use.

I am not saying magic is evil. I am saying Bloodstone magic is evil. I am also saying magic can come from a variety of sources such as divine magic from the 6 gods. Magic can also come from the Great Alchemy. Magic can also come from the Pale Tree. Bloodstone magic is evil because the only known fact within players’ game experience is people have to be sacrificed on the Bloodstones.

You seem to not realize there is no difference between “Bloodstone magic” and “magic” – all magic in Tyria is the same. Magic stored in the Bloodstone was once up in the open world. Magic in the open world was once devoured by the Elder Dragons and released. “Dragon magic” is magic that was once in the open world and had previously been devoured but has not yet been expunged into the open world.

Magic is magic, irregardless of its source. Only possible exception is divinity, though whether this is traditional magic or not is unknown – but it certainly isn’t Tyrian, and that’s likely what makes it so unique (possibly the Forgotten’s magic too).

And you don’t need to sacrifice people – human or not – in order to utilize the magic which is constantly leaking out of the Bloodstones. The sacrifices was for the soul batteries, who’s sole purpose was to seal the Door of Komalie.

Yeah, I have to agree with these guys that if you want to argue that Bloodstone Magic is evil, then you have to argue that All Tyrian Magic is evil. I mean basically Bloodstone Magic was just all of the magic in the world at the time it was created pulled within and then later released. This makes the Bloodstone itself little more than a vacuum cleaner that the gods decided to switch from suck to blow.

I am fine with Konig Des Todes, Aaron Ansari, and you Narcemaus not finding human sacrifice as mean of charging up Bloodstone magic morally reprehensible as the Bloodstone Fen mission exemplified. Now that you had your say, you lot can move on and I don’t expect more contribution from you. For myself I will keep to the opinion that Bloodstone magic practice indicated in the Bloodstone Fen mission is evil.

There is strong evidence that Bloodstone magic is inherently and fundamentally base on human sacrifice. The Bloodstone is the most important integral part of the magic storage process developed by the Seers. The Seers did had a nature of utilising spiritual essence from killed victims. If Bloodstone magic can be readily adaptable to another method of charging up then ancient King Doric would have done it. The King and his powerful nation would have found an alternative use for the Bloodstone if only Bloodstone magic could be adapted to any other method apart from human sacrifice. But he, his nation, and other people and races can not do it.

Ancient King Doric had to seek the help of the 5 gods to resolve the terrible problem of Bloodstone magic. As Tyrian history tell us, the players, the 5 gods themselves can not alter the permanent evil nature of Bloodstone magic. The 5 godly powers in their divine wisdom decided the best option was to destroy what they can of the Bloodstone and scatter the remain pieces far apart all over the Tyrian world. This was done at the cost of sacrificing ancient King Doric, the most beloved devotee of Dwayna, and using the most terrible godly volcanic explosion at Abbadon’s Mouth, spawning ground of the Titans.

The thing is, Avariz, human sacrifice is NOT used to charge up the bloodstone – let alone “bloodstone magic.” We aren’t slaying the act of human sacrifice isn’t morally wrong. We’re saying that you’re misunderstanding what the sacrifice was for.

Everything “evil” you’re attributing to the bloodstones is not actually part of the bloodstones or their functions themselves.

• The sacrifices are used to power the soul batteries, not the bloodstone nor the magic within the bloodstone.
• King Doric pleaded for the reduction of magic on a general scale. This was not limited to magic from the bloodstone per se. Furthermore, the tale of King Doric comes about alongside the original belief that the Bloodstone was made after the gift of magic was introduced. We actually don’t know if what we were told of King Doric is truthful or not in regards to this, since the original “historical facts” that a drop of his blood was used to seal magic within the newly-made Bloodstone is now questionable.
• King Doric had no control over the original Bloodstone – only the gods did. He and his nation and all other nations merely had magic – not “Bloodstone magic” just “magic.”
• Per original info, the only human sacrifices that would affect the Bloodstone is that of King Doric’s line – e.g., only sacrificing royalty would do what you’re saying is done by any human sacrifices. But again this is something that’s called into question.
• On a side, Abaddon’s Mouth is not spawning grounds for the Titans…

I would like you to actually do some more research on this topic and not twist our words when you reply to us, please.

Wow you are so extremely off base it is crazy. Never have I, Konig, or Aaron stated that human sacrifice was okay. We all fought against the mursaat in our days of Guild Wars Prophecies. You are completely mis-reading the information and refusing to understand the true scenario. The Bloodstone was made, likely, years before humanity ever came to Tyria. Because of this, it would be insane to believe that the Seers created it to require human sacrifice. I mean how can they create something that requires sacrifice of a creature that doesn’t even exist in the world?

The bloodstones were USED to transfer souls to soul batteries by MURSAAT. This WAS NOT it’s original function. It’s original function was to hold or, after the gods shattered it, separate magic into fields. They never required human sacrifice. As Konig stated, nothing seems to state that King Doric died in the creation of the bloodstone, all that is said is some of his blood was used to seal it. Could be as simple as pricking a finger and putting a drop on there. I don’t understand what your trouble in comprehending is.

Stop stealing other people’s thread and way of story telling to aggrandize your own. This is a game and an evolving fictional story. Konig Des Todes, for all your mumble jumble magical technicality within this game fiction, I just don’t agree with your personal style. You and your coteries are on a par with real life religious cults or a religious inquisition. Once again this is a evolving game fiction. I don’t need your kind of censorship and control. I myself am only doing fan fiction that more or less cogent with Anet’s. This is part of my enjoyment. I don’t need your unwelcome help.

I am sure you all can make your own thread. You don’t have to intrude into mine and derail it.

This is a forum dedicating to discussing canon. If you want to make up fan-fiction, you’re welcome to do so in the place dedicated to such. This isn’t censorship, by the way, but trying to tell you the canon which you constantly deny happening.

On a side note: it isn’t cogent with ArenaNet’s canon if your fanon is contradicting it.

I think the moderators of this forum can decide how much or not at all contradictory my story is to their story. After all I am only telling Anet story base on my understanding of theirs. The general reader of this thread can read how much or not at all I contradict in game content. I am speculating on lore despite calling it fan fiction base on Anet’s fiction.

Once again stop stealing other people’s thread and derailing it. You can make your own thread.

Avariz.8241:

Once again stop stealing other people’s thread and derailing it. You can make your own thread.

You are posting in a forum, the point of a forum is for people to be able to post responses and converse about things – nobody is “stealing” your threads…

This is the lore forum and as such what goes inside it pertains to the canon lore of the actual game itself, or to the speculation of unconfirmed or unknown aspects of the lore. In the case of the unknown people in the forum will discuss and point out what works and what doesn’t with anyones theory, this includes pointing out where someone has gone wrong or misunderstood the actual in game lore.

What you perceive as attacks on your personal opinion is actually people pointing out facts that are in game.

All anyone has ever done in response to your topic is point out the ACTUAL in game lore to show where your assertions and speculations are incorrect.

If you want to post fan-fic then post it in the appropriate forum section. If you don’t want people to respond to your ideas then the forum is not the right place for you.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Avariz.8241:

Once again stop stealing other people’s thread and derailing it. You can make your own thread.

You are posting in a forum, the point of a forum is for people to be able to post responses and converse about things – nobody is “stealing” your threads…

This is the lore forum and as such what goes inside it pertains to the canon lore of the actual game itself, or to the speculation of unconfirmed or unknown aspects of the lore. In the case of the unknown people in the forum will discuss and point out what works and what doesn’t with anyones theory, this includes pointing out where someone has gone wrong or misunderstood the actual in game lore.

What you perceive as attacks on your personal opinion is actually people pointing out facts that are in game.

All anyone has ever done in response to your topic is point out the ACTUAL in game lore to show where your assertions and speculations are incorrect.

If you want to post fan-fic then post it in the appropriate forum section. If you don’t want people to respond to your ideas then the forum is not the right place for you.

Make your own thread and put your particulars like that in there. Then you be happy I am sure so that I can continue with my thread. Thank you.

A point to consider, this is a PUBLIC forum for open discussion, NOT your personal property. I have read this thread from top to bottom, and even went as far as to look up the missions in question on the Gw1wiki, sir, you have your facts twisted. Stop getting defensive and hostile to the people that are trying to provide you the correct information. I do not wish to insult you, but you are becoming increasingly stubborn and hostile. The only thing "derailing thread is your own inability to comprehend that you got a few things wrong. I’m sorry, people make mistakes, learn from it and move on, but don’t take it out on here if you can’t handle that.

Cult practices is based on fiction too, and it has similar censorship and control logic. So, that is my opinion. I don’t want this thread to highlight that, but here you go. Scientology was created by a science fiction writer for example.

We expect all community members to be respectful of one another. Being rude to other community members for any reason is not allowed. This thread has been closed due to being posted in the wrong forum and derailing too far off topic. If you want to share your fan fiction, please do so in the appropriate subforum. Also, please use a descriptive thread title when creating new threads. Thank you for understanding.