Guild Wars 2

Since the Inquest could control the Risen in Arah, now the remaining Mordrem should be able to controlled by the same method.

In theory, any could, using the Inquest’s methods.

But they still spread corruption, and create new minions which would not be under control until those devices that allowed the Inquest to control them are placed on them (all Dominated Risen have asuran devices implanted onto them).

It would be really hard to control the whole, and the goal is to be rid of the dragon corruption entirely.

It’s like saying “we have seized an enemy’s nuclear warhead, so can we use it against the remaining enemies?”

Sure, you can. But you sure as hell don’t want to – unless you have no care for the landscape being usable for hundreds of years.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

In theory, any could, using the Inquest’s methods.

But they still spread corruption, and create new minions which would not be under control until those devices that allowed the Inquest to control them are placed on them (all Dominated Risen have asuran devices implanted onto them).

It would be really hard to control the whole, and the goal is to be rid of the dragon corruption entirely.

It’s like saying “we have seized an enemy’s nuclear warhead, so can we use it against the remaining enemies?”

Sure, you can. But you sure as hell don’t want to – unless you have no care for the landscape being usable for hundreds of years.

The dragon is dead, no corruption would be spread out.

Tell that to the NPCs at Tequatl. Or the freshly made risen in Arah.

Zhaitan died, but his corruption was spread through his champions still.

Maybe new corruption couldn’t be made – we’re not sure – but it still existed, and new minions were still being made.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Since the Inquest could control the Risen in Arah, now the remaining Mordrem should be able to controlled by the same method.

Who needs Mordrem when we have Sylvari? Basically they are dragon minions too but without any side effect of corruption spreading. We’ve hijacked dragon forces since a long time

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Tell that to the NPCs at Tequatl. Or the freshly made risen in Arah.

Zhaitan died, but his corruption was spread through his champions still.

Maybe new corruption couldn’t be made – we’re not sure – but it still existed, and new minions were still being made.

Is that what Sylvari terraforming is? Can they spread their uncorrupted magic?

That depends on how you define corruption, really. Ultimately, as far as we know and by all presentation, it’s just magic specified to that sphere of influence. But Elder Dragons are malignant and change things harmfully to the subject, while the purified minions/champions (Glint, Pale Tree, etc.) use non-harmful magic that can be used without altering those touched by the magic (such as with Zephyrite crystals holding Glint’s magic). Hard to say whether the “purified magic” transforms or creates things though, as Elder Dragon corruption never really creates (only possible case is Mordremoth’s plants, but even then, it seems to me to be more of changing local animal/plantlife and expanding what’s been corrupted).

One angle of consideration is… How much authority did Mordremoth give to the Mordrem Guard?

We’ve seen that, if isolated from Mordremoth’s voice, a Mordrem Guard can start reverting back to their original behaviour. If Mordremoth delegated any of the non-Mordrem Guard Mordrem to Mordrem Guard leaders, then the Mordrem Guard might retain control over those Mordrem as their original personality reasserts itself. If this does occur and the opportunity isn’t squandered, then it’s possible that the Pact might be able to make good on some of its losses by subverting Mordrem in this fashion.

And hey, it’d be one way to test if sylvari corruption resistance is anything special or if elder dragons can corrupt each other’s minions – although the usual caveat about proving negatives applies.

draxynnic.3719:

One angle of consideration is… How much authority did Mordremoth give to the Mordrem Guard?

We’ve seen that, if isolated from Mordremoth’s voice, a Mordrem Guard can start reverting back to their original behaviour. If Mordremoth delegated any of the non-Mordrem Guard Mordrem to Mordrem Guard leaders, then the Mordrem Guard might retain control over those Mordrem as their original personality reasserts itself. If this does occur and the opportunity isn’t squandered, then it’s possible that the Pact might be able to make good on some of its losses by subverting Mordrem in this fashion.

And hey, it’d be one way to test if sylvari corruption resistance is anything special or if elder dragons can corrupt each other’s minions – although the usual caveat about proving negatives applies.

I don’t think the commanders can control Mordrem guards, even Shadow of the Dragon didn’t turn the Sylvari to Mordremoth’ side when it attacked the Grove. It’s like a Hive structure, Mordremoth got mind connection with everything.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Tell that to the NPCs at Tequatl. Or the freshly made risen in Arah.

Zhaitan died, but his corruption was spread through his champions still.

Maybe new corruption couldn’t be made – we’re not sure – but it still existed, and new minions were still being made.

No, with Zhaitan dead, the corruption of Orr started to reverse.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Tell that to the NPCs at Tequatl. Or the freshly made risen in Arah.

Zhaitan died, but his corruption was spread through his champions still.

Maybe new corruption couldn’t be made – we’re not sure – but it still existed, and new minions were still being made.

No, with Zhaitan dead, the corruption of Orr started to reverse.

With Trahearne’s cleansing ritual, the corruption in Orr started to reverse. If it was just a matter of killing the dragon, why not skip the trouble of those last few story steps and jump straight to Arah?

Slowpokeking.8720:

No, with Zhaitan dead, the corruption of Orr started to reverse.

As Aaron said, the corruption only began to reverse because of Trahearne’s cleansing ritual. As Trahearne himself says, it could be re-corrupted by Zhaitan.

The cleansing has nothing to do with Zhaitan’s death, except preventing Zhaitan from re-corrupting it. And the cleansing only influenced Orr.

Tequatl Rising made it clear that the risen threat was still spreading, just not as majorly as when Zhaitan lived.

To Slowpokeking. No no and no, they are our enemy. Look at Risen, did we use them to kill Mordremoth? No, because it is IMPOSSIBLE.

I have to say, it was an interesting thought to me that After Mordremoth died, the Mordrem Guard might be freed from the call and have to come to terms with what they have done. Perhaps offer to assault a Dragon as penance for their failure to hold off Mordremoth’s call. I had the awesome idea of coming upon a battle with dozen of the copies of Diarmid and Hareth in an all out war with another dragon’s minions. Sadly, with Rox’s statement that the remaining Mordrem Guard are more riled up than ever leaves me to believe that it is more of a case of Mordremoth leaving parts of his mind in their heads, though it could also be a case of, again, trying to cope with what they have done.

What Rox says is that some mordrem have become “unhinged” without Mordremoth’s voice. This may not mean that they’re riled up, and her use of “some of them” implies not all mordrem have changed. Wouldn’t be surprising if she’s just referring to the Mordrem Guard in this (despite a clear difference, NPCs don’t really differentiate between mordrem and Mordrem Guard).

Honestly, first time I heard it I was thinking the Mordrem Guard have effectively gone to the looney bin in terms of how they act. Since that’s the usual meaning of the phrasing. But we don’t really know what it means, ultimately. It’s too vague.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

With Trahearne’s cleansing ritual, the corruption in Orr started to reverse. If it was just a matter of killing the dragon, why not skip the trouble of those last few story steps and jump straight to Arah?

Without Zhaitan’s death, the ritual would be pointless, the dragon was the source of corruption.

But just killing Zhaitan didn’t reverse the corruption – it just stopped Zhaitan from recorrupting a major power source.

However, Zhaitan’s death also doesn’t stop risen from corrupting things, as we see happen, with our own eyes, in Arah explorable, Seer Path

Konig Des Todes.2086:

As Aaron said, the corruption only began to reverse because of Trahearne’s cleansing ritual. As Trahearne himself says, it could be re-corrupted by Zhaitan.

The cleansing has nothing to do with Zhaitan’s death, except preventing Zhaitan from re-corrupting it. And the cleansing only influenced Orr.

Tequatl Rising made it clear that the risen threat was still spreading, just not as majorly as when Zhaitan lived.

Without Zhaitan killed it’s pointless as they’ve said in the quest, and other Risen could not corrupt the source again. No, the Risen were greatly weakened after Zhaitan’s death and was no longer the main focus anymore.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

But just killing Zhaitan didn’t reverse the corruption – it just stopped Zhaitan from recorrupting a major power source.

However, Zhaitan’s death also doesn’t stop risen from corrupting things, as we see happen, with our own eyes, in Arah explorable, Seer Path

If killing Zhaitan doesn’t stop Risen from corruption, then why didn’t Orr become corrupted again? No, those corruptions were done when Zhaitan was alive.

Orr didn’t become corrupted again because the Pact kept on fighting. It’s not like they went “welp, Zhaitan’s dead, time to pack up and move out!”

They kept fighting. They kept seeing corruption spread – we see corruption spread. They kept seeing new risen being made.

They may have kept the Artesian Waters from being corrupted again, but that didn’t purify all of Orr immediately (as we see in Arah explorable, the entire city remains corrupted at that point), nor would it purify the outer lands, nor would it cease what risen champions remain (such as Tequatl and those fought in Arah explorable) from spreading corruption.

Furthermore, nothing says the risen were “greatly weakened” – in fact, the story ends with these words about the risen:

Trahearne: With Zhaitan defeated, the corruption it wrought can be undone.
Trahearne: The dragon’s undead minions that still infest Tyria will now gradually be exterminated.

Can be undone. Not is.

Risen still infest Tyria, but will gradually be exterminate.

It went from a seemingly impossible battle against a foe with seemingly infinite minions and corruption to a possible battle against a foe with diminishing minions and corruption. But the minions and corruption is still there, and more can – and are – still made.

As an aside, the risen actually did become a main focus – for one release – with Tequatl’s power boost.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

….As an aside, the risen actually did become a main focus – for one release – with Tequatl’s power boost.

No, they made clear about it :

He knows that the purification of Orr will only last if the dragon is destroyed.

Trahearne: With Zhaitan defeated, the corruption it wrought can be undone.

The corruption was keep going because Zhaitan itself was still there and they were spreading corruption for the dragon. Without Zhaitan, there is no source or power to do so.

The journal made clear that they were switching focus after the dragon’s death. If the Risen didn’t get weakened, why did they decide to move on?

Zhaitan has fallen, and while the Pact’s work is far from over, we have achieved a major victory. We agreed to continue the fight against the remaining Elder Dragons after we take a moment to honor the fallen and celebrate this triumph.

I returned to Fort Trinity and joined the assembly of soldiers, scholars, spies and citizens celebrating the fall of Zhaitan. The Pact stood triumphant, but we did not delude ourselves. Swarms of Risen still roam Tyria, and there are four more Elder Dragons to contend with. We knew that soon we would once again rise up to defend our world, but that didn’t stop us from taking this opportunity to savor a well-earned victory.

Even Arah was the perfect example here:

Ogden Stonehealer: With Zhaitan’s defeat, we can explore the city of the human gods and uncover its secrets.

After Zhaitan’s death, the Pact was just cleaning the remaining Risen and at the same time doing research, the Inquest could even get in and dominated a bunch of Risen, pretty much occupied most of the Musaat path. This is the perfect proof of how weakened the Risen were, in the heart of their territory.

Yes Arah was still corrupted, but none of the Risen there was able to continue the corruption, and with Zhaitan dead+the Source cleansed, nothing will stop Orr from reversing the corruption. You are using a fallacy here. Zhaitan’s corruption didn’t directly go off with its death, but its corruption did stop there and started to reverse. Other Risen didn’t have the power to corrupt.

Nearly every use of the word “corrupt” in Arah was about Zhaitan or all of the dragons, not any of its Risen.

Varra Skylark: There! A jotun monument stone, uncorrupted by the Elder Dragon’s influence!

Warden Illyra: More importantly, it has remained uncorrupted either by Orr’s long immersion or by Zhaitan.

Warden Illyra: That body looks like a Giganticus Lupicus, corrupted by Zhaitan’s power.

A corrupted avatar of Balthazar, the god of war. Zhaitan’s power was immense to have corrupted an aspect of the gods.

Randall Greyston: This corrupted spawn of Zhaitan would sadden Melandru. Let me uncover the bloodstone shard.

A corrupted avatar of Melandru, the god of natur. How powerful are these Elder Dragons?

Randall Greyston: This is a holy place, overwhelmed by the corruption of the Dragons.

They even made clear about the Forgotten Tome cannot be corrupted by Zhaitan’s minions

Warden Illyra: They cannot corrupt the old Forgotten artifacts, but they can prevent others from using them.

Zhaitan had the power to corrupt, its Risen was bearing its power to spread the corruption, without Zhaitan, they could not do so. Like Mordremoth, the majority of Zhaitan’s power was burst out and went off. Without Zhaitan, its Risen was no longer the top threat anymore. All we’ve seen is some remaining Risen in Arah, the heart of the corruption along with Teq. None of them were able to spread corruption while they refuse to admit Zhaitan’s death. Nothing had ever said about Teq was spreading corruption.

It has returned to devour and destroy.

And the Pact didn’t send airships or armies to raid against it like they did to Orr. Just some commanders plus laser, working with the natives.

If you’ve actually played the game – which honestly I’m beginning to doubt is so – you’d have noticed that minions spread corruption to, as do champions at a much faster rate. Hell, one of the three core defining elements of “what makes a dragon minion a champion” is “it spreads corruption quickly”.

Illyra’s line was because of the Forgotten artifacts being immune, not because risen cannot spread corruption after Zhaitan’s death. I mean, that tome was there for 150 years with Zhaitan alive and looming over it, and it couldn’t be corrupted. Hell, all of the lines you refer to with uncorrupted things was with Zhaitan looming over it.

But you happen to overlook the High Priestess of Lyssa encounter, when she makes risen out of fresh corpses. Or when the same happens in an area just outside the High Priest of Grenth’s area.

Honestly, that’s all that’s needed to be known.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

If you’ve actually played the game – which honestly I’m beginning to doubt is so – you’d have noticed that minions spread corruption to, as do champions at a much faster rate. Hell, one of the three core defining elements of “what makes a dragon minion a champion” is “it spreads corruption quickly”.

Illyra’s line was because of the Forgotten artifacts being immune, not because risen cannot spread corruption after Zhaitan’s death. I mean, that tome was there for 150 years with Zhaitan alive and looming over it, and it couldn’t be corrupted. Hell, all of the lines you refer to with uncorrupted things was with Zhaitan looming over it.

But you happen to overlook the High Priestess of Lyssa encounter, when she makes risen out of fresh corpses. Or when the same happens in an area just outside the High Priest of Grenth’s area.

Honestly, that’s all that’s needed to be known.

I’ve went through all paths.

What corruption? Before Zhaitan’s death, they were using Zhaitan’s power to do so. With the dragon gone it’s no longer the case. Dragon champions were bearing more power from the dragon so they could corrupt faster, without their master they could no longer do so.

All of the lines point the corruption to Zhaitan, not any of its minions.

The priest of Lyssa was not making Risen, she was making clones of herself, it was mesmer magic and got nothing to do with corruption at all. The priest of Grenth’ area pop out some Risen, nowhere said they were created right way. It was made very clear that only the dragon got the power to spread corruption and the Risen had to rely on it. Without it they were just minor threat even in the heart of Zhaitan’s lair, even the Inquest could enslave a lot of them.

She doesn’t make risen during the fight, but before. Dead bodies pop up and fight you. It happens when you first meet her, while she’s under an illusion, IIRC, and maybe a second time.

Same with the priest of Grenth – it’s not during the fight, as I said it’s the area before the priest. Before you see him.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

She doesn’t make risen during the fight, but before. Dead bodies pop up and fight you. It happens when you first meet her, while she’s under an illusion, IIRC, and maybe a second time.

Same with the priest of Grenth – it’s not during the fight, as I said it’s the area before the priest. Before you see him.

More like Risen disguise in dead bodies.

As for Grenth encounter, we saw Risen pop out, but not like they were created, more like suddenly appeared.

No, they were actually risen being created. In both cases (again, I’m not talking about the priest of Grenth encounter but at The Wreck of the Scorchrazor within The Godpath Gardens with the event where you have to save Pact soldiers – those you don’t save turn into brand new risen).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

No, they were actually risen being created. In both cases (again, I’m not talking about the priest of Grenth encounter but at The Wreck of the Scorchrazor within The Godpath Gardens with the event where you have to save Pact soldiers – those you don’t save turn into brand new risen).

No, they were just poping from hiding, the Risen do that a lot like in the story of examining the Eye.

And other dragon minions could not be turned into Risen or Mordrem at all, that’s never something to consider.

The corpses that they were – or in the latter case, the allied NPCs – were not in hiding but in plain sight.

I’d comment with your second statement, but honestly that has zero bearing on this discussion.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The corpses that they were – or in the latter case, the allied NPCs – were not in hiding but in plain sight.

I’d comment with your second statement, but honestly that has zero bearing on this discussion.

No, it’s mostly the Risen from other places.

The topic is about using the Mordrem against other dragons.