Guild Wars 2

Hey,

Just like in topic but with some addition the question goes:

Can elemental possess and/or co-live in a body of a living creature? If not, what creatures can do that?

There was dialogue I found once that said that elementals are mindless. A mindless creature cannot posses such. So in turn, elementals wouldn’t be capable. Note, djinn are considered elementals by mechanics but they are certainly sapient.

As far as I remember, the only case of possessing we see is Bria’s shadow fiend minions taking over charr bodies – in the process they chase out the charr’s soul, so we never see any co-existence of souls. But this means that ghosts (as Shadow Fiends are Nightmares, which were one shown to be malevolent souls that became twisted in appearance) could possess a living body – but doing so would “kick out” the person’s soul.

I see, I see.

Huh, it’s quite a shame that elementals are just mindless tools but… In such case… Would that be possible for a scientist or any other kind of mage to literally put an elemental inside a living body? Not like a possession or any kind of co-existence but more like a source of a power? Or an additional power or just better connection to elemental’s element?

@Edit: Is it possible to do same things with demons and/or ghosts?

An elemental is basically one of the four elements taking solid form due to a build up of magic, as I understand it. I don’t believe the elemental itself has a lot of power (outside of a few exceptions), and I don’t think any of the various asura krewes we encounter have done anything like you describe, but I suppose it’s not outside the realm of possibility.

In it’s most raw form: it’s a sentient spirit of magic, that accumulates a body of any one kind it can react with. it can’t posess a living creature, but maybe it can make like a golem of flesh or bone

The only case of an “elemental” being put inside a living being resulted in this and this pretty quickly, and that’s a case for a highly magical crystal (for those reading instead of clicking images first: bloodstone abominations).

I do not believe there is any other case of an elemental being placed inside a living being, but I’d imagine it’d just be a case of moving rocks (or w/e element) inside the body… not very pleasant or beneficial.

I suppose a power crystal of some form could be ‘implanted’ in a being to produce similar but potentially less harmful results of the bloodstone cases.

Further, excluding bloodstone elementals, the only elementals that would honestly provide a good power boost would be the “Greater Elementals” but the only interaction between such and individuals are just casters summoning a Greater Elemental – but while summoned, they’re left unable to fend for themselves (Ulgoth’s elemental hands, Iron March’s Fire Shaman’s fire elemental, Frozen Maw’s shaman’s ice elemental). They are certainly too large to be placed within a being.

It should be noted that djinn have a long history of being used to power golems – both asuran golems as well as other constructs, like the Iron Forgeman from GW1 – as have souls been. Further, souls could in theory be placed in elementals (akin to how Shiro’ken were made); this is one of the leading theories regarding the oddities that are Isgarran’s Tamed Elementals.

matthias is not an example of an elemental being put inside a human, where did you get that idea?
he’s a human corrupted by bloodstone, thats someone 100% different, caudecus is the same setting, bloodstones aren’t elemental creatures.
Yes, we can see bloodstone elementals in the Fen, but thats again, a different kind of thing.

EDIT: a bloodstone crystal is a crystallized form of magic that leaks from the bloodstones. It’s able to become a sentient anomaly, but what matthias and caudecus absorbed wasn’t that. I highly doubt it’s still possible to absorb bloodstone after it’s become an elemental, you would either break the magical sentience, or absorb it along with the crystals

There is a reason why I put quotation marks around elemental.

As shown in the journals in Bloodstone Fen, the process Matthias underwent was basically embedding bloodstone shards in the body. Elementals are effectively highly magical elements that become sentient (but not sapient) and mobile; as seen in Arah explorable, even a shard can show sentience without becoming mobile.

So not only are bloodstone shards fully capable of becoming elementals, they can even act like psuedo-elementals when alone. So long as there is sufficient magic in the shard, (unlike the dust, bricks, and small shards we utilize throughout), they gain some form of nigh-mindless sentience.

We still do not know the full nature of the bloodstones, but they have shown to be anything but mere catalysts for magic.

While I agree a single shard or solid piece is able to show elemental tendencies, we have not been shown a single instance where a bloodstone crystal is able to do so, as a result, I think it’s a bit too farfetched to assume that matthias and caudecus were possesed by bloodstone elementals. Due to the nature of bloodstone crystal I’m already having enough trouble to accept the existence of normal elementals. It feels like anet horseshoed something illogical into the game just for the sake of having something to hit.

I really believe it’s just the mind of the human returning to a primal.. or aggressive state, when exposed to so much power within their bodies. LSS, whatever’s inside caudecus and matthias is not an elemental, or at least, I have no reason to believe such. besides, the bloodstones were absorbed, so would be any magical sentience if there was any. If there was, it propably wouldn’t have been very strong or durable. it would only have been a catalyst to the already rampaging sapience.

The bloodstones lying around in his basement weren’t sentient. The sentient energies that make up elementals are usually formed from lingering or untouched magic that has no place to go anywhere. The crystals lying around didn’t show any sign of sentience. Only when amassed in large concentrations do their leaking energies seem to conjure up magical storms and anomalies, but these as well show no signs of sentience. Just that, energy or magic gone crazy without aim, just random chaos.

Amaimon.7823:

I think it’s a bit too farfetched to assume that matthias and caudecus were possesed by bloodstone elementals.

I think that might actually be Konig’s point: those would be cases which one might think could cause elemental possession if that was possible, but all evidence we have thus far indicate that they’ve just gone crazy.

Personally, though, I think what happened to Randall Greyston might be a case of being possessed by the sentience of a bloodstone. Generally speaking, though, what sentience elementals have appears to be tied to their physical bodies: they don’t really have the ability to force their sentience into others and possess them.

Djinn… might. They seem to be more like the sapient races in that they have a spirit (or some equivalent therof) that can survive without a physical body and be placed into a construct as an animating force. It might, then, be possible for djinn to possess other beings. I don’t think we’ve ever seen evidence that they can, though.

(Broadly speaking, regarding elementals: The lore is that elementals arise when there’s an excess amount of magic in an area, causing the elements to come alive. So bloodstone “elementals” make sense under the right circumstances, since bloodstone is so soaked in magic.)

Amaimon.7823:

I think it’s a bit too farfetched to assume that matthias and caudecus were possesed by bloodstone elementals.

I never once claimed such, nor was I ever using the bloodstones in reference to the OP’s original question. I suggest you read an entire thread next time, before responding to posts.

I stated that the only case of utilizing crystals of any magical value to alter someone (and using elementals to do such – without possession – was the second question posed by the OP) would be the situations involving Matthias and Caudecus. I further stated that bloodstones have shown the capability of becoming elementals, even in singular shards. Please read my posts properly.

What this ultimately means is that the answer to OP’s second question (again: can one alter an individual by implanting an elemental inside them) would be “we only have reason to believe such would work if it’s bloodstone elementals”.

Again, I never talked about bloodstones in relation to possession.

The only case of an “elemental” being put inside a living being resulted in this and this pretty quickly, and that’s a case for a highly magical crystal (for those reading instead of clicking images first: bloodstone abominations).
When you say stuff like that, you force a discussion in one direction. Just saying you put it in quotation marks doens’t mean you’re free to say whatever you like.

President Obama was a “terrorist” as we can see on the covers of the last donald duck.
Now you will begin telling me how obama isn’t a terrorist, and I can say to you that it wasn’t what I said and you should read my entire post before you start making claims.

@amaimon read the OP. Konig was talking about coliving, not possession.
“Can elemental possess and/or co-live in a body of a living creature? If not, what creatures can do that?”

@rognik & drax

The concept of an elemental is weird. There are leyline, and ether elementals, neither of which are fire/water/air/earth.

‘Elemental’ seems to be a broad term for “creature made from a single substance/phase, which shouldn’t be alive, but is due to being animated by magic”.

That said, things like the leyline coalescences and bloodstone elementals could be viewed as essentially being air and earth elementals respectively: just that they have even more magic in them than typical elementals.

draxynnic.3719:

‘Elemental’ seems to be a broad term for “creature made from a single substance/phase, which shouldn’t be alive, but is due to being animated by magic”.

That said, things like the leyline coalescences and bloodstone elementals could be viewed as essentially being air and earth elementals respectively: just that they have even more magic in them than typical elementals.

I don’t doubt the single substance aspect, I doubt any use of ‘the’ before elements. Roaring Ethers, tar elementals, and carven effigy defy such division.

I’d call that another unfortunate case of the language using similar words to describe different concepts – particularly since the first known elementals were formed of the classic elements.

Elemental (creature): A creature formed from a single homogenous substance and animated by magic. This substance could be one of the elements (fire, air, earth, water) or some other substance.

The elements (classical/magical): The basic building blocks from which other substances are formed. Traditionally fire, air, earth and water in most cases, although some systems add additional elements.

In short, just because there are creatures called “elementals” that are not based on fire, air, earth and water does not mean that the division into four basic elements is incorrect (in the Guild Wars universe, obviously it is incorrect in the real world) although there may be other elements as well. It just means that, despite the incomplete knowledge of whoever first called them “elementals”, an “elemental” creature does not need to be composed of a single pure element.

@Amaimon: You took the situation to a completely different level while entirely ignoring my previous post. I think that means we’re done here.

@Daniel: Roaring Ethers were largely made out of stone, despite their names. Carven Effigies were basically animated sarcophagi – though they were labeled elementals by mechanic, they are in lore closer to constructs. Same with the stone guardians in Factions – mechanically elementals, but in lore they’re man-made animated constructs through and through.

I wouldn’t call those weird.

Plus, nothing ever really restricted elementals to being the four main elements of fire, earth, air, and water. After all, we had crystal, sand, and ice elementals in Prophecies. To quote the infamous Redcloak “It’s not my fault everyone else limits themselves to four elements. Some of us got passing grades in Chem.”

Konig Des Todes.2086:

@Amaimon: You took the situation to a completely different level while entirely ignoring my previous post. I think that means we’re done here.

@Daniel: Roaring Ethers were largely made out of stone, despite their names. Carven Effigies were basically animated sarcophagi – though they were labeled elementals by mechanic, they are in lore closer to constructs. Same with the stone guardians in Factions – mechanically elementals, but in lore they’re man-made animated constructs through and through.

I wouldn’t call those weird.

Plus, nothing ever really restricted elementals to being the four main elements of fire, earth, air, and water. After all, we had crystal, sand, and ice elementals in Prophecies. To quote the infamous Redcloak “It’s not my fault everyone else limits themselves to four elements. Some of us got passing grades in Chem.”

Again I do not debate any of this. The point was just that elements does not always mean “the elements.” Perhaps weird wasn’t the best word, but the homonyms throughout the subject are, as drax put it, unfortunate. For instance fire the substance, fire the attunement, holy fire, dhummfire.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

@Amaimon: You took the situation to a completely different level while entirely ignoring my previous post. I think that means we’re done here.

So let me summarize:
you make a claim
I counter that claim
you counter that claim not by an argument but saying “you didn’t the read the topic, and I put the claim in quotation marks, so I can retract the claim when I see fit”
I copy your claim to show just how weird your argument sounded
you don’t like it and insult me for it.

okay, I was just making sure on what level you operate in a discussion, now I know, so I can just focus on OP instead of you

draxynnic.3719:

‘Elemental’ seems to be a broad term for “creature made from a single substance/phase, which shouldn’t be alive, but is due to being animated by magic”.

That said, things like the leyline coalescences and bloodstone elementals could be viewed as essentially being air and earth elementals respectively: just that they have even more magic in them than typical elementals.

it doesn’t even have to be a single substance:
“a sentience (not sapience) born from magical abundance, that inhibits a body otherwise inanimate” I think is the most correct description of an elemental. Supposedly, a body made of a single material might be easier to stick together.
So in general, I believe (while it won’t happen in nature) its possible for a piece of siege equipment to become an “elemental” if it’s left to gather rust in an environment that’s abundant in magic

Amaimon.7823:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

@Amaimon: You took the situation to a completely different level while entirely ignoring my previous post. I think that means we’re done here.

So let me summarize:
you make a claim
I counter that claim
you counter that claim not by an argument but saying “you didn’t the read the topic, and I put the claim in quotation marks, so I can retract the claim when I see fit”
I copy your claim to show just how weird your argument sounded
you don’t like it and insult me for it.

okay, I was just making sure on what level you operate in a discussion, now I know, so I can just focus on OP instead of you

The thing is that I never made the claim you claim I made (that elementals can possess someone, or that Matthias/Caudecus were being possessed by the bloodstone shards).

I never said I can retract the claim I made. I said I used quotation marks because it’s similar but not exactly correct (the bloodstone shards in questions are highly magical stones, like what comprise elementals, but are not actually elementals). Your political strawman comparison was a drastic extreme that is neither correct nor similar.

I made this pointblank clear three times, and you continue to say I said something I didn’t, and go into politics which I outright want to avoid because I’m bombarded with that idiocracy every day.

If you wish, you can carry on, but if you keep on this twisting of words, I shall not respond.

@Kokittens just leave it at a language barrier, then

If you think about dragons and their minions then yes, elementals can possess sentient and non sentient creatures.

In kessex hills there are elementals who shows very small sings of sentience but they are thought to be villagers who were “chosen” to live in wizards tower but instead turned into immortal mindless slaves.
Its still open to discussion, who knows.

With djinns, mordremoth and sylvaris having no brain yet still having consciousness and in a way soul, we can make the claim that non living objects can have it.

But what is realy weird is why all elementalst that we see until this day is always in humanoid form and not like cats,dogs,spiders,snakes ?

Is their form is the choice of magic?
Then what is magic?
And why mindless elementals can be aggressive almost like “Thaumanova Anomaly”

My guess/fantasy is like dragons have their own minions, all elementals are minions of tyria.
For a very long time there werent any strong elementals but now we have started to kill of dragons and tyria is regaining magic and uses it to kill us, races who are feeding on it like viruses.

StayNight.5328:

If you think about dragons and their minions then yes, elementals can possess sentient and non sentient creatures.

In kessex hills there are elementals who shows very small sings of sentience but they are thought to be villagers who were “chosen” to live in wizards tower but instead turned into immortal mindless slaves.
Its still open to discussion, who knows.

With djinns, mordremoth and sylvaris having no brain yet still having consciousness and in a way soul, we can make the claim that non living objects can have it.

But what is realy weird is why all elementalst that we see until this day is always in humanoid form and not like cats,dogs,spiders,snakes ?

Is their form is the choice of magic?
Then what is magic?
And why mindless elementals can be aggressive almost like “Thaumanova Anomaly”

My guess/fantasy is like dragons have their own minions, all elementals are minions of tyria.
For a very long time there werent any strong elementals but now we have started to kill of dragons and tyria is regaining magic and uses it to kill us, races who are feeding on it like viruses.

Sylvari do have brains, just not ‘meat’ brains. They are patterned after humans and have all the same organs, just plant based instead of ‘meat’ based.

Moonyeti.3296:

Sylvari do have brains, just not ‘meat’ brains. They are patterned after humans and have all the same organs, just plant based instead of ‘meat’ based.

But they have holes everywhere, id say they just look a like but not function the same way as humans do.
Like they have males and females but cant reproduce.
Bisexual and not at the same time because its not even relevant question.
Puppet body energy mind, you name it.

StayNight.5328:

If you think about dragons and their minions then yes, elementals can possess sentient and non sentient creatures.

Dragons are not elementals so I’m not sure where you’re getting the connection. While they do turn creatures into elemental-like beings, dragon minions are not elementals.

StayNight.5328:

In kessex hills there are elementals who shows very small sings of sentience but they are thought to be villagers who were “chosen” to live in wizards tower but instead turned into immortal mindless slaves.
Its still open to discussion, who knows.

That’s a player theory with no real solid support to it. We just know that the “Tamed Elementals” behave very oddly.

StayNight.5328:

With djinns, mordremoth and sylvaris having no brain yet still having consciousness and in a way soul, we can make the claim that non living objects can have it.

Nothing actually says sylvari or other dragon minions have souls, technically speaking.

StayNight.5328:

But what is realy weird is why all elementalst that we see until this day is always in humanoid form and not like cats,dogs,spiders,snakes ?

Uh… air elementals? Rather insectoid.

Or how about the greater elementals (excluding earth) being cyclones.

StayNight.5328:

My guess/fantasy is like dragons have their own minions, all elementals are minions of tyria.
For a very long time there werent any strong elementals but now we have started to kill of dragons and tyria is regaining magic and uses it to kill us, races who are feeding on it like viruses.

Interesting concept but unlikely. Little suggests Tyria is alive and if it were to be, then what little we have to suggest such implies that it’s in favor of the races of Tyria, and against the Elder Dragons.

Further, not all elementals are hostile – some are only hostile when threatened.

Moonyeti.3296:

Sylvari do have brains, just not ‘meat’ brains. They are patterned after humans and have all the same organs, just plant based instead of ‘meat’ based.

They’ve been officially stated to not have the same organs as humans. A specific example was that they do not have a heart to pump their sap-for-blood, and while they have a digestive track it does not consist of a stomach, bladder, intestines, etc. but organs that perform similar (digesting food) functions.

There’s technically nothing saying that they have a brain as we would understand it. They may not have a single organ that functions as a brain, for example, but the entire nervous system sharing the function of a brain.

Forgive and inform me about my mistakes

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Dragons are not elementals so I’m not sure where you’re getting the connection. While they do turn creatures into elemental-like beings, dragon minions are not elementals.

Yet all dragons have a very specific elements that belongs (in a way) to them.
It seems to me that when magic gets concentrated in a spot, it creates matter.
But even while matter is created it develops its consciousness with either more time or magic. (little bit of ying, little bit of yang you get gods and dragons(When it comes to mists, its all about probability even if its very small))

Konig Des Todes.2086:

.That’s a player theory with no real solid support to it. We just know that the “Tamed Elementals” behave very oddly.

Indeed there is no proof as much as we might not have get out of omadd’s machine.
When there isnt any information enough to give you conclusion, you make wild guesses.(or atleast i do)

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Uh… air elementals? Rather insectoid.

Indeed, i did not thought about that one.
I had only earth,ice,fire and bloodstone in mind. You are right.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Interesting concept but unlikely. Little suggests Tyria is alive and if it were to be, then what little we have to suggest such implies that it’s in favor of the races of Tyria, and against the Elder Dragons.

Doesnt supposed to be.
Normaly “enemy of my enemy” motto might have work but this is a planet.
It might turn out to be that dragons are our true friends.
You know good old bubbles and kralkatorrik who have learned asura-hood from snaff?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Further, not all elementals are hostile – some are only hostile when threatened.

In my knowledge there isnt any other “green” elementals anywhere else but at Wizard’s Tower/Fief.
It may be just that “orange” ones are away from “drone controling signals”? so there are on auto-pilot, while red ones are close to touch of tyria’s core?
Think it as “Leyline” if you must.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

-but the entire nervous system sharing the function of a brain.

I like that idea

StayNight.5328:

Yet all dragons have a very specific elements that belongs (in a way) to them.

This doesn’t make them elementals, however, nor elemental-like. Elementals by definition are elements animated by magic (either naturally or by a spellcaster). Dragons, however, are turning Material A into Material B. In other words, elementals are just adding minor sentience to naturally formed objects, while dragon minions are transforming things into some form of element.

In the same way that risen are not technically undead, branded are technically not earth elementals and icebrood are not technically ice elementals, despite being moving things of limited sentience of those elements.

StayNight.5328:

I believe consciousness and soul is the same thing. One word shows what it is, other shows where it is while none of them have any real proof.

Real life philosophies aside, Guild Wars has a very real appearance of souls, and we know that not all things animated will have such. At the same time, we never see anything resembling a soul coming from sylvari or any other dragon minion, with the sole exception of risen having souls entrapped within them. There are many minions, in fact, that are created from bodies in which the souls are separated and we even interact with those souls – Aliyana and Romke (and his crew) being main examples of the later, while King Reza is a prime example of the former.

Given that we’ve seen soulless things with consciousness (of varying degrees), we can also say that soul and consciousness are not the same in the setting of Guild Wars.

StayNight.5328:

Doesnt supposed to be.
Normaly “enemy of my enemy” motto might have work but this is a planet.
It might turn out to be that dragons are our true friends.
You know good old bubbles and kralkatorrik who have learned asura-hood from snaff?

Here is one of the few lines implying Tyria has a consciousness:

Avatar of the Tree: The soul of Tyria mourned as her children were cut down by the beast. The land wept, and the world shuddered.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/A_Light_in_the_Darkness#In_the_Omphalos_Chamber

If the “soul of Tyria” was controlling the elementals to kill the races, well, it wouldn’t mourn for “her children” (aka the races) killed at Claw Island.

And the Elder Dragons are most definitely not friendly. If they were, they wouldn’t actively destroy countless civilizations with proclamations of ruling, enslaving, controlling, consuming, or possessing all things.

StayNight.5328:

In my knowledge there isnt any other “green” elementals anywhere else but at Wizard’s Tower/Fief.
It may be just that “orange” ones are away from “drone controling signals”? so there are on auto-pilot, while red ones are close to touch of tyria’s core?
Think it as “Leyline” if you must.

There are the ley line elementals that are green. But I was mainly referring to the neutral (or “orange” – I’d call that yellow though) elementals across the world.

Incidentally, those who would be “closest to the touch of Tyria’s core” would be those at ley lines, and those are the friendliest elementals (both the ley line coalescences and the earth and air elementals in the ley lines area of Bloodstone Fen).

Pale tree can communicate with tyria? maybe she is just being poetic?
So humans are like adopted childeren.
How can tyria accept something that is not a part of it(hooman) while it rejects its own dragons.
Sure dragons can be parasites which their origin may not be of tyria just like humans.
Or simplier answer would be that tyria does not have a will of its own and ive been on the wrong path for a very long time thanks to a thaumanova video of woodenpotatoes.
(he was also guessing. so no bad feelings.)

And i always thought tyria dragons as elements that just happen to look like t-rex with wings.
I wonder how did dragons get their powers before everything began.
Cause it appears that they can suck each others off.
It doesnt stick with them.
Were they absorbing pure magic and change it, or they just happen to get their specific types and wouldnt touch other ones before.
Or they are coming from different realms.
Im still insisting on them being created from very the elements that they use.

Then what is important about tyria? is it just a random place in endlessness of the mists or it has an importance?

Questions with no answers nor real purpose other than to think about it, i love them the most.
It has been a good thought train for me.
Thanks Konig Des Todes

StayNight.5328:

Yet all dragons have a very specific elements that belongs (in a way) to them.
It seems to me that when magic gets concentrated in a spot, it creates matter.
But even while matter is created it develops its consciousness with either more time or magic. (little bit of ying, little bit of yang you get gods and dragons(When it comes to mists, its all about probability even if its very small))

I could be wrong, but I think it’s less that matter is actually created and more that that element is collected together into a mobile form. I don’t know if Tyria has the Law of the Conservation of Matter/Energy/Magic, but I think it would be a decent starting point until we have reason to think otherwise.

StayNight.5328:

And now when i think about it, the shape of bloodstone elementals might be coming from those who were sacrificed and trapped inside it.
And humanoid anomalies might be the part of those who got out of bloodstone.
Thats why they are sad all the time?
And are asuras making experiments about this on humans? (fractals)

Bloodstones are making those effected to become thirsty for power and get mad, just a bit.
So maybe magic really have qualities like ying and yang.
Cause those who are freed from bloodstone are “white” and cry-babies?

The shape of the bloodstone elementals are the same as earth elementals. While that might be conservation of models on the game’s side, I’d like to think it means more that it’s because bloodstones are earthen. Most creatures on Tyria are humanoid in some form, so I don’t think the exact form means anything other than how easy/quickly it moves about.

As far as the bloodstones themselves are concerned, perhaps when magic is that concentrated, it acts as a sort of mental poisoning. Consuming the bloodstone dust makes them more powerful but also has bad consequences for the consumer. It’s similar to how certain things are tolerable and useful in low concentrations, but can be poisonous in high concentrations.

StayNight.5328:

In my knowledge there isnt any other “green” elementals anywhere else but at Wizard’s Tower/Fief.
It may be just that “orange” ones are away from “drone controling signals”? so there are on auto-pilot, while red ones are close to touch of tyria’s core?

Sure, there are no other strictly friendly elementals, but neither are there strictly friendly bats or grubs while they can also be either hostile or neutral. I haven’t noticed a pattern behind what motivates them to be aggressive or neutral, but maybe there isn’t a strict pattern to it, either.

Those are just some random thoughts on the matter.

Rognik.2579:

I could be wrong, but I think it’s less that matter is actually created and more that that element is collected together into a mobile form. I don’t know if Tyria has the Law of the Conservation of Matter/Energy/Magic, but I think it would be a decent starting point until we have reason to think otherwise.

There are skills that turn your boons to conditions and conditions to boons.
Also condition removals,drawing and sending conditions are a bit weird on itself cause you (in a way) shift reality each time.
Butterfly effects on mesmer skills might have a totally different meaning in that perspective.

It might be that magic is just magic.
With no attributes by itself but thought capability(?) of sentient ones might be limiting their usage of potentialy limitless magic?
Example of it; electromagnetic spectrum being magic, those who see all known colors and being totaly colorblind is difference for all different types of sentience.
I wonder what happened to golems who helped all asuras to get out of their hikikomori syndrome in underground and sail to new lands.

Sorry i got too away from the main subject. Just had to say it.

StayNight.5328:

There are skills that turn your boons to conditions and conditions to boons.
Also condition removals,drawing and sending conditions are a bit weird on itself cause you (in a way) shift reality each time.
Butterfly effects on mesmer skills might have a totally different meaning in that perspective.

Boons to conditions and the reverse is a transformation, as it doesn’t really get rid of the boon or the condition, just changes its form. That’s the definition of conservation. However, if you want me to defend the stance, I will:
*Boon magic is summoning magic around you to give a positive effect (swiftness, healing, might). Imagine it like a ball of water surrounding you, slowly dripping out as the effect is applied.
*Condition magic is summoning magic to inflict a negative effect on your enemy (cripple, bleeding, weakness). This is also like a ball of water ticking down, except the water is poison or acid.
*Boon stripping or condition cleansing is taking that ball around the person and dispersing it back into the ether from which it came. The thief stealing boons is transferring that water from the target to him/her.
*I don’t have a good allegory for the drawing or spreading conditions/boons, but for spreading it, it’s taking a snapshot copy of the condition at that moment and giving it to all targets while drawing is taking all of them and dumping it into one pot, keeping only the one with the biggest capacity. It works out in my head, but I don’t have the words to express it.

StayNight.5328:

It might be that magic is just magic.
With no attributes by itself but thought capability(?) of sentient ones might be limiting their usage of potentialy limitless magic?
Example of it; electromagnetic spectrum being magic, those who see all known colors and being totaly colorblind is difference for all different types of sentience.
I wonder what happened to golems who helped all asuras to get out of their hikikomori syndrome in underground and sail to new lands.

Magic definitely has rules. It’s not entirely limitless. Gorr found that the dragons were eating magic because the levels of ambient magic was going down. How strong those rules are is up to ArenaNet to decide, and keeping them as vague as possible for non-player characters allows them to have more freedom for new classes or story beats in the future.

The definition of sapience is the ability to recognise the self and hold complex ideas, which for Tyria defines all the greater and lesser races. Sentience is the ability to move around with a purpose. For example, cats are sentient but not sapient (as far as we know). Most people would not qualify golems as sentient, because they need to be programmed and controlled to move about. Elementals definitely move about, and can use skills either when an enemy approached or attacks, but it’s hard to say if they’re sentient or enacting some weird programming from errant magic.

Also, asura were not hikikomori. Sure, they lived underground, but they had massive interconnected chambers under Tyria. They were chased out because of Primordus waking up and the destroyers flooding those caverns. As for the golems from back then, I don’t remember if they were new upon reaching the surface or just something they always had, but they either broke down, as machines will do in time, or got upgraded as golem tech progressed.

Rognik.2579:

Boons to conditions and the reverse is a transformation, as it doesn’t really get rid of the boon or the condition, just changes its form. That’s the definition of conservation. However, if you want me to defend the stance, I will:
*Boon magic is summoning magic around you to give a positive effect (swiftness, healing, might). Imagine it like a ball of water surrounding you, slowly dripping out as the effect is applied.
*Condition magic is summoning magic to inflict a negative effect on your enemy (cripple, bleeding, weakness). This is also like a ball of water ticking down, except the water is poison or acid.

@Boon magic; i think what you say is true but may* not be the whole deal.
[spoiler=Almost all boons and their possible explanations]
-Protection = thickness of bones?/skin?(or like protego from harry potter?)
-Fury = better sight or chance for hitting critital points of enemies?(thanks to aoe’s it might be chance.(but something that increases your chance would also mean that it isnt chance.(magic find might be just a pure game mechanic and not related.(precursor drops from a simple deer?))))
-Quickness = hyperactivity?
-Regenaration = cells working harder to fix/reproduce?
-Swiftness = rush of adrenaline?
-Vigor = something that would makes sense but i cant think of it now?

And those that isnt in harmony with these are = Aegis,Might(not sure about this one),Retaliation and Stability [/spoiler]

What about Resistance?
Well it is interesting that resistance came out after zhaitan died.
That the magic that got out is not pure but have the information of zhaitans abilities.
Which we have seen it with other dragons.
So why cant we use his information?/affinity?/parts? for our selves.
It might be upgrading your already existing resistance (to magic?) or nullifying decayment on its host.(Which can actualy be like bacteria that you force it to activate by sending/using specific type of skills.(or yes a like magical ball around.)
(I have this idea that necromancers might be all about biology)

Rognik.2579:

*Boon stripping or condition cleansing is taking that ball around the person and dispersing it back into the ether from which it came. The thief stealing boons is transferring that water from the target to him/her.
*I don’t have a good allegory for the drawing or spreading conditions/boons, but for spreading it, it’s taking a snapshot copy of the condition at that moment and giving it to all targets while drawing is taking all of them and dumping it into one pot, keeping only the one with the biggest capacity. It works out in my head, but I don’t have the words to express it.

So it is information reading and de-casting it?
Makes kinda* sense when you think about mesmers mimic skill even with all versions of it(old n new).

For other parts of your comment i either agree or just dont have much information to have an idea worth spreading.

(you know that i was joking on hikikomori part right?)

I am giving up on this subject. Thanks all