Can the dragons control the Foefire?
IF one of the dragons could, it would be Jormag(meant to say Zhaitan, lol), since the Ghosts are undead.
However the ghosts are immune to dragon corruption.
Zhaitan didn’t CONTROL Orrian magic. He controlled Orrian magic USERS after they became risen, there is a difference.
(edited by GrandHaven.1052)
I would say no, for Kralkatorrik, at the least. We see in Blazeridge ghosts fighting Branded, and they were probably in the Brand when it was made. Orr, on the other hand, we know is susceptible to Zhaitan- all of the zones are rife with examples of Orrian magic twisted into risen service. Maybe the Foefire is something else we don’t understand yet, or maybe it’s an example of something Zhaitan can do and Kralk can’t (or doesn’t), or maybe it’s nothing to do with the magic and it’s just that spirits can’t be corrupted- after all, there are a few examples of ghosts with risen bodies roaming elsewhere, although Reza does present a prominent counter-argument.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
That’s the best explanation I gather, that dragons simply cannot turn souls themselves. It’s fortunate Zhaitan never reached Ascalon. The Charr would have been wiped out with the amount of corpses in the catacombs.
The swords are said to come from Orr, but not from whom in Orr. They predate the Exodus, so it’s possible they were made with divine magic given the ghosts’ immunity to Kralkatorrik’s corruption (take note of S2E8 where divine fire is used to kill a said-to-be-immortal dragon champion).
As for dragons corrupting souls – Eir says Jormag does in one of the early PS steps, but this may be a simple metaphorical statement.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
As evidenced by the mursaat, it seems the dragons cannot reach into and spread their corruption to the mists. Since the souls of the dead belong to the mists, it’s fair to say souls cannot be corrupted.
For example despite having been on the cursed shore for a long time, the souls of Romke and his crew are not corrupted by zhaitan however you can find their corrupted bodies animated by zhaitan.
This does raise some interesting questions regarding some of zhaitans minions. For example the abominations will sometimes say things like “home” or “what have I done”, implying a fraction of their former self remains. Makes you wonder wether their souls are trapped in their body when they get corrupted.
On the other hand there's also the eyes of zhaitan, but then the last king of orr's spirit may just have lingered because of how he died rather than by zhaitan's corruption.
That’s the best explanation I gather, that dragons simply cannot turn souls themselves. It’s fortunate Zhaitan never reached Ascalon. The Charr would have been wiped out with the amount of corpses in the catacombs.
“Their bodies were blasted into burning fragments, but their spirits remained standing.”
The Foefire emulated the whole nation of Ascalon. There were no corpses left, only some bones on the outer edges and the long dead.
The Ascalonian Catacombs house the corpses of the long dead, before the Foefire was used. You ca hear commentary on it in AC itself and in the Charr’s intro story.
The Ascalonian Catacombs house the corpses of the long dead, before the Foefire was used. You ca hear commentary on it in AC itself and in the Charr’s intro story.
Obviously, but why does it deserve special mention above any other part of Tyria?
The whole of the hill Divinity’s Reach is built on is a massive catacomb too.
The Ascalonian Catacombs house the corpses of the long dead, before the Foefire was used. You ca hear commentary on it in AC itself and in the Charr’s intro story.
Obviously, but why does it deserve special mention above any other part of Tyria?
The whole of the hill Divinity’s Reach is built on is a massive catacomb too.
The Ascalonian catacombs are much more extensive than the ones in DR, and much more populous, I do not doubt. Apparently the catacomb under the city does predate GW1, but nonetheless it was the custom of past Krytans to lay their dead to rest in boats cast adrift in their swamps, rather than entombing them in crypts.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
As evidenced by the mursaat, it seems the dragons cannot reach into and spread their corruption to the mists. Since the souls of the dead belong to the mists, it’s fair to say souls cannot be corrupted.
This isn’t true…
- Svanir had skills named with “Spirit” including one stating he hides in the spirit realm. Those who know Norn and canthan lore will recognize that the spirit realm is just another term for the Mists. Basically, Svanir was able to pull a mursaat/spirit move, which becoming Ascended (or Weh no Su – them being the same thing through different means) is meant to allow one to see through (yet we couldn’t).
- In the Norn storyline, Jormag sends icebrood into the Mists through the Sons of Svanir.
- At the Frozen Maw meta, Jormag uses Portals to get he Mists – these portals share the same appearance as the Frozen Portal in Frostgorge.
- Snowblind Fractal deals with Jormag’s corruption at the end; it lies in the Mists. Unlikely to be his actual corruption, mind you, but worth mentioning in the chance it is.
- In the Cathedral of Silence PS step, Zhaitan is stated to have pulled a spirit, that of the Keeper of the Shrine, put of the Mists themselves. Stated by a Reaper of Grenth. I think the Reapers know their own business.
So Jormag has a huge influence in the Mists, and even Zhaitan could pull souls from there to inhabit his more powerful minions (his nigh mindless grunts like what Romke and crew’s bodies were into appearance soulless while the more powerful ones appear to have souls trapped within).
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
- In the Norn storyline, Jormag sends icebrood into the Mists through the Sons of Svanir.
Although this seems to be an indirect benefit of having Norn as minions more than an actual ability of Jormag himself, so I still think that in the case of the Mursaat and the previous rising that the dragons might not have had the ability or particularly cared to enter the mists. Oddly enough since the mists are magical, and they eat magic.
- In the Cathedral of Silence PS step, Zhaitan is stated to have pulled a spirit, that of the Keeper of the Shrine, put of the Mists themselves. Stated by a Reaper of Grenth. I think the Reapers know their own business.
Well he did have the corpse, so maybe Zhaitan can pull spirit from the mists as long as he has something to physically link to the spirit? Or maybe not.
- In the Norn storyline, Jormag sends icebrood into the Mists through the Sons of Svanir.
Although this seems to be an indirect benefit of having Norn as minions more than an actual ability of Jormag himself, so I still think that in the case of the Mursaat and the previous rising that the dragons might not have had the ability or particularly cared to enter the mists. Oddly enough since the mists are magical, and they eat magic.
EDIT: Whoops. Completely slipped my mind how they got the havroun to let them in. Given the the Sons used a “magical spike made of corrupted Mist”, that naturally means the Mists can be corrupted, at least by Jormag’s power. It’s worth noting that they couldn’t get in without the havroun of a true Spirit, but that could just be because by all indications the invasion was an independent initiative by the Sons rather than something Jormag was truly throwing his weight behind. Konig’s other examples don’t seem to need to exploit that norn-Spirit connection.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
(edited by Aaron Ansari.1604)
Although this seems to be an indirect benefit of having Norn as minions more than an actual ability of Jormag himself, so I still think that in the case of the Mursaat and the previous rising that the dragons might not have had the ability or particularly cared to enter the mists. Oddly enough since the mists are magical, and they eat magic.
The Mists are made of protomatter. That might be a clear enough indication for the Elder Dragons to not care so much.
It could also be that until the Forgotten and Six Gods arrived, they might not have known about the Mists.
Well he did have the corpse, so maybe Zhaitan can pull spirit from the mists as long as he has something to physically link to the spirit? Or maybe not.
I’m sure it’s because he had the corpse. Main point was that Zhaitan took a spirit from the Underworld by force.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
I’m inclined to agree with the point on the dragons having no knowledge of the Mists before gaining servants that had such knowledge. Another point: the Orrian Mirror. Since an Eye of Zhaitan was able to manipulate it, then the dragons have to be able to manipulate other magics such as the Foefire. However, if the dragons must truly rely on their servants to manipulate magical artifacts and spells, then there is no way for them to touch the Ascalonians because there is nobody alive who can dispell the Foefire let alone control the ghosts it created.
Durmand Priory Living Story line, perhaps? This is definitely something they’d want to know.
The Orrian Mirror was regular Orrian magic – which Zhaitan had corrupted in large quantities.
The Foefire was anything but normal magic – Orrian or no.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
I find that dragons oblivious to the mists explanation hard to believe. Since they’ve awoken at least once before, and are implied to have awoken many times in the past, it seems highly unlikely they wouldn’t have learned of the mists from someone they corrupted.
I find that dragons oblivious to the mists explanation hard to believe. Since they’ve awoken at least once before, and are implied to have awoken many times in the past, it seems highly unlikely they wouldn’t have learned of the mists from someone they corrupted.
Well the EDs do appear to be native to the material plane (Tyria) so it does seem possible that they could go their entire lives without having or needing to have anything to do with the mists.