Guild Wars 2

Sorry if this is the wrong section, but I just got the game last night.

Dwarves are by far my favorite fantasy race in any game. I was disappointed when I saw you couldn’t pick them in Guild Wars 2, although it’s an awesome game nonetheless. Apparently they exist in the lore, and they turned themselves to stone to defend the earth from some creatures or something. Since the earth isn’t being threatened by them, it seems the dwarves are doing their job. Maybe they could be done fighting, and rejoin above ground. Or the next expansion could have some questlines that take place helping the dwarves with whatever they are doing. It would be great if you could add dwarves in the first expansion.

The only gripe I have with GW 2 is the races. There are 3 humanoid races that are basically the same, only they are a little bit different in size. We see humans all the time, and it gets a little boring, no offense haha.

Humans all the time? Maybe I’ve seen the least humans compared to any other races in high and mid lvl areas. Even in ex-human areas.

Dwarves are fighting Primordus and the destroyers, a dragon and his minions underground. If they wren’t there, we would see much more destroyers on the surface, I don’t think you knowanything about the lore and reasons.

Besides, Arenanet wroteoff the dwarves because they don’t want them as a playable race. And they sharetoo much in common with the norns.

The dwarves were written out as a playable race back in Eye of the North. ArenaNet explicitly stated that they did this because they wanted to follow the atypical fantasy genre as little as possible. This is also why they redesigned the sylvari midway through development – because the old look was too elf-like.

They may come back in larger numbers as NPCs, if/when we ever go to the Depths of Tyria, but their numbers are dwindling, they cannot reproduce, and Anet doesn’t want them to be playable. They certainly aren’t done fighting – and won’t be until Primordus is dead.

Andrew.6793:

The only gripe I have with GW 2 is the races. There are 3 humanoid races that are basically the same, only they are a little bit different in size. We see humans all the time, and it gets a little boring, no offense haha.

So you want a fourth humanoid race that’s basically the same, only they are a little bit shorter? Yet you’re tired of this?

Makes sense.

Though that’s only the case if you look skin deep. Norn, sylvari, and human are all greatly different from each other.

Seems like no one said a word of welcome to you. Welcome to the game! As others said, it is unlikely that dwarves will return to GW2 as a playable race, as they were especially written out of it, except for one NPC named Ogden whom you can meet in GW2, he is well known to GW1 players but even he is stone now. The favourite of the game designers seem to be the Charr, contrary to the majority of players, and galling to a part of the player base who do not like the Charr.

Dwarves will never be playable, from a design point of view, because, as Konig has mentioned, Anet does not want to follow typical fantasy tropes and from a lore point of view, because their days of glory are long over. They all turned into stone, making them immortal but also taking away their ability to reproduce. They can only get less, not more and makng a new character who is supposed to be unexperienced in the beginning of the game, wouldn’t make sense for them, as they are all over 250 years old, some far older than that.

If you like dwarves you might enjoy getting into Norn and Charr. Norn because they share that nordic theme, the ale drinking and the stubbornness and Charr because of their tinkering and their mistrust for weak elf-like races (humans in this case).

haha i rember playing gw 1 and killing the stone summit so many dwarfs dead there thac why they are not into gw 2 iv killed them

There are nicer ways to say the things some people have said in this thread. Let’s make the guy feel welcome..

Quoted from my thread ages ago because people like forgetting it:

What was said before on the subject of the dwarves, that they were too stereotypical fantasy and unoriginal, is, I feel, false. The very fact that the dwarves would be resurgent would be bucking the stereotype, and the fact that they would be made of stone, essentially sentient golems, also does this. They can also fit the ‘One internal enemy, one external enemy’ theme that all the current races have (Like Flame Legion and Ghosts for Charr), in the Stone Summit and Destroyers (Like Nightmare Court and Risen for sylvari).

The parralels between the Great Dwarf and the Pale Tree are, whilst not obvious, there. The Pale Tree’s seed was created by the world itself. Surely a resurgent dwarf race would help reinforce the feeling that the world itself is fighting back against the dragons – tree and rock, twig and pebble. They have been a part of the dragon’s defeat before, and could be viewed as a tremendous asset that improves the chances the world has against the dragons significantly. And their return would give the human race a much needed boost – Other races say the humans are dying, and the return of the dwarves would help prove that the ‘elder races’ are not dead yet, nor have any intention of dying.

The character’s personal story would be finding his purpose in fighting with other races of the world against the Elder Dragons. Overcoming the isolationism of the remaining dwarves that have been fighting for 200 years and eventually changing their opinions.

The dwarves may not have a future beyond the Elder Dragon threat, but seeing as they are so intimately tied story-wise to the Dragons, it’s not that out of place (They fought all of them, not just Primordus, in history). And isn’t the Elder Dragon threat the whole point of GW2 and its potential expansions? So the dwarves do still fit in and they can still eventually fade away once the dragons are done. It would be the perfect bitter sweet ending for them. Go out in a final blaze of glory fighting all the Elder Dragons alongside the other races of the world, as they did in ages past, though naturally the option for them to simply live on in peace is also there.

ArenaNet has back tracked significantly on dwarves. They’ve gone from “Extinct” to “Rumours they are about.” to Ogden in Arah Explorable outright stating “They are fighting Primordus.” so the way is open.

I might also point out to those saying “dwarves small norn hurrdurr” that one of the MAIN INTERACTION POINTS BETWEEN OGDEN AND JORA IN EYE OF THE NORTH WAS HOW DIFFERENT DWARVES AND NORN WERE. There are superficial similarities at best. Humans in GW2 love ale as well. Are they short Norn? Dwarves also existed perfectly fine with Norn and Charr in the universe in Guild Wars 1. So I am not entirely sure where this suggestion that Norn and Charr replaced Dwarves is coming from. It’s nonsensical and has no basis in actual sense and logic.

People say they would not be any different personality wise to what we know, but they conveniently forget this quote: “Changed in body and mind.” The emphasis being on MIND. There is a SOLID lore reason for them to be different to the stereotypical dwarves we are used to.

Now you see the folly in trying to draw similarities.

Also, as I have said AGAIN AND AGAIN. If ArenaNet WANTED to get rid of dwarves completely they COULD have by saying “They’ve all died fighting Primordus.” but they HAVEN’T said this. They have infact had Ogden say that the dwarves are STILL FIGHTING.

Nor have I ever seen anyone provide an exact quote from ArenaNet that said “Dwarves will never be playable ever.” I’ve seen it said a lot, but I have seen no link directing me to the quote. So I am forced to follow what I see in this RECENT game, GW2 – And what I see is ArenaNet consistently hinting at dwarves – Come on, people, use your eyes. One of their premier artworks has a dwarf fighting alongside humans. If they wanted them ‘written off’ they wouldn’t have done that. Genius logic.

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8131/gw2dwarf.png for reference.

Excuse the capitals, but it seems people on this forum do not read.

Full thread here, where I have consistently countered arguements with sourced lore, I may point out that none of the counter points presented to my theories have any sources or references besides something ArenaNet have not said outright.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Dwarves-The-possibilities/first

And people would be outright lying if they said they didn’t want to hear a remaster of this piece of music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnflSWxyEWI

I don’t think anyone here ever stated that dwarves are short norn. Rather, there were simply a couple folks stating that dwarves and norn hold similarities in culture (this mostly being due to holding similar origins in norse mythology and culture).

As for why Anet didn’t go “they all dead” – ArenaNet (or at least some of the story writers) hates closing doors permanently (this being a reason why they went through the trouble of re-opening doors for mursaat stories, but didn’t do anything with them in GW2 aside from history – Jeff Grubb has stated that he regrets having killed Abaddon, because it closed story potentials, but saw it as necessary in the story, for example), but this is talking about story ideas. They probably thought “we may come up with an interesting plot for dwarves in the future” and so kept them alive, but changed and barely influential, in lore.

The reason why no one’s ever direct linked the quote is because it’s from a youtube video from 2009 that got taken down, iirc.

Edit: Decided to check my old doc of interviews I kept when they were common and not found. Found this among them:

[B]Onlinewelten:[/B] Many fans have longed for dwarves. Why didn’t they make it as a playable race?

[B]Eric Flannum:[/B] One of the things that we try to do with our story and lore is to build a sort of roadmap for where the world and all the races that inhabit it have been and where they are going in the future. The dwarves have played an important part in past events (more than players are even aware of at this time) and will have a role in the future as well. Because of the destiny we chose for the dwarven race, they didn’t make a particularly compelling playable race for Guild Wars 2. But who knows what the future holds for them?

http://www.onlinewelten.com/games/articles/interviews/4633-guild-wars-2-arenanet-im-interview-teil-1/4/

I’m pretty sure there was another one, similar to this but more about their use in other fantasy genre media, but as said – Anet didn’t want to make them a playable race and while things may change – hence why they didn’t outright say “they be dead” – as things are now they won’t.

I don’t think anyone here ever stated that dwarves are short norn. Rather, there were simply a couple folks stating that dwarves and norn hold similarities in culture (this mostly being due to holding similar origins in norse mythology and culture).

Which is, as I stated, false, just because their -inspirations- are similar doesn’t make their actual -in lore- culture similar. As I stated one of the ‘major’ character interactions in Eye of the North was between a dwarf and a norn and was highlighting the differences between them.

What I am trying to do by pointing this out is to get people to stop going “They’re exactly the same/similar because inspirations.”, as a reason for them not being playable.

as things are now they won’t.

See. It’s statements like this that drive me up the wall. You can’t know that and you can’t say it like it is fact, as you actually admitted just before what you typed here. It has the potential to confuse people. Not to mention how incredibly pointless such a statement is – Of course at the present time they won’t be made playable because ArenaNet hasn’t even announced plans for an expansion yet, let alone content in that expansion.

And to be honest what happened to the dwarves -does- make them a compelling race to a fair few, that can’t exactly be denied.

In a way it’s hilarious – It made them different from the stereotypical fantasy norm, which was apparently one of the reasons for ‘writing them off’. So they write the dwarves off, in the process making them unique and un-stereotypical, and the reason they were writing them off in the first place is because they were stereotypical. Thereby invalidating the reasoning for writing them off in the first place. Confusing logic x_x

Sure! They can have them appear in game as NPCs and be awesome. But then ANet runs into the problem Blizzard is having with High Elves at the moment after 5.1 and 5.2. Giving a non-playable race awesome moments and screen time just makes people want to play them. Case in point: Kodan. And Kodan are much, much more similar to Norn than Dwarves are to Norn.

(Though to be fair Blizzard is burying their heads in the sand to that particular issue. I can only hope ArenaNet doesn’t do the same thing)

Kodan similarity to norn? They are much further apart than norn are from dwarves. Norn care nothing about “keeping the world in balance” or any of that crap, they just wanna hunt and gain glory. If you are saying they are similar because norn can “go bear” and the kodan are bears, you are using the same argument as those who say the dwarves are similar to the norn because of their inspirations.

Yes, ThatOddOne, there are some differences between norn and dwarf. Though the main – only, actually – highlighted difference in EotN was that norn “fight alone” while dwarves (usually, except for their greatest of heroes) do not. That is literally what Ogden had so much trouble figuring out about norn – why they prefer fighting alone (and if not alone, in very small groups).

However, despite that highlighted difference, they are still – in both inspiration and in-lore culture – more similar to each other than to other races. Are they very similar? No. And no one said such a thing. But do they hold similarities? Yes, and that’s what was said. Of the playable races, norn (and seconded by charr) hold the most similarities.

And Kodan are much much *dis*similar to the norn than dwarves – and are, in fact, closer but still far from the dwarves than to the norn (while they reigned, the dwarven kingdom was peaceful and had a bit of a golden age according to the Priory – that is, until the Stone Summit came about – and as narcemus partially said, the only real similarity between kodan and norn are their bear form and them both being driven from their homes by Jormag).

In Flame and Frost, Braham eventually gets mad in front of Knut Whitebear about that “every hunter is at his own” among the norn.

Gandarel.5091:

In Flame and Frost, Braham eventually gets mad in front of Knut Whitebear about that “every hunter is at his own” among the norn.

And some people wondered why I thought Braham is “un-nornish”.

Another problem with bringing back the Dwarves would be that they were one of the 5 original elder-races. While it would be interesting to be able to play one of the elder races, it’d be a bit hard to justify. They “needed” to fade away into the mists of time somehow to make room for new players in history, like humans. It would be a little strange to have an enigmatic, powerful, mythical race playable.
I was really surprised to discover they were one of the 5 original races that fought the dragons, considering how many internal problems and commonplace issues they had in Guild Wars 1. I remember thinking “This… is one of the original, mythical races of Tyria? That’s… rather underwhelming. Your legends severely overestimate you.”

Well, do keep in mind that the dwarves’ problems in GW1 were only part of that very generation. The Stone Summit and the civil war was very new (in dwarven history). And of all the elder races, it seems like the dwarves were the youngest and weakest (with forgotten as a possible candidate for “youngest on Tyria (world)”). In dwarven history, the Shiverpeaks was in peace for hundreds of years between the fall of the jotun and the rise of the Stone Summit.

Thanks for the feedback and welcome everyone. I’ve been playing a Charr Guardian and it’s a pretty cool race. I like it mainly because it’s so different from the other races (mainly humans, Sylvari, and Norn). I like Asura too, also because they feel different. The 3 humanoid races are just too boring for me. They all run the same, and feel the same. If ANet truly wanted to step away from the stereotypical fantasy world, they wouldn’t have included humans, possibly Norn either. Norn and Humans are a couple of the most common racial archetypes found in any MMO. The Sylvari are an excuse to add Elves. They are elves basically, although a bit more embellished.

The game is really awesome though. It’s just not that 100% feeling when you can’t stop playing a game. I feel Anet needs to add more variety in races to appeal to more players (less 6 foot tall humanoid races please). I’d like one of them to be Dwarves, but that’s just me.

Andrew.6793:

Thanks for the feedback and welcome everyone. I’ve been playing a Charr Guardian and it’s a pretty cool race. I like it mainly because it’s so different from the other races (mainly humans, Sylvari, and Norn). I like Asura too, also because they feel different. The 3 humanoid races are just too boring for me. They all run the same, and feel the same. If ANet truly wanted to step away from the stereotypical fantasy world, they wouldn’t have included humans, possibly Norn either. Norn and Humans are a couple of the most common racial archetypes found in any MMO. The Sylvari are an excuse to add Elves. They are elves basically, although a bit more embellished.

The game is really awesome though. It’s just not that 100% feeling when you can’t stop playing a game. I feel Anet needs to add more variety in races to appeal to more players (less 6 foot tall humanoid races please). I’d like one of them to be Dwarves, but that’s just me.

…To me it sounds like you haven’t really looked at the races beyond the surface. The sylvari, for one, are very, very far away from elves who live for hundreds of years and so on. And what is this overly used racial archetype that you connect to the norn? Because to me, such is not familiar. Sure, they are big humans on surface, however their mindset and culture are very different.

And humans… Do I really need to explain the presence of humans in GW2?

I’d just like to “ditto” what Tuomir said. Humans were pre-established in GW1 and it’s pretty hard to have a liked game without a race for players to relate to (humanity). Sylvari are nothing like elves in, truth be told, any way except the very not-so-skin-deep way of both being humanoid and holding ties to nature. But where elves take care of/live within nature in most fantasy tropes nowadays, sylvari ARE nature. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

Norn don’t really fill a common fantasy stereotype. WoW does have a similar race, but only so far as their inspirations (norse) as far as I know (I’ve never played WoW so dunno all that much), but that’s still just to one other game. Dwarves, sure you can argue such, but in GW the dwarves are fairly different than other fantasy depictions ever since Eye of the North.

Yea, but I understand what Toumir is saying about the Norn. I have never seen playable Tengu in an MMORPG. I have never seen Charr. I have never seen Asura. I have seen humans and large humans and humanoid-type races with strong Nordic ties. Sylvari are very unique, though. They are frelling plants. Not plant-like humanoids, not elves that live among plants, but actual plants, which kinda blew my mind when I finally grasped that concept.
Someday, I am hoping Jotun or something become playable. Guild Wars really needs a monstrous humanoid race that isn’t based on an animal. Jotun remind me of Ogres… I like Ogres.

Ogres and Jotun are hinted to be related species in the game. :P

Though I wouldn’t expect either to become playable – one of them, the ogres, are a minor race and playable races are all major. The other of them, the jotun, are a fallen elder race and won’t be playable for the same reasons dwarves, seers, mursaat, and forgotten won’t be (minus the fact that at least three of the other four are near extinct).

I would personally think that jotun are nowhere near the level required to make them a playable race. Being a playable race seems to mean that you have some sort of social order (Government, military, heck a racial city) and what we see and know about the jotun say they have none of these. On top of that they have a similar issue with the forgotten and the dwarves being playable, they are of the dead/dying 5 Elder Races. Their time has come and gone, and newer races have appeared. I can’t personally see jotun, dwarves, seer, mursaat, or forgotten being anything more than NPC characters that provide critical information, interesting fights, or possibly even incredible battles. Seeing them as playable, just seems to me as a no-go, but that is just me.

LOL I wasn’t actually saying that specifically the Jotun should become playable, I was naming a random race off the top of my head that is monstrous and not animal-based. But cool to know that ogres actually exist in GW2.
If I got my choice though, I’d make Hyleks playable. I’d never play anything else ever again.

Narcemus.1348:

Being a playable race seems to mean that you have some sort of social order (Government, military, heck a racial city) and what we see and know about the jotun say they have none of these.

I doubt the Jotun will be playable but I don’t think these are requirements for a playable race. The Norn are so independant that they have none of these.

They may not have a government or a specific military, but they definitely have a racial city, a heirarchy of command (at least for a Hoelbrak), and a police force (wolfborn). The norn are years ahead of anything the jotun have when it comes to being a playable race.

Hoelbrak is Knutts big yurt. The Wolfborn act as police but that is nothing the Jotun wouldn’t have if a-net got more specific about which particular jotun runs which particular village using which particular inner circle of his own thugs.

the only real difference between the Jotun and the Norn is that the Norn are playable so the NPC’s are named while the Jotun are far less so. But each jotun settlement is still going to have it’s own chief/leader and inner politics.

Dustfinger.9510:

Hoelbrak is Knutts big yurt. The Wolfborn act as police but that is nothing the Jotun wouldn’t have if a-net got more specific about which particular jotun runs which particular village using which particular inner circle of his own thugs.

the only real difference between the Jotun and the Norn is that the Norn are playable so the NPC’s are named while the Jotun are far less so. But each jotun settlement is still going to have it’s own chief/leader and inner politics.

Q_Q Dust sometimes you make me cry.

Jotuns are a fallen elder race, who lost all of its own history and knowledge, most of them aren’t smarter now than the animals.

And that is the difference between the two. Like.. everything.

Uh, we do have more specific ins and outs of jotun culture. It’s mostly in the blog post on them from way yonder back. They live in small tribes which are rivals to each other, and led by the strongest individual who rules through his strength with an iron fist – if he’s beaten, the victor becomes the tribal leader. It’s fairly similar to the ogre leadership, except that for ogres it’s “strongest pet” and not “strongest self.”

Not to mention that the jotun hide away their women and children from site to protect them, which is a MASSIVE downfall for becoming playable, and differneciates them from every single playable race and even minor races sans the kodan (who hide their children away, but not their women).

Gandarel.5091:

Q_Q Dust sometimes you make me cry.

Jotuns are a fallen elder race, who lost all of its own history and knowledge, most of them aren’t smarter now than the animals.

And that is the difference between the two. Like.. everything.

You gotta take my posts in context if you want them to make sense. ;P But you just listed another similarity by saying the Jotun lost a lot of history and knowledge.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Uh, we do have more specific ins and outs of jotun culture. It’s mostly in the blog post on them from way yonder back. They live in small tribes which are rivals to each other, and led by the strongest individual who rules through his strength with an iron fist – if he’s beaten, the victor becomes the tribal leader. It’s fairly similar to the ogre leadership, except that for ogres it’s “strongest pet” and not “strongest self.”

Not to mention that the jotun hide away their women and children from site to protect them, which is a MASSIVE downfall for becoming playable, and differneciates them from every single playable race and even minor races sans the kodan (who hide their children away, but not their women).

Just once couldn’t you agree with someone..? We both know that the last chance for the Jotun to be playable was some thousand years ago.

We know some, very very few and very very basic informations about the Jotun, but not even they do. Their last lore-keper is in Hoelbrak. They live in tribes, got no capital and no common ruler for ages.

I would say the jotun are similar to the norn, yes, but the norn are much further along than the jotun in the means of society. Hoelbrak is much larger of a society than anything the Jotun will have unless they make some major changes to the race. So pointing at Hoelbrak and Knut and saying it’s no different from a little jotun tribe is like looking at all of Kryta and Queen Jennah and saying it’s no different from the jotun. It is vastly different. Not to mention the jotun have nothing in the means of architecture, technology, or magical know-how. They would have nothing but manpower (and very little of that) to add to the Pact in order to help in the fight against the dragons.

Ramiah.5648:

But cool to know that ogres actually exist in GW2.
.

You’ll enjoy Blazeridge Steppes and Fields of Ruin then.

I’m speaking specifically to Government, military and a racial city. The Norn do not have a central government or nation. They don’t have a military. The closest thing they have is a “chief” of a large settlement deputizing a certain group to keep the peace within that settlement. That’s something a Jotun settlement would also have. A chief and his thugs. The racial city is only a racial city for player purposes. In lore, it is Knuts yurt and he allows other Norn there because he’s cool like that. But if Jotun ever did become playable (Which I doubt), they could establish Thruln , last descendant of the last Giant-King of the Jotun, and his newly conquered village as the Jotun racial city the same way they did for Norn.

Gandarel.5091:

Just once couldn’t you agree with someone..? We both know that the last chance for the Jotun to be playable was some thousand years ago.

Doesn’t that mean I’m agreeing with you? Of course, you’re going to take that rhetorical question as “see, you don’t even agree with me on that you should agree with people!” I bet.

Gandarel.5091:

They live in tribes, got no capital and no common ruler for ages.

Which is what we said. Though we have a bit more than just that.

They’re territorial. They’re protective of their women and children. They act like bandits. They have leadership determined by strength. All of this gleaned from The Savage Pride of the Jotun

@Dustfinger

It would require a major overhaul of the race to even get to the level of the norn. I understand you do not wish to see the norn as more civilized than the jotun, but dude all you have to do is look at them. The norn can make armor, jotun wear rags. Norn make massive lodges, jotun make huts. These races are night and day. The jotun will not be anything close to playable in GW2 (IMO).

Narcemus.1348:

@Dustfinger

It would require a major overhaul of the race to even get to the level of the norn. I understand you do not wish to see the norn as more civilized than the jotun, but dude all you have to do is look at them. The norn can make armor, jotun wear rags. Norn make massive lodges, jotun make huts. These races are night and day. The jotun will not be anything close to playable in GW2 (IMO).

I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. I don’t think they will be playable. I don’t think the jotun are more civilized than the Norn. This is why I didn’t address anything but governemt, military and racial city. What I do think is that a playable race doesn’t need a Government, military or a racial city because the Norn prove that it isn’t a requirement for a playable race.

That said, I like where the Jotun are at now. They are a non-playable race but as a non playable race, they’ve been given depth to flesh them out and make tyria more interesting. the link Konig provided shows that A-net wanted to take them from “nasty costomers with big clubs” to more than that. they have done that by giving them a long tragic history and I appreciate that they have. I’d like to see more of this for most if not all of Tyrias non-playable races.

While norn may not have a “government” or “racial city” they do have something that is outright needed by all playable races: unity. And yes, that may seem paradoxical or contradictory to them being individualist, but what I mean by unity is that they hold shared causes and are friends with each other – something the jotun are very much not – and consider themselves a single “group” (unlike, for example, grawl).

I agree with that. The Wolf Spirit is a great help in making the Norn a playable race. Like I said, I was only speaking to government, military and racial city

Andrew.6793:

The 3 humanoid races are just too boring for me. They all run the same, and feel the same. If ANet truly wanted to step away from the stereotypical fantasy world, they wouldn’t have included humans, possibly Norn either. Norn and Humans are a couple of the most common racial archetypes found in any MMO. The Sylvari are an excuse to add Elves. They are elves basically, although a bit more embellished.

As a Sylvari player and fan, I recommend reading more about the Sylvari and playing one. You’ll find that they’re about as traditionally elven as Mr. Spock.

I think it will be good to take the time to see the difference between Dwarf and Norn ( sorry for crappy english ) :

Amor : Norn have light armor ( only the T3 heavy model is really a heavy armor, the others are barenaked.) The dwarves, in sterotype, have plate armor ( stone summit) or chainmail amor ( Dwarf of Deldrimor)

Religion : Norn have a religion inspired by the native american of the North( spirit of the wild) , while the dwarf have something more like the viking mythology ( in gw1, there was only the Great Dwarf)

Fight and governement : Norn fight alone , Dwarf in army. The Dwarves have a king , the Norn follow only themself.

Norn fight for glory first, Dwarves for fun( in other universe) ou the futur of the race/king ( gw1). Some fight for fun thought.

Habitation : Norn live in the wild, in isolate farm or can be see in bigger group, but not all the time ( Hoelbrak). Dwarves live under a moutain ( other universe and stone summit) or live in big town on the moutain ( Deldrimor Dwarves.)

technology : Norn have no really technology ( maybe the balista). They are good weaponsmith thought ( dialogue in Hoebrak and one of the weaponsmith in the pact is a Norn. The vigil blacksmith is her daugther.) Dwarves was the first race to use black powder.

Beer : Both love them !

Bigtony.5089:

I think it will be good to take the time to see the difference between Dwarf and Norn ( sorry for crappy english ) :

Amor : Norn have light armor ( only the T3 heavy model is really a heavy armor, the others are barenaked.) The dwarves, in sterotype, have plate armor ( stone summit) or chainmail amor ( Dwarf of Deldrimor)

Religion : Norn have a religion inspired by the native american of the North( spirit of the wild) , while the dwarf have something more like the viking mythology ( in gw1, there was only the Great Dwarf)

Fight and governement : Norn fight alone , Dwarf in army. The Dwarves have a king , the Norn follow only themself.

Norn fight for glory first, Dwarves for fun( in other universe) ou the futur of the race/king ( gw1). Some fight for fun thought.

Habitation : Norn live in the wild, in isolate farm or can be see in bigger group, but not all the time ( Hoelbrak). Dwarves live under a moutain ( other universe and stone summit) or live in big town on the moutain ( Deldrimor Dwarves.)

technology : Norn have no really technology ( maybe the balista). They are good weaponsmith thought ( dialogue in Hoebrak and one of the weaponsmith in the pact is a Norn. The vigil blacksmith is her daugther.) Dwarves was the first race to use black powder.

Beer : Both love them !

Just a few notes:

Armor: Dwarves in GW1 use light and medium armor too (well atleast something that looks like that, as they weren’t classified in that way in GW1)

Religion: Dwarves also worshipped the human gods and some revered Glint.

Fight and government: Norn also follow great leaders if they have proven themself worthy, they just prefer to do things alone or in small groups (mostly because everyone thinks he is the supposed leader). Some dwarves did fight for fun, like Kilroy, but they had a pretty human attitude about it for the most part.

Habitation: Actually most dwarven settlements we came across were above the ground. It wasn’t until Edge of Destiny that we found out that they had whole cities underground. (Atleast I can’t think any larger dwarven underground settlement, besides Sorrow’s Furnace, but that was more an operation and military base then a settlement.)

Yeah, it wasn’t until GW2 that we started seeing large amounts of underground dwarven ruins. For the most part they were above ground.

Yeah, I agree for the leader part of the Norn ( Wolf spirit is my favorite) . Just didn’t put in my summary :P

I didn’t read the GW book, so you say there is big city underground ?

ps : I know they were most of the time above ground in gw1, but the stone summit have the Sorrow’s Furnace and the sterotypical dwarves, like WoW and Warhammer, live underground.

For the religion, do we know if it’s a large part of the Dwarves who worship the humans god ? I remember a guy who worshiped Dwayna , but not the others.

Every Wintersday there were groups of Dwarves who were followers of Dwayna and Grenth that would show up, similar to with the humans.

And yes there is a city underground, and if you go through Lornar’s Pass and many of the Steamspur Mountain areas you will find many underground dwarven locations.

but they are not ’’that’’ big. I hope we will see an extention with a very large part underground. Not just a big cave, i want some gallery in there ! ( Yes, I look at you, blizzard ! The Earth Realm was just a normal zone with no sky ! )

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Just a few notes:

-snip-

Religion: Dwarves also worshipped the human gods and some revered Glint.

Some dwarves also worshiped/revered Dwayna or Grenth – there’s no mention of Melandru, Dwayna, or Lyssa by the dwarves. Ever. Similarly, the Brotherhood of the Dragon don’t follow Glint in a religious sense, but a philosophical one. They’re still sole followers of the Great Dwarf.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Habitation: Actually most dwarven settlements we came across were above the ground. It wasn’t until Edge of Destiny that we found out that they had whole cities underground. (Atleast I can’t think any larger dwarven underground settlement, besides Sorrow’s Furnace, but that was more an operation and military base then a settlement.)

Sorrow’s Furnace belonged to the Deldrimor dwarves before the Stone Summit turned it into that operation and military base. We don’t really know what it was beforehand. Though we do know that it and its surroundings (Grenth’s Footprint) was considered sacred land.

Bigtony.5089:

I didn’t read the GW book, so you say there is big city underground ?

ps : I know they were most of the time above ground in gw1, but the stone summit have the Sorrow’s Furnace and the sterotypical dwarves, like WoW and Warhammer, live underground.

For the religion, do we know if it’s a large part of the Dwarves who worship the humans god ? I remember a guy who worshiped Dwayna , but not the others.

More of an underground village.

GW dwarves are far from stereotypical dwarves.

It’s not large, to our knowledge, but there did seem to be a dwarven church of Dwayna and another of Grenth. But again – only of those two gods. And most such dwarves came out during Wintersday alone. We saw probably around 5-10 each, with mention of Grenth by Jalis Ironhammer as well.

I know they are far from the stereotypical dwarves, but some people here seem to fear and say they are the same.

It’s interesting to see that the Dwarves believe in some human God.