Guild Wars 2

So while reading the novel Sea of Sorrows, in the second and third chapters (at least, haven’t currently made it further), Kaineng City is mentioned many times as where the ship Cobiah is on trades at. Multiple times even, and it makes mention of him exploring the maze-like streets of Kaineng City.

Here’s the thing though:

Emperor Usoku is credited with spending millions to increase Canthan military, uniting the Luxon and Kurzicks, expelling non-humans, and finally closing off Cantha’s borders. The last would at least heavily imply no foreign ships being allowed to dock. The date credited to this is 1127 AE – whether that’s when Usoku took reign, started the campaign, or ended it isn’t really clear (doubt he did all that in a single year!), but nonetheless the novel of the mentioned events i 1219 AE – a good 90-some years after the date given.

And given the number of times this is mentioned, this doesn’t seem to be an oversight. So does this mean that Cantha’s borders opened up sometime after 1127 AE and Zhaitan’s rise?

Thoughts?

I dunno… there are a couple points in the book- not many, but a couple- that seem to contradict the more obscure corners of Guild Wars history… and in the context of Lion’s Arch shortly after Orr’s rise, the status of Cantha’s trade with the outside world might qualify. I think I’d chalk this up as oversight. After all, it’s not really part of the plot, just thrown in to give Cobiah’s ship a reason to be sailing.

Except that Ree wrote it, she’s not an imbecile and she should technically be the most knowledgeable person on GW lore shouldn’t she?
Is it possible that Cantha was still open to trade with Kryta since it was strictly humans coming through? I imagine that as long as none of the other races were coming close to Canthan ports they wouldn’t mind. Trade can occasionally be pretty necessary and I would think the Emperor would have the sense to acknowledge this even if he was a little crazy – exports = profits!

Like I said, there were a couple odd aberrations in the text. The few bits we get about Cantha in Guild Wars 2 make it clear that no one has been there since Usoku’s reign. Unless he ruled for over 90 years (and Kisu ruled for a very long time, so he probably wasn’t a young man when he took the throne), the book is mistaken. Since the trip to Cantha is such an utterly negligible part of the story, and since the important elements would have required so much research of their own, I’m guessing that Ree tossed in a random port to pick up luxury goods without distracting from the work on the book to consider the full ramifications thereof… though, as always, I would prefer I response from the devs themselves over my speculation about them.

Though it would be very minimal, I can see the Emperor allowing legal trade for himself and some high ranking nobles. The things that we all know the rich and powerful can’t go without: spices, foreign fabrics, jewelry, magical items (in a fantasy setting), and books. I don’t see the Emperor allowing foreigners into the city though, much less being allowed to explore it. They would most likely be forced to stay in the harbor, and only the harbor.

Since Cantha closed it borders, I’m sure huge smuggling rings have popped up and grew like weeds. If Cobiah was smuggling in some goods to some criminal syndicate, in one of the darker and seedier parts of Kaineng, I can see them allowing him to explore a tiny bit, as long as he left in a timely period. They may tolerate him a bit more, but he is still a foreigner. Him getting noticed would draw the guards/MoP/Emperor’s attention onto them.

Pardon me if this is idiotic but nowhere does it actually say “Nobody was every allowed into Cantha”. The only thing that comes close is that the borders to Cantha were closed. Borders which one would have to assume are metaphorical considering the absence of any physical borders. If you take into consideration that the borders being closed was mentioned along side the exile of all non-humans it could quite simply mean that non-humans were denied entry. Them being isolationist and xenophobic doesn’t necessarily mean they didn’t allow trade with Kryta and Elona, it just means they wouldn’t allow any sort of external influence from other nations to be exerted on Cantha. All that considered is it not then entirely probable/possible that trade was continued between Kryta, Cantha and Elona up until the rise of Zhaitain. That would also justify the comment of Cantha being completely closed off after his rise, because if they had already closed themselves off that comment would be completely redundant. (And don’t go shouting ‘Order of Whispers!!!’ because their access to places would hardly be common knowledge and it’s possible that if they can still access Elona they can still access Cantha.). And take a breath.

A ship is kinda hard to conceal when pulling up to a dock though. Unless you anchored far off-shore or around bluffs and then ferried your goods to shore in smaller boats. But that’s time-consuming and, if you’re a smuggler, you generally want to get your merchandise off-loaded as quickly as possible.

Discounting the possibility that Ree just goofed when it came to timeframes, I’m more inclined to go with Erukk’s first hypothesis, and that’s that even though Cantha’s borders are officially closed to foreigners, certain ships are given discretion to dock and offload their goods, but not to set foot on Canthan soil otherwise. It’s also possible that, if Cobiah reached Cantha 90 years after Usoku took the throne, Usoku might already be dead, or at least not in a proper mental state to govern properly, and his successor relaxed the rules a little.

Maybe they only blocked trade with other races, and humans, like Cobiah, were still welcome.

Or the isolationist period was needed only for a short time just to solidify the new inner structure of the society, maybe 30-50 years.

Seems reasonable to assume either a relaxing of control by the time Cobias was going to Cantha, or that trade was largely closed, with limited trade still occurring, thought (probably) strictly controlled.

Or both.

It’s also possible that Cobiah’s exploration was just a case of a kid being a kid. The continent could have been completely closed to foreigners, except for the docks for the purpose of loading/unloading goods, and, being a sneaky, thief skill having youth he simply slipped past the guards and explored what he could unbeknownst to anyone.

In the real world closed borders usually mean opportunity for rich pickings for smugglers/pirates. So smuggling/trading activities does make sense despite it went against the edit of emperors. However you never know for sure for a fantasy make believe world like Tyria/Cantha. It could be totally illogical or logical after all.

Aaron Ansari

After all, it’s not really part of the plot, just thrown in to give Cobiah’s ship a reason to be sailing.

If that was the point, then they would have gone with Elona since, despite being ruled by a lich, there was no isolation going on with Elona.

I’m still reading the novel (slowly due to this thing called “life”) and I have seen a couple mistakes (like calling the Unending Ocean/Clashing Seas the Sea of Sorrows, and calling the body of water over Orr an ocean and the center of the Sea of Sorrows), but I wouldn’t be so quick to claim this is one.

Aaron Ansari

The few bits we get about Cantha in Guild Wars 2 make it clear that no one has been there since Usoku’s reign. Unless he ruled for over 90 years (and Kisu ruled for a very long time, so he probably wasn’t a young man when he took the throne), the book is mistaken.

Not quite.

Usoku himself is never once mentioned in the game, except for the exotic and Ascended gear items; all we know from the game itself is that since Orr rose no one has heard of Cantha and that the tengu were the last to leave, passing by a risen Orr. Cobiah went to Cantha before Orr rose. No contradictions made to either the game nor the Movement of the World in this.

And given the amount of time Ree put into the book, I doubt that she’d “just toss a port in” when really, even Rata Sum’s port or Elona or the Battle Isles would have worked.

FlamingFoxx

Is it possible that Cantha was still open to trade with Kryta since it was strictly humans coming through? I imagine that as long as none of the other races were coming close to Canthan ports they wouldn’t mind. Trade can occasionally be pretty necessary and I would think the Emperor would have the sense to acknowledge this even if he was a little crazy – exports = profits!

Erukk.1408

Though it would be very minimal, I can see the Emperor allowing legal trade for himself and some high ranking nobles. The things that we all know the rich and powerful can’t go without: spices, foreign fabrics, jewelry, magical items (in a fantasy setting), and books. I don’t see the Emperor allowing foreigners into the city though, much less being allowed to explore it. They would most likely be forced to stay in the harbor, and only the harbor.

Given that Cobiah was on a King Beade-sanctumed ship for trade, either of these two cases could be so, I suppose.

Erukk

Since Cantha closed it borders, I’m sure huge smuggling rings have popped up and grew like weeds. If Cobiah was smuggling in some goods to some criminal syndicate, in one of the darker and seedier parts of Kaineng, I can see them allowing him to explore a tiny bit, as long as he left in a timely period.

It didn’t seem like he smuggling. It reads as a legit trading group, as he openly explored the city.

FlamingFoxx

Pardon me if this is idiotic but nowhere does it actually say “Nobody was every allowed into Cantha”. The only thing that comes close is that the borders to Cantha were closed.

I re-read the original source for this from The Movement of the World to refresh my memory about this:

In the year 1127 AE, Emperor Usoku, successor to Kisu, took a firm hold of his nation. He raised the Canthan military, spending millions in gold to arm his troops, and then swept the countryside. He defeated the Luxons and the Kurzick, incorporating these disparate people back into his nation. Usoku unified Cantha behind a strong national identity and began to drive out all non-humans. His regime was ironclad, tyrannical, and fierce. Those Canthans who did not agree with the emperor’s dictates were given no choice but to leave their homeland, seeking refuge and sanctuary in Elona and Tyria.

As a result, Cantha became extremely isolationist. Once Orr rose from the ocean, those tendencies were reinforced by an inability to safely sail the western seas. Any ships venturing near the Strait of Malchor are sunk by the black ships, then dredged from the ocean floor by the Orrian dragon and commandeered into service. Thus, completely cut off from Kryta, Cantha vanished entirely. Travelers, refugees, and even Xunlai agents residing within Tyrian heard nothing more from Cantha.

So that’s actually a good call on your part, it didn’t say no one was allowed to enter/leave. Just that Cantha became extremely isolationist, which can be taken a number of ways, and they were utterly cut off once Orr rose – which again fits with the book.

If we were to take “isolationist” to merely mean “only let foreigners in for trading purposes” then that would explain everything. But usually isolationist includes cutting off foreign trade, so either it doesn’t in this case or the isolationism didn’t last until Orr’s rise.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Not quite.

Usoku himself is never once mentioned in the game, except for the exotic and Ascended gear items; all we know from the game itself is that since Orr rose no one has heard of Cantha and that the tengu were the last to leave, passing by a risen Orr. Cobiah went to Cantha before Orr rose. No contradictions made to either the game nor the Movement of the World in this.

Not true. There’s a dialogue in Divinity’s Reach, in the plaza aside the Kormir High Road, that involves the Canthan population of DR trying to stay true to their roots. One of the lines is something like “We honor Emperor Usoku, and the emperors who came after, whose names we do not know.”

EDIT: “Emperor Usoku is the last emperor of Cantha whose name we know.” The same scholar also says “Around 200 years ago, trade simply stopped.”

Huh, guess that was added in since I last saw him… which admittedly was around release, perhaps even in the BWEs.