Guild Wars 2

It is well known that the Charr do not see the Six as beings worth being worshiped. Heck, if they had their way, they would kill the gods just to show that they weren’t all they were cracked up to be.

However, we also know from GW1 what it takes to actually kill a god.

There are two recorded instances of a god being replaced: Grenth replacing Dhuum, and Kormir replacing Abbadon. However, Dhuum still lives while Abaddon is dead. So what was different?

During the Nightfall campaign, the five gods tell Kormir that there is a choice ahead that only a mortal can make. Soon this becomes apparent that the choice is to take the mantle of divinity on herself.

Grenth, however, could not make this choice. Hidden away in the tomes in GW2 is an interesting tidbit: Grenth was the half-mortal son of Dwayna (and most likely Malchor). Since he was the son of a goddess, he was immortal. When he overthrew Dhuum, he could not make the same choice that Kormir did many years later, so Dhuum retained his power and still lives.

Now, we get to the point where the Charr come in with their goal. If they were to succeed, six of them would have to become gods themselves (possibly 7, as Dhuum would need to be brought down as well for a total wipe). How do you think this would affect Charr society and, overall, Tyria?

it wouldn’t change their belief about the gods, i don’t think. They still wouldn’t be worshipped, only looked at as immensly powerful beings. Unless it was a flame legion shaman. then it would be worshipped… by the flame legion.

It’s an interesting question, as the new gods would then be charr. They wouldn’t be worshipped per se, but they probably would be respected as the pinnacle fo charr achievement, and could probably have good shots at Imperatorship or other high ranks.

Wow, a charr Six is a fascinating prospect. Can we get some fan artists on this please?

I can see them becoming Immortal Imperators – maybe even a transition to a new six legions, in time. The attitude they held to them would be interesting though. Most charr already seem to have a great deal of respect for their imperators, and certainly they will obey them (that’s how a chain of command works). So if the power of a charr pantheon was accepted like that, would the charr honour them as powerful, wise leaders? Or would they resent the gap in power between their leaders and the rest of them?

Of course, it’s also possible they would consider it a corruption, claim that these new gods would inevitably try and rule/enslave the charr people, and promptly turn against them. But what then – if they kill them, the power still has to go somewhere again right?

No they could always let the magic run rampant through the world and cause loads of devastation, not like they aren’t used to that

Some people already believe that the Gods aren’t all humans. A couple of them (Dwayna and Lyssa iirc?) are often depicted with wings, and there are many many winged statues in Augory Rock and the Hall of Heroes. I have heard people mention that these gods may actually be Harpies or a similar race, and have once heard a theory that Balthazaar was a Norn.

But the lore about the six gods has always fascinated me due to the mysteries behind it. For starters, how did the original six become gods? Remember that these six became gods before humans arrived on Tyria. There’s a theory that states the six might have travelled through the Mists, Lord Odran style, and arrived on Tyria – however how they ascended from that point is a mystery. Could dragon artefacts be responsible? The Scepter of Orr, The Staff of the Mists, the Searing Cauldron, the Sanguinary Blade, the Krait Orb and even Caladbolg have been speculated to be related to the dragons and clearly grant great power to the wielders. Could the original six have used similar weapons to ascend to godhood?

Another mystery is actually counter-intuitive to something you said in the opening post. Abaddon may not actually be dead. After he was defeated in Nightfall, the player could travel to the Heart of Abaddon; a chamber in the Realm of Torment where Abaddon was said to be keeping his most secretive weapon. However, when the player arrives to this location, instead of a weapon we find a newly created being from the Mists called Razah. Razah has no memories before discovered by the player, and considering the names surrounding him and the lore leading up to his discovery, there is a large possibility that Abaddon may actually have reincarnated into Razah to avoid total destruction.

If you think about the gods as “Seats of Power” that just happened to be filled by humans, then there is every possibility that they could be replaced by the other races. But in my opinion, even if the Charr waged a war against the Six, and took over their seats, the rest of the Charr would still resist them. They have been fooled in the past by all powerful beings and don’t want to be enslaved by gods again.

Dwayna and Melandru, actually, and there’s an obscure pre-Nightfall piece that said Abaddon had wings too before he went bad. There’s also a Vabbian legend that harpies were servants of Dwayna before they fell from grace, and the thought strikes me that now we’ve visited Orr, it’s possible that the Risen Knights are the Zhaitan-animated bodies of non-fallen members of that race that had been living in Orr.

There’s also the fact that the facets of the Six appear as dragons, and we’ve been told that that’s because they’re connected to the Forgotten, not the Elder Dragons. It’s possible that the gods only appear human(ish) because that’s how they appear to humans, and can appear differently to other races.

Possibly more importantly, there’s a mention in one of the scrolls that Grenth was the first god that was born of Tyria. This implies that apart from Kormir, the others had already achieved their divine status – however they did so – before arriving on Tyria.

Well honestly it would make sense that Abaddon had wings if Lyssa had wings, especially since the two (three?) were so closely related. It is unknown if Lyssa always had a mastery over water, but Lyssa and Abaddon both had some control over illusion. I was very intrigued to see that they were so closely related, and I hope more light is shed on the subject eventually.

I do not believe that Razah and Abaddon are related at all though. If I remember right Razah had actually been created from the mists before Abaddon was destroyed, and that he had been captured by the demons and told he had a mission.

“I have been alone for what seems like ages. I am Razah, created from the Mists. I have no memories of my creation, though; the past is shrouded in fog. Abaddon bound me to this plane. His minions blessed me with knowledge to fulfill a great purpose. However, I can sense that Abaddon is no more. Now I am without purpose, my existence without meaning. So tell me… are you here to give me my purpose?”

So overall I’d say that it’s most likely that Razah is something completely unconnected. Not to mention, I remember hearing Jeff Grubb somewhere (sadly no link) saying that Abaddon was dead and over with (prolly like Zhaitan, even though people refuse to believe he’s really dead)

Well, Zhaitan I think is actually dead. You see something that looks like his body in the cutscene background for Arah explorables.

Likewise, we do have it confrimed from the devs that Abaddon is dead. It’s almost certain that the reason Abbadon is dead and Dhuum isn’t is because Grenth wasn’t mortal, so could not take away Dhuum’s divinity.

It’s also been suggested (by Konig, or am I remembering incorrectly?) that Dwayna’s winged form could be related to the largos – which would be fascinating. I’m expecting a larger part for the largos in the (distant) future, so perhaps they may shed some light on history involving the Six that we don’t have access to yet.

That theory was based on the statue of Dwayna in the Cathedral of Zephyrs appearing largos-like. I’m pretty sure that’s the result of corruption, though – Malchor’s workshop (now underground), for instance, has a second statue that, while unfinished, is finished enough to identify that it would be compatible with the conventional appearance of Dwayna if completed.