Guild Wars 2

Hi all,

I’ve been wondering for a while now, since I did some research but cant find any clues about the subject. We know that the Iron Legion is all about new tech without losing they core social ranks and soldier oriented traditions.

But what do we know about the other legions technological improvements?
In the Charr personal story (Iron I think) we are asked to give some kind of ghost killing device to one of the legions so they can improve it in some particular way. The Blood legion creates a massive cannon and Ash converts it into movable turrets.

With this I’m lead to believe that each legion is indeed progressing in this matter.
Can someone enlighten me on this with further knowledge?

Generally Iron legion makes all the technology for the three legions; generally. That doesn’t stop the other legions from doing anything of course.

The Charr are good at 3 things: Engineering, fighting and being opportunistic*. Each legion specializes in one of these traits, but they still have them all.

*by that I mean, they will strike at your weakpoints and fight dirty if necessary. Honorable fights are cool and all, but in the end the result matters the most.

Thank you Riku and BuddhaKeks, You make interesting points

What it basically boils down to is that each legion has a particular focus, but they do not exclusively concentrate on what they focus on. Iron Legion still has soldiers, for instance, and Blood Legion has spies (Rox has possibly been drafted in this capacity, from some hints in Season 2). The Iron Legion has most of the charr industry, but the other legions still have their own engineers working on more specialised pieces than the Iron Legion’s war machines.

Yeah, others pretty much answered that, only thing I might want to add is that the flamelegion is the exception there, since they don’t like technology, their hyrarchy is pretty much about magical potential, therefore they don’t have technology there, but they have their magic, and more mages then the other 3 legions combined, even though they don’t allow females to use magic.
You could therefore say that flame and iron are the biggest opposits in that regard.

I’d like to think that the Ash and Blood Legions have their share of tech themselves but the tech they produce is dedicated to what their respective legions stand for. Ash Engineers would probably be good at making top-notch traps or cloaking devices whereas Blood Engineers would probably make nastier Charrzookas or pilot siege engines.

Malkavian.4516:

… Blood Engineers would probably make nastier Charrzookas or pilot siege engines.

Thats what I thought at first too, but when I went to check the tank factory in the Black Citadel (somewhere near the Factorium district) I saw those massive tanks, generaly used by Blood Legion Soldiers being created.
Iron is probably creating those custom tanks by BLegion demand for the frontlines.
You can find those tanks in your home instance near BL settlement, and spread over ascalon lands also under BL control.

Might wanna check it

Edit: Black Citadel >Prep Wagon Deck is the correct location

That holds true in Black Citadel because it is the Iron Legion Citadel, I’m pretty sure that you’ll find Blood Legion engineer creating devastating weapons in the Blood Citadel in the Charr Homelands and Ash Legion creating nasty traps and devices in their Citadel.

Belzebu.3912:

That holds true in Black Citadel because it is the Iron Legion Citadel, I’m pretty sure that you’ll find Blood Legion engineer creating devastating weapons in the Blood Citadel in the Charr Homelands and Ash Legion creating nasty traps and devices in their Citadel.

hmm I imagine the blood legion citadell to be more of a giant bootcamp with some armorsmithingstations equipping the soldiers with weapons and gear, a little like isengard to be honest.
And ash… well we don’t even know where ash is so I won’t dare to speculate here ID the only other citadel beside the black we know is the citadell of flame, which was inside an active vulano so taht the shamans could draw their magic direct from it’s source,

The black citadel got created where it was mostly for 2 reasons,
1: as an reminder of the charr victory over humans(I mean, it literally stands on the top of ascalonian ruins) and because it was the iron legion that had most controll over the ebonhawk siege, so it made sense for them to have their headquarters nearby, close enough to send their new prototypes there, but not so close that the humans would pose a threat to the iron legion leaders.

Seishiro.7468:

even though they don’t allow females to use magic.

They don’t allow females to do anything but make babies.

Regh.8649:

Thats what I thought at first too, but when I went to check the tank factory in the Black Citadel (somewhere near the Factorium district) I saw those massive tanks, generaly used by Blood Legion Soldiers being created.
Iron is probably creating those custom tanks by BLegion demand for the frontlines.
You can find those tanks in your home instance near BL settlement, and spread over ascalon lands also under BL control.

Yeah, Iron makes the weapons, Blood uses the weapons.

Belzebu.3912:

That holds true in Black Citadel because it is the Iron Legion Citadel, I’m pretty sure that you’ll find Blood Legion engineer creating devastating weapons in the Blood Citadel in the Charr Homelands and Ash Legion creating nasty traps and devices in their Citadel.

In the same way that the Black Citadel has Ash and Blood Legions stationed there I’m sure that there are Iron Legion in both the Ash and Blood Legion territories.

CureForLiving.5360:

In the same way that the Black Citadel has Ash and Blood Legions stationed there I’m sure that there are Iron Legion in both the Ash and Blood Legion territories.

Of course they have, but there I imagine Iron Legion helping in the crafting of the Blood Legion weaponry.
I know that Iron Legion are the main engineers among the Charr, but I’m certain that you’ll find Blood and Ash legion Charr developing new tech.

Imagine a Blood Legion soldier after a battle and then having an epiphany and realizing that he could change something to make the killing more efficient, and then he goes to make it, there you’ll find a B Legion developing new tech.

Those massive tanks have hints of a wasted red tint all over the carcass, have a bulky look not as refined as the smaller ones also present in the Wagon Deck.

I could see them being made by BL and being repaired in the black citadel since they might have been assigned along with the troops to aid the Iron Legion in their many battle fronts.

When it comes to the Ash Legion… well they must be doing justice to its policy of secrecy since I can´t find any clues apart from the turrets in the personal story.

CureForLiving.5360:

Belzebu.3912:

That holds true in Black Citadel because it is the Iron Legion Citadel, I’m pretty sure that you’ll find Blood Legion engineer creating devastating weapons in the Blood Citadel in the Charr Homelands and Ash Legion creating nasty traps and devices in their Citadel.

In the same way that the Black Citadel has Ash and Blood Legions stationed there I’m sure that there are Iron Legion in both the Ash and Blood Legion territories.

Actually, in the pre-release articles anyway (so bear in mind ANet could change this), it was implied that Ascalon is the only place where the legions collaborate, on account of being the only place where their ancestral common foe still gave them grief.

For myself, all three legions represent various branches of the armed forces. Iron; armour, mechanized infantry and the army in general. Blood; elite ground forces – Marines etc… Ash; Psy-op’s, recon, commandos, infiltration, spying etc…

I’ve also found that the Charr possess elements of ancient Sparta (the fahrar), Imperial Rome and perhaps, the mongols as well. All in all, a very martial culture.

Nice to meet such legendary artist

Yes, I also think that the legions looks a lot like the armed forces, but like in RL we have jet pilots in the Army (normally from Air Force), heavy vehicles in the infantry (normally from Cavalry) and so on, so we can find Blood and Ash Legion engineers, even though Iron legion are the main ones.

We also could go back all the way lorewise to the beginning of the high legions. The charr have always been a race that thrived in war, to the point where every member of their society craves constant battle. But it was like that even before the legions existed.
The legions came into existance through warbands, that named themselfs after their speciality, since charr can freely choose their surname and even change it during their lifetime.

There are 4 legions, but thats technicly not a given, in theory a warband that gets enough influence, followers and recognition could become a whole new legion, that would be specialized on something new(most likely war-releated, at the end of the day, charr are charr). The only problem with that is that nowadays, all charr are alligned to one of the high legions already, so if members of blood, iron or ash would attempt something like that, they would most likely be killed for treason.
The flame legion though is a traitorlegion already, and now that it is falling appart, maybe some new legions will try to spawn from warbands, trying to abandon that sinking ship, even though it is highly unlikely.

Seishiro.7468:

The legions came into existance through warbands, that named themselfs after their speciality, since charr can freely choose their surname and even change it during their lifetime.

Not… quite. The legions- the High Legions we see in game, that is- were the personal forces of the four foremost heirs of the last Khan-Ur. While it is probably true their current inclinations stem from the inclinations of their first imperators or their role in the Khan-Ur’s army, they didn’t just aggregate out of like-minded warbands- they owe their existence to the now only theoretical greater charr command structure, and to start a new legion you still need to at least pretend to descent from the Khan-Ur.

I don’t really think charr give a kitten about bloodlines, techically they would have to pass on the legiontitelpart of their warbandname(flame, blood, iron, and ash) but none of them have those anymore, I mean Smodur doesn’t even have a warband at all and only gets called the unflinching therefore.

But unlike humans bloodlines don’t matter to much to the charr, children get tossed into the fahrar and while there is some sort of connection to the name of your sire, I can’t see a system that treats family this loosely to be particullary concerned about the bloodlines, the only races that care about their blood that much are the humans and the jotun.

It is also not said btw, that those 4 were the only children of the khan ur, there are theories about him having more than 4 children, but at the end of the day, that part of charr history is crowded in mystery, since we don’t actually know who assassinated the last Khan-Ur back then.

From The Ecology of the Charr : “No Charr knows how many cubs the last Khan-Ur sired, but all four of the High Legions claim descendants from his line. Other heirs are suspected, and occasionally a smaller bloodline surfaces with claim–but none have made a successful bid. The four heirs of the Khan-Ur began the four High Legions and named them after their warbands–the Iron Legion, Flame Legion, Blood Legion and Ash Legion. The leaders of these legions maintained their familial name, keeping surnames such as Flamebringer, Ashclaw, and Ironstrike to delineate their warband’s primacy within the legion… Each proclaims its right to the throne, tracing its members’ lineage back to one of the children of the original Khan-Ur. There are smaller legions, both independent and absorbed within the larger legion banner, but few of them can prove their ancestry from a known cub of the Khan-Ur. Still, some bands occasionally try to justify their separate identity either through blood of military strength, claiming independence and raising a new banner… The primus warband of any legion carries the name of that legion–Ash, Blood, Iron and in the case of the Gold Legion, Flame. This singular legion is hereditary, but the leader must claim the name through blood challenge–a fight between descendants of the Khan-Ur for supremacy within the legion. Occasionally, non-descendants of the Khan-Ur join the primus warband, taking the name of their leader as their own, as is Charr tradition. But the leader of the primus is always a descendant of the Khan-Ur, the foremost heir of the legion and their rightful inheritor of the crown of leadership among the Charr.”

That isn’t all directly related to your points, I just wanted us to be on the same page as for what the canon has been stated to be. I try not to argue interpretation- why bother when you could just as easily be wrong as the other party?- so I’ll settle for admitting that I partially misremembered earlier, and the article implies that military strength can be enough to found a ‘lesser’ legion; and that the hereditary name seems to no longer be canon, but the hereditary leadership hasn’t been contradicted. I am curious, though- why do you think Smodur doesn’t have a warband? Is it just because he uses a title instead of a surname, or have you seen something I haven’t?

Aaron Ansari.1604:

CureForLiving.5360:

Belzebu.3912:

That holds true in Black Citadel because it is the Iron Legion Citadel, I’m pretty sure that you’ll find Blood Legion engineer creating devastating weapons in the Blood Citadel in the Charr Homelands and Ash Legion creating nasty traps and devices in their Citadel.

In the same way that the Black Citadel has Ash and Blood Legions stationed there I’m sure that there are Iron Legion in both the Ash and Blood Legion territories.

Actually, in the pre-release articles anyway (so bear in mind ANet could change this), it was implied that Ascalon is the only place where the legions collaborate, on account of being the only place where their ancestral common foe still gave them grief.

In an interview around release https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TKBmx1Pt5k it’s made clear that Ash and Iron are beneath Blood Legion rules in Blood Legion territory, Iron and Blood under Ash Legion rules in Ash Legion territory and Blood and Ash under Iron Legion rules in Iron Legion territory. It seems like an odd set of rules if Blood, Ash and Iron only work together in Iron Legion territory.

It seemed to me not a set of rules, but an example of the simple rule that each legion is supreme in its own territory, but you could be right. Would you like me to dig up the lines I remember that indicate Ascalon is a special case?

Aaron Ansari.1604:

I am curious, though- why do you think Smodur doesn’t have a warband? Is it just because he uses a title instead of a surname, or have you seen something I haven’t?

Yeah, it kind of is about the title. You sometimes find Charr in the world that only use a titel, but all of those appear to have no warband, for example “>nameihaveforgotten< the immortal” in Orr, is a charr without a warband that earned his titel that way(well in his case it was kind of a mocking titel, because he seemed to survive everything and other charr started to belive he would run away whenever there is danger).
Of course I might be wrong about this, but I can’t think of any charr that still has a warband and doesn’t use the warbandname, some don’t have a warband anymore but still carry on with their name, but not the other way round.
I mean you can see how important the warband structure is to the charr by their memorial place where only warband names are, and since you see some charr that still have a warbandname AND a titel, it would make no sense for Smodur to be only called “the unflinching” if he still had a warband(I don’t think there is any cannon about it, but Smodur also has only one eye, maybe he was the only one in his warband that survived something? There are even rumors about him pulling it out himself, but those are only rumors I belive)

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Would you like me to dig up the lines I remember that indicate Ascalon is a special case?

If it wouldn’t be too much effort. Would personally prefer an in-game source as apposed to a out-of-game source.

Seishiro.7468:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

I am curious, though- why do you think Smodur doesn’t have a warband? Is it just because he uses a title instead of a surname, or have you seen something I haven’t?

Yeah, it kind of is about the title. You sometimes find Charr in the world that only use a titel, but all of those appear to have no warband, for example “>nameihaveforgotten< the immortal” in Orr, is a charr without a warband that earned his titel that way(well in his case it was kind of a mocking titel, because he seemed to survive everything and other charr started to belive he would run away whenever there is danger).
Of course I might be wrong about this, but I can’t think of any charr that still has a warband and doesn’t use the warbandname, some don’t have a warband anymore but still carry on with their name, but not the other way round.
I mean you can see how important the warband structure is to the charr by their memorial place where only warband names are, and since you see some charr that still have a warbandname AND a titel, it would make no sense for Smodur to be only called “the unflinching” if he still had a warband(I don’t think there is any cannon about it, but Smodur also has only one eye, maybe he was the only one in his warband that survived something? There are even rumors about him pulling it out himself, but those are only rumors I belive)

I can give you two counterexamples:
1. Howl the Brazen. At the start of the game, he’s either the legionnaire or second-in-command of the player character’s warband (depending on legion).
2. Sicaea the Shrouded. Current member of Ash Tribune Torga Desertgrave’s warband.

This is kind of a tricky subject, because most charr don’t outright state their warband; generally, we have to make an educated guess based on who they’re stationed with. Usually, that amounts to “who’s nearby that shares part of their surname?” – which, of course, automatically excludes “titled” charr from consideration.

Regarding Smodur—yes, we don’t know any members (past or present) of his warband. We also don’t know who’s in the Stone warband (Rytlock’s) or the Gore warband (Iron Tribune Bhuer Goreblade’s), even though we know they exist. What happens to the warbands of charr top brass is a bit of a mystery.

In Rytlock’s case, it’s been mentioned a few times that he doesn’t really get along with his warband any more and usually doesn’t associate with them – although apparently the dislike doesn’t go far enough to formally break from it.

Andy Warhol.6250:

For myself, all three legions represent various branches of the armed forces. Iron; armour, mechanized infantry and the army in general. Blood; elite ground forces – Marines etc… Ash; Psy-op’s, recon, commandos, infiltration, spying etc…

That’s not the lore though. Each of the legions are basically their own independent nations or factions. They even war amongst themselves. The only reason they aren’t fighting each other is because there are bigger threats that they have united against.

They’re actually kinda both. There’s the odd reference, although you have to look hard to find them, that the founder of Ash Legion was the Khan-Ur’s spymaster and so on (that specific item is from a trivia contest event that occasionally spawns near the ranch in Ashford just outside the Black Citadel). What’s probably the best way of looking at it was that they started as various branches of the Khan-Ur’s military, but when the Khan-Ur died, the four top generals started fighting over the throne instead of cooperating and the four services grew into four largely independent nation-states.