Guild Wars 2

I’m sorry, but undead is such a tired concept. And Charr, while being enemies in GW1 for a while, are somewhat of a unique take on a fantasy race. Undead? Every single fantasy/sci-fi and non realistic game has them.

Basically, from a lore perspective, it makes perfect sense. Charr always cling to Gods, and after the latest version of their Gods, they turned to worshiping the Dragons. And this leads the other races to stop the Charr and their dragon worshiping ways.

Plus, most GW1 players have never forgiven them for their actions regarding Ascalon, so being given the chance to kick the charr dogs around a bit would feel quite nice.

I’ve forgiven them for Ascalon. Humans kicked the Charr out, and the fact that it took the Charr ~1100 years to reclaim their land means nothing. In the end, the land was the Charr’s.
And from a lore perspective it makes NO sense, because:
A) They can’t worship all the dragons.
B) They don’t cling to gods, they clung to ONE type of false gods, the titans, and that ended horribly because the humans totally murdered their so called “gods”.
Also, personally, I’ve wanted to play as a Charr since I first saw them in Ascalon back in 2007 when I bought the game..

Also, I agree that undead are somewhat chewed up. This should be the last time (till Palawa Joko!!) that we are really fighting undead as the main enemy. Hopefully.

Land was the Charrs?

That’s a bit flimsy. It just goes back to ‘finders keepers’, goes to ‘who had it first’, rather than ‘who deserves it’.

Fact is, Ascalon was a peaceful and civilized nation, and charr were a bunch of rabid, stupid dogs. All they had was brute strength.

Their claim to the land is no stronger, than that of a bears, to America.

If it so happens that millions of bears suddenly destroy America, it doesn’t make them right.

Well there is plenty more in the game then undead, they are simply the first and biggest enemy in the end. however we will be fighting the other dragons, this is only the start, we got lava, ice, crystal, probably some under sea one, and maybe a plant dragon to deal with still. There will be plenty more in the future.

Nah I’d rather have the race that’s the sole reason I got the game for.

Prophecies Charr were what you described. Then Anet wanted to give them more character and started to prepare them for being playable race in Gwen and to lesser extent in nightfall.

Also “always cling to gods” ?
They took Titans as gods after humans conquered them, because they thought gods were what gave humans the victory. After hacing their god defeated, and with flame legion trying to establish destroyers as gods, the situation developed into interlegion war and cultural revolution with conclusion that the Charr don´t have gods.
I fail to see how that is clinging…

And then the claim to the land…. doesn´t really matter.
Charr are painted as ruthless militaristic race. They felt the land belonged to them, they took it. Reasons they felt it belonged to them doesn´t matter as it´s always wrong from human perspective and same goes the other way around.

Other than that matter you´re right though, undead and the corruption theme going on with the dragons in general is a bit boring. It´s black and white, they´re bad guys, we´re good guys. We fight them because they´ve been corrupted.

leviathonlx.2437:

Nah I’d rather have the race that’s the sole reason I got the game for.

Sole reason?

Ouch.

Charr are, in my opinion, terrible, and only worthy of our hatred, bullets, steel and offensive magic.

At least with the way the games lore is set out, its likely that the charr, after defeating the dragons, will attack the civilized races and then, be wiped out as the truly civilized races wipe them out.

Lyuben.2613:

leviathonlx.2437:

Nah I’d rather have the race that’s the sole reason I got the game for.

Sole reason?

Ouch.

Charr are, in my opinion, terrible, and only worthy of our hatred, bullets, steel and offensive magic.

At least with the way the games lore is set out, its likely that the charr, after defeating the dragons, will attack the civilized races and then, be wiped out as the truly civilized races wipe them out.

And at the same time Asura are pretty open about considering themselves a superior race and trying to take over the world.
Also humans would propably do the same if they could…they´ve done it in the past remember.

Not being a fan of undead as the bad guys is fine but your really trying to paint the charr to suit your take on lore when the current games lore paints a very different picture.

Also a beastial enemy race is hardly original in fantasy. What makes the charr unique is what Arenanet has done with them since Prophecies. Prior to that they were fire loving beastmen.

As for the current charr, their expansionist nature is hardly unique. Humans pushed themselves on to everyone else when they were on top. If anything the tone of GW2 suggests a change in the tone of constant fighting for power and a move to more civil relations between the races including the charr.

The type of charr you want to fight exist in the form of the Flame Legion and you can go battle them to your hearts content.

Lyuben.2613:

leviathonlx.2437:

Nah I’d rather have the race that’s the sole reason I got the game for.

Sole reason?

Ouch.

Charr are, in my opinion, terrible, and only worthy of our hatred, bullets, steel and offensive magic.

At least with the way the games lore is set out, its likely that the charr, after defeating the dragons, will attack the civilized races and then, be wiped out as the truly civilized races wipe them out.

You act like races like the Asura don’t actually tell you they want to take over the world. And the humans were the same way when they initially came to Tyria. While the charr on the other hand seem to only want to keep Ascalon besides the Flame Legion which are exactly the type of charr you’re talking about.

GW has always been about zombies!

First you had the Orrian zombies in Prophecies commanded by the Sceptor of Orr and an Undead Lich…. Then you had Afflicted in Factions.. And then in Nightfall you had Palawa Joko and his worthless bits of animated anatomy!

The only GW campaign not about zombies was Eye of the North…

My main complaint about zombies in GW2 was the fact that the story did not delve into the different “species” of Undead. Unlike the Risen, Joko’s undead are each unique individuals with a consciousness and personality, as opposed to a mindless corpse.

If we were shown different kinds of undead, then the Risen would have established a more unique identity for themselves besides just being zombies…

Even before Nightfall, the Afflicted established a very unique lore and appearance for themselves which differentiated from a Necromancer’s minions and Orr’s Undead. However, the perspective of GW2 was just… Zombies…

Anyways, Guild Wars has always been about Undead, and I actually like how zombies are the major enemy instead of a Halloween foe like in other games. I just think the perspective could have been better.

leviathonlx.2437:

You act like races like the Asura don’t actually tell you they want to take over the world. And the humans were the same way when they initially came to Tyria. While the charr on the other hand seem to only want to keep Ascalon besides the Flame Legion which are exactly the type of charr you’re talking about.

I think the more truthfull version of that is the Asura plan to inherit Tyria, not conquer it. Theres a big difference between those two lines of actions.

The Charr sucks, they make even orcs in most other fantasy stories look really nobel.

Lutinz.6915:

As for the current charr, their expansionist nature is hardly unique. Humans pushed themselves on to everyone else when they were on top.

Which is incidentally the main reason the centaurs hate humans, as far as I can tell.

Vlaxitov.5693:

leviathonlx.2437:

You act like races like the Asura don’t actually tell you they want to take over the world. And the humans were the same way when they initially came to Tyria. While the charr on the other hand seem to only want to keep Ascalon besides the Flame Legion which are exactly the type of charr you’re talking about.

I think the more truthfull version of that is the Asura plan to inherit Tyria, not conquer it. Theres a big difference between those two lines of actions.

The Charr sucks, they make even orcs in most other fantasy stories look really nobel.

Most orcs in fantasy aren’t “nobel”. It’s really only Warcraft and Elder Scrolls. In almost any other fantasy franchise, the orcs are pretty much jerks.

Kain Francois.4328:

GW has always been about zombies!

First you had the Orrian zombies in Prophecies commanded by the Sceptor of Orr and an Undead Lich…. Then you had Afflicted in Factions.. And then in Nightfall you had Palawa Joko and his worthless bits of animated anatomy!

The only GW campaign not about zombies was Eye of the North…

My main complaint about zombies in GW2 was the fact that the story did not delve into the different “species” of Undead. Unlike the Risen, Joko’s undead are each unique individuals with a consciousness and personality, as opposed to a mindless corpse.

If we were shown different kinds of undead, then the Risen would have established a more unique identity for themselves besides just being zombies…

Even before Nightfall, the Afflicted established a very unique lore and appearance for themselves which differentiated from a Necromancer’s minions and Orr’s Undead. However, the perspective of GW2 was just… Zombies…

Anyways, Guild Wars has always been about Undead, and I actually like how zombies are the major enemy instead of a Halloween foe like in other games. I just think the perspective could have been better.

It’s cuz they’re probably saving Joko Undead for a playable race.

The thing about undead is that we can all agree to hate them. In a multi-racial fantasy, most enemies aren’t going to be enemies to everyone. The undead are abominable though, and all the different religions and peoples are united in disapproving of them. They pose a danger to the order of things. Plus, unlike something like the Destroyers, they hit everything equally – we see Risen humans, asura, charr, etc.

Corruption is a good theme. It’s scarier than straight death, it’s not an ending, but a twisting. This is why so many fantasy stories employ the undead as bad guys.

“Charr always cling to Gods” seems like a far-fetched statement. As has been said, charr accepted the Titans as gods in the hope that it would give them power to fight the humans – which, in fact, it did. Once the shamans’ rule became too oppressive (also once they lost the actual power that backed them up – not a coincidence!) the charr threw them off. They are independent and prefer to trust in what they can control – technology.

Oh, and painting them as savage mindless brutes just because we never saw them do anything but fight? Pretty ignorant if you think of it in real world parallels. Personally I think the step from fire worship to industry makes perfect sense.

Lyuben.2613:

Land was the Charrs?

That’s a bit flimsy. It just goes back to ‘finders keepers’, goes to ‘who had it first’, rather than ‘who deserves it’.

Fact is, Ascalon was a peaceful and civilized nation, and charr were a bunch of rabid, stupid dogs. All they had was brute strength.

Their claim to the land is no stronger, than that of a bears, to America.

If it so happens that millions of bears suddenly destroy America, it doesn’t make them right.

Land was the Charrs, says so in the official lore. As for who deserved it, you mean who fought harder for it? Let us go with that logic for the moment, yes the humans took over Ascalon…. but then they were defeated and Charr retook the city (with heavy costs) so by your logic the Charr deserve it.

Indians not bears. When Europeans came to America they fought Native Americans which were labelled Indians (a history book will explain why) so that final statement of yours is wrong. If you had said devourers now I would get it as they are the animals that inhabit the land before humans came along, that would make logical sense for your bear comment as Europeans didn’t fight bears when they came over so of course they would not hold land claim.

Although you might want to fight Charr as the main enemy it does not work for the lore of GW2 as much as you like, as it is explained you could fight the flame legion for your giggles but don’t expect them to change their lore for you, “their lore”.

Humans got magic, tried to take over the whole world (savage animals) and destroy everything else, its been thousands of years and they are still clinging to the same gods.

Just needed to be said.

The entire argument surrounding the charr taking back their land is pretty flawed, considering they were prepared to wipe out humanity as a whole and indirectly caused both Ascalon and Orr to be destroyed.

That is something that has gone largely unacknowledged in favour of forcing the charr into a faction that doesn’t really suit them when they retain so many aspects of their past behaviour. It wasn’t so long ago that they were eating and torturing prisoners.

Are humans perfect? No, far from – though they erected a wall to keep the charr out and only went out of their way to try and annihilate the charr after they destroyed two of their kingdoms.

In addition, it baffles me that we’re meant to believe that Ascalon has been forgotten by many humans after 250 years when the charr spent roughly 1200 trying to reclaim it.

The Charr race advanced over the years, the humans were reasonable enough for the most part.

Did the charr truly advance, or were they simply given convenient plot devices that made other races seem incompetant? They were pretty savage and tribal back when we first saw them and that wasn’t too long ago, yet mysteriously they’ve become a much more organised and formidable force with technology on their side.

Which would be perfectly fine if humanity had advanced as well. The strongest selling point of humans in this setting is supposed to be their determination, religion and ability to adapt.

So with that in mind, it’s a real shame to see that the religion aspect is currently just flavour now that the Six have mysteriously vanished (though it may be addressed at a later date) and the ‘determination’ and ‘ability to adapt’ involves fawning over Jennah and her peace talks or ending up branded as an enemy.

Whilst I don’t think the undead are “boring”, I do agree that the Charr would’ve served better as an antagonist, and for similar reasons I don’t want to see the centaurs added as a race.

The humans are described as a very wilful, spirited race. I’d like to see this pay dividends, and for once for the “dying” elder race to stand up for itself. If they’ve existed as long as they have, they have the scrappiness, wherewithal and know-how to rise back to the top. The amount of “lol big races rulez XDDDD” in fantasy is getting a bit boring in itself.

I also dislike how my characters have to fawn over Jennah and agree with her method of bolstering the humans. Why should they? Maybe they dislike the Charr and her.

Good points, Moragauth! I’d also like to add that I don’t find the undead boring, either. I believe they’ve been done exceptionally well in this setting and are actually creepy rather than comical as is the trope often embraced elsewhere.

Black and white is boring for a story, and in retrospect, humans are far worse than charr. In fact, all conflict in the entirety of GW1 came from humans and their gods. If humans hadnt misused the magic the gods granted them, the gods wouldnt have had to limit them through the bloodstones, and if the gods hadn’t had to limit the magic of the mortals, abbadon wouldn’t have rebelled and then fallen, after witch sending the titans to lead the charr against the human civilizations, drive shiro mad, and attempting to end the world in Nightfall. In fact, humans are the source, indirectly or directly, of all conflict on Tyria, everything was fine until they came into being.

Humans arrogance is what lead to their downfall more than the charr. Frankly i see abbadon sicking the charr on them as karma, past deeds catching up to them. In addition humans had the biggest, most powerful kingdoms in existance, how is it that a broken race of “savages” utterly crushed them? Seems that humans thought themselves so untouchable that they never even thought something would rise to challenge them. Play the start of GW1 and you will so how lax and arrogant the residents of ascolon are before the searing

Even in EotN, charr weren’t depicted as inherently evil, cause frankly that wouldn’t make for a convincing plot, there need to be greys within sides of a good story.

^ Can’t say I’m impressed either. The Charr aren’t the main villains and shouldn’t be.

Wow… you know the game encourages roleplay when I’m actually offended by this.. I realize it’s silly of course, but as a charr character, and someone who read up all the lore of the Charr I can no help but disagree! The searing was an act of war during the war between humans and Charr, the humans took Ascalon from the Charr of course they had a right to take it!. Comparing the Charr to Bears is a bit silly, it’s more like comparing them to tribal communities, and you are saying you would slaugher Aboriginees to take their homes? because THAT is what this is like.

They didn’t have a ‘right’ to take Ascalon back at all. It’s just a poorly thought out plot device considering it screws over the human race from a lore point of view. Whilst the charr get to strut around Ascalon, humanity spends most of its time fawning over Queen Jennah and her peace treaty when by all accounts they should hold much more contempt for the charr (and to a lesser extent the lesser races) and be reluctant to water down their culture and history further.

It’s been brought up countless times before, but why is it viewed as acceptable for the charr to bear a grudge for 1200 years and yet humans shift entirely in their viewpoint in the space of 250 when…most of their current issues can be pinned on the charr?

“Charr have no Gods.”

If you want to continue this line of thinking, you need to seperate the charr into two different sects. The first are essentially atheist. They have no Gods, and believe in their own power and only that. These are the main charr that actually work with the rest of the world.

The Flame Legion cling to the need for a God or Gods that the shamans of the Flame Legion originally “invented” or “discovered”. If they cannot find Gods to worship (preferably the fiery painbringer type) they will create one (Baelfire).

ALL Charr do not believe this, and before their worship of the titans (ala Flame Legion shamans), charr were much as they are now, albeit more peaceful herders. The introduction of humans into their lands, the Flame Legion shamans turning them to God worship, and the removal of females from any positions of power were all newer changes to the charr lifestyle.

Garenthal.1480:

They didn’t have a ‘right’ to take Ascalon back at all. It’s just a poorly thought out plot device considering it screws over the human race from a lore point of view. Whilst the charr get to strut around Ascalon, humanity spends most of its time fawning over Queen Jennah and her peace treaty when by all accounts they should hold much more contempt for the charr (and to a lesser extent the lesser races) and be reluctant to water down their culture and history further.

It’s been brought up countless times before, but why is it viewed as acceptable for the charr to bear a grudge for 1200 years and yet humans shift entirely in their viewpoint in the space of 250 when…most of their current issues can be pinned on the charr?

Im starting to think that there is going to be no convincing you but Ill still try once more.

Firstly, the humans didnt stop fighting the charr after the wall went up. Infact they kept pushing further north for a long time after Ascalon had been established. That comes from prophecies. Hell, the capitol was originally far north of the wall. It wasnt till the charr invasion that it got relocated to Rin.

Secondly, who has a ‘right’ to lands is entirely a think of opinion. Since the human ‘right’ to Ascalon came originally through conquest, then the charr’s method of taking it back would seem perfectly in sinc.

Thirdly, Jennah established the peace treaty out of neccesity. She was very supportive of Ebonhawke, which I might add isnt actually part of her kingdom, in their war against the charr. Her choice to establish the peace treaty is practical rather than some pasifist and ‘lets love everyone’ drive. She, accurately, realised that humanity didnt have time to keep fighting a lost war. It had to cut its losses. There was no way humans were going to defeat the EDs and unless nations started to organised to fight them it was a matter of time before everyone was screwed.

More over she seems to have cut a pretty good deal for Ebonhawke. They are getting quite a bit of land north of the fortress. More over the Legions are having to help them establish the area and clear out undesirables.

Also how do we fawn over Jennah any more than Rurik, Adelbern and Kiru?

Fourth, if you actually visit the Fields of Ruin or spend some time walking around Divinity’s Reach you’d notice that humans havent all forgotten their conflict with the charr overnight. Its still as sore point that comes up alot. Universally though, the comments on it tend to point towards letting go of past hatreds for the sake of securing a better future. War against the charr at this point yealds no real results.

Fifth, the charr play a small if important part in the downfall of the human nations in Tyria. Abaddon, one of their former gods, and their own infighting plays a much bigger part. Infact Ascalon’s doom was contributed greatly to by Adelbern not being able to let go of old hatreds in the face of a greater threat.

Finally, the worst of the behaviour you attribute to the charr is generally done by members of the Flame Legions. This isnt a retcon. It was simply and expansion of established lore to give the charr more than two demensions. I like having races with more than two demensions. Hell, the skritt and the quaggan have depth.

humanity spends most of its time fawning over Queen Jennah and her peace treaty…

I don’t know if I’d say all or even most of humanity feels this way. Sure, player characters tend to be pointed towards supporting Jennah, but player characters of all races tend to be encouraged towards the Orders’ ideas about uniting the races against a common foe. The division between humans and charr is no longer as relevant as it once was (the charr having changed), and it’s actively hindering efforts against the dragons.

Humanity is not Ascalon. Many, many of the current Krytans are descended from Krytan, Elonan or Canthan humans, none of whom had any reason to feel strongly about the charr. Ascalonians are only a small sub-set. And there are humans who stubbornly hold to the idea that Ascalon is important and should be theirs; have you been to Ebonhawke lately? It’s no coincidence that fortress was founded by Gwen, who was determined to see the charr as savage beasts.

…when by all accounts they should hold much more contempt for the charr (and to a lesser extent the lesser races) and be reluctant to water down their culture and history further.

This is just plain unfortunate. Put it in real world terms. We mustn’t mix with the other people around our nation! We risk watering down our culture with their savagery! I shan’t be letting my children see the world, they might come to believe that there are ways of life other than my own and that foreigners are people too… you get my drift.

Lyuben.2613:

At least with the way the games lore is set out, its likely that the charr, after defeating the dragons, will attack the civilized races and then, be wiped out as the truly civilized races wipe them out.

You haven’t played much of Ascalon have you?

Role a charr, it may help you realize this line of thinking’s false. Go to Fields of Ruin, you’ll see dozens of charr talking about how they’re interested in seeing how humans fight alongside them and judging their worth.

Charr are already good friends with norn, and have decent relationships with asura. Sylvari are fairly unknown. But a lot of the higher level Ascalon areas feature a lot of charr-human cohabitance beyond the reach of the peace treaty. Only Flame Legion and Renegades are anti-humans more or less. There are still some charr throughout that dislike humans and only pay attention due to their orders from the Imperators, but its those imperators’ opinions and orders that matter. And both Malice (Ash Imperator) and Smodur (Iron Imperator) are set in peace with humanity. Smodur even seems highly willing to give up plenty of land to Ascalonian humans for the peace treaty.

If anything is clear, it’s that to the charr that aren’t Renegades or Flame Legion, what the three Imperators say, goes. Irregardless of their own feelings. And many charr don’t mind the peace treaty (while others only mind due to having been raised to hate humans in the fahrar).

For the record, Ascalon may not have belonged to the Charr first. It’s possible the Forgotten lived there first and the Charr pushed them out

Lyuben.2613:

Land was the Charrs?

That’s a bit flimsy. It just goes back to ‘finders keepers’, goes to ‘who had it first’, rather than ‘who deserves it’.

Fact is, Ascalon was a peaceful and civilized nation, and charr were a bunch of rabid, stupid dogs. All they had was brute strength.

Their claim to the land is no stronger, than that of a bears, to America.

If it so happens that millions of bears suddenly destroy America, it doesn’t make them right.

Sounds to me like you’re just a typical pissy Ascalonian who isn’t over the charr-human war XD
They weren’t rapid stupid dogs, but the breakdown of their government and constant pressure of a losing war prevented their society from advancing. The same thing happens to the humans after they are driven from Ascalon and Elona—allowing the charr to gain some stability and catch up with them.

It would have been equally as boring if the charr had remained the enemy. They would just become another mindless Orc horde (with fur) to go out and slaughter.

Honestly, I think it would have been cool if Abbadon had managed to escape Torment and corrupt a good portion of the world. Fighting armies of Torment minions and an evil, destructive God would be way more interesting then dragons & zombies, or fluffy Orcs XD

Lyuben.2613:

At least with the way the games lore is set out, its likely that the charr, after defeating the dragons, will attack the civilized races and then, be wiped out as the truly civilized races wipe them out.

I’m afraid not XD. The charr and norn like each other too much, I suspect they’ll leave one another alone. The asura are too useful to be attacked.

Charr and humans might go to war again, though. The Sylvari would probably side with the humans. A good number of Norn would probably be recruited to fight with the Charr.
So at the end of the day, it depends on what the Asura do :P

Charr are one of the enemies. Just wait for the whole expansion that fills out the Flame Legion Homelands.

Id like to put in one thing, if charr were the many enemy, this game would not be possible to beat

They’d drive over the humans with their tanks and destroy them with their airships and submarines. Also remember 1 charr in battle =10 humans

The charr failed to conquer Ebonhawke after a two hundred year seige. For all their industry they are hardly invincable.

If you want to kill charr, go kill flame legion or branded. As for the undead, yeah thats a tad old, Anet could have done better like have some sort of reptilian army that stands on their hind legs, not like how our dinosaurs are but like how the Kodan are, standing up straight with their neck jutting out, also much like the charr’s.

Tom Gore.4035:

Lyuben.2613:

Their claim to the land is no stronger, than that of a bears, to America.

So you’re saying that native Americans were just the middlemen and they deserved to be (nearly) wiped out, because the Europeans just took the land from bears?

Wat

The point is simply this: land does not belong to whomever had it first.

If Charr had it first, it does not make them right.

actually, to be honest… humans are the worst race in tyria, lore wise. they got magic and abused it. they killed for fun, for evil. they raided ascalon and took it from the charr (who were actually there first.. the gods created them), killing a lot of them in the process.

long story short, humans deserved it.

“Tyria flourished under the protection and the care of the gods. To aid them and serve as caretakers, the gods had servants – a race of serpentine creatures, now called the Forgotten. The Forgotten were meant to shepherd, teach, and care for the growing world, as well as the other beings that were to come.

It wasn’t long before Tyria was home to many: the charr, tengu, minotaur, dwarves, centaur and others. Finally, another race came to Tyria and they brought with them a desire for domination. They were humans.

Humans quickly spread and began to conquer all the lands they encountered.

… They clearcut jungles, preyed upon other creatures, and invaded the domains of the other races. This was when the humans drove the charr from their homeland, the region of Ascalon."

ascalon was and is 100% without a doubt charr homeland. the humans took that away from them. i completely understand them fighting for it back.

ROGUEbabydoll.4208:

actually, to be honest… humans are the worst race in tyria, lore wise. they got magic and abused it. they killed for fun, for evil. they raided ascalon and took it from the charr (who were actually there first.. the gods created them), killing a lot of them in the process.

long story short, humans deserved it.

“Tyria flourished under the protection and the care of the gods. To aid them and serve as caretakers, the gods had servants – a race of serpentine creatures, now called the Forgotten. The Forgotten were meant to shepherd, teach, and care for the growing world, as well as the other beings that were to come.

It wasn’t long before Tyria was home to many: the charr, tengu, minotaur, dwarves, centaur and others. Finally, another race came to Tyria and they brought with them a desire for domination. They were humans.

Humans quickly spread and began to conquer all the lands they encountered.

… They clearcut jungles, preyed upon other creatures, and invaded the domains of the other races. This was when the humans drove the charr from their homeland, the region of Ascalon."

ascalon was and is 100% without a doubt charr homeland. the humans took that away from them. i completely understand them fighting for it back.

Self hating humans?
Terrible!

Taking Ascalon from the Charr is no different than taking Australia from the Kangaroos, or Europe from the wolves. Charr were simply savage and uncivilized, like the flaura and fauna around the place.

I hardly think that the sylvari trees belong to the spiders simply because the spiders were there first.

you call them uncivilized, but they were advanced enough to have recorded history. if you were to compare them to anything, compare them to skritt, quaggan, or hylek.

also, your comparison is incorrect, the charr OWNED the lands, not just lived on it, and if you really want to compare charr to animals, here’s one:
try taking a bear’s den and see where that lands you.

if charr weren’t sapient, sure you’d have a point, but the fact that they have records of living in ascalon means they had the ability to record knowledge and pass it down, therefore, they were sapient

your comparison is like if advanced aliens came to earth and kicked everyone out of america because “they aren’t as civilised as us and therefore don’t own the land”

If I may provide something to counterpoint the ‘Charr were justified in retaking Ascalon’…

They initially conquered it as well from the other races that surrounded them (Grawl, Ogres, etc.), as mentioned in the Ecology of the Charr:

“No longer clamoring over the same territories, the unified Charr spread throughout the northern reaches of their homeland, and down into the lands east of the Shiverpeak Mountains. The Charr subjugated or destroyed any and all who dared defy them within their territories; they were masters of all they surveyed.”

So, yeah. To put it mildly, the Charr being all hurt over losing Ascalon (And not, as was shown, their homelands; after all, the Charr Homelands in GW1 were untouched) is quite hypocritical.

I cheered when the seering happened in prophecies. As other’s have pointed out the human’s have caused alot of strife, along with their gods (who_remain suspeciously quiet..). As for recent human failing’s nothing beat’s Logan running out on destiny’s edge for a skirt, in their fight with the big K. Which led to Snaff getting killed.

While the humans weren’t right taking it, the Chaar weren’t justified in how they took it back either. Unless you all would be fully accepting of an ancient indigenous group killing everyone in a modern day country for what happened centuries ago?

Anyway a lot can happen in a few hundred years and things seem to have changed for the better.

Becasue it goes with the lore Elder dragons create champions and minions by corrupting the current living beings in Tyria.

Zhaitan uses minions corrupted by death

Jormag uses minions corrupted by frost

Klaky are all crystal corrupted minions.

Primordus are all lava/rock like minions.

You can argue that all them uses undead in a way they just look different because of the type corruption that turned them.

Pretty sure Jormag’s are all alive still

The OP’s argument seems to rest on the assumption that pre-Searing charr were simple, animalistic savages. Despite having language, culture, the ability to make weapons, armour and tools…

Your definition of ‘uncivilized’ is pretty loose. ‘Tribal’ may mean ‘uncivilized’ by some definitions, but that doesn’t make tribal people any less people. They have complex cultural and practical systems suited to their sustainable way of life, and often more complex family/tribe/totem relationships and obligations than ‘civilized’ people do. The charr are, and were, the same.

Humans are charr are at war. Have been for centuries. Neither of them is right, that’s kind of how war works after this long.

The same can be said for the Grawl and the Heket yet no one has qualms about slaughtering them on a massive scale or just using them as cannon fodder.

As for the Charr, I too dislike how my character is pushed and forced into helping them on every occassion. Furthermore, making players hack through ghosts of Ascalonians really does nothing to advance the role-playing part. What if my character is of Ascalonian descent? How is making that character kill ghosts of her ancestors in order to help the Charr considered as good role-playing?

No, you can’t. Because the game makes you kill Ascalonian ghosts in order to help the Charr. You are not presented with an option to tell them to kitten themselves and if you ignore the Hearts, you cannot complete the map. Roleplaying is freedom to choose between several choices. Being forced to do something your character finds objectable is not good roleplaying.

Firing cannons at the Wall doesn’t help either.