Guild Wars 2

Both their names start with R…….. Your minds have been relatively blown.

Jokes aside, I find it curious that Rytlock dives into the mists, gets reborn and comes out with a power seemingly close to that of the Ritualist. Compare that to Razah who is born of the mists and it comes out as a Ritualist in GW1 as well.
The resemblance is a bit weird. They both are wearing blindfolds and whilst this can be chucked up to Ritualists being what they were in GW1, the question would be; why is Rytlock wearing a blindfold then? And seemingly every Revenant we’ve seen. Just look at the art for the Revenant on the GW2 page, he’s also wearing a blindfold AND bears a striking resemblance to Razah (only someone forgot the chin tattoos). Coincidence? Possibly.
You could also change Razah’s Primary profession (not on the fly but you can do it after completing a quest for him), Rytlock can seemingly change his Primary skills to that of any profession (seemingly on the fly) based off of Tyria’s heroes/villains.

Now, this comparison comes with the theory that if Razah was born in GW2, he’d be a Revenant. Simply due to the facts stated above as well as Anet’s willingness to change everything so that they downplay the role of the gods and the role of human ancestors, just so that each profession fits every race.

The only major difference I find is that, Rytlock is spat out of the mists with a mission, while Razah is like a winnowing child still looking for what he wants.
I think maybe, just maybe, understanding Rytlock will allow us to understand Razah and how he came to be and vice versa.

What are your thoughts on the comparisons?

Blind folds, to me, are symbolic. It was said to see the Gods would blind the observer because it was so much power that the eye of humans could not interpret them. There must be some special connection because I do not think it’s a coincidence in how similar a Revanent and a Ritualist are. But I think the blindness is to symbolize having seen the universe in all its glory and thus aligning one’s own spirit rather than sight – or some other metaphorical cool-nonsense.

Ritualists themselves relied on their spirits to “show them the way” so I do not think this is a coincidence. Makes me wonder if we’ll see the Paragon and Dervish one day in new unique forms that all barrow from the lore.

Ronin.7381:

Blind folds, to me, are symbolic. It was said to see the Gods would blind the observer because it was so much power that the eye of humans could not interpret them. There must be some special connection because I do not think it’s a coincidence in how similar a Revanent and a Ritualist are. But I think the blindness is to symbolize having seen the universe in all its glory and thus aligning one’s own spirit rather than sight – or some other metaphorical cool-nonsense.

Ritualists themselves relied on their spirits to “show them the way” so I do not think this is a coincidence. Makes me wonder if we’ll see the Paragon and Dervish one day in new unique forms that all barrow from the lore.

I doubt we’ll see the Dervish. In fact I think the Guardian Specialization is Dervish but that remains to be seen.

As for Rytlock and his “Revenancy”, I’d like to think he actually met someone in the mists that could explain what he saw (if we were to go according to your theory) because a man doesn’t just go blind, and then automagically know exactly where he has to go to solve the problem plaguing the world.

Food for thought:

Could it be that a new “race” in the likeness of Razah is actually planned? And Anet is just being coy?

Because a new area was data-mined earlier this year before the HoT announcement and it sounded like a training instance to me.

Dirame.8521:

Could it be that a new “race” in the likeness of Razah is actually planned? And Anet is just being coy?

Honestly, I really-really hope that is not the case. Razah was nothing special appearance-wise. He manifested a form based on that which he first received contact from, a human. I’d much rather see Tengu, Hehkets, or some such. Besides, we already got that so far with the Sylvari, I wouldn’t like seeing a new Sylvari 2.0.

“Abaddon is back. WE ARE LEGION FOR WE ARE HIS MINIONS NOW!”

Ronin.7381:

Dirame.8521:

Could it be that a new “race” in the likeness of Razah is actually planned? And Anet is just being coy?

Honestly, I really-really hope that is not the case. Razah was nothing special appearance-wise. He manifested a form based on that which he first received contact from, a human. I’d much rather see Tengu, Hehkets, or some such. Besides, we already got that so far with the Sylvari, I wouldn’t like seeing a new Sylvari 2.0.

“Abaddon is back. WE ARE LEGION FOR WE ARE HIS MINIONS NOW!”

It wouldn’t be about Abaddon but more about the mists and how it functions. It’ll be more like “The mists……., it has always been here, watching, waiting….. for the time to rise!….”

Abaddon is definitely dead… the last interactions of the gods was ensuring a mortal would kill him and then absorb his powers… Then they took off with the mortal to wherever they went. Abaddon wasn’t doing well as it was, he sacrificed most of his body to nearly gain his freedom and to create and recruit followers.

Anyways… I wouldn’t make assumptions yet. We have NO idea where Rytlock went, how he got his power, or how he reclaimed his sword. We don’t know why the sword took him there, we know basically nothing. Rytlock may have met the gods, he may not have, we don’t know.

Another point is, it’s said that looking at the gods can blind mortals… Only one mortal has ever looked at the gods, that was Malchor, he didn’t EXACTLY go blind… but it did go absolutely insane. Also I hate to say it, when I played Nightfall, I got a good luck at that Abaddon fellow, didn’t go blind either. I’m curious if the “Gift of True Sight” can allow mortals to see divine entities. The Mursaat are described a similar way, they have spectral agony where their sight has kitten ing consequences to their viewers as well or something along those lines. But anyways, there’s soooo much grey area, it’s very hard to make any reasonable theories, but I suppose it’s not impossible.

Dirame.8521:

Could it be that a new “race” in the likeness of Razah is actually planned? And Anet is just being coy?

Because a new area was data-mined earlier this year before the HoT announcement and it sounded like a training instance to me.

I recall it being said that was to be a training area for the NPE that was, thankfully, scrapped.

@Ronin and Mushroomz: Both if you got things wrong. I’d explain but tis annoying to type on phone.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Dirame.8521:

Could it be that a new “race” in the likeness of Razah is actually planned? And Anet is just being coy?

Because a new area was data-mined earlier this year before the HoT announcement and it sounded like a training instance to me.

I recall it being said that was to be a training area for the NPE that was, thankfully, scrapped.

I think a new training area would be great though. At least one like the Temple of Balthazar.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

@Ronin and Mushroomz: Both if you got things wrong. I’d explain but tis annoying to type on phone.

I don’t understand what you’re getting at here. I simply made a joke over the idea that the Revenants are inspiring a new race, like Razah. My comment was a remark, not one based on a census of information. :P

Sorry, nearly forgot to reply once I got to a computer.

Ronin.7381:

Razah was nothing special appearance-wise. He manifested a form based on that which he first received contact from, a human.

This is the incorrectness. Razah’s appearance was generated by the Mists. The Mists creates a lot of beings – demons, by lore terminology – that mimic other creatures. Razah was a “perfect mimicry,” so to speak, of a human.

Razah’s appearance wasn’t determined by the first thing to contact him (which were demons/possibly Abaddon), but simply how the Mists made him.

All of that stated downright in Nightfall’s manual.

And for Mushroomz:

Abaddon wasn’t doing well as it was, he sacrificed most of his body to nearly gain his freedom and to create and recruit followers.

He was actually reconstructing his body according to the gw.dat descriptions of various places of the Realm of Torment – something Varesh’s three rituals in Elona allowed. He didn’t sacrifice his body for freedom, he lost it when he was defeated on the shores of the Crystal Sea (this is why his sword, glove, and mask can be found at the Mouth of Torment – during/before Varesh’s third and final ritual).

Mushroomz.4280:

Another point is, it’s said that looking at the gods can blind mortals… Only one mortal has ever looked at the gods, that was Malchor, he didn’t EXACTLY go blind… but it did go absolutely insane.

Actually, more than one mortal looked at the gods. Desmina, Ewan, Sara, Jadoth, King Doric, and the soldiers mentioned in Balthazar’s scriptures all saw gods directly. As did Karei and Kaolai from Cantha. (go ahead and gww those names) Then there was of course our GW1 characters when fighting Abaddon/Dhuum and seeing Kormir’s ascension.

The blinding is not immediate – it takes time. Malchor went blind because he looked at the gods for extended periods of time. And he did go exactly blind. His insanity was caused later – due to his inability to join his love® and his inability to accept the quality of his own work that were the statues of Dwayna. His insanity had little to do with his blindness or seeing the gods.

Mushroomz.4280:

Also I hate to say it, when I played Nightfall, I got a good luck at that Abaddon fellow, didn’t go blind either. I’m curious if the “Gift of True Sight” can allow mortals to see divine entities. The Mursaat are described a similar way, they have spectral agony where their sight has kitten ing consequences to their viewers as well or something along those lines.

As said going blind isn’t an immediate thing.

The Gift of True Sight – for all we can tell – only allows one to see things that people wish kept hidden. Such a spirits who hide from mortal view, or the mursaat who slipped into a semi-dimension (much like spirits). Spectral Agony was 100% unrelated to looking upon them. They were downright invisible to those who didn’t have the Gift of True Sight; Spectral Agony was a spell they developed that seems to be very literal in what it does (especially given that the only two known immune creatures to it are spectral creatures born out of torment, agony, and malice).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Food for thought:

I see a dude in Daedric armor playing pin-the-tail-on-the-Ogrim and someone who probably travels via Lemarchand puzzle box.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

This is the incorrectness. Razah’s appearance was generated by the Mists. The Mists creates a lot of beings – demons, by lore terminology – that mimic other creatures. Razah was a “perfect mimicry,” so to speak, of a human.

Right, so where’s the problem? That’s exactly what happened, his form was based on the first thing he saw as efficient, human. Lets not forget that he had observed the player(s), since we weren’t supposed to “be there” – we were an anomaly that he took interest in. Thus, modeling his physical appearance based on the human form.

You first made it sound like Razah’s form was determined by the first thing he touched. Now you make it sound like Razah chose his form.

Neither are correct.

The Mists created him, and chose his form, and humans weren’t the first – nor the first “efficient” – thing that they touched.

The protomatter that makes up the Mists strains toward creation, often spawning demonic creations in nightmarish forms. Not all creatures from the Mists are demonic, however. When the Mists come into contact with a suitable human template, for example, it can copy that form, creating a sentient entity with humanoid appearance and an almost human mind.

You are correct in saying that he found the PC curious because they weren’t supposed to be there – because they were new. But he did not model his appearance after those humans. He did not chose his appearance – his appearance is not malleable. Just his profession.

The question is, with all this information you’re giving Konig, could it be that Rytlock died in the Mists and the Mists just made a copy of him? And as he’s been a direct part of the mists (based of the fact that he died), he now has all the information he needs to battle the Dragons? No Human god intervention required?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

You first made it sound like Razah’s form was determined by the first thing he touched. Now you make it sound like Razah chose his form.

The Mists created him, and chose his form, and humans weren’t the first – nor the first “efficient” – thing that they touched.

1)
I think they’re one in the same honestly.

2)
The Mists did not choose his form him, he did – albeit sub-consciously. No different than breathing. Much like how birds learn to fly or children to walk and talk. Out of all that was going on in the Realm of Torment, the player(s) were the only ones not supposed to be there and that is what caught his attention and set in motion his coming to be.

“When the Mists come into contact with a suitable human template, for example, it can copy that form, creating a sentient entity with humanoid appearance and an almost human mind.”

You are correct in saying that he found the PC curious because they weren’t supposed to be there – because they were new. But he did not model his appearance after those humans. He did not chose his appearance – his appearance is not malleable. Just his profession.

Were we to look deeper into it, I’d argue there is voluntary and involuntary choice. Through his curiosity the Mists that comprised his form took shape to reflect that. He did not come into contact with demons or any sort first as you suggest, or he would have turned into a demon instead. Be it for better or worse, he followed the Player(s) in order to learn. Developing a moral compass if you will.

his appearance is not malleable

Actually, his existence was malleable…

Razah is one such creation. It has sprung into being a fully-formed adult. It has the knowledge and capabilities of a human, but lacks common sense. As a result, it asks odd questions about human emotions, contemplates human motivations, and attempts to duplicate human mannerisms. Razah is a contradiction: more than human in some ways, and less than human in others. It needs an identity, a personality, and a purpose. Hopefully, it will find its purpose by working with a hero. Otherwise, it could degenerate into an abomination as monstrous and inhuman as its demonic brethren.

Dirame.8521:

The question is, with all this information you’re giving Konig, could it be that Rytlock died in the Mists and the Mists just made a copy of him? And as he’s been a direct part of the mists (based of the fact that he died), he now has all the information he needs to battle the Dragons? No Human god intervention required?

I’m not sure he’s dead. Although, in creating a character to try out the new profession, it wouldn’t be implausible to be a character whose backstory is that they died and were reincarnated through the mists. IE Death Knights – although under very different circumstances. That would be kind of neat but I’m not comfortable with throwing in the towel and pronouncing Rytlock dead… yet.

Ronin.7381:

Dirame.8521:

The question is, with all this information you’re giving Konig, could it be that Rytlock died in the Mists and the Mists just made a copy of him? And as he’s been a direct part of the mists (based of the fact that he died), he now has all the information he needs to battle the Dragons? No Human god intervention required?

I’m not sure he’s dead. Although, in creating a character to try out the new profession, it wouldn’t be implausible to be a character whose backstory is that they died and were reincarnated through the mists. IE Death Knights – although under very different circumstances. That would be kind of neat but I’m not comfortable with throwing in the towel and pronouncing Rytlock dead… yet.

The theory is not that he is dead but that he died only to be reborn.

Ronin.7381:

The Mists did not choose his form him, he did – albeit sub-consciously. No different than breathing. Much like how birds learn to fly or children to walk and talk. Out of all that was going on in the Realm of Torment, the player(s) were the only ones not supposed to be there and that is what caught his attention and set in motion his coming to be.

It outright states that the Mists created him and his form. It is different than breathing or birds learning to fly. It’s like chosing your skin color or your species! You don’t. I mean, did you even read the manual entry for him?

First paragraph: The protomatter that makes up the Mists strains toward creation, often spawning demonic creations in nightmarish forms. Not all creatures from the Mists are demonic, however. When the Mists come into contact with a suitable human template, for example, it can copy that form, creating a sentient entity with humanoid appearance and an almost human mind.

The Mists creates things, often spawning demonic creatures, but not all creatures are demonic in appearance. There are those like Razah which are made as non-demonic, their form taken as copies of something the Mists came into contact with.

To say that Razah chose to look human is like I chose to be a white American male human!

You do not choose how you are created. You choose how to alter your appearance after being created.

Ronin.7381:

his appearance is not malleable

Actually, his existence was malleable…

-snip-

That’s not talking about his appearance. That’s talking about his personality. He is literally born as a blank slate, thus for him it is nurture, not nature, that determines how he’d act. That is what’s meant in what’s being said. It’s not saying that he could suddenly one day turn out to look like this.