Guild Wars 2

Alright, it might be too soon for this, but this has got me thinking. I’ll keep it short.The Elder Dragons seem to be the source of all magic in Tyria. So, by killing them, we’re probably destroying magic itself. If that’s the case, either we’re going to see a lot less necromancers, elementalists, guardians, and mesmers in the future generations. Thoughts?

Other posible consequences to killing EDs would be great too.

BunnytheSwordsman.4173:

Alright, it might be too soon for this, but this has got me thinking. I’ll keep it short.The Elder Dragons seem to be the source of all magic in Tyria. So, by killing them, we’re probably destroying magic itself. If that’s the case, either we’re going to see a lot less necromancers, elementalists, guardians, and mesmers in the future generations. Thoughts?

Other posible consequences to killing EDs would be great too.

Bzzzzzzt

Not correct, the dragons bleed magic while hibernating, but they are not the source of all magic. In fact it’s exactly the opposite, they feed on magic, meaning, while they are active, there is less magic (as indicated in a Asura storyline quest). Killing them means, there will be more magic again.

Other consequences are: The world is a saver place, beings that are made of magic don’t have to hide anymore, there wont be a cycle of life and destruction anymore and no need for the races to unify anymore (could lead to a war).

The source of magic are bloodstones. Altough the source of information on the wiki is unknown I like this phrase: ‘The original Bloodstone was a powerful and large stone that the seers created to contain magic that was not corrupted by the Elder Dragons during their last rise.’

So this is not only telling us something bout the source of magic (wich are the bloodstones) but is actually saying that the magic that we have access to is magic that is actually uncorrupted.

In other words it seems highly unadvisable to use the magic that is bleeding from an elder dragon, cause it seems to be corrupted magic. Better to kill the ED’s and their corrupted magic quickly :P

(link for the quote: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bloodstone )

mercury ranique.2170:

The source of magic are bloodstones. Altough the source of information on the wiki is unknown I like this phrase: ‘The original Bloodstone was a powerful and large stone that the seers created to contain magic that was not corrupted by the Elder Dragons during their last rise.’

The Bloodstone isn’t a source – never was thought to be one. It was first thought to be a sort of filter, but now we know that it was a container (learned from Arah explorable mode – that’s where the sentence you quote comes from).

Magic came from somewhere else before the Bloodstone was made and, furthermore, magic existed in the world via natural means sometime after – as it’s said what drew the Six Gods from the Mists was the magic at The Artesian Waters (where they first arrived on the world).

There is a skill point in Bloodtide Coast, Krait Place of Power, (though sadly the wiki does not have the text) mentions something along the lines of a powerful source of magic coming from deep within the earth. I suspect that magic originates from Tyria itself, that the world is somehow making the magic. Though it may also be that the theory that magic comes from the Mists is true, and it seeps into Tyria through some weakened veil and steadily overtime increases. And when the magic increases to a certain amount, the Elder Dragons awake to the smell of freshly baked pork beef (well, magic, but to them it’d be like fine smelling dinner).

The way you say it makes it almost sound like the Elder Dragons check the amount of magic in the world. Perhaps a side effect of them dying or their cycle being broken would be a biuld up of too much magic. Frankly though we have so little info on the EDs and their origins that its impossible to guess what would be the cost of removing them. Somehow Tyria has recovered in the past from the EDs rampages.

If you’re referring to what I said, Lutinz, then yes, I was trying to make it sound like the Elder Dragons check the amount of magic in the world (the same way we’d check how much food is in our fridge before we go grocery shopping, for example). Though perhaps it’s more instinctive than proactive.

I think Lutinz meant check as in ‘hold back from going over a limit’, not check as in ‘I checked the tempature before going outside’. If the ED’s devour magic, and the amount of magic in the world seems to be increasing, perhaps without the EDs, the amount of magic will become too much.

Sort of like how a prey population will explode without predators, resulting in mass starvation when the prey can’t sustain themselves.

That would be the Elder Dragons keeping magic in check, not checking magic. But syntax regardless, I would imagine that the mere act of using magic would… use it up. Besides, given how they consume until there’s no magic and little life left each cycle, I doubt they’re a natural part of the equation – and if they aren’t, then either nature dictates self-harm (which isn’t very likely) or there’d be a natural stop to the flow of magic/another natural means of removing magic than Elder Dragons eating it.

Though that does bring an interesting postulation – if the Elder Dragons are killed, and there is no other way to keep the supposed constant influx of magic in check, what happens if there’s too much magic?

If too much magic is harmful, then it’s only logical for there to be a natural means to prevent there being too much. If my theory that Elder Dragons are formed from coalesced magic, then the act of there being too much magic in the world may result in an Elder Dragon.

The theory being that, based on the description of Kralkatorrik from Edge of Destiny (him turning into a sandstorm, Glint saying he’s “more magical than physical”) and the shape of Zhaitan, that the appearance of being draconic is just “coincidental” (read: Author’s law – it just happens to be that they take draconic form, there’s no lore reason why they’re dragons, they just are) and they’re nothing more than eldritch abominations formed from magic, becoming slowly sapient via learning what those they corrupt know.

Well, it seems that we’ve come to a completely different problem, thanks to Konig. XD I like this, though. I have a terrible feeling that there aren’t just 6 elder dragons. Tyria, the world, is much larger than just Cantha, Elona, and Tyria, so maybe there are more dragons in other places?

If that would be the case, it would be nteresting to see whether such a high concentration of magic would attract them to Tyria for essentially a feast of feasts.

I kind of figured that’s why there were three (possibly four based on Mordremoth’s position in hibernation) when they went to sleep – they felt the Bloodstone and was searching for it before starving – it was, after all, the last magic source in Tyria at the time. I also figured that’s why Zhaitan was in Arah when he fell asleep, given that the forgotten were there before (Orrian History Scrolls mention Dwayna entering the world and stepping on the stones of Arah, and there’s The Altar of Glaust, where the forgotten freed Glint from Kralkatorrik – this implies Arah predates the Six Gods, or at least existed while the Elder Dragons were last awake).

Reason why I say three or four and not four or five, by the way, is that Jormag seems to be north of continental Tyria (he seems to have woken up closer to the kodan than the norn). I suspect he began just as far from Tyria as the DSD did, but he’s been moving south steadily – heading right to the magical feast of five split bloodstones (so I suspect).

This would also explain why Zhaitan remained relatively in place while no other Elder Dragon except possibly the DSD/Mordremoth (if Mordremoth is awake) remained in the general location for long. Jormag went south for some reason. Kralkatorrik went south after Glint. Primordus is tunneling all over the underground. Why does Zhaitan remain in Orr? Because he happened to wake up at a magical hotspot of delicacies (same reason I suspect Primordus is remaining underground, other than the dwarves – just imagine him having all that ancient asuran magic to feast on – or why Kralkatorrik hasn’t been heard from since Edge of Destiny – so much magic in the Crystal Desert to be had! Plus recovery from his near death experience).

This was a fun thread to read.

BunnytheSwordsman.4173:

Alright, it might be too soon for this, but this has got me thinking. I’ll keep it short.The Elder Dragons seem to be the source of all magic in Tyria. So, by killing them, we’re probably destroying magic itself. If that’s the case, either we’re going to see a lot less necromancers, elementalists, guardians, and mesmers in the future generations. Thoughts?

Other posible consequences to killing EDs would be great too.

If magic can’t exist without the elder dragons, and if we’re actually able to kill all of them, make way for your new charr overlords. Because without the great equalizer that is magic, there would be no stopping the vastly technologically superior charr if they decided to take over.

Well, if that’s the case, I openly welcome the return of Charr Hide armor (the sole reason I can’t play Charr is because my Warrior wore Elite Charr Hide, in GW1). xD

darkace.8925:

BunnytheSwordsman.4173:

Alright, it might be too soon for this, but this has got me thinking. I’ll keep it short.The Elder Dragons seem to be the source of all magic in Tyria. So, by killing them, we’re probably destroying magic itself. If that’s the case, either we’re going to see a lot less necromancers, elementalists, guardians, and mesmers in the future generations. Thoughts?

Other posible consequences to killing EDs would be great too.

If magic can’t exist without the elder dragons, and if we’re actually able to kill all of them, make way for your new charr overlords. Because without the great equalizer that is magic, there would be no stopping the vastly technologically superior charr if they decided to take over.

Youd probably see other races industrialise pretty quickly to compensate for the loss of magic. After all, one of the key drives that made the charr a more mechanically advance society than the others was the charr’s dislike og magic. It would give the charr an edge to start with though for sure. The charr also favor more military focused technology to the other races.

Lutinz.6915:

Youd probably see other races industrialise pretty quickly to compensate for the loss of magic. After all, one of the key drives that made the charr a more mechanically advance society than the others was the charr’s dislike og magic. It would give the charr an edge to start with though for sure. The charr also favor more military focused technology to the other races.

If the humans haven’t industrialized at this point, especially after their gods abandoned them, I doubt they every will. And I doubt the norn would ever congregate in sufficient numbers to make industrialization possible. The sylvari might, but only if they could find an environment-friendly way of mass producing arms and vehicles of war.

The asura would certainly find a way, but the initial loss of magic would be the equivalent of us losing electricity. It would take them a while to adapt. And all those defense golems protecting their interests would be inoperable after the initial loss of magic, making them prime targets for the charr. So in their own twisted way, in trying to unlock the secrets of the dragons’ magic the Inquest are actually taking steps to ensure the charr don’t enslave or destroy everyone else.

then the question is:
is all tecknolegy not spread by the pact now so the hight of the charr is allready in asura, norn, human and sylvari hands if they wanted to use it and also the other way around

im gessing that if the elder dragons realy keeps magc in place in some way by removing them you will find a overflow of magic, from what i can think off by that is that eighter natur finds a way to dispatch it(eighter completly or enough to hold it at a constant level) or the world will be destroyed by wild magic going on a rampage

The Norn and Sylvari are heavily tied to magic. It would be very difficult to predict what would happen to them if magic was removed. Would the Sylvari still be linked to the Dream? Would they be able to function at all? Its hard to tell.

Would the Norn still be able to take beast form and commune with the spirits? Probably not. They would either have to adapt or die out. The norn are obsessed with making themselves legends. Its one of the reasons they have among the best blacksmiths in Tyria.

For the humans, they are actually pretty advanced in engineering. In civil engineering they are arguably better than the charr. Just look at the stuff humans have built and the scale. Human agriculture also seems more developed than the charr. Humans have quite a elaborate irrigation system which also supplys water to Divinity’s Reach through pumping stations. I suspect one of the driving reasons humans havent industrialised is that they dont have the same motivation as the charr.

I dont think it would be so simple.

Lutinz.6915:

The Norn and Sylvari are heavily tied to magic. It would be very difficult to predict what would happen to them if magic was removed. Would the Sylvari still be linked to the Dream? Would they be able to function at all? Its hard to tell.

Interesting point. It’s entirely possible that without magic the Pale Tree would wither and the sylvari would become vegetables (bad pun intended).

Lutinz.6915:

For the humans, they are actually pretty advanced in engineering. In civil engineering they are arguably better than the charr. Just look at the stuff humans have built and the scale. Human agriculture also seems more developed than the charr. Humans have quite a elaborate irrigation system which also supplys water to Divinity’s Reach through pumping stations.

It’s going to take some mighty powerful hoses to stop the advance of twenty foot tall tanks.

darkace.8925:

Lutinz.6915:

The Norn and Sylvari are heavily tied to magic. It would be very difficult to predict what would happen to them if magic was removed. Would the Sylvari still be linked to the Dream? Would they be able to function at all? Its hard to tell.

Interesting point. It’s entirely possible that without magic the Pale Tree would wither and the sylvari would become vegetables (bad pun intended).

Lutinz.6915:

For the humans, they are actually pretty advanced in engineering. In civil engineering they are arguably better than the charr. Just look at the stuff humans have built and the scale. Human agriculture also seems more developed than the charr. Humans have quite a elaborate irrigation system which also supplys water to Divinity’s Reach through pumping stations.

It’s going to take some mighty powerful hoses to stop the advance of twenty foot tall tanks.

I think you overestimate how much of a game changer the lose of magic would be for humans fighting the charr. They have been fighting that stuff for quite some time now. Till recently Ebonhawke was under a 200 year seige by the charr. The charr ended up sending new warmachines there to test them against Ebonhawke’s walls.

Humans havent fought effectively against the charr just thanks to magic. Humans are very good at adapting and countering enemy strengths. I suspect you would find the other races capable at adapting strategy to counter the charr’s technological advantage, particularly in their own territory. I rockslide can bury a tank convoy. Poor terrain can block its passage. Broken supply lines can render its useless and mines, sabotage and traps can destroy them without the tanks ever getting a shot off.

Theres also the issue of logistics, repairs and having sufficant troop numbers to hold widespread conquests. And of course this requires the Legions to remain allied which isnt certian, particularly if one Legion starts to show sign’s of becoming more powerful than the other two.

Jeff Grubb said himslef one of the biggest threats to the charr are the charr themselves.

Perhaps with the loss of magic the Dredge would become powerful.

I always assumed that magic either existed or that it came from the mists itself. My theory is that the dragons were exposed to large amounts of magic and mutated from what they were to what they are now.

So if the dragons are siphoning off magic from the world the only bad thing to happen would be that more creatures would mutate and that it would be in the best interests for the 5(or more) races to keep working together.

The only consequence I can see from killing The Elder Dragons is this: More magic, possibly everyone in Tyria can use it to some degree after a while.

I believe it was mentioned somewhere that sapient life is the embodiment of magic, but I can’t state a source, so don’t quote me expecting credibility.

The thing that you are referencing is Oola’s Skill Challenge in Metrica Province. I think her words are closer to “We are the embodiment of magic” than sapient life, but it’s pretty close and can be read that way.

A lot of you don’t know Guild Wars 1 lore at all which tells you. I’m just going to quote the wiki here because I’m to lazy to type it. It explains everything.

“Despite the serpents’ retreat, the gods never halted their work creating the world, and with the benevolence of indulgent parents, they decided to create magic. It was to be a gift to all the intelligent creatures—meant to ease a life of toil and make survival a less arduous task. When they had finished creating their gift, they presented it to the humans and the Charr, the Tengu and the dwarves, the minotaurs and the imps, and all the races of the land.

But the gods had not counted upon one thing—greed.

Wars broke out immediately as the magical races fought for dominance. So much destruction was wrought that humans found themselves at the edge of extinction. When all seemed lost, it was King Doric, the leader of the united human tribes himself, who made the long trek to Arah, the city of the gods, on the Orrian peninsula. He gained an audience with the creators and begged them to help, to stop the wars and bring peace to the land once again.

The gods heard his pleas, and they intervened.

The forging of the world was complete. As their final act, the gods gathered back their gift of magic from all the races and trapped it inside a tall stone. They smashed the stone into five parts—four equal but opposing stones of magic, and one keystone. Without the keystone, the other four couldn’t be reassembled.

Each of the first four stones was the embodiment of a specific school of magic: preservation, destruction, aggression, and denial. Magic would still exist in the world, but the devastating power of all four types together would never again be at the command of one single creature. Those who accepted the gift would have to cooperate if they intended to use it to its fullest.

The gods told King Doric that since he had asked for peace, he and his descendants must carry the burden of protecting the stones. As an additional precaution, they used a drop of King Doric’s blood to seal each of the stones.

Then the stones were dropped, one by one, into the volcano off the southern shore of the Kingdom of Kryta, and the gods left this world forever, confident that they had balanced out their gift and circumvented greed."

That’s explains why they were called the Bloodstones and everything and why the Gods left the world. They never came back but still listened to the people until we hit GW2 lore where even contact with the Gods was gone.

Maybe the dragons are keeping the magic in check?

Maybe, without the Elder Dragons consuming magic, the magic will just increase and Increase and INCREASE until it reaches dangerous levels?

Xter.6271:

A lot of you don’t know Guild Wars 1 lore at all which tells you. I’m just going to quote the wiki here because I’m to lazy to type it. It explains everything.

“Despite the serpents’ retreat, the gods never halted their work creating the world, and with the benevolence of indulgent parents, they decided to create magic. It was to be a gift to all the intelligent creatures—meant to ease a life of toil and make survival a less arduous task. When they had finished creating their gift, they presented it to the humans and the Charr, the Tengu and the dwarves, the minotaurs and the imps, and all the races of the land.

But the gods had not counted upon one thing—greed.

Wars broke out immediately as the magical races fought for dominance. So much destruction was wrought that humans found themselves at the edge of extinction. When all seemed lost, it was King Doric, the leader of the united human tribes himself, who made the long trek to Arah, the city of the gods, on the Orrian peninsula. He gained an audience with the creators and begged them to help, to stop the wars and bring peace to the land once again.

The gods heard his pleas, and they intervened.

The forging of the world was complete. As their final act, the gods gathered back their gift of magic from all the races and trapped it inside a tall stone. They smashed the stone into five parts—four equal but opposing stones of magic, and one keystone. Without the keystone, the other four couldn’t be reassembled.

Each of the first four stones was the embodiment of a specific school of magic: preservation, destruction, aggression, and denial. Magic would still exist in the world, but the devastating power of all four types together would never again be at the command of one single creature. Those who accepted the gift would have to cooperate if they intended to use it to its fullest.

The gods told King Doric that since he had asked for peace, he and his descendants must carry the burden of protecting the stones. As an additional precaution, they used a drop of King Doric’s blood to seal each of the stones.

Then the stones were dropped, one by one, into the volcano off the southern shore of the Kingdom of Kryta, and the gods left this world forever, confident that they had balanced out their gift and circumvented greed."

That’s explains why they were called the Bloodstones and everything and why the Gods left the world. They never came back but still listened to the people until we hit GW2 lore where even contact with the Gods was gone.

It should be noted that this version of history was written by humans and contains old lore which has since been revealed to be incorrect by newer lore. The gods did not create the magic, nor did they create the bloodstones. They simply divided and modified the original Bloodstone left behind by the Seers.

Xter.6271:

A lot of you don’t know Guild Wars 1 lore at all which tells you. I’m just going to quote the wiki here because I’m to lazy to type it. It explains everything.

-snip wiki quoting-

That’s explains why they were called the Bloodstones and everything and why the Gods left the world. They never came back but still listened to the people until we hit GW2 lore where even contact with the Gods was gone.

You apparently don’t know Guild Wars 2 lore at all, because I know both, and if you knew the later you’d know that the History of Tyria – what you quoted – has been made “false” by new lore. Call if retcon if you want, though Anet bypasses this claim by the fact that the History of Tyria was written in-universe and by an Orrian human. Thus, it is the human’s history of it.

And almost the entire thing has been proven false, with half of it proven lacking/false during Nightfall alone. I suggest you go read through the dialogue here, here, and here – for starters.

Xter.6271:

A lot of you don’t know Guild Wars 1 lore at all which tells you. I’m just going to quote the wiki here because I’m to lazy to type it. It explains everything.

He says to the GW2 lore forum…

IDK who knows anything about the lore then, lol.

well besides primordius i cant imagine anything really bad happening from the other dragons dying

Why would Primordus’ death be any different than the other Elder Dragons’ deaths?