Guild Wars 2

Hello GW2 community! This is my first post ever on the forum, so I figured I’d address a question I’ve never really had an answer for.

Currency! How did the world of GW moved, in the span of 250 years, from gold/platinum based exchange (GW) to the current C/S/G system? I am fairly knowledgeable of the lore from both games, but if there is any explanation for this change, I have definitely missed it. I understand it is probably for a practical reason (crafting and TP most likely), but could there also be a way to explain how, now, a platinum ingot is only worth a few silvers?

I’ve thought about a theory where darksteel was discovered through some sort of industrial cooperation/accident by the Charr and Asura, and it was found that its properties made it a stronger metal than steel for weapons. As the Human’s grip on Tyria waned, other races, especially the warlike ones (Charr and Norn) began to influence deeply the economy. Could the Charr and Norn (culturally more likely to trade goods than to adopt a Human banking, currency based system), seeing that platinum was too valuable and rare as a component of darksteel and war industry, pressure the world around them to abandon platinum as a currency? That way, the only natural choice, with gold being the main currency, was to get silver and copper in the lot.

Now, I am not very well versed in economics and I understand there are some discrepancies in-game (silver ore could theoretically be worth more than gold or plat on TP), but let me know what you think of this theory, if there is an official lore explanation, or what is your own opinion.

Merci!

Falkatore.3125:

but could there also be a way to explain how, now, a platinum ingot is only worth a few silvers?

I’m know about nothing regarding economics, especially when said economics is only a handwaved gameplay mechanic, but I do know it can’t be approached in this manner. For instance, a gold ingot? Worth less than two silvers on the TP, and a whopping six coppers from most merchants. You could say getting the official marks when it’s minted somehow makes the material a couple thousand times more valuable, but that makes it really easy for counterfeiters to exploit.

The way I see it, anyway, is that platinum hasn’t gone out of currency (there are a couple places where it’s mentioned in the story- pirates try to ransom Demmi for a hundred platinum, and I think Zojja bets some on your success for asura characters) but is just out of reach of your vagrant adventurers. In GW1, after all, it’s worth a hundred gold; only the richest GW2 characters are going to be carrying around more than four or five platinum worth. Still, though, I don’t have a whole lot to back it up, or to say why so much deflation has occurred. It’s just how I make sense of things.

Thanks, makes sense indeed, but how could all the races agree on who has the authority to mint? I also believe that, with Cantha silent and thus, Zunlai’s bankers cut off from their homeland, there was no way economy could not evolve from this (or any event that happened in that span, for that matter) . It’s just that I felt the Devs took a lot of care in bridging between GW and GW2 lore-wise (how Krytan became the main language or The Movement of the World for instance) and had always wondered if I just missed something, or if it was not explained, if even possible/viable to do so.

This is one of those times where game play convenience trumps the richness of lore. It’s very like the hand-waved “everyone learned to speak New Krytan and just gave up on their old languages because it was easier to get along that way.”

We talked about this rather early on in a topic that I brought up, and one good explanation we found is as follows.

WarriorOfAsgard.3705:

I figured that’s what you meant. Seems like a reasonable explanation, though it could also be that it was simply phased out and replaced with a newer, and possibly better alternative monetary system that we see today. I suspect the ex-pirates of Lion’s Arch may have had a major part to play considering the pirates and corsairs on Cantha and Elona each carried gold, silver, and copper coins, as did the Zaishen Order in exchange for the daily quests.

The theory is that the pirates and Zaishen took over Lion’s Arch for the most part after the Rise of Zhaitan, which lead to a simultaneous cut off from both Kamadan and Kaineng, which were the two other major trade capitals for Humanity. Because of this, as the new Lion’s Arch started becoming a trading hub for all races and nations, it would make sense that the natural currency of both the Zaishen and Pirates (which were a system of copper, silver, and gold coins) would slowly subvert all others eventually. Having Lion’s Arch backing the currency likely gave worth to the currency as they became more and more prominent (though in all reality, the destruction of Lion’s Arch would likely have done a lot to subvert the value of said currency).

Falkatore.3125:

Currency! How did the world of GW moved, in the span of 250 years, from gold/platinum based exchange (GW) to the current C/S/G system?

Short answer is, they didn’t move.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Copper_Crimson_Skull_Coin
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Silver_Crimson_Skull_Coin
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gold_Crimson_Skull_Coin

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Copper_Shilling
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Silver_Bullion_Coin
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gold_Doubloon

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Copper_Zaishen_Coin
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Silver_Zaishen_Coin
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gold_Zaishen_Coin

It’s just that, mechanically, we skipped the copper and silver in GW1.

And for platinum in GW2:

Here’s one reference to platinum coins

Which means that, mechanically, we skip platinum coins. Always kind of bugged me that we have 1,000 gold instead of 1 platinum, though.

As for ignots being cheaper than the coins, two things:

First off, coins have an arbitrary value assigned by the collective society. Coins hardly ever have the assigned value that is equal to their weight in material – pennies for the US economy, for example, have a lower monetary value than the actual materials required to make them (mind, this is insignificant on a one-penny basis, being at something like a 0.001% more expensive to make a penny than the penny’s value, per penny, IIRC). Usually, though, it’s the opposite (take dollar bills, for example) – where the coin is assigned more value than its weight in material – which would be the case with these ingots (and why forgery is a bad thing, mkay – but easy to afford if you can manage duplicating the printing process).

Second off… mechanics. In old LA, there were merchants bartering for a “centaur spearhead” and the price was 20 gold. I’d presume that the value players trade thing is far lower than what ArenaNet would deem the in-lore monetary price – that, or there’s something REALLY special about that old centaur spearhead. (I’d also argue the OPPOSITE for GW1 currency, as Prophecies had a line about a head of lettuce costing… 7 gold, I think it was?).

The shift of gold from being the lowest coin to being the highest one could be explained by deflation (money becoming worth more/goods becoming cheaper).

The discrepancy between ingots and coins probably can’t be explained.
Fiat currency (coins are worth what they say they’re worth rather than what the material they’re made of is worth) just doesn’t seem likely in this setting. It would require all 6 major political entities (5 races and Lion’s Arch) in Tyria to either accept using coins minted by only one of the six (or possibly an outside source) or to agree on minting only a certain amount each.

It could even be that the platinum ingots in GW1 were not literal blocks of platinum like the ones we use for crafting in GW2.

For a real life example look at the UK’s currency, which is still officially called pounds stirling long after it ceased to have anything to do with stirling silver.

Originally of course that term refered to literal bars or stacks of silver weighing 1 pound. Then it shifted to coins which on their own were worth much less but which were backed up by pounds of silver kept in the bank (because even back in ye olde days when £1 was a lot of money you wouldn’t want to actually lug it around just to buy things). Then it became coins that were worth the equivalent of 1 pound of silver even if the bank didn’t have the actual metal to back it up. These days the price isn’t even related to stirling silver (or any other single commodity, which is probably good because some seriously messed up politics were involved in the British Empire keeping the price of silver high to protect their currency) and most of the currency doesn’t even exist in physical form – it’s just electronic. But it still retains the name.

It could be the same with GW1 platinum. Considering we never saw the ingots (correct me if I’m wrong here) and weren’t told much about the inner workings of the economy they could easily be rectangular coins that were simply called platinum ingots.

Maybe they were backed up by actual platinum. Maybe it was all in the Xunlai vault in Cantha and with the continents cut off from each other that system of banking fell apart and without the artifically inflated demand platinum was relegated to just a crafting material (it actually is a very strong and durable metal with a lot of real-life uses) and lost it’s value.

But as I said we were never told how the currency worked in that much detail.

If I recall correctly, in the book Ghosts of Ascalon there was an actual reference to ingots of platinum in the treasures he looted from the vault, but it has been a long time, and that doesn’t necessarily mean that it was the minted currency of platinum and not just a material. But he did truly seem to regret dropping it to climb up out of the hole.

I just re-read the GoA section and the sack Dougal grabbed had platinum coins. There was no mention of ‘ingots’ in that vault at all.

Every instance of the world platinum I could find:

“The shelves on both sides were filled with terra-cotta jars, each filled to overflowing with gold coins and jewelry. At the base of the shelves were piles of ornate swords and armor salvaged by King Adelbern from the wreckage above and tucked away, much like an elderly woman might hide silver pieces throughout the house in case of burglars. Rough sacks of gold and platinum were tucked into every nook and cranny.” page 356

“He handled the blade gingerly, as its construction seemed to threaten to poke him at every moment. He looked around at the scattered treasure and wondered if he should risk taking more. Almorra, after all, had promised him and the others any additional treasure they found. But anything would have to be hauled back up the pit and out of the city. In the end, he quickly chose two small sacks of gems-emeralds and diamonds-and a good-sized satchel of platinum coins stamped with the seal of the Royal House of Kryta.” page 358

“I have it! And gems and platinum as well!” he shouted upward. […] page 359

The GW1 currency wasn’t in ignots, but coins. The icon used in GW1 had more of a dollar bill shape than ingot shape, too.

Interesting. I always saw it as an ingot, but I never looked at it that closely. Thanks for looking it up for me. I was away from my books at the time.

@Etienne
It may not be a fiat currency, but it could still be a representative currency. I.e. A gold is not literal gold but gold/silver/copper is the Tyrian equivalent of units $100/10/1. It may be chocolate wrapped in gold foil for all we know.

And unlike fiat currency it can still be backed by a roomful of gold ingots somewhere in the capital cities. Its confusing that the currency shares the same name as the assets that back it, but RL is has just as many idiosyncrasies too.

In that way, it won’t be difficult for the various races to agree on its value: a gold ingot will be the same regardless of human, asura, etc. And the Sylvari, being the youngest race, and presumably not having a long history of commerce, is just “going with the flow”.

As to how we got to this stage, who knows. Maybe it was borne of necessity. Maybe it’s part of the peace negotiations between the races.

I like to think Currency was centralized with the Reformation of Lion’s Arch as an independent City-State from Kryta. As the major multi-racial organizations, like BLTC and the Consortium took up residence there, their influence on the economy eventually reached all the major cities, with Copper, Silver, and Gold coins reaching a semi-standardized value.

There’s an even bigger reason why currency in Tyria was centralized with LA’s rebuilding – Hao Luen the First, a former member of the Xunlai Guild, established the Arch Exchange, focused in rebuilt LA, which is the banking system seen in every racial city in GW2.

That is an extremely big reason…