Guild Wars 2

This is just mere theorycrafting. It’s called the Deep Sea Dragon because it’s lurking in the deep sea.

And those are just concept arts.

But anything can happen.

a: Why do so many people want to go back to Cantha. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
b: In lore it is good to speculate, but please speculate based on atleast some things that are facts. Now your just speculating on speculations, while ignoring other speculations.

The DSD is somewhere in the endless ocean. It is unknown where.

mercury ranique.2170:

a: Why do so many people want to go back to Cantha. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

In most games, the Eastern-contet/continent is like an anime with gigantic swords and talking pandas.

But not in GW. The landscape and architecture was beautiful, the continent had variety and was an awesome place with many many things to do. The Canthan expansion had the most challenging contents for PvE and many many new ones for PvP, so everyone liked it

Gandarel.5091:

mercury ranique.2170:

a: Why do so many people want to go back to Cantha. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

In most games, the Eastern-contet/continent is like an anime with gigantic swords and talking pandas.

But not in GW. The landscape and architecture was beautiful, the continent had variety and was an awesome place with many many things to do. The Canthan expansion had the most challenging contents for PvE and many many new ones for PvP, so everyone liked it

City a maze, artwork in the city was crapy (except maybe the palace). The only parts I liked where the starter island, the palace, Pongmei Valley and Mount Qinkai. The sea and forest are ok looking but not asian themed and had nothing to do with the campaign imo. It felt to me as if halfway the story they changed their mind and decide, nope we dont want an asian themed campaign lets go gothic vs pirates.

PvE content was a laugh in factions, it is by far the most easy campaign.
The PvP content was revolutionary butr has nothing to do with the lore and I dont expect a big PvP revolution like that in GW2 just cause they are going to cantha

Personally I wouldnt mind if we went there, but I neither expect it to happen or would shred a tear if we don’t.

Some people are allready assuming for certai nthat the next campaign will be either in elona or in Cantha and that GW2 will follow the same evolution as GW1. It’s a totally different game and I would be surprised if we ever go to Cantha.

Absolutely 100% nothing indicates nor implies that the DSD is in the Jade Sea. In fact, name of “the Deep” aside (btw, the deep was NOT that deep underwater/ground, and half of it was underground, not underwater), we’re told that the deep sea dragon – fan named of course, awoke in the depths of the deepest sea. We’re then told that the krait lived in the deepest parts of the Unending Ocean which, by the way, is also known as the Clashing Seas.

Along with this, if the Deep Sea Dragon was in the Jade Sea, this would mean that Cantha was fully/mostly annihilated by the DSD. Why? Because as you said, dragons send their influence/minions to places they are not at. However, it’s an ever-expanding grasp. They don’t do hopscotch on the globe of Tyria, where they take one plot of land, skip a bit, then take another plot of land. And what’s between the Unending Ocean and the Jade Sea? Kaineng City. If the DSD was in the Jade Sea, but its influence reached til the depths of the Unending Ocean, that would mean everything inbetween has fallen to its domain – and that means Cantha is DSD territory no different than the shores of Orr was Zhaitan’s territory.

Furthermore, that concept art is merely conceptual art – it holds no lore to it, but is instead made by the artists to give ideas for the lore. Same thing with the kodan’s original concept art. That concept is just art made to depict all six original members of Destiny’s Edge. Nothing more.

Lastly, the only powerful dragon talked about residing in the Jade Sea, which was done in GW1, is Kuunavang.

@mercury: If I wasn’t short on time, I’d explain how you’re rather wrong on multiple points. So I’ll respond to you later.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

@mercury: If I wasn’t short on time, I’d explain how you’re rather wrong on multiple points. So I’ll respond to you later.

Spare the effort. I only expressed in more abstract way what you where saying, and gave my personal opinion on factions.

I know we clash heads sometimes, but what annoy’s me sometimes bout you is the ’ I’m right and your wrong’ way of stating things.

Try to approach things more with respect for the other persons opinion and less as a ‘schoolmaster’

Still saying this with the highest respect of your knowledge of lore and details. Where I have to spit through old files and books you often knows it out of your head.

mercury ranique.2170:

Gandarel.5091:

mercury ranique.2170:

a: Why do so many people want to go back to Cantha. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

In most games, the Eastern-contet/continent is like an anime with gigantic swords and talking pandas.

But not in GW. The landscape and architecture was beautiful, the continent had variety and was an awesome place with many many things to do. The Canthan expansion had the most challenging contents for PvE and many many new ones for PvP, so everyone liked it

City a maze, artwork in the city was crapy (except maybe the palace). The only parts I liked where the starter island, the palace, Pongmei Valley and Mount Qinkai. The sea and forest are ok looking but not asian themed and had nothing to do with the campaign imo. It felt to me as if halfway the story they changed their mind and decide, nope we dont want an asian themed campaign lets go gothic vs pirates.

PvE content was a laugh in factions, it is by far the most easy campaign.
The PvP content was revolutionary butr has nothing to do with the lore and I dont expect a big PvP revolution like that in GW2 just cause they are going to cantha

Personally I wouldnt mind if we went there, but I neither expect it to happen or would shred a tear if we don’t.

Some people are allready assuming for certai nthat the next campaign will be either in elona or in Cantha and that GW2 will follow the same evolution as GW1. It’s a totally different game and I would be surprised if we ever go to Cantha.

I know they wouldn’t make the same additions with a Canthan expansion. I’m just saying we have great memories about Cantha, that’s why many of us wants to go back

mercury ranique.2170:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

@mercury: If I wasn’t short on time, I’d explain how you’re rather wrong on multiple points. So I’ll respond to you later.

Spare the effort. I only expressed in more abstract way what you where saying, and gave my personal opinion on factions.

I know we clash heads sometimes, but what annoy’s me sometimes bout you is the ’ I’m right and your wrong’ way of stating things.

It’s not “I’m right and you’re wrong” in what I say, but rather “you’re stating things as fact when they are, in fact, just opinion.”

What I was referring to, primarily, would be:

artwork in the city was crapy

[…]

he sea and forest are ok looking but not asian themed and had nothing to do with the campaign imo

[…]

PvE content was a laugh in factions, it is by far the most easy campaign.

Though I’ll admit that at first I thought your comment of “It felt to me as if halfway the story they changed their mind and decide, nope we dont want an asian themed campaign lets go gothic vs pirates.” was worded differently (in that I didn’t see “it felt to me as if”) – I blame having just woken up for that.

And I’d just like to note that the Kurzicks do have asian themes to them. Particularly in their clothing – that’s full on samurai and geisha inspired.

You’re free to your opinion – you just have the constant issue of stating your opinion as if they were facts (though in the above post, you do better than usual, but you still put opinion before denoting what you were going to say is opinion – primarily at the beginning, though the city is indeed a maze :P). Something that WP does as well, and the irony is that you call him out on that all the time, and even do what you call him out on in the process (you present your opinions of WP as facts while stating “WP presents his opinions on lore as facts”).

In a similar fashion: In my opinion, Factions wasn’t the easiest in PvE standards of the campaigns (Prophecies holds that title), but rather was simply the most repetative of them, as every mission “bonus” and enemy strategy was the same: promoting speed clearing versus armies upon armies of constantly hitting PBAoE armies (a silly idea when introducing a glass cannon profession).

mercury ranique.2170:

Still saying this with the highest respect of your knowledge of lore and details. Where I have to spit through old files and books you often knows it out of your head.

Often I do, often I don’t. Often times I double check just to make sure. Though lately I’ve been forced to refer only to my own memory thanks to GW2W’s lacking (correct) documentation of lore.

In Prophecies I would bum rush into things Prince Rurik style and made it through the whole NM campaign that way. I attempted to do this with my first Assassin in Factions and got my butt handed to me over and over again. Factions taught me the importance of pulling more than any other campaign, I would definitely say that it is much harder than Prophecies, although I will give it to you that it is definitely the fastest. As for luxons and Kurzicks, definitely asian themed, they just have other styles in the background, much like we’ve been fighting about the Krytans in another topic. No human ethnicity is an exact copy of 1 specific ethnicity in the real world. They have many differing inspirations.

Hey Konig,

I don’t want to write always in 100% correct english and I hate to always have to say imo or stuff like that in sentences. So please forgive me if things sound as a fact. Mostly when I state a fact (or what I believe is a fact) I put it in a separate block of text.

But my start of the post was reacting to a previous post that I quoted and ended with:

‘so everyone liked it’

I reacted to that person with ‘City a maze, artwork in the city was crapy’ So far as much as that person stated an opinion as afact, so did I. I leveled with the guy, meaning I tried to communicate on his level and in his style to start with.

In the sentence after I immediatly made clear I was stating my own opinion:

‘The only parts I liked where …..’ (all in the same block of text).
In that block of text I think it was very clear that It was my opinion and I only started with an opinion as a fact cause the quote ended that way

Then the next block:
‘PvE content was a laugh in factions, it is by far the most easy campaign.
The PvP content was revolutionary butr has nothing to do with the lore and I dont expect a big PvP revolution like that in GW2 just cause they are going to cantha’

Ok after ending the last block with a sentence that started with ‘It felt to me’ I forgot to say that the first sentence of that block was an opinion too.

The other two lines in that block are fact imo.

The third block starts with the term ‘Personally’

The last starts with an observation, and ends with an opinion (formulated with the term ‘I would be surprised’)

So in the whole text where two sentences that where not clear in being an opinion. in one sutation I think it was clear why (cause I reacted to a quote that ended the same way) and in one: well it was right after a sentence that was an opinion but if you want to win that point mkkkkk then :P

As for the quality of the GW2W. Well that is a totally different subject on wich I agree. This isn’t only for the quality of lore, but also for many many other things. I could make a list of a few dozen things I would do differently. But my knowledge of wiki code is bad and I dont have an interest in learning. So when I can I edit as an IP but I see the gw2w as a lesser knowledgebase as the gw1w

Not asking you to write that it’s your opinion in each sentence. Just that, usually, such opinions begin with denoting such, not denoting opinion, declaring opinion, then denoting opinion – as that gives the false implication (quoting or not) that the beginning is fact that you then divulge into opinion. Though as I said, I misread the last bit of the first paragraph, which made me think you were stating fact with how the Factions plot “felt like” it went and ignored Factions’ lore to do pirates vs. goths (which is both untrue (nor do I see how you began feeling like that since the Luxons v. Kurzicks was always part of lore, even with Shiro’s history, even if not highlighted until midway through the primary storyline) as well as unreasonable as the Luxons and Kurzicks are more than just “pirates” and “goths” – far far more). It was mainly that misreading of over-poorly-generalization that got to me.

And the paragraph with no denotion of personal opinion.

mercury ranique.2170:

The other two lines in that block are fact imo.

That PvP has nothing to do with lore (wrong) and that Anet won’t go to Cantha for the sake of adding PvP content (speculative to the nth degree)? I wouldn’t call either fact.

Alliance Battles and the Battle Isles were chocked full of lore. Hell, in all of PvP, Factions added the most lore to PvP. Far more than Nightfall, let alone Eye of the North.

And given that there’s lore background, and that Anet loves tying lore into their game – both on PvE and PvP levels – for why they add certain things, I can see them looking at Canthan lore, seeing something that would work great for GW2 PvP from that, but not be able to implement that “something” without Cantha. Unlikely – extremely so – but still possible.

So no, if that’s what you were talking about, not fact.

But I digress.

mercury ranique.2170:

So when I can I edit as an IP but I see the gw2w as a lesser knowledgebase as the gw1w

The issue is that GWW editors want as little GW2 lore as reasonable on that wiki. For whatever reason they want to give. So while GW2W is a “lesser knowledgebase” than GWW (which I concur with), GWW lacks GW2W and will tell readers that the Six Gods made the bloodstones, not the Seers – and it’s not wrong, it’s just telling lore from a GW1-only viewpoint… most of the time.

Given that underwater combat isn’t good enough to entirely support a major expansion, I think it is likely that a lot of the DSD’s minions will be encountered on land. None of the aquatic races seem to live in air pockets that could allow land combat in the oceans. Underwater inquest bases could support dungeons but not whole zones. I think it is therefore reasonable to speculate where the dragon minions would come ashore and need fighting.

Stooperdale.3560:

Given that underwater combat isn’t good enough to entirely support a major expansion, I think it is likely that a lot of the DSD’s minions will be encountered on land. None of the aquatic races seem to live in air pockets that could allow land combat in the oceans. Underwater inquest bases could support dungeons but not whole zones. I think it is therefore reasonable to speculate where the dragon minions would come ashore and need fighting.

My guess is that the expansion featuring the DSD would be the one actually making underwater combat great as it should feature a huge lot of water. If they’re doing a whole expansion about the most powerful underwater opponent, it makes sense that they use many of their resources to augment the underwater experience to make it more enjoyable (I actually enjoy it but I miss having all my skills there).

That or they could do it during the campaign introducting Largos as a playable race (if both campaigns aren’t even the same which would be logical as the first is the one causing trouble to the seconds and making them and other creatures show in the surface world) with their underwater capitol and lore.

Aditionally, I think it’s very possible that there are underwater locations where you can walk anyway so it shouldn’t be that big of a problem, this are my 2 reasons for thinking that:

- Largos have humanoid bodies and more importantly humanoid legs (Quaggan have walking legs too). The race haven’t been sightened by anyone in the known territory until recently, and if the races have been underwater so much time that there aren’t historical records of them and only the DSD made them go to the surface, they wouldn’t have evolved to have legs (in Largos case they look like very humanoid legs, and if they had membranes why hinder their swimming with boots? Given how much time they spend underwater they would be using some kind of leg armor that doesn’t cover feet membranes).

- Largos have shown the ability to forge metal. At least their armor isn’t seen anywhere else and it does look like metal. Unlike they’ve mastered some method to make wet forges work, they should have some areas where they could put a forge to melt and mold metal.

So I think that under all that water there might be somehow zones “inside bubbles” (like Jar Jar city SW episode 1) that allows them to walk around even if they’re perfectly fit for swimming.

Konig, I wouldkindly ask to stop making half quotes to prove you are right. Either you quote me fully or not.

‘The PvP content was revolutionary butr has nothing to do with the lore and I dont expect a big PvP revolution like that in GW2 just cause they are going to cantha’

I have never said that PvP has nothing to do with lore. I said that I agree with the person I was reacting to that the pvp-content was revolutionary in. The subject here was revolutionary PvP content. And I was stating that has nothing to do with lore. That is something totally different.

Making half and edited notes in a discussion on a public forum is one of the worse and meanest things to do. You can choose, by being treated from no one as a nobody that is on my ignore list or by appoligising for this very rude error you made. You have been putting words in my mouth and twisting and turning them so they look like you can provew a point. There is nothing in the world that can make me more angry and upset.

I do hope you did this by error and not deliberatly.

Stooperdale.3560:

Given that underwater combat isn’t good enough to entirely support a major expansion, I think it is likely that a lot of the DSD’s minions will be encountered on land. None of the aquatic races seem to live in air pockets that could allow land combat in the oceans. Underwater inquest bases could support dungeons but not whole zones. I think it is therefore reasonable to speculate where the dragon minions would come ashore and need fighting.

And it couldn’t be that they work on making underwater combat better with such an expansion.

Because lets face it, it makes no sense for the DSD to come up on land Tequatl style just to be killed by us. We have to go to it.

mercury ranique.2170:

Konig, I wouldkindly ask to stop making half quotes to prove you are right. Either you quote me fully or not.

‘The PvP content was revolutionary butr has nothing to do with the lore and I dont expect a big PvP revolution like that in GW2 just cause they are going to cantha’

I have never said that PvP has nothing to do with lore. I said that I agree with the person I was reacting to that the pvp-content was revolutionary in. The subject here was revolutionary PvP content. And I was stating that has nothing to do with lore. That is something totally different.

Making half and edited notes in a discussion on a public forum is one of the worse and meanest things to do. You can choose, by being treated from no one as a nobody that is on my ignore list or by appoligising for this very rude error you made. You have been putting words in my mouth and twisting and turning them so they look like you can provew a point. There is nothing in the world that can make me more angry and upset.

I do hope you did this by error and not deliberatly.

I don’t see where it makes a difference when I respond to the whole of a post or the whole of a comment that I’m directly responding to, as I’m still responding and referring to the whole of the post(s) or point(s) brought up.

Your wording was tricky then, if not incorrectly stated, if you didn’t mean what you said. Because what you said can be read the same as “the PvP content has nothing to do with lore, but it was revolutionary, and I don’t expect a big PvP revolution like that in GW2 just because they are going to Cantha.” – it’s literally the same thing, but different syntax. Whether you meant it or not, you did say that PvP content introduced with Factions was, while revolutionary, irrelevant to lore.

I see no reason to apologize for something not my own fault, and I held no intention of being rude (nor do I now). If anything, now you’re not only rude but overreacting over a case of miscommunication. I put no words in your mouth – you put them there yourself – nor did I twist any meaning in the words written out by your own hand. Perhaps you didn’t write them as you intend to, perhaps you don’t see how they mean something other than what you meant (in addition to or alternatively), but nonetheless I’m not at fault here – nor am I saying you are either, before you claim such.

I think there is a major difference. I think it was very clear what I ment in the first place but you are blinded by your desire to win an argument in wich you have digged into a position that I’m stating opinions for facts. By quoting me in a more ‘convinient’ way you are acting as if I said things I didn’t say and thats rude, offensive and very childish.

It’s very simple. If quoting, use the quote button’s (or if, like me, you have trouble with multiquoting) use copy paste. The way you did it is considered plain wrong and subjective.

Now you’re just being silly. Quoting in a move convenient way? How? EVERYONE can read your original post – so long as you don’t edit it. So it doesn’t matter if I’m quoting a sentence or the full, because people (myself, yourself, and everyone inbetween and not) can read the full post. There is no “more convenient” way of quoting, nor is there a means to twist words or put words in others’ mouths within the same thread (especially one as short as this one!) because, again, your original post is right there, still unedited.

mercury ranique.2170:

It’s very simple. If quoting, use the quote button’s (or if, like me, you have trouble with multiquoting) use copy paste. The way you did it is considered plain wrong and subjective.

That’s what I did. That’s what I always do. I use the quote button and I copy/paste. You can tell by the fact that the quote boxes have your full name.

And if I don’t do that, the only alteration I may make is fixing a misspelling. Nothing more. No grammatical punctuation changes, no syntax changes, nothing of that sort.

I never twisted your words. I never put words in your mouth. I never kittening quoted you in a way that was “more convenient.” I didn’t do anything you’re claiming to do and I sure as hell don’t give a kitten if I win an argument or not – hell, I LIKE being wrong. Wanna know why? Because it proves to people that I don’t know everything, and it annoys me when folks call me things like “loremaster” or whatever. And I sure as hell cannot see how you think I could have done something I very clearly didn’t do, since you’re not blaming miscommunication but rather blaming me for altering what you said in my response to you.

You may think you were clear, but the very fact we’re having this discussion is proof in of itself that you weren’t.

@Konig & Mercury:

Come on guys, it’s just stupid to even discuss about something like that at this point, everyone can take wrong impressions from someone else or someone can always express something in a way that may be read in a completly different manner than what he really intended or whatever and that’s ok, that happens, there is no need to prolongue it this far, and if it’s still unresolved I highly doubt it would at any point so the whole matter is pointless.

Now about the main topic:

I was checking the manifesto and found this “In the deepest waters of the sea, another dragon breathed, twisting the waters themselves into tentacled horrors that rose from every lake and river of the land.”

Yet we haven’t seen those tentacles in any lake that I can remember. It may refer to rivers and lakes close from his location, which could mean he is located in some part of the unending ocean that goes really deep (deep enough to show his influence in original Quaggan, Krait and Largos territory, making the waters “darker” as Sayidh says at one point) but is still located close to land mass as apparently there are lakes and rivers somewhere showing his corruption.

Looking at the current GW2 map, I think it could be west of the ring of fire island, where the waters are a bit darker in the map and is close enough to the west side of the tarnished coast/maguuma that holds plenty of water for his influence to expand.

As long as they don’t overkill it like WoW did with the Old Gods, I’m hoping for a nice Lovecraftian vibe to the DSD. I am wondering how it is actually going to look though, a dragon based in the regions of the deep sea/ocean.

Is it going to have wings, or are they going to be replaced with something more like fins? On that note, if the DSD had to leave the water, could it actually fly, or is it a solely water based dragon?

Bioluminescent, yea or nay?

And finally, are tentacles going to be part of the dragon’s design? Every time I think about that, all I can think of is sharktopus. That scares me, and not in a good way either.

Bioluminescent Sea Dragon…hmm I think it would be way freakier if it was dark and really hard to see, so “nay” :P

Or maybe it would have something like mantis-wings?

And lastly; maybe you are all asking the wrong question? It is not about where the Deep Sea Dragon is. It’s more about; how far would a quaggan/krait be ready to flee for it?
For if I remember right you do meet quaggan npcs (or hylek, dont remember) who speak of a danger in the sea. And you do know that the krait fled from “something” from the lore.

There’s a hylek in Kessex who mentions a dragon’s presence reaching so far north – said NPC talks solely about the new krait and quaggan presence in Viathan Lake. Then there’s a Quaggan skill challenge NPC who mentions that Elder Dragon influence pushed them out of their home, which was in the Unending Ocean.

We don’t know why the krait left, just that they did at the same time as the quaggans (we were originally told that the krait pushed the quaggans out, but the aforementioned quaggan says they fled into krait, not from) which was ~50 years prior to the game – the estimated time of the DSD’s rise.