Destiny's Edge vs Kralkatorrik
Kralkatorrik couldn’t simply squash DE because he had Glint harrying him, and Snaff inside his mind, keeping the elder dragon from concentrating. It wasn’t until his minions got past the ground defenses, which were stretched too thin due to Logan going to save Queen Jennah, and killed Snaff that Kralkatorrik could turn his full attention to Glint and kill her. At that point, the battle was lost and DE retreated.
In the Blazeridge Steppes loading screen, Kralk is large enough to crush The Shatterer in the palm of his hand, and The Shatter in turn is large enough to crush a human/norn/charr/etc with the tip of his finger.
That’s not Kralkatorrik. The Blazeridge Steppes loading screen shows The Shatterer surrounded by, I presume, Branded Lieutenants (the veterans that show up during The Shatterer’s event).
How is it Kralk didn’t simply squish the DE members and get on with his day?
It was a multi-step thing:
- He tried corrupting them first.
- When corrupting didn’t work (because they dodged, ducked, dived, dipped, and dodged), Glint kept him occupied.
- When Glint was dead, Snaff was able to mind-dive to keep Kralkatorrik busy, trying to kill the small threat from a distance. When Kralkatorrik decided to go after the group himself because his minions couldn’t kill them, Snaff had taken over Kralkatorrik’s body via mindscrewing the Elder Dragon.
- Destiny’s Edge had a weapon that could kill Kralkatorrik (a spear made from his spine).
Even if we’re to believe Kralk couldn’t just physically smash Destiny’s Edge, we’re also supposed to believe he couldn’t or wouldn’t use his immense power…power enough to rival a god…to wipe them from the face of Tyria?
He did use his power, but they were able to avoid his corruptive breath, and thanks to his dragon champion turning rogue, he had his hands full since he’s not a mental fighter.
Also, keep in mind that gods aren’t some invincible being of ultimate undenyable power. A group of 9 mortals can kill a (albeit chained) god.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
That’s not Kralkatorrik. The Blazeridge Steppes loading screen shows The Shatterer surrounded by, I presume, Branded Lieutenants (the veterans that show up during The Shatterer’s event).
I didn’t realize that. But either way, he’s said to be the size of a mountain. Even allotting for hyperbole, he’s going to be massive. And I’ve fought Glilnt; she was large, but she was far from being the size of the Shatterer. She was also far from powerful. A party of eight could take her down. A party of eight might be able to take down the Shatterer, but it would take forever. It is stands to reason The Shatterer is nothing compared to its creator.
He did use his power, but they were able to avoid his corruptive breath
Looking at the scale of the Brand, I don’t know how anyone could plausibly dodge his corruption. You can’t just climb into a refrigerator to shield yourself from a nuclear blast. And while Kralk’s breath isn’t a nuclear blast, it’s going to take one hell of a dodge roll to get out of its area of effect. Unless Kralk didn’t actually try to use his breath to corrupt them, I don’t see how they could have avoided it. And if he didn’t use his breath, why not?
I understand a suspension of disbelief is required to enjoy any fantasy writing, but I just can’t see DE (with Glint’s help or without) realistically surviving an fight with any Elder Dragon if it actually wants them dead without heavy use of plot armor and Saturday morning cartoon buffoonery on the part of the ED.
Looking at the scale of the Brand, I don’t know how anyone could plausibly dodge his corruption. You can’t just climb into a refrigerator to shield yourself from a nuclear blast. And while Kralk’s breath isn’t a nuclear blast, it’s going to take one hell of a dodge roll to get out of its area of effect. Unless Kralk didn’t actually try to use his breath to corrupt them, I don’t see how they could have avoided it. And if he didn’t use his breath, why not?
You forget that Almorra Soulkeeper, the creator of the Vigil, was the sole survivor of her entire warband that stood directly under Kralkatorrik’s corrupting breath. She survived in tact while being completely in the open and later founded the Vigil. Who’s to say that DE couldn’t do the same?
That’s not Kralkatorrik. The Blazeridge Steppes loading screen shows The Shatterer surrounded by, I presume, Branded Lieutenants (the veterans that show up during The Shatterer’s event).
I didn’t realize that. But either way, he’s said to be the size of a mountain. Even allotting for hyperbole, he’s going to be massive. And I’ve fought Glilnt; she was large, but she was far from being the size of the Shatterer. She was also far from powerful. A party of eight could take her down. A party of eight might be able to take down the Shatterer, but it would take forever. It is stands to reason The Shatterer is nothing compared to its creator.
He did use his power, but they were able to avoid his corruptive breath
Looking at the scale of the Brand, I don’t know how anyone could plausibly dodge his corruption. You can’t just climb into a refrigerator to shield yourself from a nuclear blast. And while Kralk’s breath isn’t a nuclear blast, it’s going to take one hell of a dodge roll to get out of its area of effect. Unless Kralk didn’t actually try to use his breath to corrupt them, I don’t see how they could have avoided it. And if he didn’t use his breath, why not?
I understand a suspension of disbelief is required to enjoy any fantasy writing, but I just can’t see DE (with Glint’s help or without) realistically surviving an fight with any Elder Dragon if it actually wants them dead without heavy use of plot armor and Saturday morning cartoon buffoonery on the part of the ED.
If I recall correctly, Kralkatorrik only had an entrance to Glint’s sanctuary on its way, where Eir and Garm were. The breath was reaching for them, but both took cover inside. So I’m guessing the sanctuary had some kind of protective magic measures against corruption. Just as the weapon Trahearne used cleansed Orr’s heart, there’s magic that can protect places and people from dragon’s corruption (Sanguinary Blade’s scabbard, for example).
On another subject and that derails a little from the post; there’s the Sanguinary Blade and the spear which is used against Kralkatorrik. Both weapons made from the dragon’s themselves. I wonder which of the races were able to forge this and if there are more. Dwarves were in posession of the Sanguinary Blade, but I wonder, was it them that made it? How did they do it? The smallest touch of it would corrupt anyone. They must’ve had strong anti-dragon magic. Can’t wait to meet them in GW2, and learn more about what they know.
I didn’t realize that. But either way, he’s said to be the size of a mountain. Even allotting for hyperbole, he’s going to be massive. And I’ve fought Glilnt; she was large, but she was far from being the size of the Shatterer. She was also far from powerful. A party of eight could take her down. A party of eight might be able to take down the Shatterer, but it would take forever. It is stands to reason The Shatterer is nothing compared to its creator.
Everything’s “upped” for GW2 in terms of size. Glint’s described as having a single claw the size of an asura – which makes her claws far bigger in GW2 – and that her wingspan covered the whole of her sanctuary. Again, that’s far bigger than she was in GW1. And Kralkatorrik was said to be 20 times her size – and 1,000 feet tall. I don’t think Kralkatorrik’s as big as you’re thinking he is (remember we also saw it in GW1).
Looking at the scale of the Brand, I don’t know how anyone could plausibly dodge his corruption. You can’t just climb into a refrigerator to shield yourself from a nuclear blast.
In the book, it explains that they ducked into crevices and the like. They basically put stuff in-between them and the corruption to save them.
And nice joke on Indiana Jones there.
I just can’t see DE (with Glint’s help or without) realistically surviving an fight with any Elder Dragon if it actually wants them dead.
And there’s the crux of the situation.
Kralkatorrik wanted Glint dead. He didn’t give a kitten about Destiny’s Edge until Snaff started digging in his mind, at which point he at first thought them to be a minor issue his minions could take care of – so didn’t bother doing something himself – and when he realized they were an actual issue, it was too late.
You forget that Almorra Soulkeeper, the creator of the Vigil, was the sole survivor of her entire warband that stood directly under Kralkatorrik’s corrupting breath. She survived in tact while being completely in the open and later founded the Vigil. Who’s to say that DE couldn’t do the same?
Technically, Almorra was standing just outside of the corruptive breath’s reach.
Which is, technically, exactly what Destiny’s Edge did too. Albeit differently.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Alright let’s think for a moment. Glint’s servants in GW1 were the forgotten, who had magic that could cleanse elder dragon corruption. I would think it highly likely that they would protect her lair with some sort of anti-elder dragon magic enchantment. Even if not, rock and stone seem to be enough to protect from his attack. It seems that the reason that Almorra survived was because she was under some sort of overhang (looking at the PoI on the world map). So you have 5 people holding the sanctum while his minions arrive with snaff controlling the minds of the minions to defend themselves until the dragon came. Then the Kralky arrived. They were inside of the sanctum protecting the only entrances with Eir sticking her head outside to shoot her arrows at Kralky to get some of the mind-control powder on him. At this same time Glint fought him trying to place a laurel on his head to make him easier to control. Her only advantage was that she was smaller and more nimble, but the game does say that she was an ant compared to him. Now imagine a creature this massive and powerful being controlled by a small creature, made weak and powerless to control even his own body, and looking death in the eye as Rytlock approached. Something that has never had to fear death before just looked it right in the face, and it ran. There is other speculation of the dragons feeling fear, this assumed by the times Zhaitan roars in the personal story. Once he was free, Kralky decided to make a run for it and everyone else was left in the aftermath.
It makes sense to me that they survived, I mean a creature like that wouldn’t have thought it necessary to personally deal with them, I mean how many times in the past did this happen? Most dragons just let their minions do all the work. And by the time he knew what kind of threat they posed, he was more terrified for his life than he was in seeking revenge.
I haven’t read Edge of Destiny, but I know the gist of what happened. But I find it very, very difficult to believe anyone would have survived this showdown.
Kralk is described to be the size of a mountain. In the Blazeridge Steppes loading screen, Kralk is large enough to crush The Shatterer in the palm of his hand, and The Shatter in turn is large enough to crush a human/norn/charr/etc with the tip of his finger. How is it Kralk didn’t simply squish the DE members and get on with his day?
And Kralk possesses the power to corrupt life and land for a stretch of miles and miles. Even if we’re to believe Kralk couldn’t just physically smash Destiny’s Edge, we’re also supposed to believe he couldn’t or wouldn’t use his immense power…power enough to rival a god…to wipe them from the face of Tyria?
I understand fiction, particularly fiction of the fantasy genre, often has plot armor. But DE must be strutting around in Plot Armor +5 if they walked away from a showdown with Kralkatorrik with so few casualties.
Apparently a lot of people who read the book forgot about this part:
Early in the story while Snaff, Zojja and Eir were fighting Jormag’s champion, they found a grey crystal that protected them from becoming corrupted. Later in the book when all the members of DE were united, they melted down the crystal and used it to tattoo into their skin so they will always be invulnerable to dragon corruption.
(edited by WatchTheShow.7203)
That crystal was something used to prevent mental connection, iirc. In other words, it would only be effective against Jormag and his champions.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
That crystal was something used to prevent mental connection, iirc. In other words, it would only be effective against Jormag and his champions.
I suppose, but isn’t that how Kralk’s power works too? He forces his way into your mind and takes control over you? I could have sworn the crystal protected again Kralk as well, otherwise that’s a somewhat large hole one could poke into the story.
They had power crystals on the golems to protect snaff from kralks breath. I believe they also wore some power crystals to help. The trenches they dived into were filled with power crystals. So they were pretty safe in there.
Actually there is no protection against Kralkatorrik from that crystal or the sanctuary. His breath attack is a stream of plasma that melts anything and everything into glass/crystal/brandedness, hence the only way to avoid it is to run behind/under/inside something. I’m pretty sure Snaff’s golem got turned completely to stone by it, allowing the branded to topple it, break in and kill him.
Kralkatorrik also doesn’t use any mental powers or attacks afaik that we’ve seen, just the ability to turn incorporeal by becoming a storm. If anything, his main powers are his size and his breath attack.
That crystal was something used to prevent mental connection, iirc. In other words, it would only be effective against Jormag and his champions.
I suppose, but isn’t that how Kralk’s power works too? He forces his way into your mind and takes control over you? I could have sworn the crystal protected again Kralk as well, otherwise that’s a somewhat large hole one could poke into the story.
No and no. Kralkatorrik’s (primary) corruptive power is physical manipulation via his breath – he only held a chance of corrupting three individuals mentally because they (Snaff, Jennah, and Anise) dove into his mind, rather than the other way around. This is also likely why Kralkatorrik’s corruption didn’t affect the Foefire ghosts – they’re not physical, so they wouldn’t have been affected by the corrupting breath.
The gray powerstone isn’t an “anti-Elder Dragon” device otherwise they’d be spreading them about the world as best they could. It’s an anti-mental powers crystal, and seems to be used against mesmerism forthright.
They had power crystals on the golems to protect snaff from kralks breath. I believe they also wore some power crystals to help. The trenches they dived into were filled with power crystals. So they were pretty safe in there.
The powerstones on the golem to protect Snaff wasn’t to protect him from Kralk’s breath – it was to help Snaff get into Kralkatorrik’s mind – the exact opposite of the gray powerstone.
The powerstones in the trenches, which they did not dive into, were used as spikes to kill branded that fell in them which, again, would allow Snaff to mind-control them.
In both cases, the “powerstones” were actually Kralkatorrik’s crystallized blood. They were also put on the laurel that Glint placed on Kralkatorrik’s head. And Glint warned Destiny’s Edge that the powerstones could prove to be too strong for Snaff and cause a backlash.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
But we could speculate that the powerstones did help to protect them aswell seeing as snaff was manipulating them. Snaff should of been destroyed inside his golem when hit by the breath imo. So I like to think of the powerstones having a small effect. Im not saying thats true. Just the way I like to see it, so it makes it more believable in my eyes.
My golem, the powerstones, they do nothing! The only thing preventing Snaff from being branded is the fact he was inside the golem. The purpose of the powerstones is explicitly stated, any other properties they have are speculation with no factual basis.
If the powerstones did indeed have protective qualities, why not stuff Logan/Rytlock’s armor with them? Eir survived simply by getting out of the way/ducking behind some cover. That’s no substitute for being inside an armored golem completely sealed off from the outside, yet it was still enough. There’s simply no reason to believe the powerstones have any properties other than those explicitly mentioned.
Only superficially. It gave Snaff control of the branded they were imbedded within, but it didn’t do anything to keep them from being corrupted. There’s no speculation to really be had, since we had the situation explained to us.
The corruption from Kralkatorrik’s breath was a direct touch kind of thing, and Snaff wasn’t touching the corruptive breath – nor were the others.
Touch the breath, you’re corrupted. Don’t touch it, you’re fine. Ever been to the Branded mines in Fields of Ruin? Inside isn’t (as, depending which of the two you talk about, and the more corrupted one is a mostly open mine) corrupted, and there’s comment about how some of the underground iron avoided corruption.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.