Guild Wars 2

The Human lore must have been great due to the fact that they were the only playable race, dominating everything and everyone, no?

Think of it this way, if Tigers suddenly develop intelligence equal to ours – they’re still not going to be able to defeat us. They lack many factors, they don’t have 4000+ years of technology and craftsmanship behind them. Everything we have is designed for us.

It’s why all the races in these games are Humanoid – we simply can’t comprehend using equipment for any other form/shape.

Yet if we ran on all fours like Tigers for the last 4000 years we would have designed everything to revolve around that. Cars would look different, drive different.

I did not play GW1, inform me.

Well, humans had the sharpest stick back then, mainly thanks to their gods. Since then kitten has hit the fan. Tigers got their act together and decimated 2 human kingdoms, nearly takin 3rd too, few new races popped up here and there with superior strength or intelligence and suddenly human stick were only of average sharpness.
Humans never were the most advanced race either. Dwarves had better craftmanship, asura brought superior ever evolving technology, charr started to evolve human and dwarven technology further….one could very well say that humans were pretty stagnant race happy with their gods, magic and the way things currently were.

Strang.8170:

Well, humans had the sharpest stick back then, mainly thanks to their gods. Since then kitten has hit the fan. Tigers got their act together and decimated 2 human kingdoms, nearly takin 3rd too, few new races popped up here and there with superior strength or intelligence and suddenly human stick were only of average sharpness.
Humans never were the most advanced race either. Dwarves had better craftmanship, asura brought superior ever evolving technology, charr started to evolve human and dwarven technology further….one could very well say that humans were pretty stagnant race happy with their gods, magic and the way things currently were.

<edit> o_O kitten filter made my statement sound brutal….

lmao love that you used ‘tigers’ in your reply.

Well how did Humans have the sharpest stick due to their Gods? Is this portrayed in GW1? Cause I find it odd that Humans can spend a game and 3 expansions dominating a continent and then get overthrown.

But yah, your reply doesn’t make Humans sound very powerful at all. Like they’re a dying race destined to follow the footsteps of the Jotun.

Fascinating stuff

BRB DOG ON FIRE.1503:

But yah, your reply doesn’t make Humans sound very powerful at all. Like they’re a dying race destined to follow the footsteps of the Jotun.

Fascinating stuff

thats the big idea about humans in gw2 there are on the edge , but they will never give up.

I find it odd that Humans can spend a game and 3 expansions dominating a continent and then get overthrown.

^lol

Humans are a dying race, without gods they are pretty helpless. They may very well follow the Jotun in time.

Yes, humans are indeed dying race, but they just refuse to die.

Gods brought humans to tyria in first place, and they then began to shape tyria to their liking. During their time, they were arguably the strongest entities on tyria, and therefore their favorites, aka humans, had strongest forces on tyria on their side. After their exodus (alsopoint year 0 on tyrian calendar), races like charr had gained more influence and began to pose serious threath to humans. Gods still undirectly affected tyria, their avatars could be summoned easily and their blessings were easy to gain. However, after the events of nightfall, gods pretty much left tyria for good.
True, humans were still dominating the area of the map familiar to us in first game (area they had conquered when gods still walked tyria), but even then they were starting to lose ground. Much can be attributed to warring between human kingdoms (guildwars) that left kingdoms weakened for charr invasion (charr still had lot´s of area beyond blazeridge mountain and in bloodlegion homelands north of ascalon). Charr caused the searing that devastated ascalon, they marched against orr and kryta. Orr was sunken in cataclysm caused by khilbron reading a ancient spell when charr were at the gates of orr and winning. Kryta was only saved by Saul D´alessio and mursaat that helped him, and even then it was just barely victory.

Technologicaly all races were on the same page back then, everyone had swrods, shields and magic, with dwarven kegpowder/machines here and there, also canthans had cannons. So in the end it all came down to pure numbers and power, which humans had back then, but then lost due to civil wars, wars against charr and due to their gods leaving.

Humans were more numerous but I wouldn’t say they ruled the world in GW1. At the start of the game they had 3 kingdoms in Tyria – Kryta, Orr and Ascalon. Orr was wiped out completely at the end of the Tutorial and never actually featured in the game. Kryta was in about the same position it is now, except ruled by an evil cult, and Ascalon was already falling apart at the seams. (There’s also Cantha and Elona, but I’m not counting them since they’re not part of the current game world.)

Also you seem to be assuming all the other races have only evolved in the last 250 years and that’s not the case. The charr lived in Tyria before the humans did and have been developing their society and technology the entire time. The norn and the asura lived in different places (the far noth and underground respectively) but like the charr they’ve existed for a very long time and were designing their own weapons and other equipment. The humans didn’t have a head-start over any of them.

The one exception is the sylvari, who did only appear 25 years ago and do seem to have co-opted a lot of equipment from the other races to catch up.

Guild Wars 1 is more or less about the beginning of humanity’s fall. The very first (chronologically) thing that people can encounter is the Searing – which devastated Ascalon, and off screen there’s the Cataclysm of Orr destroying perhaps the greatest human nation.

However, even before their fall, I would hardly say that humanity “ruled the world” – to our knowledge, they only lived in 3 (with implications of a 4 though) continents – these continents combined (and the space between them) make up roughly 1/8th of the world.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/4/47/Tyria.jpg

You should be able to make out Tyria on that map, just SE of it is Elona, and the continent to the south is Cantha (though we only explored the northern half of Cantha – but there’s implications saying that humanity came from south of said northern half of the continent – which would indicate the southern half).

As far as we know, since humanity arrived on the world they have indeed been the most dominatable race (thanks to Balthazar’s motivation and claiming all of Tyria for humans), but tengu are also said to have been from across the world – and though suppressed in Tyria and Cantha, and not seen in Elona despite living there, we hold no indication of their livelihood outside those three continents.

Furthermore, there are heavy implications that the charr rule a lot of land to the east of the in-game maps of Tyria (both GW1 and GW2 since they go equally far east more or less). They are said to have an “empire” if I recall correctly, with Blood Legion (and supposedly Ash Legion) ruling lands east of the Blazeridge Mountains – how far east is anyone’s guess though.

Before humans, though, it seems that dwarves and forgotten were the most widespread race – with the former having relics found in the Jade Sea (though how they got there is unknown, thus there’s only minor implications of dwarves in Cantha’s history) and the latter having outright been called caretakers of the world (and indeed, having a confirmed presence throughout continental Tyria, Elona, and Cantha – if not more).

So, among the most widespread races? Humans definitely fit. But “rule the world”? No, not at all. Some have tried, at least one god wanted them to (with 2 not), but they haven’t.

Though we don’t know the situation around the rest of the world – maybe humans are ruling those lands and we just don’t know for xyz reason (I doubt it though).

Blood legion homelands are north of ascalon i think?

And indeed to be precise, humans ruled most of the world we knew back then. And let´s be honest, as of this date rest of the world could aswell not exist for it´s impact on the world we know, apart from minor lore and intrique.

You know this kinda makes me think of the Chronicles of Narnia where you read a few books about the epic adventures in Narnia, then you learn that it is only a relatively small country on the outlying border of a larger world power. I am interested to see what has been going on with the rest of the world, if it is even an option.

Strang.8170:

Blood legion homelands are north of ascalon i think?

The land north of Ascalon are indeed called “Blood Legion Homelands” however:

“East, across the Blazeridge Mountains, Imperator Bangar Ruinbringer controls the lands of the Blood Legion.”

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Strang.8170:

Blood legion homelands are north of ascalon i think?

The land north of Ascalon are indeed called “Blood Legion Homelands” however:

“East, across the Blazeridge Mountains, Imperator Bangar Ruinbringer controls the lands of the Blood Legion.”

hmmmm….might be that citadel is there. Or the lands just stretch pretty kitten far.

I find it odd that Humans can spend a game and 3 expansions dominating a continent and then get overthrown.

Konig’s right – humans were already on their way out in GW1. They had spread across the world and settled into a range of cultures and nations, but all of them were beset by problems; I’d say Cantha was the safest, maybe, but the events of Factions had lingering consequences.

The thing you need to know about GW1 if you haven’t played it, particularly about the first campaign (which was set in the Tyria we now know), is that the main characters often made things worse. Sure, we stopped the lich and the titans – but only after accidentally handing the lich the powerful artifact he needed, because he helped us escape the cult that we’d accidentally joined thinking they were the good guys, because we needed help after following a rebel prince out of our country. We heroes caused half of our own problems, haha.

Here’s the dialogue from the cinematic you get when coming to Tyria from another continent:
Kryta. The City of Lion’s Arch. 1582 CC.
Of the great kingdoms of old, Ascalon has been all but destroyed by the invading Charr army.
The Shiverpeaks…home of the Deldrimor Dwarves…are torn by civil war.
No outsiders may trespass there.
The lands of Orr lie at the bottom of the ocean, destroyed in a cataclysmic explosion.
Only Kryta remains…the last hope for the great kingdoms of Tyria, and new home to the refugees of Ascalon.
And now, evil turns its eyes to Kryta.
An army of undead threatens to bring destruction to the last of Tyria’s great kingdoms.
The people of Kryta and the refugees of Ascalon turn in search of heroes who can bring peace to Tyria.
But who shall answer the call?

…so as you can see, the whole continent was pretty badly off even then!

Yeah, Kryta’s always under attack from undead, it’s kinda rediculous. But there’s no question that Prophecies was the beginning of humanity’s end in Tyria, but our actions then made it so that humanity at least survived this long. If it wasn’t for us Rurik would have gotten killed somewhere in Surmia, meaning that there would have been no ascalonian refugees to get through the shiverpeaks. Not to mention Kryta still being under the control of the Mursaat (saying that they did not just kill off humanity through sacrificial cullings)

The reports of mankind’s “near extinction” are greatly exaggerated.

First of all, Kryta is functional with a decent army, although it’s been bogged down dealing with the Centaurs.

Second, Ebonhawke withstood 250 year of Charr attacks, I don’t care what anyone says, that’s not the act of a ‘dying’ race.

Cantha hasn’t been revealed yet, and while the xenophobic government isn’t really a good thing, humans on Cantha likely control the most powerful empire in the hemisphere.

If anyone has cause to be near ‘extinction’, it’s the Norn. Driven into exile, no modern infrastructure, no strategic plan beyond “get a bunch of heroes and throw them at the dragons.”

This is the comparison of humans as they were to humans as they are, and note my post is entirely about the human influence in Tyria.

It’s been reduced to be sure, but even then you find a substantial military presence throughout Kryta. They may complain about being, “hard pressed” but so are the Slyvari, Charr, Norn and Asura.

Not really. Humans just composed most of the world population back then until all these events started.

Assuming the Pantheon is still alive (why wouldn’t they be?) I doubt they’d ever let mankind die off. Do they make a lot of stupid decisions? Yes, but saying they’re going extinct is absurd. We haven’t even seen what Cantha or Elona currently look like (both continents the Charr, Norn, Asuran, and Sylvari didn’t really previously occupy).

Humans were the most powerful and prominent race during GW1 and did rule Cantha (and probably still rule Cantha) and possibly Elona. You could argue either way with Tyria.

Ed, the other races are definitely stretched, even the proud Charr. Not only does each faction have their own, “destabilizing” element (flame legion, inquest, nightmare etc), you hear rumblings and discontent from each as well.

Some Norn wonder if they’ll ever retake their homeland, the hugely warlike Charr are stretched over too many battlefields, took a direct hit from the Dragon Brand, and are losing troops at a steady rate, the Slyvari are bogged down with undead. The Asura are under the least pressure, but if anything every went wrong with the Asura gates… (and we KNOW Elder dragons can mess with them on some level from Fort Trinity) well, they wouldn’t last long.

So, while humans have certainly lost power and influence, the other races aren’t quite as stable as they boast.

Humanity’s efforts to protect the world from various threats cost it dearly. Elona is a prime example. Powala Joko gained his freedom and returned to power because his help was neccesary to defeat Abaddon. The sunspears saved Tyria but at the cost of Elona and the human nations there.

Infact most of the fall of humanity can be put at Abaddon’s feet. The charr invasion, the Nightfall in Elona, the release of the Titans, the destruction of Orr and even Shiro were Abaddon’s work. Ironic that it was one of their gods that ended up pulling them back down. Humanity after that war was far weaker and the rise of the Elder Dragons just floored them.

Id say calling them a dying race though is foolish. Humans are very hard to kill off. They have a talent for surviving.

A good point, and one I wish was emphasized by Anet a bit more. Humans have made tremendous sacrifices for the good of all races. There are evil humans, history is often tragic, but in the end hundreds and thousands of humans banded together to save the world from at least a half dozen major threats, and lost their influence and power as a result. Very Elf like in nobility.

In a way, I like that. I DON’T like how Anet has not-so-subtly pushed forth the idea, “lol, humans are boring and old news, play a Charr or Asura instead!”

I know a marketing line when I hear it. The last page in my “hero’s hand book” from Eye of the North was a blatant, “Yeah, humans aren’t so cool anymore” RIGHT AFTER the defeat of a general of Primordus.

Yeah Anet, we get it. You like the new races. That’s cool, some of us still like humans, and from the population census it seems new players are still overwhelmingly picking humans as the majority of their characters. So much for promotions!

I know it sounds like I’m being a tad bitter, but there’s plenty of room in the sun for ALL of the races to shine. There’s no need to bring down humanity to elevate the other races. Let them earn the street cred like humans did and are continuing to do in Guild Wars 2.

I think in GW1, since the player was seeing Tyria from the eyes of a human, the player didn’t get to see exactly how much was going on everywhere.
It wasn’t until EotN that we found out that deep underneath Tyria was the very advanced Asura all the time. In GW2 we find out about the Largos, and who knows how far they spread since they stealth and share little about themselves.

I guess the great thing about Tyria is how many different species occupy it and have developed differently to interpret it all in their own unique way, before evening coming into contact with one another and sharing their perspectives.

If we put aside relating to a single species and it’s place in a hierarchy, and start relating to awareness and where it is/has been across Tyria… then it’s a cornucopia of paths/experiences left unexplored. An adventurer at heart would surely feel it’s energy.

Humans were definitely the dominant/ruling race on Tyria (the world, not the continent) prior to Eye of the North. In EotN, the asura were pushed out of the underground by the Destroyers, the charr finally began the revolution against the Shaman caste that was likely holding them back a great deal, and the norn were off being norn.
In the interim, the three human kingdoms (Dragon Empire, Krytans/Ascalonians, and Elonian countries) began to break their previously held alliances, with the Dragon Empire becoming isolationist in addition to Zhaitan cutting off overseas trade, Palawa Joko taking over Elona, and losing the last two capitals of the Tyrian Kingdoms, Ascalon City and Lion’s Arch to the charr and Zhaitan’s rise. Meanwhile, the charr were taking back Ascalon, the asura were developing ever-more-powerful technology, and the norn continued to be norn.

By the time GW2 rolls around, every race is about on equal footing. Every race is involved with some sort of infighting (Inquest, SoS, Bandits/Court, Flame Legion, Nightmare) as well as having outside disadvantages (Sticks so far up their butts, no centralized society, centaurs, ghosts, Zhaitan zombies). The equal footing is achieved by humans dropping like stones while other races rise.

After playing a bit more today, one of the Tengu in LA mentions that a Canthan Emperor (Emperor Usoko) had started a crusade against all non-humans which is one of the reasons some of the Tengu left Cantha. This leads me to believe that the 4 non-human playable races don’t hold any power or control on Cantha and that the continent is ruled by humans alone.

The most important human nations in Guild Wars 1 were;
- Ascalon
- Kryta
- Cantha
- Elona

Non-human nations were scarce.
- Deldrimor and Stone Summit
- Tengu reservations
- Charr

At the end of GW1, Ascalon was holding on but struggling a losing war against the Charr. Kryta had been reunited under the Queen at great cost. Cantha became human supremacist. Due to player actions Elona first fell into civil war and eventually became an undead nation.

As for non-humans… I think they got the worst end of the stick. In Cantha there was genocide against Tengu. Dwarves became a dying race of stone warriors. Norn had half their spirits destroyed or lost. Asura manage to get by. Charr inherited a ghost infested nuclear desert (basically Ascalon got blasted twice) with a Dragonbrand in it to boot.

As for Sylvari, in 25 years not that many could have hatched. They may be optimistic but numbers wise they can’t be succesful yet. Asura seem to have adapted to their new homes the best out of all.

Yes, humans may be struggling, but that pales to the struggle of other races. They lost a lot but still have the most. Like if you have 10 million dollars sure it sucks to lose 5 million, but compared to people who have a couple of tenners you’re still better off.

Charr once ruled all of Tyria north of the Crystal Desert & east of the Shiverpeaks. Then humans came in with their 5 gods and pushed them back. Then humans got a 6th god. Then the gods left, the Charr pushed back, humans fled to Kryta, and new races appeared when the dragons awoke. The gods gave humans magic, and without them, humans are pretty well kittened. The dwarves disappeared (human allies). Humans were never the biggest bad, but they did surprise the Charr and build a huge wall. Thanks to the Charr Flame Legion and their new magic & new gods, they took back their land from the humans.
With the surfacing of the Asura and the Sylvari coming into being and the Norn being pushed out of their territories, it’s obvious that the dragons are the big bad this time around and without working together, everyone will die. Hence, all the races we can play as in GW2. Even Charr.

The humans are dying.. in Tyria (the continent).

Elona and Cantha may be full of humans and AFIK there are no major Asura, Norn, Charr or Silvary colonies there.

Again, I just don’t see any evidence for this in game beyond a few comments from peasants who don’t know the whole story.

Humans have infrastructure production, a functional professional military and a moderate amount of safety within the walls of Divinity’s Reach. They’re on par with the other races, and far above the tribal ones. Hyperbole from Anet aside, the humans aren’t in that bad of a situation tactically. If Divinity’s Reach gets obliterated by an Elder Dragon strike, that would be a game changer, but humans are quite resilient and haven’t given up yet.

The Norns you come to find have been totally driven from their ancestral homes and have no greater plan for dealing with the Dragons than forging some good l33t gear and throwing their champions at them.

Humans on the other hand are one of the three designers of the Pact Airships.

Elona probably still has humans, centaurs, hylek, and harpies, though the amount of still living creatures is unknown. We do not know that Joko has killed everything off, the story states that he forced the nations to surrender, but thinking from the mind of an undead lord, keeping creatures alive gives you a continuous source of prey for your undead army, as opposed to killing everything off and being stuck with the amount of undead that you have, eventually dwindling into nothingness as the dragons fight your forces. This is of course assuming that Kralkatorrik and Zhaitan’s minions are invading Elona.

Now Cantha is probably a lot more stable. We know that the humans went through a purge of the continent. The tengu left or died, but there are still creatures and such still there that it seems unlikely the army has been able to kill all off. There are the naga, saltspray dragons, kappa, wardens, dredge, fungal wallows, etc etc. When it comes down to it I have a feeling that the naga, dredge and tengu that stayed still exist to some extent and wouldn’t be surprised if they somehow allied together against their common enemy.

manwiththemachinegun.6873:

A good point, and one I wish was emphasized by Anet a bit more. Humans have made tremendous sacrifices for the good of all races. There are evil humans, history is often tragic, but in the end hundreds and thousands of humans banded together to save the world from at least a half dozen major threats, and lost their influence and power as a result. Very Elf like in nobility.

In a way, I like that. I DON’T like how Anet has not-so-subtly pushed forth the idea, “lol, humans are boring and old news, play a Charr or Asura instead!”

I know a marketing line when I hear it. The last page in my “hero’s hand book” from Eye of the North was a blatant, “Yeah, humans aren’t so cool anymore” RIGHT AFTER the defeat of a general of Primordus.

Yeah Anet, we get it. You like the new races. That’s cool, some of us still like humans, and from the population census it seems new players are still overwhelmingly picking humans as the majority of their characters. So much for promotions!

I know it sounds like I’m being a tad bitter, but there’s plenty of room in the sun for ALL of the races to shine. There’s no need to bring down humanity to elevate the other races. Let them earn the street cred like humans did and are continuing to do in Guild Wars 2.

I agree with this times one hundred, it even shows in the storyline and a terrible lack of real interaction or depth between the different ethnicities of DR, even in some cases not even making sense or completely not utilized (*cough cough ZAMON)

You sell your previous games short by doing this and act like you are almost embarrased to talk about anyone in depth besides the Ascalonians. The Krytan story is not really being told and as I’ve said before, Queen Jenna looks like a minority in her own city. Don’t crap on the humans story for the other races, that just flat out sucks and makes those of use who appreciated the Non Ascalonian humans quite annoyed and dismayed. There was alot of depth there that could have been fully utilized by what was there already but is now ruined by sloppy writing and a complete rewash of things in certain instances. Its almost like they are ashamed of their past titles or just rushed in writers to just throw something together. Same goes with the designers. Sometimes I have to wonder if they have a bible for their lore and did they make the new writers read it, or just throw in anything for anything’s sake.

I agree with a lot of what you’ve said, Olithia – both in this thread and others. Unfortunately, some Arena Net employees have all but outright announced their disdain for the human race and seem to thrust a disproportionate amount of time and effort into developing the newer races at the cost of watering down almost everything that made the human race in this setting interesting to begin with.

One of their biggest strengths is that they’re diverse and adapt even in dire situations – yet none of this is shown to a satisfactory extent.

I feel there is likely a disagreement about Kryta.

I get a sense that the original story dev lead was trying to create a story projection where Elonians and their daughter nation Kryta would end up being the remaining human kingdoms (and specifically people) where as the Acalanions and possibly Canthans would get the extinction stick. Newer devs got in and didn’t like the direction and decided to make Krtya a mixing pot nation.

Yeah I’m pointing out some controversial conspiracy theories here, looking back at the old history you get an fantasy where the European based people are getting killed off while the Africa+Mid east based people have two fully functioning kingdoms.
Granted, Elonia is ruled by an insane undead dictator, which may or may not be as bad as it sounds.. It beats near extinction though.

I would expect that the idea has been for Cantha and Kryta to survive. It should also be noted that while in 300 AE, Kryta was made a colony of Elona and saw an expansion, the lands of Kryta were settled by humans since King Doric’s time – led by King Mazdack (first Krytan king, I believe?). This would indicate that Kryta’s about as old as Ascalon, but that they were very small and did not expand far (though for some reason Mazdek was buried in a crypt in the smaller Giant’s Basin….).

“Yeah I’m pointing out some controversial conspiracy theories here, looking back at the old history you get an fantasy where the European based people are getting killed off while the Africa+Mid east based people have two fully functioning kingdoms”

See I don’t see it as this at all, I saw this as a chance for Ebonhawke to become a powerful influence on the world. By turning Kryta into New Ascalon you took away the impact of Ebonhawke’s place in the world. Also by downplaying the Elonians and Kryta’s history you also took away the powerful story of showing the special situation that is now DR and the interconnectivity of the humans altogether. There are far too many storypoints not being used. What the newer devs failed to realize is that by not capitalizing on keypoints in the lore and taking away other things that could have been utilized. You completely weakened the story of the seraph and the guardians by not mentioning the connection to the Sunspear. You also weakened the overall story of the Order of Whispers being an Elonian group. You did the one thing that DC comics is doing now- killed alot of your past. Only this time it doesn’t make sense at all.

Instead of forming an elaborate well told story containing a tapestry of the cultures and what they contribute to Tyria as a whole because of their contributions you instead created a weak story that was just jury rigged and bubblegum glued together because your people didn’t take the time to read, or the old GW1 group didn’t make enough noise as to WHY things where the way they were in GW1. Instead of telling a story of unision and of “let me tell you why fantasy United States is cool” and what all the cultures are bringing to the table you played the game of “oh but our new races are awesome! screw those human guys”. You know one thing that used to annoy the hell out of me in WoW? That there was more culture with the elves and trolls than anybody else. But time and time again you saw more humans being played than anything. When will the devs get this?

Just to touch on some nuggets that were not used and how they could have been

Imagine if:

Zamon was an Elonian elder he was one of the group that came over fifty years ago he now secretly works with the Order of Whispers, the same order of whispers that supposedly knows how to get in and out of Elona. Lets say he and said Order of Whispers is running an “underground railroad” getting people out of Elona.

Kryta’s connection to the Seraph and the Sunspears. The Seraph if some of us didn’t know were inspired by Nightfall’s Sunspear why not include this into your lore? Kryta was once an Elonian colony so the in game connection is already there. Same goes for the Guardian class which also is connected to the Paragon class. Me personally you kitten right I would of had that one old grizzled Sunspear in the Ossan Quarter who also trained alot of the Seraph himself. He would have been friends to Zamon because he was there also fifty years ago. Hell he was the one who got Zamon out. By the time the Elonian expansion came I would have had him start looking for apprentices. Zamon would have been the one who pushed the players to help him, the old grizzled Sunspear and his Order of Whispers group to go liberate Elona. Also why is the Order of Whispers multi race now? Because Zamon wanted everyone to be involved. Why did Zamon get involved with Caudecus? Why because he and Caudecus are old friends, and Caudecus promised his old friend that if he was in power he would help his old friend take back his home. (Which is only part of the story old Caudi really wants some of those Vabbian artifacts and jewels). I see this great story of an old man doing the wrong thing because he feels that he may never get to see the day his homeland is liberated. Imagine if by the time you confront Caudecus for his crap old grizzled Sunspear pops up too because of what happened with his friend Zamon.

Instead we get a story of Zamon why are you helping him! Why just because ahahahahahahaha! And look I got rid of that annoying black thing tooo!

Now i am just curious as I have not really been playing the personal story, who is the leader of Ebonhawke because I also have a very cool idea as well for them. I will list it once someone puts that information here. And yes it ties to everyone else, like it should.

Commander Wade Sammuelsson is the Duke of Ebonhawke, descendant of the kings of Ascalon, and leader of the Ebon Vanguard. I have a feeling that, given his heritage and the importance denoted by the Desert Gate Guards in Fields of Ruin (need to have either Jennah’s or Sammuelsson’s permission to cross) that he’ll be playing a big role in the future – perhaps given a reforged Magdaer by the norn in order to test the legend of a rightful king of Ascalon being able to put the ghosts to rest.

Also, there’s quite a bit more behind Zamon, Caudecus, and the rest of the bandit situation than what the Noble storyline shows. You more or less must do all human storylines up to level 20, as well as explore Queensdale, Kessex Hills, Brisban Wildlands, and Harathi Hinterlands with keen eyes. In short: massive implications that the bandit leaders, and Caudecus, are White Mantle - their "why are you evil" is because they're wanting to retake Kryta, they seed the concept of Jennah being tyrannical into the populous to get them to join the bandits whom they are funding and leading. The Ministry Guard are also under direct control of Caudecus and are part of this plot - not all of them are good guys, and though not all are White Mantle some do turn to crime under minister orders. Zamon was merely a piece of the larger puzzle which surrounds Caudecus. Also, Zamon's an elected minister - he's nothing special in of himself.