Guild Wars 2

After Zhaitan’s death Tequatl rose in strength, did the same happen with the Pale Tree?

She is presumably the only champion of Mordremoth left. (Apart from possibly Malyck’s tree). Should she not take over the domain of mind? After all who else has her level of access to the dream of dreams.

We don’t even know if she’s healed at all from the Shadow’s attack. A lot of such threads have been dropped in the name of “pacing.”

Possibly if they’d included the Malyck tie-in as originally planned, we’d have seen the effects on the Tree. As it is, sadly, we’ll likely just have the result happen randomly at some point with at most one line of explanation to point to a rich hunk of lore the writers know but won’t share with us.

/sighs

I get that lacing story into an MMO is super hard. At this point I’d take blog stories to fill out the really important plot points we’re never going to see addressed in game.

Actually we kind of do have an update, Donari, from episode 1:

<Character name>: What was your business in the Grove?
Caithe: I was visiting the Pale Tree.
<Character name>: How is she after Mordremoth’s death?
Caithe: Ailing, but recovering. Although, not well enough to…give me the guidance I needed.

Basically, the Pale Tree is still in bad condition, so we don’t know if she’s more powerful – if she is, she can’t use that power due to being injured. But keep in mind that it took in-game almost an entire year for Tequatl to become noticeably more powerful after Zhaitan’s death.

I daresay that the Pale Tree is indeed stronger, because she is better, and I forget who said it, but I believe new sylvari are being “born” once more. So in that sense, she’s stronger. However, after being so heavily damaged, it’s hard to say if that means anything at all.

Nah, mordremoth is dead, so we’ll mostl ikely forget the pale tree even exists

Rognik.2579:

I daresay that the Pale Tree is indeed stronger, because she is better, and I forget who said it, but I believe new sylvari are being “born” once more. So in that sense, she’s stronger. However, after being so heavily damaged, it’s hard to say if that means anything at all.

As far as I’m aware, there’s no evidence that sylvari ever stopped being born.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Rognik.2579:

I daresay that the Pale Tree is indeed stronger, because she is better, and I forget who said it, but I believe new sylvari are being “born” once more. So in that sense, she’s stronger. However, after being so heavily damaged, it’s hard to say if that means anything at all.

As far as I’m aware, there’s no evidence that sylvari ever stopped being born.

Rognik might be refering to this line from one of Taimi’s blogs:

When Caithe was here, she said the call was gone, and she had even heard of new sylvari being born after Mordremoth’s death!

But I didn’t take that as meaning that sylvari stopped being born. Instead I take it to mean there were doubts if sylvari would continue to be born after Modremoth’s death and that those doubts turned out to be unfounded.

Diovid.9506:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Rognik.2579:

I daresay that the Pale Tree is indeed stronger, because she is better, and I forget who said it, but I believe new sylvari are being “born” once more. So in that sense, she’s stronger. However, after being so heavily damaged, it’s hard to say if that means anything at all.

As far as I’m aware, there’s no evidence that sylvari ever stopped being born.

Rognik might be refering to this line from one of Taimi’s blogs:

When Caithe was here, she said the call was gone, and she had even heard of new sylvari being born after Mordremoth’s death!

But I didn’t take that as meaning that sylvari stopped being born. Instead I take it to mean there were doubts if sylvari would continue to be born after Modremoth’s death and that those doubts turned out to be unfounded.

I figured that was it (couldn’t remember the source, though- thanks for the quote!), but I concur with your interpretation- the Pale Tree’s health isn’t mentioned as a factor there at all.

I never thought of the Pale Tree as Mordremoth’s champion. She is just a minion factory.

With every other type of dragon minion, only dragon champions can “create” (via corruption) minions in decent-to-large quantities. Without a dragon champion nearby to create the minions, there cannot be a “minion factory”.

With mordrem, this would mean that since minion factories are the trees, that the trees are dragon champions.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

With every other type of dragon minion, only dragon champions can “create” (via corruption) minions in decent-to-large quantities. Without a dragon champion nearby to create the minions, there cannot be a “minion factory”.

That’s an interesting line of thought. Things like the “risen replicators” seem capable of churning minions out, and the mordrem had independent blighting blisters, yet it’d be hard to argue that either of those are even sentient.

I think the bigger factor, shallow as it is (and pun absolutely intended) is size. Not all dragon champions are large, but every dragon champion past a certain size has thus far been treated as a champion- and the Pale Tree dwarfs every one of them. Size is also the main factor for the ‘minion factory’ types, the ones who do more than just corrupt what they kill.

Firstly, I never meant that dragon champions are the only way for corruption to occur, but rather, their presence is required for fast corruption – minion making in large numbers in short amount of time.

I get that primarily from:

Centurion Bloodfist: “While you were out playing Devourer Hunt, I received a report of something festering in the Brand.”
Centurion Bloodfist: “A number of Iron Legion regulars went missing just north of our current position.”
Centurion Bloodfist: “The legion sent a search party.”
Sentinel Whiptail: “Let me guess. They went missing, too.”
Centurion Bloodfist: “No, they came back the very next day-as Branded, bringing destruction to the Legion’s rear defenses.”
Sentinel Whiptail: “But nothing short of a full crystal lieutenant could turn them so fast!”
Centurion Bloodfist: “Generally, yes. But there have been no sightings here for weeks. We think we’re dealing with something new.”

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Destroy_Branded_devourer_nests

Given this, it’s not exclusive – so there’s reason to believe that the “risen replicators” and the “blighting blisters” are exceptions to the rules – but in most cases a dragon champion would be needed for making a lot of minions in a short amount of time – like what Blighitng Trees and the Pale Tree does.

It should be noted that the blighting blisters don’t make a large number of minions in a short period of time, and to me the risen replicators (iirc which event had them) came off more as being transportation of minions (like the ice crystals the Claws of Jormag drop) and/or minion-reformers (similar to that Mount Maelstrom event where a bunch of risen parts pull themselves together to form a risen abomination). But the dialogue doesn’t seem to be on the wiki so I’m unsure on the replicator part.

The wiki’s still pretty patchy when it comes to Orr events, but the NPC involved is Scholar Breandan, and his off-event is recorded. The thing is, what the fish he talks about ‘spawn’ are the coral-encrusted human risen, and they’re called replicators. There’s also the generators in Caledon that the event outright states are creating the massive plague bearers over a period of time.

The minion reformer angle is an intriguing interpretation, but I’m not certain I buy it just yet. The main issue is that these simply have the fish putting out a greater output than they could possibly carry, rather it be whole minions or liquidized components.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

With every other type of dragon minion, only dragon champions can “create” (via corruption) minions in decent-to-large quantities. Without a dragon champion nearby to create the minions, there cannot be a “minion factory”.

With mordrem, this would mean that since minion factories are the trees, that the trees are dragon champions.

Ah, OK.
I always assumed champions are more a fighting and destructing forces. And the Pale Tree is not really corrupting, isn’t she? She (is it a she or a it?) can’t corrupt another living thing into mordrem, right? I see her more as a general who via dream gives orders.
One more question: if the Pale Tree did absorb the magic and became stronger are the new born sylvari also stronger?

Amaimon.7823:

Nah, mordremoth is dead, so we’ll mostl ikely forget the pale tree even exists

Ironically that seems to have happened right as we launched an expansion to fight her creator.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

The minion reformer angle is an intriguing interpretation, but I’m not certain I buy it just yet. The main issue is that these simply have the fish putting out a greater output than they could possibly carry, rather it be whole minions or liquidized components.

You still hit the issue of what they’re making the risen out of, though, as risen are corrupted corpses…

Either way, their rate of making minions – whether it is corrupting corpses, reforming bodyparts, or whathaveyou – is less than a dragon champion’s.

Underdark.3726:

Ah, OK.
I always assumed champions are more a fighting and destructing forces. And the Pale Tree is not really corrupting, isn’t she? She (is it a she or a it?) can’t corrupt another living thing into mordrem, right? I see her more as a general who via dream gives orders.
One more question: if the Pale Tree did absorb the magic and became stronger are the new born sylvari also stronger?

Pale Tree identifies as a she. :P

As for corrupting… Mordremoth didn’t corrupt living beings (or dead ones) either. Like Primordus, mordrem are “created” out of inanimate materials – in this case, it seems to be plants. I use the term created loosely, as they’re still corrupting things – it’s just that they are not corrupting living beings. A lot of people seem to think that destroyers and mordrem are made from corruption just because they’re not made from corrupted beings.

The Pale Tree doesn’t give the sylvari orders via the Dream. You’re likely thinking of Wyld Hunts, which are given by the Dream itself – just as Dark Hunts are given by the Nightmare. Both Dream and Nightmare are independent of both Pale Tree and Mordremoth. Like the White Stag, the Pale Tree and Mordremoth are connected to the Dream, but neither creator nor controller.

To your new question: Theoretically possible, but other dragon minions (and Elder Dragons), they can control how much magic (thus power and intellect) a new minions gets. In turn, this means the Pale Tree can control how much power and intellect (thus magic) a newborn sylvari gets.