Guild Wars 2

Well its either them or the Azura seeing as the Inquest are everywhere and their just a faction of the Azura society. But the charr do seem to have a high presence in the pact I think maybe the highest and the area we see of their territory is just 1 third of what they have considering all the other legions have their own territory so it makes me wonder are they with highest population among the 5 great races?

*Asura, not azura.
You may be right, though. It does make sense for the overall charr population to be very high. Their entire race is (supposed) to be a great war machine, and would need as many soldiers as possible. That said, there are logistic issues with a high population. Soldiers need to be feed, and the charr are carnivores, which can greatly limit the growth of their population. A balance would need to be reached, one the charr may already be intelligent and efficient enough to have reached.

adormtil.1605:

and the area we see of their territory is just 1 third of what they have considering all the other legions have their own territory

If you’re counting the lands of the other legions, why are you not counting the lands of other humans? Because there are two whole nations of humans still out there: Cantha and Elona. Although, unlike the three legions, the three human nations do not have an alliance with eachother (and are unlikely to form one).

Diovid.9506:

adormtil.1605:

and the area we see of their territory is just 1 third of what they have considering all the other legions have their own territory

If you’re counting the lands of the other legions, why are you not counting the lands of other humans? Because there are two whole nations of humans still out there: Cantha and Elona. Although, unlike the three legions, the three human nations do not have an alliance with eachother (and are unlikely to form one).

Well, aside from the qualifier you already mention, there’s also the fact that we have no clue what the current state of either Elona or Cantha. Its entirely possible (though not necessarily probable) that Joko turned almost all the Elonians into undead or something, while we know that both Blood and Ash are roughly just as well off as Iron.

I personally believe that Hylek have the highest population of the sentient races, since they’ve got the highest the birthrate (i think I remember one of the hyleks in Caledon Forest says s/he’s got to care for over hundred children).
I think second are probably the skritt, because being in a group is essential for staying alive and they all stay relatively close to their burrows, so it is much easier to care for and produce offspring.
i think it is also said somewhere that they reproduce and mature faster than Asura and that this was a threat for the Asura before they came to the surface.
Who’s more of Asura and Charr is very difficult to say, but i can see Asura more having singlet or twins and since their main goal is not the society as a whole but their personal studies, I suppose they get offspring once or twice in their life and then give it in the care of golems or teachers to continue their work.
Charr i could see having a lot more multiples and we haven’t seen the other homelands of the other legions yet, so i say there are more Charr than Asura.
next would be humans, then sylvari (eventhough if you count Mordrems too they were probably higher on the list) and then Norn.
Norn last, because to support their lifestyle as hunters they need a lot of space and prey and a low population density. they probably also have high deathrate in young years.

The Greyhawk.9107:

Its entirely possible (though not necessarily probable) that Joko turned almost all the Elonians into undead or something

I’d agree that it is possible but not probable, as the Movement of the World states:

Vabbi bowed to his strength simply to survive, and Kourna and Istan both became vassal states.

So Kourna and Istan would probably still consist mostly of (living) humans. This is further shown when it says:

Palawa created a living army to match his undead one

There was a thread on this a long while back. The figures haven’t really changed all that much since then though. The end consensus was the charr being highest population in continental Tyria, but humans likely still having the highest population in the world.

Most continental Tyrian societies suffered greatly in the past 250 years – asura had Primordus as well as the Great Golem Uprising; norn had Jormag; humans had the centaur war, war with charr, and the rising of Orr.

Only charr haven’t really suffered but instead expanded – even when the Dragonbrand struck, it only struck less than a half of the charr lands as said charr lands extend to the far east.

However, if you’re counting non-continental Tyria as well, humans are far more widespread. Aside from the deminished Elonian population (which as of 50 years ago still existed), we have the xenophobic and (recently confirmed) prosperous nation of Cantha. Then there’s whatever lands Preceptor Doern Velazquez comes from.

Diovid.9506:

If you’re counting the lands of the other legions, why are you not counting the lands of other humans? Because there are two whole nations of humans still out there: Cantha and Elona. Although, unlike the three legions, the three human nations do not have an alliance with eachother (and are unlikely to form one).

All charr legions are in continental Tyria. They’re just not all in Central Tyria (what we see as the World Map in-game for the most part).

Elona and Cantha, unlike the Blood Legion Homelands east of the Blazeridge and wherever the Ash Legion make their home, are not part of continental Tyria.

Oreithyia.3064:

I personally believe that Hylek have the highest population of the sentient races, since they’ve got the highest the birthrate (i think I remember one of the hyleks in Caledon Forest says s/he’s got to care for over hundred children).
I think second are probably the skritt, because being in a group is essential for staying alive and they all stay relatively close to their burrows, so it is much easier to care for and produce offspring.

Both of those races also have the highest death rates too. Especially the hylek, as only a dozen out of hundreds or thousands survive.

“Hylek are born as nearly helpless tadpoles, with brood mates numbering in the hundreds or even thousands. The tribe oversees care of the new brood of youngsters with minimal effort, leaving individuals to fend for themselves. Food tends to be scarce and the hylek tadpoles that survive are often the most aggressive. Those who fall behind starve to death or are picked off by predators.

When the brood has reached maturity, the hylek hold a coming-of-age festival. During this festival, young hylek compete against each other, demonstrating their skills and showing their value to the tribe. How they perform at this festival will largely determine what path they take in life, whether it’s as a warrior defending the tribe or a merchant dealing with outsiders.

Hylek have a short lifespan, living into their forties if they can avoid a premature death from violence or starvation. Hylek who make it through their harsh lives into old age are deeply respected by the tribe and are often asked for counsel on difficult issues or for judgment during disputes among the tribe."

Konig Des Todes.2086:

we have the xenophobic and (recently confirmed) prosperous nation of Cantha.

I haven’t noticed any recent confirmation for that. Could you please post a reference? That would be interesting to read.

It was an indirect confirmation during Festival of the Four Winds.

Fade mentioned that the land they previously visited was one of the “culturally colorful ports of call” and that the new decorations we saw came from there. That kind of praise doesn’t really happen unless the place is either prosperous, or feigning prosperity.

Marjory, who is of Canthan descent, mentioned that the decorations are similar to the things her grandfather had. Unforutnately, it seems that folks never recorded that dialogue on the wiki…. Hmmm.

Edit: Luckily, got a screenshot of that line:

Good to know, thanks.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

There was a thread on this a long while back. The figures haven’t really changed all that much since then though. The end consensus was the charr being highest population in continental Tyria, but humans likely still having the highest population in the world.

I thought the conclusion there was that although the Charr likely have the largest total area in continental Tyria there numbers are limited by their largely carnivorous diet i.e. you need more farm land to raise cattle than grow plants.

That was the thought until folks brought up dialogue which shows that charr are omnivores, albeit with preference for meat instead of fruits and vegetables.

Like bears who can live with fruits and vegetables but its not the most effective type of food for them and can not reach their best with only those. While they can reach their best with only meat.
Their meant to eat meat but they can survive without it the thing is one is survive and another thing is thrive.

Charr certainly do eat vegetables, but meat seems to be their staple. Pretty much all of the food production you see in the charr lands is herding, fishing, and other activities that are about gathering food from animal sources – with all the associated inefficiencies. Combined with the greater physical size of the charr, it probably takes about twenty times as much arable land to feed a charr than to feed a human. Humans, sylvari, and asura seem to have much greater focuses on vegetable sources.

As the most industrialised race, the charr could ameliorate this by trading for another nation’s food surplus. I don’t imagine that the mostly hunter-gatherer norn have huge surpluses and the opportunity to directly trade with sylvari and humans has only come recently, so it would likely be from the asura, or through intermediaries that buy off humans and sell to charr. However, I’m still inclined to think that the greater territory of the charr does not necessarily translate into greater numbers.

The preponderance of charr in the Pact, however, can probably be attributed to the charr having the most soldiers. Most races are mostly civilians, with norn possibly being an exception (they don’t form a military, but their lifestyle will make most of them good fighters nonetheless), but I think it’s clear that there are less norn within Tyria than charr. The charr, by contrast, regard everyone as a soldier – some may be soldiers that have non-front-line roles that other races would regard as civilian occupations, but the mentality is there nonetheless. There appears to be an entente, or even a formal alliance, between the High Legions and the Pact (that’s why the Pact went to Fireheart Rise: smacking down the Flame Legion allowed the legions to give more support to the Pact) – it’s unclear whether the legions formally sent troops to Orr, but they clearly have a permissive attitude to allowing troops to go on ‘detached duty’ to one of the orders and aren’t shy about offering their latest war machines to the Pact. So while the charr may not be the most populous race, I think they are the race that has made the biggest military contribution to the Pact.

(Of course, it’s possible that a perception that there are more charr than other races in the Pact could come from the fact that of the five major races, the charr are the most distinctive.)

As for humans.

Cantha, kryta, elona. Not accounting for the lands to the east of Elona where harpies are from.

Not accounting for the island of Dawn and the continent of Arid(which was presumed to be the Aztec area from the unreleased utopia) which is probably another nation with tons of humans

The Greyhawk.9107:

Well, aside from the qualifier you already mention, there’s also the fact that we have no clue what the current state of either Elona or Cantha. Its entirely possible (though not necessarily probable) that Joko turned almost all the Elonians into undead or something, while we know that both Blood and Ash are roughly just as well off as Iron.

Cantha, as of rising of Orr, was intact and doing decently, bar the whole “Isolationists policies and hating all non-humans.”

Elona, while under Joko’s thumb, IIRC was also implied to at least be doing steady. Not improving, but not in a major decline? I think neither Order of Whispers or the last group of people who escaped really talk at all about the conditions there. I know from memory of the Movement of the World Joko was more concerned with wiping out the Ossa family and the Sunspears (or having them serve him, alive or undead.). They don’t say if he returned the Elon River back to it’s natural direction, but I’d kinda assume so since he actually seemed to want to rule over Elona and not wipe them out.

edit: As another person said, there is also that map which had two other, completely unknown major ports list. Those could be human nations/areas as well.

About charr, you can find a female charr cub who is tending a patch of strawberries. She tells you to keep it a secret though. :P

Was it unknown that you had to destroy the soul vessel of a lich to actually kill her during the events of GW1?
Again their omnivores and can live on not meat but they need meet to be as strong as they could be.

adormtil.1605:

Was it unknown that you had to destroy the soul vessel of a lich to actually kill her during the events of GW1?
Again their omnivores and can live on not meat but they need meet to be as strong as they could be.

We don’t even know if Guild Wars liches FOLLOW that thing. GW has a tendancy to turn popular fantasy things on their head. See vampires and incubus’s being bat like beasts.

We have no real knowledge or lore on the process to become a lich either. The two most known liches (Khilbron and Joko) only have one origin explained. Khilbron became a lich through the cataclysm of Orr. Joko we have never heard of his origin. We killed Khilbron without destroying his phylactery(which is an ascended trinket in GW2), so it’s unknown how that relates. We know of other liches (one during GW1 later Halloweens, as well as npc enemies in gw2), but we don’t know the process to become one.

That is ENTIRELY off topic though. I’d say Charr are heavy meat eaters but they do get some plants. As shown, there is a cub who tends a strawberry garden as special treats and makes the character (If you talk to her) keep it a secret. :P

However, we don’t know much about blood or ash legion homelands. And the world is slightly bigger then we see ingame, so yeah. they have plenty of ranches in Ascalon ATM, and likely trade for food and other resources with LA or through LA and the havens. Charr can export guns and other things they produce and import extra food for example.

I do not know about exporting guns Kryta has a very very low amount of guns. So do the norn but they do not have lot to offer to the charr in exchange since they are mostly hunters and they need to feed themselves first. But Kryta has.

adormtil.1605:

I do not know about exporting guns Kryta has a very very low amount of guns. So do the norn but they do not have lot to offer to the charr in exchange since they are mostly hunters and they need to feed themselves first. But Kryta has.

We hardly see the actual economy or bulk of citizens ingame.

Humans, Norn, and Charr all have their own gun styles (from memory), but we know that Charr in the original GW2 LA talked to the gate operators about moving large amounts of cargo through the gate.

There is also a Norn in Hoelbrek who collects guns :P. Trading with Norn isn’t trading with a government/faction, you are trading individually mostly. Or simply setting up shop and letting people buy it.

Well I actually mean the Seraph army they use bows in the age of canons and riffles they use bows. You get what I mean that the people who need guns do not have guns?

adormtil.1605:

Well I actually mean the Seraph army they use bows in the age of canons and riffles they use bows. You get what I mean that the people who need guns do not have guns?

It’s not really an “age of cannons and rifles”. Do remember that lore-wise, we are talking the equivalent to EARLY firearms from the real world.

Bows and Arrows are, in general, slightly easier to make and supply then rifles. :P.

Kalavier.1097:

adormtil.1605:

Well I actually mean the Seraph army they use bows in the age of canons and riffles they use bows. You get what I mean that the people who need guns do not have guns?

It’s not really an “age of cannons and rifles”. Do remember that lore-wise, we are talking the equivalent to EARLY firearms from the real world.

Bows and Arrows are, in general, slightly easier to make and supply then rifles. :P.

I always thought it was more like the age of Louis the XIV. And there was lot of cannons and riffles used back then mostly cannons but you get the point they did not used bows and arrows.

adormtil.1605:

Was it unknown that you had to destroy the soul vessel of a lich to actually kill her during the events of GW1?

We never destroyed a “soul vessel” to kill Khilbron.

Nor Zoldark. Nor Mazdak. Nor the generically named risen liches. Nor the generically named GW1’s dragon liches.

GW liches do not work on that concept.

And they really dead?

adormtil.1605:

And they really dead?

Considering we found Khilbron again in the Realm of torment and killed him there too… Yes.

Bar specific situations (I think there is something special in a Bloodtide Coast/sparkfly fen Risen Lich event chain that you have to do), Liches are just extremely powerful necromancers/undead necromancers.

adormtil.1605:

Kalavier.1097:

adormtil.1605:

Well I actually mean the Seraph army they use bows in the age of canons and riffles they use bows. You get what I mean that the people who need guns do not have guns?

It’s not really an “age of cannons and rifles”. Do remember that lore-wise, we are talking the equivalent to EARLY firearms from the real world.

Bows and Arrows are, in general, slightly easier to make and supply then rifles. :P.

I always thought it was more like the age of Louis the XIV. And there was lot of cannons and riffles used back then mostly cannons but you get the point they did not used bows and arrows.

I’m unsure exactly what you mean, but in GW2 there is a fine balance between tech, magic, and typical fantasy weapons. Sure, rifles exist and pack a punch, but they are (in lore, last I heard) slow to reload. A trained archer could put several arrows downrange quicker.

Yeah but its not only about riffles its about cannons as they brought a significant decrease in the number of archers in our own history.
Should the Seraph not use more cannons way more cannons. I mean really the benefits are huge think how the centaurs would be slaughtered if the Seprah had cannons.
This is the strange part they do not have cannons. I get the norn or even the sylvari as they are a new race with barely a army. But humans I can not. Asura have so yeah.
So why do I say this well the charr do not seem to trade weapons for meat as the humans are the best market for that.

Cannons have to deploy. Against a rapidly moving enemy force like the Centaurs, convoys to move cannons around would possibly miss battles. Way I’ve heard it, it was actually crossbows that brought the decline of archers (because it was easier to use/train).

Cannons are neat, but remember, we don’t see everything. Given how Anet at one point said Charr rifles, Norn Rifles, and Human rifles were similar to three types of early RL firearm, it’s kinda silly to assume the Seraph don’t have some sort of rifle in production.

Kalavier.1097:

Cannons have to deploy. Against a rapidly moving enemy force like the Centaurs, convoys to move cannons around would possibly miss battles. Way I’ve heard it, it was actually crossbows that brought the decline of archers (because it was easier to use/train).

Cannons are neat, but remember, we don’t see everything. Given how Anet at one point said Charr rifles, Norn Rifles, and Human rifles were similar to three types of early RL firearm, it’s kinda silly to assume the Seraph don’t have some sort of rifle in production.

Not really my proof the absence of riffles I see no riffles so I assume that nothing in production.
What better proof is then what I see.
Now I mean cannons as means of defense better said cannons on walls so they slaughter every army that tries to take a walled outpost or city that way they would not have been in such a situation.
Anyway the charr seem to be the only race that knows how to make canons and rifles and I think it was said in the game.

Kalavier.1097:

About charr, you can find a female charr cub who is tending a patch of strawberries. She tells you to keep it a secret though. :P

Nobody denies that charr are willing to eat vegetables. This is explicitly stated in a discussion between an asura and a jumpy sylvari in Brisban.

However, there’s no evidence of large-scale agriculture in the charr regions – it’s mostly cattle ranches. From this, I think it’s reasonable to presume that while humans get most of their calories from vegetable starches and eat meat for protein, charr get most of their calories from meat and the vegetables are an accompaniment (and possibly a source of vitamins). Anya’s strawberry garden is an indication that they have a sweet tooth (which probably means that, unlike real felines, a certain amount of fruit in their diet for vitamins is desirable for them), but their land usage suggests a primarily carnivorous diet. It’s possible that they COULD switch to what would be a more balanced diet from a human perspective… but from their land usage, they choose not to.

adormtil.1605:

Well I actually mean the Seraph army they use bows in the age of canons and riffles they use bows. You get what I mean that the people who need guns do not have guns?

I think this is mostly a reflection of the Seraph being a friendly group (mostly…), and ArenaNet usually don’t bother making more than two or three variations of a friendly faction even when lorewise they have more. Seraph only have two units shown ingame, sword and bow warriors (although there are miniatures of Seraph in light and medium armour…), Wardens only have three (dual axe wielders, longbow rangers, and elementalists) – and when you look at the charr, each individual legion only has a couple as well. Given the Seraph minis and the depiction in Sea of Sorrows, I think it’s reasonable to presume that the Seraph are actually much more diverse than shown in-game.

In story steps where you tangle with the Ministry Guard, they have rifles, and the heart in Claypool has a rifle firing range. So there clearly are guns in Kryta. However, those guns are also locally made (it has been explicitly stated not only that humans do have their own gunmakers, but that they have a different style to charr – charr firearms are mass-manufactured, humans haven’t developed the assembly line mindset yet and thus human firearms are still individually assembled by gunsmiths). It’s also worth noting that primitive guns (as they are in lore if not in mechanics…) aren’t necessarily better than longbows. England was slow to switch because a good longbowman is actually better than a good musketeer – the advantage of muskets was because it was a lot easier to train a good musketeer. In a world with magic, it’s entirely possible that longbows remain more effective and that it’s become Seraph policy to use them instead of guns. A lot of warrior and thief players would probably agree with this assessment.

When it comes to cannons… the Seraph do seem to prefer trebuchets with explosive ammunition. Again, in a magical world, this is probably a reasonable choice to make: it took centuries for cannons to replace traditional siege equipment in the real world, and we see forces like the Lionguard and the Pact that we know absolutely DO have cannons using trebuchets and catapults as well.

Reverting back to the discussion of trade, I don’t think it’s actually likely to be guns that they’d be exporting, but engines and similar examples of “peaceful” (or at least dual-use) technology. And given that the treaty is still being worked out, I suspect that their main trading partners are Rata Sum and Lion’s Arch rather than Kryta or Ebonhawke.

But Rata Sum does not seem to have a lot of meat production facilities while Kryta does have a number. Lion’s Arch is more of a city state but it does have a number not a tone but it has my question is why not Kryta as they have the biggest market for meat among all besides Charr.
Also I really hate when gameplay is showing the minimum about the Lore. At least they have something in other games gameplay and lore are parallel universes that have no conection.

Not sure quite what you’re asking, however:

We don’t see much in the way of asura agriculture at all, but we’re told it does exist (mostly run by golems or otherwise automated).

With Lion’s Arch, I’m inclined to think that Applenook is actually part of the domain of Lion’s Arch rather than being part of Kryta. It’s not really clear, since it isn’t garrisoned by either side. Either way, it’s likely that it’s not enough to feed LA on its own and that LA also imports.

When it comes to Kryta as a source – remember that Kryta and the charr were at war less than a decade ago, and formally speaking that may still be the case. It’s possible that some trade is happening, and had happened through middlemen, but I don’t think it’s reasonable to presume that the charr population has grown based off Krytan agriculture. It may happen in the future, but with the truce being so recent, even if such trade is happening it hasn’t been happening long enough to allow for significant expansion of the population.

Applenook is outright stated to be part of LA’s territory in the OoW storyline, and has Lionguard guards in both said story and the open world.

But it seems that Applenook and that one estate (forget its name) is the only farming fields LA has.

There were farms within the old LA map itself, but I’ve not paid close enough attention to tell if they are still there.

I think some got replaced with new stuff, but some of what was on the edges survived.

The major farm is still mostly there, out under the mill. It’s just not neatly terraced anymore, and I don’t remember if the sprinklers got repaired.

They haven’t. I kind of took that farm as having been destroyed by the invasion – both in terms of the ‘neatly terraced’ appearance as well as the poisons killing all the crops.

The farm is there, but there’s no crops.

There weren’t before, but they grew in with the new city. I’m half convinced it was only for the shot of all the refugees pushing through in the trailer, but…

EDIT: Looking at it from afar, though, it’s not nearly as large an area as the pre-Scarlet farm. It looks like close to half of it hasn’t been regrown.