Guild Wars 2

This is a question that is bothering me for a while.
Do we really need a team following us around?
Do we need to be a “boss”?

The question occoured to me while reading Shirens Post in another thread.

The Biconics are a group of people that don’t really have a reason to be at these places they are aside from plot convinience.
There is no “real” reason why they got together and started what they are doing.
Everyone just happened to be there at some point and then stuck around.

This is problematic, because even though we are supposed to handle them as “close friends” and people we can trust, we actually don’t know much about them.

They are the “recognizeable” and “affordeable” people to stick around our PC for exposition and their internal drama.

Which is a bit of a shame, as we got a whole world of interesting people we could meet and use instead.

By delegating so much info and energy on the Biconics, the world itself looses flavour and importance.

In LS1, the whole continent was unable to catch Scarlet, even though it has prooven otherwise before. They had a portal expert, who was very quick to hack into her network and there was no follow up?
She attacked Norn, Charr and Humans and all we saw was Rytlock sending an outsider and investigating a little bit?
Or Logan saying hello, before vanishing again, saying he can’t do anything?
All so that Majory (and I liked her there) is able to solve the puzzle, which the priory had for months?

LS2 pushes them in arbitary reasons to have them “usefull”?

Yes, we get told reasons, but why is it that I can ask so often: “Shouldn’t be there someone more suited for that?”
Which is basicaly my main gripe there. There are only so many things people are supposed to be doing, based on their supposed experience and the world they inhabit.

I don’t think any of these characters is really used to their full potential if they stick around the PC.
In fact being there is only harming them.

Majory is supposed to be a smart, rational, priory turned detective and for two storylines she did nothing. Yes she is grieving, but that happened most of LS2 and the whole of HoT

Braham… is the muscle of the group whon is now replaced with Rytlock and is the token Norn, which extra purpose was to link to DE via Eir… well even that isn’t the case anymore. All he has now is his revenge and being Rox’s “partner”?

Taimi is our token asura genius, who shouldn’t be at the frontline and could be replaced by almost every other asura, who dabbles in similar topics. I mean we see several Asura doing the same things as her. She just isn’t as special as people make her out to be.

Kasmeer… well yeah. Super mesmer and on-off royality. We actually have Logan and in extension Anise for that, so she is Majorys partner, know Faren and has deus-ex-truthsight.

Rox is a Charr, with no real standing, who now appearenlty has a standing and has a cute pet. She knows Rytlock which could have been important, but turned out it wasn’t so far, as he just “played” with her.

Canach is still debateable.

Td:lr: What I am saying is, that I believe the story could be told, by placing these interesting characters at better places, but not neccessary alongside the PC.
It feels weird traveling with them for so long and not knowing enough to warrant their place at our side, aside from what the game meta-narrative is telling us.

The world shows us so many “better suited” people, but we are to believe the biconics are the ones who are solution.

I wouldn’t mind them having other groups of individuals that we get to know and work with for different situations.

I don’t really care if they’re the best picks for their job- after all, our character’s only real qualification is being very, very good at killing things, which isn’t sufficient to earn the shot-calling position we find ourselves in. What can really get my goat is the lack of stake the biconics have. Just in HoT- Canach, Rytlock, Taimi, and when she joined, Caithe all had good reasons to be with us. No problem there. But the others were either tag-alongs (Kasmeer and Rox) or out for a revenge they showed a suspicious disinclination to pursue (Marjory and Braham). S2 was even worse, and S1… yes, it’s getting better, but they’ve still got a ways to go before it feels like a group that would believably be out doing what we do.

I was hoping that the biconics would go their merry way after HoT. I don’t mind a team but I don’t want that team. It would be nice to have some choices on who gets in with the team but it probably would be too much work.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

I don’t really care if they’re the best picks for their job- after all, our character’s only real qualification is being very, very good at killing things, which isn’t sufficient to earn the shot-calling position we find ourselves in. What can really get my goat is the lack of stake the biconics have. Just in HoT- Canach, Rytlock, Taimi, and when she joined, Caithe all had good reasons to be with us. No problem there. But the others were either tag-alongs (Kasmeer and Rox) or out for a revenge they showed a suspicious disinclination to pursue (Marjory and Braham). S2 was even worse, and S1… yes, it’s getting better, but they’ve still got a ways to go before it feels like a group that would believably be out doing what we do.

Well the considering what our objective is the PC is the best for the job so we have to kill elder dragons who is the best for the job the best killed that ever lived. Leave the jobs to the professionals and there is no better professional then the PC. The rest help us do what we do best what if we had a huge gorge between us as the thing that block us towards what we need to kill how can we reach it without Kasmeer. What if we have some very complicated seer or asura trap or door we need Taimi to get passed it. The rest do not have their point maybe as meat shields we sometimes need meat shields.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

I don’t really care if they’re the best picks for their job- after all, our character’s only real qualification is being very, very good at killing things, which isn’t sufficient to earn the shot-calling position we find ourselves in. What can really get my goat is the lack of stake the biconics have. Just in HoT- Canach, Rytlock, Taimi, and when she joined, Caithe all had good reasons to be with us. No problem there. But the others were either tag-alongs (Kasmeer and Rox) or out for a revenge they showed a suspicious disinclination to pursue (Marjory and Braham). S2 was even worse, and S1… yes, it’s getting better, but they’ve still got a ways to go before it feels like a group that would believably be out doing what we do.

If I remember Taimi’s reason was, that she wanted to study Scarlet (maybe even become her aprentice) and to show off what she is able to do.
She only ended up with us, because Zoija handed her to us and Braham had to babysit her.
She then ended up becoming part of the team in S2, after spending the finale of S1 in the camps, getting traumatized by the destruction her former idol caused.

Her reason for HoT was that she finished upgrading her Golem and then went along, with the same reason everyone else had. Fight Mordremoth.
her personal endevor was: Show off that I am to be taken seriously. , though we can add that it was fueled thanks to S2 and the destruction of LA, even though she is still a kid .

If we talk about Rytlock , we actually have no idea what his stakes are at the moment, aside from the obvious eldar dragon danger, that concers everybody.
He never told us how he got back and what is really driving him. Well, aside from the magic he can cast and the acompanied voices he appearently hears now.

Though I could be making it too simple.

I agree on the rest, though. If their “stakes” would have been explored in HoT, or even be talked about, they would have been more relateable.

Ironicly Braham actually got a new goal, though it is basicly the same he had allready with his introduction: revenge , which unfortunatly cements him even more as the one-track muscle of the group, that is now overshadowed by Rytlock (as long as we keep him around)

Overall they need to be explored more, to be more rounded. Even if the focus is on one particulary, the others shouldn’t feel like random NPCs that struddle along with us.

In HoT each of them should have progressed, yet some were mostly neglected, which makes me ask, why they were even there to be begin with.

We allready have a story which is mostly focused on key moments, that leaves world progression mostly in the dust (for obvious reasons).

What Taimi’s after is acknowledgement, to be treated like an equal- something she can’t get in Rata Sum. As far as we know, we’re the only one who treats her like that. She’s with us because we’re the only one who allows her the freedom to do her own thing, and as the biconic motivations go, that’s probably the strongest.

Rytlock is the ‘professional’ of the group, an experienced dragon fighter who teamed up with one proven and trusted comrade to rescue the rest of his team. Again, pretty strong reason to stick with us.

Canach, incidentally, I see as being along for a similar reason to Taimi- we’re the only ones in the heat of the action that he knows will allow him to contribute. He likely could’ve found another such group, but it would’ve been a time-consuming risk with no comparative advantage.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

What Taimi’s after is acknowledgement, to be treated like an equal- something she can’t get in Rata Sum. As far as we know, we’re the only one who treats her like that. She’s with us because we’re the only one who allows her the freedom to do her own thing, and as the biconic motivations go, that’s probably the strongest.

Rytlock is the ‘professional’ of the group, an experienced dragon fighter who teamed up with one proven and trusted comrade to rescue the rest of his team. Again, pretty strong reason to stick with us.

Canach, incidentally, I see as being along for a similar reason to Taimi- we’re the only ones in the heat of the action that he knows will allow him to contribute. He likely could’ve found another such group, but it would’ve been a time-consuming risk with no comparative advantage.

I think Taimi would have found acknowledgement elsewhere, over the course of the story, she just happened to stick with Braham after he took care of her in the mists.
Her reasoning is okay for a kid her age, it is just a bit sad for her, as we know that Zoija is actually acknowledging her.
Her own selfish desire to be on the front is a bit iffy for me in the whole HoT story to be honest.
If she would proclaim that she wants to safe Zoija for example, we would have seen more of her inner turmoil.
She doesn’t like Zoija, but she was the one who brought her up, so there should be a bit of a greater connection there.

Rytlock has the same goals as everyone else. Fight the dragons, rescue his friends and comrades. Strong reasons, sure, but none that the others don’t have as well. Though, his bond to DE might be more reason than the voice in his head.

Canach is shoved into the group. Actually our group is the one he would have had the most trouble with, since the PC and the rest knows too much about his dealings and his background.
He has built up a better reputation with other pact soldiers in the silverwastes (as seen in S2), than with us.
The turn of our PC from I don’t trust Canach to Canach is my best buddy felt forced and I don’t remember any particular moment where he proved to have changed.
He mostly acted on his own selfish desires, which gave him strenght. His goals happened to align with the mission at hand, but the proposed change we see in the final mission with him is nothing I really feel that happened.
If someone can pinpoint me to these things I would be glad, but so far Canach is actually one of the more unlikely members of the team, because he isn’t there on his own volition and actually is/was in a non-trusting enviroment.

It’s a shame that we can’t assemble our own team much like how we could recruit heroes in Guild Wars 1.

I honestly don’t like DE 2.0 at all and much prefer if we had stuck with the original crew. Or if we’re going to change team members, do it with every new expansion. There is literally nothing they contribute that the original members couldn’t. The only one I really approve of is Canach although I didn’t play LS1, I liked how his character developed through LS2 and HoTs. I think the problem is that non-sylvari who played through HoTs don’t really get the bonding that sylvari PCs get with Canach. Since I only played on a sylvari character, I felt Canach was the only one in the party who understood the internal conflict of fighting back Mordremoth in the mind as they went through the jungle. Like we made sure to keep each other in check most of the time. Granted, any Sylvari could’ve fulfilled the same thing, like maybe Caithe.

Taimi and Zojja could’ve done the same thing except Zojja can fight without her suit, so it probably would’ve been easier.

I’m guessing Marjory was only a detective in LS1 because I honestly think anyone else could do her job, she was also barely there.

Kasmeer I thought was actually useful, but I just reeeeaaally didn’t like her. I can’t really describe it, I guess her personality just seemed generic to me.

What was Rox supposed to do?.. she just seemed kinda there.

Braham didn’t really interest me because they never explained the conflict him and his mom had. He just kinda hated her and she felt guilty and then they just got along. Then when they killed Eir, it felt forced just to give him some kind of resolve to him.

Rytlock, had never really had any reason to do what he did, but he didn’t really have a reason in EoD. Things just kinda happened, so him being there was more or less “Not leaving a job unfinished”. I wish they’d go more in-depth into his journey in the mists. I think he would have gone his own way to fight back Mordremoth, especially if he found out his boyfriend and Zojja were captured.

Final Verdict: We need Biconics to help the PC overcome obstacles that wouldn’t make sense for us to know how to solve and for commentary to answer questions we, the player, might have or to develop plot. Do we need these specific guys? No, I despise em. I miss the original DE or i wish they would change them every expansion so we can experience different people.

Well, I think there were some great characters in the personal story with whom I’d rather form up a team again than with the current DE 2.0 members, like Galina and Snarl, Elli, Eilye Jeyne, Benn Tenstrikes and his parents, Agent Zrii.

I’m sad that all these characters were sidelined in favor of the biconics.

The only one I really like is Canach, but he was a temporary member of the team.

I’m not really fond of Taimi when I’m on my asura guardian, since it’s always Taimi who represents the brain of the group (though it’s more of an issue of how your race doesn’t play a part in storytelling most of the time).

I think her “character development” was pretty awkward and forced in Buried Insight:

Taimi: I’ll be staying in Rata Novus with all this delectable research—bummer!
<Character name>: Alone? Are you sure?
Taimi: Hey, would you ask Rytlock if he was sure? Canach?

Such a stupid comparison….. how can she compare herself to those 2 ……. she is crippled, she lost her golem, she is basically defenseless. Times like these when we should really treat her as what she is, a little stubborn kid.
I think we let her do what she wants way too often.

To tell you the truth, I can’t really relate to the biconics. I don’t find them intriguing or fun.
During the personal story, there were 2 times I felt that I’m part of a real team. Once in the “Estate of Decay” mission and then during the Order of Whispers story missions in Orr (Stealing Light, Conscript the Dead Ships, Ships of the Line).

I hope some day I can say the same when I’m with the biconics.

And now that we speak about the biconics, this thread reminded me of an old one written by Shriketalon titled “The Biconics cannot carry the GW franchize”, and it’s sad but what he wrote is still relevant today.