Guild Wars 2

The Sylvari were created and was made to be the dragon minions, but some of them could still resist the dragon’s influence(even inside its mind). Is it because Mordremoth was weak on control, or all dragon’s influence have a limit, based on the individuals’ will and maybe distance? We don’t see Icebrood or Branded could resist. Risen probably function in a different way because they are basally dragon power animated zombies.

As far as I remember, they were able to resist because of Ventari’s tenets.
Stronger connection to Ventari’s dogma -> higher resistance against Mordremoth. For that reason, it’s not unlikely that the other pale tree(s) didn’t have such a resistance mechanism.

By the way, I wouldn’t compare Sylvari to Icebrood / Branded. As far as I know, those are “just normal guys” – poor Quaggans – that got corrupted by the Brand or by Jormag’s “I’ll give you power in exchange” (like the mordrem for Mordremoth). Sylvari are “true” dragon minions, a bit like destroyers.

Thanathos.2063:

As far as I remember, they were able to resist because of Ventari’s tenets.
Stronger connection to Ventari’s dogma -> higher resistance against Mordremoth. For that reason, it’s not unlikely that the other pale tree(s) didn’t have such a resistance mechanism.

By the way, I wouldn’t compare Sylvari to Icebrood / Branded. As far as I know, those are “just normal guys” – poor Quaggans – that got corrupted by the Brand or by Jormag’s “I’ll give you power in exchange” (like the mordrem for Mordremoth). Sylvari are “true” dragon minions, a bit like destroyers.

And it should be even harder for the Sylvari to break control.

Also The Sylvari didn’t become Mordrem guards until they got too close.

Seem like the dream helps them resist mordy’s call

IMO till we learn exactly how the Pale Tree was freed (we clearly dont have the whole story) we can only guess why her children are so different from other dragon minions. (well besides the fact dragons make control/minions in different ways xD)

Thanathos.2063:

As far as I remember, they were able to resist because of Ventari’s tenets.
Stronger connection to Ventari’s dogma -> higher resistance against Mordremoth.

Wrong. The nightmare court has the same protection against Mord as the normal sylvari do. It is the soundless that seem most at risk. Here are the guessed reasons for resistance against Mord’s influence:

1) Distance from Mord (the closer you get, the stronger his influence).

2) connection to the dream (hence the risk of the Soundless which are only loosely connected to the dream).

3) a strong pale tree (which was weakened by the attack of the Shadow of the Dragon).

4) A strong will. Which is why sylvari like the player character, Caithe and Canach do not become corrupted even when they are very close to Mord.

What is a different matter alltogether is why the pale tree and the sylvari were born free in the first place. That might have had something to do with Ventari’s ideas but we don’t actually know. It might also have had to with being grown on top of the graves of Ronan’s family. Or growing outside of Mord’s influence.

This is because the method that the sylvari were turned into Mordrem Guard is different to regular dragon corruption.

Regular dragon corruption involves rewriting the victim’s loyalties so that their first loyalty is to the dragon (not necessarily only loyalty, but any other loyalties they might have are focused through the lens of the dragon being the most important thing in their lives: a minion might, for instance, honestly think that the best thing for their friends is to join the dragon’s service). Apart from this, however, minions are left alone apart from when they are given specific orders. Sylvari are immune to this form of corruption, even, it seems, from Mordremoth.

However, Mordremoth does still have a connection with the minds of sylvari. The Pale Tree appears to have been able to block this connection, although she can’t do so for sylvari that turn away from her, and her capability of doing so was substantially compromised when she was wounded. Mordremoth uses this connection to employ more conventional mind control techniques on sylvari, and seizes command of them that way. However, if this link is broken (and Canach doesn’t push them into re-establishing the link) a compromised sylvari can regain their freedom.

@Diovid: The way the sylvari turned has strengthened my suspicion that the Pale Tree’s seed, or an ancestor of the Pale Tree, was cleansed at some stage using a similar process to Glint. I can’t find my copy of Edge of Destiny right now, but from memory Glint also retained a mental connection to Kralkatorrik – however, her mind was strong enough that she was able to use it against Kralkatorrik to keep a tab on his status and location rather than being at any risk of Kralkatorrik mind-controlling her through it like Mordremoth did to sylvari.

As draxynnic said, Mordrem Guards are not corrupted – at least not in the regular method.

Sylvari and the Pale Tree for some unknown reason was given protection – in-game dialogue heavily implies this protection takes form in The Dream of Dreams and is guided by the Pale Tree, but we aren’t 100% sure – whatever gave them free will in the first place, which remains unknown despite the plot coming and going, is likely very similar to the ritual used on Glint.

As shown in the story instance Buried Insight, Mordremoth’s mental influence is distance based – this is no longer suspected like Diovid said but pretty much confirmed; Mordremoth’s voice is silent to Canach and the Mordrem Guard who wandered there passes back and forth between his old self and his new self to the point of voice wavering (it’s very hard to tell this from just reading the dialogue – the voice acting is critical here). This situation with the Mordrem Guard proves that their free will was not overwritten like typical dragon corruption (as seen in the case of Zhaitan, Jormag, Kralkatorrik, and Primordus), but overwhelmed.

In theory, this means if you take a Mordrem Guard far enough away from Mordremoth while it was alive, it had the chance to become their old self – if they haven’t fallen into the new thinking processes instilled by Mordremoth to the point of being irredeemable. One would question how this fairs for the Mordrem Guard now that Mordremoth is dead – if ArenaNet does their cards right, we could see not only a conflict between sylvari and other races, but a civil war within the Mordrem Guard, between those who return to their old selves ashamed and those who remain devoted to the dead dragon, lost to its implanted thoughts, and even a conflict between those who would see the returned Mordrem Guard dead or put into rehab for another chance.

There are various dialogues across HoT which indicates that Mordremoth’s whispering orders are being done in such a way that the individuals think that the whispers are their own thoughts. Those kittenist aren’t really ‘those with strong will’ but ‘those who can separate their own thoughts from Mordremoth’s whispers, and not listen to the latter’. Occam describes it well: “I know who I am.” That’s got nothing to do with willpower, but selkittennowledgement.

Their physical change is explained back in Season 1, as we saw it happen with Canach (and we saw it happen with Caithe in S2’s flashbacks). When a sylvari suffers from extreme psychological changes, their body changes a bit to reflect those changes.

The Mordrem Guard are just sylvari who listened to these whispers, causing a dramatic change in psyche that resulted in the typical sylvari-unique physical change. All evidence points to the fact that they are not corrupted at all.

What this means is that Mordremoth likely cannot corrupt sylvari – otherwise why wouldn’t he? Most likely, the only “truly corrupted” Mordrem Guards are those who are spawned from the Blighting Trees (which are really only the three Mordrem Guard commanders – side note: Faolain was killed, so she wasn’t a Mordrem Guard despite having been a sylvari, I’m even hesitant to think that the Faolain/Vinetooth hybrid even used Faolain’s original body). This also explains why any sylvari could resist Mordremoth’s call. You cannot resist dragon corruption – that’s been proven time and time again – without something unique, and sylvari are killed from a dragon’s corruption (even Mordremoth it seems, given Mordremoth’s lack of true corruption on sylvari).

So to answer the OP’s question:

The sylvari may find their origins in Mordremoth, but like Glint they broke from their yoke of being dragon minions. The only question is “how” they broke it, not really “if”. Whatever gave them this freedom in the first place still protects them, and only through trickery could Mordremoth get any to serve him. Elder Dragons are powerful, but brute force and even genius does not necessarily mean you’ll be able to manipulate all others.

Sylvari are not icebrood or branded or risen (who do function the same as branded and icebrood – being dead doesn’t change dragon corruption and some icebrood are corrupted corpses as proven in Edge of Destiny). They are not even mordrem. And just as we saw Glint resist Kralkatorrik, we see sylvari resist Mordremoth.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

As shown in the story instance Buried Insight, Mordremoth’s mental influence is distance based – this is no longer suspected like Diovid said but pretty much confirmed; Mordremoth’s voice is silent to Canach and the Mordrem Guard who wandered there passes back and forth between his old self and his new self to the point of voice wavering (it’s very hard to tell this from just reading the dialogue – the voice acting is critical here).

I’m completely with you on the rest, but I’m thinking that what happened there wasn’t anything so simple as ‘distance’. If you consider that spot near Rata Novus to be roughly the extent of Mordremoth’s reach, that’d leave the northern half of Auric Basin, both guild halls, and the entirety of Verdant Brink beyond it, which clearly isn’t the case.

I was thinking that the depth underground – which is supposed to be greater there than elsewhere in HoT except maybe the various chak hives and ley line confluence where the gerent goes (all void of mordrem) – made it further than the 2d distance of Dragon’s Domain to Verdant Brink.

Alternatively/as well as the distance from any of Mordremoth’s corruption, which are definitely beneath Verdant Brink but rather far from that corner (closest is the mordrem migration path).

While scaling in game is always a fickle and inconstant beast, for the depth to make up the difference we’d essentially be talking about the breadth of an entire zone, straight down. Extrapolating off of Ghosts of Ascalon, that might put it on the scale of dozens of miles. Not technically impossible, I suppose, but…

The distance from corruption is an interesting angle, though. I won’t derail the thread further, but I think those sorts of more nuanced possibilities will hold more water in the future- if this is ever touched upon again at all.

Rata Novas is deep but its prolly not That deep if it getting light from the surface with cables (its possible to have really long cables.but the resources req for one group of a refugee race would be alot IMO)

i have a theory that maybe when a dragon is asleep it up to the champ to pass along the dragons will/orders? (like how the destroyers became disorganized when the great destroyer was killed in eotn)

I think it’s less a question of distance per se and more related to signal strength. Distance from Mordremoth (and possibly champions and significantly powerful minions that act as relays) is one form of protection. I doubt that anywhere in the Heart of Thorns maps has sufficient distance to serve as protection, though – in the case of Rata Novus, I think it’s actually that the Rata Novans found some way to block the signal which, for now, has been left as a mystery. The dialogue with Canach comes off as Mordremoth’s voice cutting off fairly rapidly, rather than being a slow attenuation as I’d expect if it was simply a matter of distance.

We may learn more on what exactly was happening there as Taimi gets into the Rata Novan research. Or it may be another plot thread that is left hanging indefinitely.

Random Ideas:

Moredremoth was planning for the next time he would awaken, so he ‘planted seeds’ (Pale Tree(s)) to spawn his minions for him. These would start spitting out Sylvari well before he would wake up so there’d be an army ready for him. This would have given him a leg up over a few other Dragons who have to corrupt something to get a minion (If Zhaitan didn’t have all those dead, he’d have been in an even tougher position)

Sylvari are adolescent Mordrem; mostly friendly (with exceptions), able to get along with the other races. This was planned so his army could spread passively through the world, mostly unchallenged.

The protection from corruption that Sylvari enjoy could have been given to them by Moredremoth himself. Since there is no guarantee that he’d be the first wake, he did this to stop another Elder Dragon from subverting his minions. This may mean that he himself then can’t ‘corrupt’ them in the tradition Elder Dragon way. As such, he builds in a back door (Being the Dragon of Mind) so that he can still exert influence through their minds; though being immune to true corruption, this means he doesn’t have perfect control over them.

if the protection was that way shouldnt they die if mordy tryed to corrupt them?
i think mordy cant corrupt them becuse they already his minions. i think the pale tree did something to give them free will (somehow didnt give them mordy’s will/orders) and this is why mordy have to play mind games to win them over. the dream was prolly the pale tree’s back up plain in case she die (she is a inmoble tree after all)

@Thermaltron Mordremoth didn’t plant the Pale Tree. She was pulled out of a cave of seeds guarded by plant monsters, and then planted, by a human. And if Mordremoth had intended them to be falsely pleasant sleeper agents, as you suggest, that leaves a question of why the only tree to acheive contact with the races that stood as a threat got planted by accident.

maybe the guards was supposed to plant them at some point? (although that would be a very silly plain for a elder dragon xD what if all the guards was killed :s)

Maybe The Pale Tree was in charge of the whole “make mordrem minions in the form of Sylvari” department. And maybe it would have gone swimmingly if someone hadn’t stolen Mordremoth’s general from a cave! I’m only speculating, but it seems like Mordremoth put a little too much of his plan on his pale trees. They seem to be the biggest producers of his most sentient minions. The hounds and thrashers and terragriffs are neat and all, but pretty mindless and stupid. The good soldiers are apparently produced by specialized trees. And one of those trees was given free will.

I think for the sylvari it’s a matter of upbringing and life experience overcoming basic instincts. Aka ‘nurture’ overcoming ‘nature’.

The Pale Tree was created (either by Mordremoth or a blighting tree from last time the dragons rose) to be a champion of Mordremoth. From the time she first sprouted she must have known about her intended purpose, instinctively or through some type of memory inheritance because we know she knew all about it by the time the sylvari were born and I cannot see any other way she could have found out.

But she spent over 100 years with Ventari (his Sanctuary was founded sometime between 1072, Proph, and 1078, EotN and he died in 1180) and had a further 122 years after that before the sylvari are born (and we don’t know how long other followers of Ventari continued to live in the Sanctuary, right next to the Tree, continuing to follow his teachings and influence what the Tree experienced). And during all of that time her master was asleep and inactive, unable to have much influence over her.

It’s possible that when we first see her in GW1, when she’s about 6 years old at most, she’s fully intending to create an army of minions for her master and help him conquer the world and destroy us all.

But over time she learns about the races of Tyria and Ventari’s teachings and comes to believe them instead of what she learned from her master, and that is what she passes on to her children instead of their original purpose. (We see hints of this during Seeds of Truth when Faolain complains that the Pale Tree wants all of her children to be good and nice ‘blossoms instead of weeds’ as she puts it. The Tree knows what the sylvari are supposed to be and is doing everything she can to ensure they adopt Ventari’s, and now her, way of thinking instead of Mordremoth’s.)

So the sylvari don’t consciously know anything of Mordremoth. Instead they know Ventari’s teachings and what life is like for the other races and that’s what determines their own behaviour. Most act like members of any other race – they form and join guilds, orders, companies etc. they travel and learn crafts, make or grow things to trade etc.

Some turn to evil and try to oppose their society, but even they don’t know about the dragon and aren’t serving him. At least 2 (Caithe and the player character) actually dream of killing the dragons and adopt it as their Wyld Hunt.)

And yet underneath it all, on a kind of instinctive level, that connection to Mordremoth is still there and once the dragon is awake and trying to exert his influence some are going to give in to it.

For a simplistic real life comparison look at domestic dogs. The same dog could be a well behaved, loving family pet if raised with close human contact and good training, or an aggressive, dangerous fighter if they’re taught to fear humans and attack other dogs. But leave them without human contact and both will revert back to their instincts – forming a pack, establishing a territory and hunting for food, even if they’ve never done any of that before. Other behaviours have to be taught, and if they are it might be all the dog ever does, but that instinctive knowledge is always there and they will act on it given a need.

Of course it’s a bit different for the sylvari because their previous life hasn’t gone away when Mordremoth awakens, but they also have a conscious presence inside their own minds telling them to revert back to their instincts instead of simply an absence of other good options.

How they respond to that varies between individuals of course – some might actually have been dissatisfied with their life and welcomed the chance to serve the dragon. For others it was absolutely out of the question. But even then it’s their other experiences coming into play that determines it.

As for the other elder dragons I imagine if they were the type to talk to each other there would be a lot of debate on this subject.

To some extent it’s the limitations of their powers – Mordremoth can’t make minions out of stone and larva like Primordius does because he doesn’t use that type of magic. But I think there might also be some different schools of thought or preferences between them.

Primordius and Zhaitan seem to prefer making minions out of inanimate material, rock and lava and dead bodies respectively, and as a result seem to have more control over them (we’ve never seen a risen or destroyer show any signs of anything except mindless obedience to their master). But the trade-off seems to be that their ability to think and act independently, when the dragon isn’t directly influencing them, is very limited.

Jormag and Kralkatorrik seem to prefer to corrupt already living beings. This might be because they lack the ability to create ‘life’ (or animate non-living materials at least) or it might be because they consider the end result more effective. Their minions show a greater degree of independent thought and action but can also turn against them. The obvious example of that is Glint, but there’s also numerous events and storylines where Sons of Svanir (who are in various stages of being corrupted into icebrood) change their mind and abandon Jormag.

And Mordremoth of course appears to have taken the approach of absorbing existing beings and using them as templates to grow his own minions from scratch, which results in more customised minions than Jormag and Kralk get which are also more capable of independent thought and action than destroyers or risen, but also have a greater capacity to betray him. To the point where some actually try to kill him.

We don’t know anything about the Deep Sea Dragons minions, except that if I remember correctly the karka aren’t dragon minions and whatever they are is bad enough that the karka fled the deep sea to get away from them and the quaggan won’t even talk about them. So we don’t know how they’re created or how they function.

Then why Kralkatorrik minion’s free ritual would work on Zhaitan’s Risen? They function quite differently. Corrupt Living creature VS Animate long dead chicken.

Danikat.8537:

As for the other elder dragons I imagine if they were the type to talk to each other there would be a lot of debate on this subject.

To some extent it’s the limitations of their powers – Mordremoth can’t make minions out of stone and larva like Primordius does because he doesn’t use that type of magic. But I think there might also be some different schools of thought or preferences between them.

Primordius and Zhaitan seem to prefer making minions out of inanimate material, rock and lava and dead bodies respectively, and as a result seem to have more control over them (we’ve never seen a risen or destroyer show any signs of anything except mindless obedience to their master). But the trade-off seems to be that their ability to think and act independently, when the dragon isn’t directly influencing them, is very limited.

Jormag and Kralkatorrik seem to prefer to corrupt already living beings. This might be because they lack the ability to create ‘life’ (or animate non-living materials at least) or it might be because they consider the end result more effective. Their minions show a greater degree of independent thought and action but can also turn against them. The obvious example of that is Glint, but there’s also numerous events and storylines where Sons of Svanir (who are in various stages of being corrupted into icebrood) change their mind and abandon Jormag.

And Mordremoth of course appears to have taken the approach of absorbing existing beings and using them as templates to grow his own minions from scratch, which results in more customised minions than Jormag and Kralk get which are also more capable of independent thought and action than destroyers or risen, but also have a greater capacity to betray him. To the point where some actually try to kill him.

We don’t know anything about the Deep Sea Dragons minions, except that if I remember correctly the karka aren’t dragon minions and whatever they are is bad enough that the karka fled the deep sea to get away from them and the quaggan won’t even talk about them. So we don’t know how they’re created or how they function.

How? Few Icebrood outside of the champions/SoS had showed much intelligence, many Risen were very cunning and pretty much kept their former intelligence, even after Zhaitan’s death.

Thermaltron.6829:

Moredremoth was planning for the next time he would awaken, so he ‘planted seeds’ (Pale Tree(s)) to spawn his minions for him. These would start spitting out Sylvari well before he would wake up so there’d be an army ready for him. This would have given him a leg up over a few other Dragons who have to corrupt something to get a minion (If Zhaitan didn’t have all those dead, he’d have been in an even tougher position)

Most probable, given that every Elder Dragon had left a champion around in some form or another.

Primordus left The Great Destroyer; Jormag left Drakkar; Zhaitan had the risen Giganticus Lupicus; Kralkatorrik had Glint.

Every one of these champions were meant to prepare for their master’s awakening when magic rose to a certain level in the world. This meant begin making minions as well as feeding their dragon magic so it can awaken faster. Both Primordus and Kralkatorrik were stalled due to the lost of their herald champion.

So Mordremoth wouldn’t have had a ‘leg up’ on the other dragons, in all honesty.

Thermaltron.6829:

Sylvari are adolescent Mordrem; mostly friendly (with exceptions), able to get along with the other races. This was planned so his army could spread passively through the world, mostly unchallenged.

Friendly, okay. Makes no sense for an Elder Dragon who wouldn’t even know if races replenished themselves to make minions that are friendly to insignificant insects (compared to itself – the Elder Dragons have god complexes, remember, which is reasonable given they pretty much are like gods).

Thermaltron.6829:

As such, he builds in a back door (Being the Dragon of Mind) so that he can still exert influence through their minds; though being immune to true corruption, this means he doesn’t have perfect control over them.

Dragon minions are innately mindless (except for the more powerful ones like lieutenants and champions) and without free will. Why would Mordremoth have minions created with free will?

Besides, such protection would be unnecessary – Elder Dragons have shown themselves to not want to corrupt another dragon’s minions.

Deleena.3406:

i think the pale tree did something to give them free will (somehow didnt give them mordy’s will/orders)

But who gave the Pale Tree free will?

Deleena.3406:

maybe the guards was supposed to plant them at some point? (although that would be a very silly plain for a elder dragon xD what if all the guards was killed :s)

The fact that Malyck’s Tree created sylvari and also came from that cave indicates that the whole cave’s seeds were given free will.

Which would mean that the guards likely had free will too. Unlike standard mordrem.

It’s never really said that Ronan had to sneak around the ‘plant monsters’ – just that they were there. Maybe they let him take a seed, and then planted the others, one of which becoming Malyck’s tree.

Squee.7829:

Maybe The Pale Tree was in charge of the whole “make mordrem minions in the form of Sylvari” department. And maybe it would have gone swimmingly if someone hadn’t stolen Mordremoth’s general from a cave! I’m only speculating, but it seems like Mordremoth put a little too much of his plan on his pale trees. They seem to be the biggest producers of his most sentient minions. The hounds and thrashers and terragriffs are neat and all, but pretty mindless and stupid. The good soldiers are apparently produced by specialized trees. And one of those trees was given free will.

Actually, it seems that except for the mordrem guard champions, the blighting trees don’t create any sentient minions.

The only sentient – or sapient – minions Mordremoth has been seen to have are the Mordrem Guard, who were originally sylvari born of the Pale Tree. The Blighting Trees might remake them as their consciousness is transferred to a new body (per the lore blog post – something that never comes up in-game but is meant to explain the Mordrem Guard Commanders’ returns), but they don’t create that sentience – merely channel it.

Ultimately, the Blighting Trees seem to be the source of all of Mordremoth’s minions – from teragriffs to hylek copies to thrashers to saurian copies to reborn mordrem guard.

So the only trees of Mordremoth’s that got shown to make sentient – and sapient at that – dragon minions are the two that create minions with free will: the Pale Tree and Malyck’s Tree. So this means they are unique, not standard, and not what Mordremoth intended.

So the age long question remains: why does the Pale Tree (and Malyck’s Tree) have free will?

Danikat.8537:

I think for the sylvari it’s a matter of upbringing and life experience overcoming basic instincts. Aka ‘nurture’ overcoming ‘nature’.

This counteracts EVERYTHING we know about dragon corruption however. Why?

Because dragon minions lack free will. They are simply incapable of denying their dragon’s will. Because their dragon’s will is their will, because they don’t have a will of their own.

Nurture doesn’t matter for jack squat if a person is literally incapable of making choices for themselves.

Danikat.8537:

And during all of that time her master was asleep and inactive, unable to have much influence over her.

Scarlet kind of disproves this, given that she was driven mad by Mordremoth’s thoughts.

Glint also disproves this, as she was able to sense Kralkatorrik’s state of being from across Tyria.

Jormag was in the far north, beyond the GW1 map, sleeping when Svanir was corrupted and still followed Jormag’s whispers.

Danikat.8537:

To some extent it’s the limitations of their powers – Mordremoth can’t make minions out of stone and larva like Primordius does because he doesn’t use that type of magic. But I think there might also be some different schools of thought or preferences between them.

-snip rest-

While I agree fully with the Elder Dragons having a preference for how to corrupt, I’m just going to note a few things:

• We have canon confirmation Primordus can and does corrupt living beings, though we don’t see this happening – directly – in-game… except for a possibility in the Volcanic Fractal. In the end, there’s a strong preference for creating mockeries of living beings, and just outright killing all living beings. Much like Mordremoth.
• Zhaitan corrupts living beings and plants – as well as the air, water, and ground – just as much as he corrupts corpses. But of what he corrupts, Zhaitan makes minions out of bodies – living or dead.
• Jormag corrupts corpses and the land too. Like Zhaitan, out of all it corrupts, Jormag makes minions out of bodies – be it living or dead. In Edge of Destiny, one icebrood is specifically called out (as the norn was met before being corrupted) with a caved in face – something no one can survive.
• Kralkatorrik is like Zhaitan and Jormag – seen corrupting water, air, land, and bodies, but makes minions primarily out of the last (bodies).

Regarding minion intelligence, the risen are actually the most sentient minions we’ve seen outside of the Mordrem Guard (which as we’ve covered are not common minions).

Glint is a very bad example of a “minion with independent though” – because she’s a dragon champion. Every dragon champion is capable of independent thought to a degree, but they still do not have free will. Furthermore, you use Glint as an example for Kralkatorrik and Jormag’s minions being capable of betraying their dragons – this is a faux pass. Glint could only break free of Kralkatorrik’s enslaving will because of the Forgotten ritual she underwent in Arah (see Arah explorable path 3).

And your comment about the Sons of Svanir is false – none of them are corrupted. Those you see with bodies of ice and act sapient are fullblown Icebrood who are also powerful dragon minions (lieutenants or champions), and like all other dragon champions are capable of independent thought. The Sons of Svanir who abandon Jormag – as few of a number that they are – are not corrupted at all, and at least one of them is fighting the imposing will of Jormag’s thoughts.

TL;DR

Branded and icebrood are no more intelligent than risen are. In fact, despite your claim, we see more intelligence among the risen – however, this might be simply due to having more examples. Mordrem and destroyers are actually the least intelligent – the exception being Mordrem Guard/slylvari, which as established are unique.

Danikat.8537:

We don’t know anything about the Deep Sea Dragons minions, except that if I remember correctly the karka aren’t dragon minions and whatever they are is bad enough that the karka fled the deep sea to get away from them and the quaggan won’t even talk about them. So we don’t know how they’re created or how they function.

We know that the DSD makes its minions out of water.

In other words, the Elder Dragons are split 1:2:3 in the following set up:

One dragon grows minions (Mordremoth).
Two dragons corrupt inanimate landscapes to make minions (Primordus + DSD).
Three dragons corrupt species (dead or living) to turn into minions (Kralkatorrik, Jormag, and Zhaitan).

Though one might group Mordremoth with Primordus and the DSD, especially if the DSD makes mockeries of species out of the corrupted water. If this is so, then it becomes a 3:3 split of Mordremoth/DSD/Primordus to Zhaitan/Kralkatorrik/Jormag, with the first set’s minions being copies and ultimately more mindless but also capable of being created infinitely, while the second group’s minions are 1:1 corruptions of their proverbial kill counts, but in turn are smarter.