Dragons + Abaddon Prophecy [spoilers]
abaddon was going to “return to our world” back when he was still alive, but imprisoned on the realm of torment. we made sure that it would never happened when we killed him and kormir became a god.
and the mention of varesh is a reference to how she enslaved centaurs for her benefit during nightfall. varesh is also dead by our hand. in fact, she died before abaddon.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
Technically speaking the prophecy did come to pass, as the prophecy was not about his return to Tyria, but just simply “his return” – and by bringing Nightfall about (his attempt to break free via merging Realm of Torment and Tyria) he fulfilled this. He is no longer forgotten, he became known to all, and he threatened the world. That was the prophecy. The prophecy was fulfilled, but Abaddon’s plan wasn’t. And technically, he did break free… right before dying.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
I think the page from the book was more about explaining how Scarlet was able to motivate her minions to participate in her scheme when there did not seem to be much in it for them – the excerpt just happened to come from “The 7 Habits of Highly Effective Homicidal Dictators or How to Bring About Nightfall and Return Abbadon to Tyria” by Varesh Ossa
The passage was them trying to make some kind of link in personality between Varesh Ossa and Scarlet in order to make Scarlet seem like a more compelling/cunning villain. It was just a super sad way to try and achieve that…
Technically speaking the prophecy did come to pass, as the prophecy was not about his return to Tyria, but just simply “his return” – and by bringing Nightfall about (his attempt to break free via merging Realm of Torment and Tyria) he fulfilled this. He is no longer forgotten, he became known to all, and he threatened the world. That was the prophecy. The prophecy was fulfilled, but Abaddon’s plan wasn’t. And technically, he did break free… right before dying.
Prophecies in Tyria, they’re like monkey’s paws they keep biting the prophecied ones in the proverbial kitten.
The passage was them trying to make some kind of link in personality between Varesh Ossa and Scarlet in order to make Scarlet seem like a more compelling/cunning villain. It was just a super sad way to try and achieve that…
so much this
Ley lines. The perfect solution to deadlines and writers block. Now in an easy open Can.
I think the page from the book was more about explaining how Scarlet was able to motivate her minions to participate in her scheme when there did not seem to be much in it for them – the excerpt just happened to come from “The 7 Habits of Highly Effective Homicidal Dictators or How to Bring About Nightfall and Return Abbadon to Tyria” by Varesh Ossa
Which is a huge and idiotic implication.
Varesh was NOT a “mua haaa haa villian”
Varesh did NOT have an “alliance” of “Minions” She paid off corsairs with hard gold, just as we did to escape Kourna post Gendarra. She had the Kournan military, who followed her orders because she was Warmarshal Ossa. She had Margonites and Demons provided by her God.
She was a religious fanatic. She was the legitimate ruler of Kourna, and an Ossa. She controlled the strongest military power in Elona. Legitimately. No “muaaa haaa haa” Mary Sue machinations. No reason to pen a book like that. None.
There is no indication, whatsoever, to remotely connect what Varesh did to Scarletts plot convenience “allies”. It is as big a plot hole as the one it is trying to fix.
I despise the attempt to paint her as some validation to Scarlett. The two are nothing alike, and tainting Varesh with poison Ivy is sad and un-needed.
Ley lines. The perfect solution to deadlines and writers block. Now in an easy open Can.
(edited by Teofa Tsavo.9863)
I think the page from the book was more about explaining how Scarlet was able to motivate her minions to participate in her scheme when there did not seem to be much in it for them – the excerpt just happened to come from “The 7 Habits of Highly Effective Homicidal Dictators or How to Bring About Nightfall and Return Abbadon to Tyria” by Varesh Ossa
Which is a huge and idiotic implication.
Varesh was NOT a “mua haaa haa villian”
Varesh did NOT have an “alliance” of “Minions” She paid off corsairs with hard gold, just as we did to escape Kourna post Gendarra. She had the Kournan military, who followed her orders because she was Warmarshal Ossa. She had Margonites and Demons provided by her God.
She was a religious fanatic. She was the legitimate ruler of Kourna, and an Ossa. She controlled the strongest military power in Elona. Legitimately. No “muaaa haaa haa” Mary Sue machinations. No reason to pen a book like that. None.
There is no indication, whatsoever, to remotely connect what Varesh did to Scarletts plot convenience “allies”. It is as big a plot hole as the one it is trying to fix.
I despise the attempt to paint her as some validation to Scarlett. The two are nothing alike, and tainting Varesh with poison Ivy is sad and un-needed.
actually, i’m pretty sure the levels of her fanaticism can be described as “muahaha evil”.
and there is indication. that book. new information =/= plothole. varesh tricked centaurs into slavery, scarlet tricked her alliances the same way.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
I think the page from the book was more about explaining how Scarlet was able to motivate her minions to participate in her scheme when there did not seem to be much in it for them – the excerpt just happened to come from “The 7 Habits of Highly Effective Homicidal Dictators or How to Bring About Nightfall and Return Abbadon to Tyria” by Varesh Ossa
Which is a huge and idiotic implication.
Varesh was NOT a “mua haaa haa villian”
Varesh did NOT have an “alliance” of “Minions” She paid off corsairs with hard gold, just as we did to escape Kourna post Gendarra. She had the Kournan military, who followed her orders because she was Warmarshal Ossa. She had Margonites and Demons provided by her God.
She was a religious fanatic. She was the legitimate ruler of Kourna, and an Ossa. She controlled the strongest military power in Elona. Legitimately. No “muaaa haaa haa” Mary Sue machinations. No reason to pen a book like that. None.
There is no indication, whatsoever, to remotely connect what Varesh did to Scarletts plot convenience “allies”. It is as big a plot hole as the one it is trying to fix.
I despise the attempt to paint her as some validation to Scarlett. The two are nothing alike, and tainting Varesh with poison Ivy is sad and un-needed.
actually, i’m pretty sure the levels of her fanaticism can be described as “muahaha evil”.
and there is indication. that book. new information =/= plothole. varesh tricked centaurs into slavery, scarlet tricked her alliances the same way.
No indication in Nightfall, or GW1, that indicates the Centaurs were “tricked” into an alliance that apparently never existed. No indication that Varesh needed, used or had any motivation for a Centaur Alliance. Captured Slaves are not “allies”.
Varesh was not Mary Sue Ossa. Rationalization of poor lore revisions does not validate them, particularly when based upon speculation with no proof.
And, at the end of the day, it still fails at the attempt to explainaway Scarletts ludicrous “alliances”.
And on that, I’m done commenting. There is a huge difference between writing a story and building one out of box of “story Legos”.
Ley lines. The perfect solution to deadlines and writers block. Now in an easy open Can.
(edited by Teofa Tsavo.9863)
Which is a huge and idiotic implication.
Varesh was NOT a “mua haaa haa villian”
Varesh did NOT have an “alliance” of “Minions” She paid off corsairs with hard gold, just as we did to escape Kourna post Gendarra. She had the Kournan military, who followed her orders because she was Warmarshal Ossa. She had Margonites and Demons provided by her God.
She was a religious fanatic. She was the legitimate ruler of Kourna, and an Ossa. She controlled the strongest military power in Elona. Legitimately. No “muaaa haaa haa” Mary Sue machinations. No reason to pen a book like that. None.
There is no indication, whatsoever, to remotely connect what Varesh did to Scarletts plot convenience “allies”. It is as big a plot hole as the one it is trying to fix.
I despise the attempt to paint her as some validation to Scarlett. The two are nothing alike, and tainting Varesh with poison Ivy is sad and un-needed.
[/quote]
The title of the book was my invention. Of course Varesh wouldn’t have written a self-help book…it is more likely that what we are reading came from a biography of Varesh Ossa probably written by some historian some time after Nightfall was aborted. It would make sense in such a book to explain her leadership qualities and abilities.
Nothing from the page indicates that Varesh was a 1970’s Bond villain. It shows that Varesh had significant influence as a leader. (Does it conveniently answer the players’ questions regarding Scarlet and her alliances? Yes. Dear god…move on already!) Her influence was such that she and her generals were able to convince lesser creatures (like the Centaurs, and the Hylek) to willingly work and provide for Kourna with little or nothing in return – the page implies (to my interpretation) that she made them slaves with their unwitting permission. It is not a reference to the human elements of her military (which did what good soldiers do) or the Corsairs (who did what respectable pirates would do).
Technically speaking the prophecy did come to pass, as the prophecy was not about his return to Tyria, but just simply “his return” – and by bringing Nightfall about (his attempt to break free via merging Realm of Torment and Tyria) he fulfilled this. He is no longer forgotten, he became known to all, and he threatened the world. That was the prophecy. The prophecy was fulfilled, but Abaddon’s plan wasn’t. And technically, he did break free… right before dying.
Konig do you have any idea where to find this:
In a now-old video interview with Jeff Grubb, he stated that Abaddon is dead and will not return (I think it was the PAX 3 years of GW panel, might be wrong – it’ll be hell to find it). — Konig/talk 04:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
I know you wrote that four years ago, but maybe since then you’ve found the source for that comment? Seeing all the Realm of Torment speculation simply because of similar pictures with circles on them and now out of the box thinking resulting in Abaddon theories simply because Varesh (a notable historical figure regardless of whether she’s related to the current plot) was mentioned a single time in a peice of paper – which I agree with FlamingFoxx – it’s more of the never-ending (but hopefully-ending-soon) attempt to fix Scarlet from beyond the grave.
It would be nice to have a source with one of the loremasters ruling out Abaddon as a major plot point moving forward, now that all these theories keep popping up. Admittedly that’s a four year old comment, so it would be an old source. Add to that the mess with Ree’s comments on Secondborn and Bobby’s recent comments on out-of-game sources, I guess it doesn’t really matter much anyway.
The more compelling argument would be that Abaddon would be a very heavy human plot going forward (human god, his powers are currently held by a now absent human god) and GW2 is supposed to move away from human-centric plots (that didn’t stop them from bringing Jennah back in as the only racial leader mentioned when leaders being targeted was a theme, or that the Zephyrites are increasingly human-centric in the last two patches).
BTW guys the Varesh “quote” that I think you are all talking about was listed to be a letter written by a Kournan soldier (iirc). It may be quoting Varesh, but it wasn’t written by her. The only motive of Varesh that matters there would be why she would supposedly say that, the soldier’s motive is why he would bother writing it. It doesn’t (imo) fit the personality of Varesh as I remember her (she never struck me as a great leader, she was the one who turned to dark promises of power and forever tarnished her family’s great name, it was loyalty to her once noble family that inspired soldiers like Morghan to follow her, not her political finesse – she actually treated her people as disposable not as unique people with their own strengths), nor the actions of the Kournan soldiers as we saw them, but there is a whole thread dedicated to that discussion.
(edited by Shiren.9532)
The passage was them trying to make some kind of link in personality between Varesh Ossa and Scarlet in order to make Scarlet seem like a more compelling/cunning villain. It was just a super sad way to try and achieve that…
You got them trying to link their personalities out of that? To me, it seemed to be more of them just linking their methodologies. That passage about Varesh showed Scarlet the upside of using other people to do her dirty work. So, Scarlet decided to give that a try, because it doesn’t really take a compelling/cunning person to pick up a good idea from someone else.
snip
i confess i didn’t read the whole post, but on the “abaddon is dead and definitely not coming back, seriously guys move on”, i think jeff grubb restated that on a recent Q&A that should be posted on some sticky somewhere…
Q: Are the Six [gods] really gone or not? Their power is still very much present. Players can call upon the gods’ power with prayers, NPC priests can summon Reapers of Grenth etc., and their statues are still stuffed with energy. So if they left, why are their power still here?
Jeff Grubb: The human gods still exist, and their power is still felt within Tyria. However, they have pulled back into the mists, leaving the humans to stand (or fall) on their own merits. There has been a tendency for the human gods to, um, meddle with their worshippers a bit much, and in the wake of the final battle of Abaddon, they have been trying to cut back. Also, the destruction of the big A and his replacement with Kormir in the Pantheon resolved one of their ties with physical contact with Tyria. So there are ties, but you just can’t ring them up to take on the Elder Dragons.
so not quite “never coming back”, but reinstating that he’s been “destroyed”, not really waiting around for a comeback.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
Ah alright, thanks for the clarification. I didn’t know so much about the human gods and the fall of Abaddon, so I didn’t know he’d been completely destroyed after being thrown into the Realm of Torment. Thanks!